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Old_Canuck
03-18-2004, 12:09 PM
While they were potentially explosive topics, I really enjoyed reading the discussions on "why Germany lost the war" etc. on this forum. Have been re-reading "The Luftwaffe War Diaries" by Cajus Bekker lately and while some of Bekker's statements have been called into question here, it was interesting to find a point of agreement between him and the R.A.F.
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Regarding the Luftwaffe's failure to exploit Britain's vulnerable take off and landing procedures with increased night intruder operations, Bekker writes:

"A study of the war-time German Luftwaffe includes the following paragraph: 'Stepping up its night offensive against Germany forced the R.A.F. to adopt a technically complicated take-off and landing system that was highly vulnerable to intruder operations. The German Luftwaffe's failure to exploit this opportunity must be reckoned as one of its biggest mistakes.'

The R.A.F. agrees. According to the official Air Ministry publication, 'The Rise and Fall of the German Air Force,' the fact that from 1941 till 1945 the R.A.F. was able to operate undisturbed from its home bases contributed decisively to Germany's final downfall" (pp 271-272).

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I think it's worth considering when historians from both sides of a conflict agree on a matter. Bekker indicates that the German high command considered night intruder operations a defensive tactic which did not fit into their offensive plans.

Just wondering what our in-house historians have to say about this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

Old_Canuck
03-18-2004, 12:09 PM
While they were potentially explosive topics, I really enjoyed reading the discussions on "why Germany lost the war" etc. on this forum. Have been re-reading "The Luftwaffe War Diaries" by Cajus Bekker lately and while some of Bekker's statements have been called into question here, it was interesting to find a point of agreement between him and the R.A.F.
============================================

Regarding the Luftwaffe's failure to exploit Britain's vulnerable take off and landing procedures with increased night intruder operations, Bekker writes:

"A study of the war-time German Luftwaffe includes the following paragraph: 'Stepping up its night offensive against Germany forced the R.A.F. to adopt a technically complicated take-off and landing system that was highly vulnerable to intruder operations. The German Luftwaffe's failure to exploit this opportunity must be reckoned as one of its biggest mistakes.'

The R.A.F. agrees. According to the official Air Ministry publication, 'The Rise and Fall of the German Air Force,' the fact that from 1941 till 1945 the R.A.F. was able to operate undisturbed from its home bases contributed decisively to Germany's final downfall" (pp 271-272).

============================================

I think it's worth considering when historians from both sides of a conflict agree on a matter. Bekker indicates that the German high command considered night intruder operations a defensive tactic which did not fit into their offensive plans.

Just wondering what our in-house historians have to say about this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

p1ngu666
03-18-2004, 12:15 PM
interestingly, the night intruder, loitering and vulching is what british nightfighters did i belive

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

heywooood
03-18-2004, 12:24 PM
I thought is was won/lost in the BoB.. Goering and his staff under-estimated the chain-home radar system, Air Marshal Dowdings command and control methods of vectoring squadrons that were airborne as soon as the Luft formations were detected and because Goering was not as close to his squadron commanders as he needed to be to understand their failures and remedy them. He lived in a train (Asia) in a tunnel near Calais during most of the duration of the Battle. Most of his pilots Galland et.al said that if they had handled the BOB differently , they would have likely won out.

horseback
03-18-2004, 01:13 PM
I got the impression that Goerring seemed to think intruder operations ineffective-maybe it had something to do with how difficult it would be to confirm kills?

There is also the question of how to equip your intruders. The RAF used Hurricanes, Blenheims, Beaufighters, and Mossies without radar. The Germans seemed to have been less profligate; I remember Do-217s being used, with a few Ju-88C types. It may be that the nightfighter needs to protect the civilian population (and where it could be seen by them) was valued over the more directly effective (but less measurable and observable) intruder operation.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944