PDA

View Full Version : The announced features of Pacific Fighters



michapma
08-13-2004, 01:49 AM
No, I'm not doing the announcing, I'm looking to make a list of them. I haven't been around this forum all too often since April, so I've missed a lot of rumors and announcements. I can tell, because everyone seems to be cooly aware of what has already been announced. I've excitedly combed through the development updates, and I'd like for us to make a more or less complete list of the features we know are in the works. (Let's not have a wish list here.) I'll start.

First, there is the great news that PF will be available as both an upgrade to FB and as a stand-alone product.

Maps
I have read of Midway, Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Palau, the Coral Sea and Wake Island from HoosBB at Quakecon. Nearmiss said he found we're getting 16 big maps, and also mentioned Singapore and Guadalcanal. That makes 9 of 16, 10 if it is correct that we will be getting a part of the Japanese homeland.

Aircraft
The F4U-1D Corsair, Seafire, SBD Dauntless (type?), F6F-5 Hellcat, F4F Wildcat, Ki-43 Oscar, B-29 (AI), Ki-46 Dinah (AI), D3A1 Val, Ki-61 Kai ko, A6M2-N, TBF-1C Avenger, PBY Catalina (AI, may become flyable), B5N Kate, H8K Emily, and G4M Betty have all made appearances on the update pages.

The Ki-84 1a, 1b and 1c; P-38 J and L; YP-80; A6M2 and A6M5 Zeros; B-25 (AI); B-17 (AI); several P-51s and P-47s, P-39s and P-40s are already in FB. Several models of aircraft already available do not exist in or are missing types appropriate to the Pacific Theater.

Ships and ground objects
Several carriers have been modeled, of which at least the Lexington and Illustrious have been named. I see a Japanese carrier too, the Akagi? Carrier take-off and landings are modeled. I believe the deck pitches and rolls, and we have a video of catching the hook on deck cables. The Akizuki destroyer and a cargo "Liberty Ship" have been featured on the development updates.

The developers have mentioned that a vast amount of boats and ground vehicles and objects are being made. The Type 95 Ha-Go and Type 97 Chi-Har tanks have been depicted.


So whaddya say, help a poor flight-sim bum out? What's missing?

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

michapma
08-13-2004, 01:49 AM
No, I'm not doing the announcing, I'm looking to make a list of them. I haven't been around this forum all too often since April, so I've missed a lot of rumors and announcements. I can tell, because everyone seems to be cooly aware of what has already been announced. I've excitedly combed through the development updates, and I'd like for us to make a more or less complete list of the features we know are in the works. (Let's not have a wish list here.) I'll start.

First, there is the great news that PF will be available as both an upgrade to FB and as a stand-alone product.

Maps
I have read of Midway, Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Palau, the Coral Sea and Wake Island from HoosBB at Quakecon. Nearmiss said he found we're getting 16 big maps, and also mentioned Singapore and Guadalcanal. That makes 9 of 16, 10 if it is correct that we will be getting a part of the Japanese homeland.

Aircraft
The F4U-1D Corsair, Seafire, SBD Dauntless (type?), F6F-5 Hellcat, F4F Wildcat, Ki-43 Oscar, B-29 (AI), Ki-46 Dinah (AI), D3A1 Val, Ki-61 Kai ko, A6M2-N, TBF-1C Avenger, PBY Catalina (AI, may become flyable), B5N Kate, H8K Emily, and G4M Betty have all made appearances on the update pages.

The Ki-84 1a, 1b and 1c; P-38 J and L; YP-80; A6M2 and A6M5 Zeros; B-25 (AI); B-17 (AI); several P-51s and P-47s, P-39s and P-40s are already in FB. Several models of aircraft already available do not exist in or are missing types appropriate to the Pacific Theater.

Ships and ground objects
Several carriers have been modeled, of which at least the Lexington and Illustrious have been named. I see a Japanese carrier too, the Akagi? Carrier take-off and landings are modeled. I believe the deck pitches and rolls, and we have a video of catching the hook on deck cables. The Akizuki destroyer and a cargo "Liberty Ship" have been featured on the development updates.

The developers have mentioned that a vast amount of boats and ground vehicles and objects are being made. The Type 95 Ha-Go and Type 97 Chi-Har tanks have been depicted.


So whaddya say, help a poor flight-sim bum out? What's missing?

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

VVS-Manuc
08-13-2004, 02:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
No, I'm not doing the announcing, I'm looking to make a list of them. I haven't been around this forum all too often since April, so I've missed a lot of rumors and announcements. I can tell, because everyone seems to be cooly aware of what has already been announced. I've excitedly combed through the development updates, and I'd like for us to make a more or less complete list of the features we _know_ are in the works. (Let's not have a wish list here.) I'll start.

First, there is the great news that PF will be available as both an upgrade to FB and as a stand-alone product.

_Maps_
I have read of Midway, Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Palau, the Coral Sea and Wake Island from HoosBB at Quakecon. Nearmiss said he found we're getting 16 big maps, and also mentioned Singapore and Guadalcanal. That makes 9 of 16, 10 if it is correct that we will be getting a part of the Japanese homeland.

_Aircraft_
The F4U-1D Corsair, Seafire, SBD Dauntless (type?), F6F-5 Hellcat, F4F Wildcat, Ki-43 Oscar, B-29 (AI), Ki-46 Dinah (AI), D3A1 Val, Ki-61 Kai ko, A6M2-N, TBF-1C Avenger, PBY Catalina (AI, may become flyable), B5N Kate, H8K Emily, and G4M Betty have all made appearances on the update pages.

The Ki-84 1a, 1b and 1c; P-38 J and L; YP-80; A6M2 and A6M5 Zeros; B-25 (AI); B-17 (AI); several P-51s and P-47s, P-39s and P-40s are already in FB. Several models of aircraft already available do not exist in or are missing types appropriate to the Pacific Theater.

_Ships and ground objects_
Several carriers have been modeled, of which at least the Lexington and Illustrious have been named. I see a Japanese carrier too, the Akagi? Carrier take-off and landings are modeled. I believe the deck pitches and rolls, and we have a video of catching the hook on deck cables. The Akizuki destroyer and a cargo "Liberty Ship" have been featured on the development updates.

The developers have mentioned that a vast amount of boats and ground vehicles and objects are being made. The Type 95 Ha-Go and Type 97 Chi-Har tanks have been depicted.


So whaddya say, help a poor flight-sim bum out? What's missing?

http://giap.webhop.info

_http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/_ | http://www.forgottenskies.com/
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. _- Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A realistic FM and DM is missing. Also the so called "complex" engine mangament is far from beeing complex

LEXX_Luthor
08-13-2004, 04:08 AM
Manuc:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Involve Oleg Maddox and KOE will turn into a WW1 arcade airshooter like FB/AEP is now

KOE board
~ http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=100;t=000168
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fortunately, missing from here is this lol " Manuc" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
08-13-2004, 04:20 AM
Manuc, if you don't like it, don't fly it, simple.

But Chap, good list. Also there was mention of japanese dummy aircraft objects in the FMB from Quakecon too. I can't really think of anything other than what has been stated here.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Executive Officer, 69th GIAP
Za Rodinu!
Petition to stop the M3 motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley in Co. Meath, Ireland (http://www.petitiononline.com/hilltara/petition.html)

ploughman
08-13-2004, 07:30 AM
Aircraft revetments have been mentioned, as well as infantry mortar teams to shoot at. One image of an American aircraft flying low also had an amphibious tractor, crocodile or buffalo sort of thing, in the shot.

michapma
08-13-2004, 08:15 AM
Then I didn't miss much in the way of board announcements after all? Does that mean that all of our solid information has come from the development updates and a couple of show reports? Just asking.

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

BoneRattler
08-13-2004, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
we have a video of catching the hook on deck cables.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If anyone knows where to find that movie, throw me a link please http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I did some searching on this board but all I got was a 404 on a page listing the E3 presentation movie :/

Tooz_69GIAP
08-13-2004, 01:00 PM
Well, that is pretty much all the solid infor we have. As usual, the entire board is rife with rumour mongering, and specualtion, and debate, and all that stuff. The actual info of what is gonna be in is not being let out at a terribly regular pace.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Executive Officer, 69th GIAP
Za Rodinu!
Petition to stop the M3 motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley in Co. Meath, Ireland (http://www.petitiononline.com/hilltara/petition.html)

Tooz_69GIAP
08-13-2004, 01:05 PM
btw, here's a link for the E3 PF video (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/index.php?Fichier=1687)

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Executive Officer, 69th GIAP
Za Rodinu!
Petition to stop the M3 motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley in Co. Meath, Ireland (http://www.petitiononline.com/hilltara/petition.html)

P-DEX
08-13-2004, 01:12 PM
What's missing? I'll tell you what's missing. The game isn't on my hard drive yet. And that, my friend, is unaccaptable. In fact it blows chunks. So who's gonna help THIS sim-head patootie out, eh?!?

Baco-ECV56
08-13-2004, 01:13 PM
I belive all the US ground units will be ported to PF but that is just speculation...

Tater-SW-
08-13-2004, 01:19 PM
That's a safe bet. Trains, etc as well I would think along with tents, camo nets, etc.

tater

Snootles
08-13-2004, 01:21 PM
I've done some rooting around on the German forum and here's what I know for absolute certain about flyables, not including what's already in FB:

A-20C Havoc
A-20G Havoc
A6M2-N
A6M3
Beaufighter Mk. 21
D3A1
FM-2 Wildcat
F2A-1 Buffalo
F2A-2 Buffalo
F2A-3 Buffalo
F4F-3 Wildcat
F4F-4 Wildcat
F4U-1A Corsair
F4U-1C Corsair
F4U-1D Corsair -probably later vars (F4U-4)
F6F-3 Hellcat
F6F-5 Hellcat
G4M1
Ki-43-I Hayabusa -probably multiple vars
Ki-61 Hien -most certainly multiple vars
N1K1-J Shiden - most certainly also N1K2-J
P-39D Airacobra
P-40B Tomahawk
P-40C Tomahawk
P-400 Airacobra
PBJ-1C Mitchell
PBJ-1G Mitchell
PBJ-1H Mitchell
PBJ-1H Mitchell -which of course means equivalent USAAF versions
SBD Dauntless -multiple vars?
Seafire Mk. III
Spitfire Mk. VIII

*SPECULATION MODE ON*
B-24 Liberator/PB4Y Privateer
CAC Boomerang
J2M Raiden
Ki-44 Shoki
Ki-45 Toryu
P-47N Thunderbolt

Baco-ECV56
08-13-2004, 01:38 PM
Jeez, Is Grumman a sponsor for PF? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

IV_JG51_Razor
08-13-2004, 03:13 PM
Great list going here Chap! I'm really curious about the carrier deck environment. By that, I mean the arresting gear and barriers. The few shots we've seen of the Corsair landing on the Lex, show the arresting gear payed out WAY too far, and we've yet to see a barrier deployed. Mind you, I'm not complaining, just hoping that they are going to really do it right. We also haven't seen an LSO's wind break either. The LSO himself would just be too cool, but if he's going to be left out of the game, I hope they at least put his wind break in. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Razor
IV/JG51 11/12 Staffelkapitan
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)
Forgotten Skies Online War
http://www.forgottenskies.com/ForgottenWars/default.aspx
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

Tater-SW-
08-13-2004, 04:53 PM
There are only 2 Grumman aircraft in that list, 3 if we get a flyable TBF. That's 4-5 grumman's with variants (not counting Eastern built FM-2 or TBM variants). That's not as many as Mitsubishi will have.

tater

RAAFVirtSqn
08-13-2004, 04:55 PM
So where is the PBY5 and PBY5A and at least one or two airfields based at the top of Australia.

Where are at least a couple of maps for New Guinea - must have Port Moresby - Nazdab - Buna, Milne Bay - Rabaul how can you have a Pacific Fighters without Rabual???

Please dont leave us Aussies out fo the picture - a large amount of customers for UBISoft and Pacific Fighters.

Our voice will be heard at the upcoming IL2 Lock on and Pacific Fighters at Australian sim show.

So please prove you are our friends "down under" at the Australian Flight SIm Expo 2004 and let us know, your customers and fans, these planes and maps will be included in PF.

http://ozfs-expo.com Australian Flight Simulation Expo 2004

Regards
_RAAF_Schuftie

Baco-ECV56
08-13-2004, 05:01 PM
Please don‚¬īt get me wrong I am not complaining, It was just a bad joke. I would buy PF if it onlly was a Grumman simulator http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Tater-SW-
08-13-2004, 05:04 PM
So would I &lt;G&gt;.

tater

Tater-SW-
08-13-2004, 05:11 PM
BTW, I totally agree about New Guinea. New Guinea is probably the coolest part of the air war in the PTO, closely followed by (or tied with) Guadalcanal. Unlike the Slot, New Guinea, while huge, has plenty of opportunities for close airfields. The dense jungle, and tough fighting meant many times airfields were fairly close. It's got everything, hell, if you could only have ONE map for PF, it should without a question be part of New Guinea.

1. Close fields in some areas.

2. Small numbers of aircraft early on in RL (makes for historical matchups just within the game)

3. Plenty of airdrome denial missions (parafrags, woot!)

4. Loads of strafer/skip bomber targets.

5. Land battles to support.

6. Plenty of ocean for ships/CV groups

tater

Obi_Kwiet
08-13-2004, 10:21 PM
We realy need good mountians.

BoneRattler
08-14-2004, 12:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
btw, http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/index.php?Fichier=1687
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Woah, this **** is gonna be the bomb! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

michapma
08-14-2004, 02:34 AM
Nice work, Snootles, thanks very much! And all flyables? Good news, especially about the early-war birds. With the B and C types of P-40 some Flying Tiger fans will be happy. The P-400 Airacobra! And the A-20 flyable?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Ich muss meine deutsche Brillen h√¬§ufiger tragen. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Nice wish list there, everybody. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But as long as we're wishing, where's the B-26...

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

TheGozr
08-14-2004, 03:02 AM
SHip will shoot like in FB that mean we will have to make just one ship since more than that would be sooo badd for the fps and nearly impossible to make an armada..

Am i wrong?

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

WereSnowleopard
08-14-2004, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
Nice work, Snootles, thanks very much! And all flyables? Good news, especially about the early-war birds. With the B and C types of P-40 some Flying Tiger fans will be happy. The P-400 Airacobra! And the A-20 flyable?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Ich muss meine deutsche Brillen h√¬§ufiger tragen. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Nice _wish list_ there, everybody. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But as long as we're wishing, where's the B-26...

http://giap.webhop.info

_http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/_ | http://www.forgottenskies.com/
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. _- Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was expecting flyable A-20 at Quakecon...but not yet. Maybe it is not ready yet as I only saw is Demo PF now. Also candy on A20 in Demo PF is changeable nose art as only one plane do that there! I may go quakecon again to see if I can find Luither there.

Regards
Snowleopard

[This message was edited by WereSnowleopard on Sat August 14 2004 at 07:53 PM.]

Snootles
08-14-2004, 01:45 PM
My wishlist of flyables (don't know how many of these will be flyable in final version):

A-26 Invader
B-17 Flying Fortress
B-24 Liberator
B-26 Marauder
B-29 Superfortress
B5M "Mabel/Kate 61"
B5N "Kate"
B6N Tenzan "Jill"
B7A Ryusei "Grace"
D4Y Suisei "Judy"
E7K "Alf"
E13A "Jake"
F1M "Pete"
G3M "Nell"
H6K "Mavis"
H8K "Emily"
J1N Gekko "Irving"
J2M Raiden "Jack"
Ki-21 "Sally"
Ki-27 "Nate"
Ki-30 "Ann"
Ki-36 "Ida"
Ki-44 Shoki "Tojo"
Ki-45 Toryu "Nick"
Ki-48 "Lily"
Ki-49 Donyru "Helen"
Ki-51 "Sonia"
Ki-67 Hiryu "Peggy"
Ki-100
OS2U Kingfisher
P-61 Black Widow
P1Y Ginga "Francis"
PB2Y Coronado
PB4Y-2 Privateer
PBM Mariner
PBY Catalina
PV Ventura
SB2C Helldiver
SB2U Vindicator
SC Seahawk
SOC Seagull
TBD Devastator
TBF Avenger

Yeah, that's a tall order. Hey, I can dream right? There are some other aircraft out there that served in the PTO that were pretty bad (like the SO3C) that wouldn't be worth flying, plus some older craft that barely were operational at the beginning of the war. I did compile an even more detailed list including those types. Also, I am not very knowledgeable about the craft of the Commonwealth so cannot really ask for specific planes. Though I do want some.

Pop312
08-14-2004, 05:48 PM
I've heard nothing of the Curtiss SB2C which was the Navy's carrier based dive bomber from the summer of '43 to the end of the war. It was known as the "Big Tailed Beast" and "Son of a B***h 2nd Class" (SB2C) but the Navy called it a "Helldiver". It replaced the SBD on all carrier. Did I miss something?

RAAFVirtSqn
08-15-2004, 12:19 AM
Totally support your post Tater

Snootles
08-15-2004, 01:32 AM
I'm a big fan of the Helldiver; if it's not a flyable there's some work to be done...

"You're not a god, you're a birthday cake!"

WereSnowleopard
08-15-2004, 06:43 AM
To be realistic in historic Pacific war, every carrier mandatory carry SB2C after late 43 as replace all Dauntless. I bet that will be challenge fly as quota: *
"* "poor handling"
* "inadequate stability"
* "unacceptable stall characteristics"
* "severe buffeting in dives"
* "sluggish ailerons"
* "violent changes in trim"
* "required strong forces on the stick""
from SB2C Helldiver Units of World War 2, by Barrett Tillman as "Tough to fly, poorly designed, and delivered too slowly, the Curtiss SB2C comes somewhere near the top of most lists of "Worst Aircraft of World War Two." Of course, that judgement is no reflection on the crews who had to fly "The Beast," who were as brave, skilled, and resourceful as any other pilots - perhaps more so! "


I hope Oleg don't skip that one as it is so un-Cadillac-like US plane for hardcore US plane fan to fly it as challenge. I will look foward to fly it.

Regards
Snowleopard

VW-IceFire
08-15-2004, 07:41 AM
I read that the Helldivers problems were worked out and by 1944 they were doing just fine. Its been mentioned that its reputation was established early and never shook off despite improvements.

I want to fly it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I doubt the P-47N will be flyable. A HDD accident apparently destroyed the cockpit.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

michapma
08-15-2004, 08:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snootles:
My wishlist of flyables (don't know how many of these will be flyable in final version):

A-26 Invader
B-17 Flying Fortress
B-24 Liberator
B-26 Marauder
B-29 Superfortress
.......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



No mention of the Stinson L-5 Sentinel, I knew there was something funny about this guy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc