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dimbismp
11-06-2015, 03:11 PM
ACU vs ACS

http://i.imgur.com/8H3YqZr.jpg?1

This thread might be pointless,as most people seem to prefer ACS,but here we go:

I.NARRATIVE

A)Plot http://i.imgur.com/ySyif9A.jpg?1
I think that in ACU,the story had greater ambition,but the execution was terrible(see more here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1004093-Was-ACU-s-story-the-worst-story-of-the-franchise-DEBATE(HEAVY-SPOILERS)-No-rant).On the other hand,ACS had a much simpler story,which was executed well.So,this point goes to ACS.
ACS 1-0 ACU

B)Protagonist(s)
http://i.imgur.com/I3afKwQ.jpg?1
I kinda liked Arno,but the plot didn't help him progress as a character.The twins made a dynamic duo,although i wish there was more conflict between them.Another point to ACS.
ACS 2-0 ACU

C)Characters
1.Allies
http://i.imgur.com/csfmwPH.jpg?1
This is a tough choice.On the one hand,we have the believable Napoleon,De Sade etc,who were not developed well,and on the other hand the caricatures of D.ickens,Darwin,Bell etc,who were developed quite decently.I'll go with ACU.
ACS 2-1 ACU

2.Antagonists
http://i.imgur.com/ovm8Wg1.jpg?1
Here it is more clear.Neither of the templar groups were particularly great,but ACS had a few interesting individuals,like Starrick(ofc),Roth and Thorne.
ACS 3-1 ACU

D)MD
http://i.imgur.com/7B2PArU.jpg?1
Well,in ACU,the MD is by far the worst in the series.ACS improved on ACU,so that's something.
ACS 4-1 ACU


II.GAMEPLAY

A)Combat
http://i.imgur.com/oWjaRgo.jpg?1
I have to say i liked both types of combat equally:the fast-paced,but easier,combat of ACS and the slow-paced,but kinda hard,combat of ACU.Point goes to ACU,as i feel that if combat is too easy,there is no reason for stealth.
ACS 4-2 ACU

B)Parkour
http://i.imgur.com/uBY2ggE.jpg?1
Well,ACS slightly improved on the parkour IMO.The parkour down mechanic is more solid and there are a few more animations.Plus,there is also the rope launcher.
ACS 5-2 ACU

C)Stealth
http://i.imgur.com/BE5oonq.jpg?1
I believe that even though ACS made the stealth mechanics more solid,ACU still wins this category.Stealth is encouraged more in ACU,there are better stealth missions and finally,the main assassinations are also slightly better.
ACS 5-3 ACU

D)Customisation and skills
http://i.imgur.com/r68xR1y.jpg?1
ACU hands down(although the customisation options were far from perfect)
ACS 5-4 ACU

E)Other
http://i.imgur.com/BRQyqJi.jpg?1
In this category,we examine some unique gameplay mechanics that appear only in the specific game.ACU had coop,while ACS had carriage and train mechanic+the rooks.I believe that coop was a good idea,but it was executed badly.If you don't have specific friends to play with,you often end up with people who ruin the experiece.However,the missions themselves were mostly great.On the other hand,ACS had the Rooks(which were basically the Brotherhood apprentices reskinned.I also didn't use them at all,and found no reason why they are in the game).carriage riding(which was ok) and the trains&boats,which were fantastic.In conclusion,i believe that this point goes to ACS.
ACS 6-4 ACU


III.MISCELLANEOUS

A)Setting
http://i.imgur.com/QMUjMRJ.jpg?1
London was great,especially at night,but i feel that Paris is the most beautiful and detailed AC city ever.
ACS 6-5 ACU

B)Side missions
http://i.imgur.com/nE4YOQu.jpg?1
ACU had some decent side missions(the murder mysteries and some of the paris stories),but also many boring ones.On the other hand,the side missions revolving around the historical figures in ACS were mostly interesting.Plus: dreadful crimes>murder mysteries
ACS 7-5 ACU

C)Sound and music
Both games had a nice soundtrack,but i feel that ACS wins,as it features ambient music.
ACS 8-5 ACU

D)Graphics
IMO ACU had better graphics
ACS 8-6 ACU

Final score:ACS 8-6 ACU

VestigialLlama4
11-06-2015, 03:34 PM
ACU vs ACS

http://i.imgur.com/8H3YqZr.jpg?1



Even Syndicate's Title Logo and Design is better. It has an actual Industrial Revolution theme, is a shout out to Thief: The Dark Project's title page and looks good, whereas Unity's title screen is just stupid looking.

Anyway, between Syndicate and Unity, I'd say the difference is between an unpretentious B-Movie and pretentious Oscar-crap that is deluded about its actual qualities. Syndicate is Guy Ritchie/Punk Rock Album Cover/Steampunk London and doesn't pretend otherwise, Unity tries to play like Scaramouche/Scarlet Pimpernel and ends up being 10 times more dated in nearly every single facet that counts.

I will say that none of Syndicate's characters are as complex or interesting as Pierre Bellec (the best character of Unity who should have been the true protagonist of the game), and that Napoleon is a more fully realized historical figure than anyone in Syndicate, and that Elise de la Serre is maybe a more interesting character than Evie Frye. But in other respects Syndicate is much better. The historical context isn't as genuinely offensive and unwatchable as Unity, and the historical figures while placed on a pedestal like that of the American Revolutionaries in AC3 (i.e. treated with too much reverence and respect) are more convincing and likable than what we see in Unity. We have a Karl Marx who is maybe a little too cuddly but at least his main ideas aren't dialled down entirely unlike De Sade who was bowdlerized and sterilized, and made kid-friendly, i.e. destroying any reason why anyone is interested in a bisexual former rapist turned philosopher and proto-communist. But then UNITY is just THAT stupid a game. Henry Green is a more likable fellow Assassin than Mirabeau and those pack of useless fools that comprise the Parisian Assassins.

However, the best part is that the villains. Syndicate is the only game that really puts across the Templars well, and in a manner that makes them worthy of respect and fear. Germain the fat silversmith froths on the mouth about Jacques de Molay and even being a Sage doesn't make him interest, but Starrick despite looking like a villain, talking like a villain and being a villain eloquently and cogently expresses his viewpoint and commands our attention. The other Templars do that as well. It's one thing to talk about how the Templars control from the shadows and another to show it as we see in Syndicate, where taking out Templars causes problems.

Plotwise, I think Syndicate had a better and more satisfying plot. It focused on a smaller scale of events and covered the tensions of that time well. Whereas Unity fudged and deliberately confused gamers about the timeline and events because they clearly had no interest in it and wanted to confuse gamers.

dimbismp
11-06-2015, 04:23 PM
Even Syndicate's Title Logo and Design is better. It has an actual Industrial Revolution theme, is a shout out to Thief: The Dark Project's title page and looks good, whereas Unity's title screen is just stupid looking.

Anyway, between Syndicate and Unity, I'd say the difference is between an unpretentious B-Movie and pretentious Oscar-crap that is deluded about its actual qualities. Syndicate is Guy Ritchie/Punk Rock Album Cover/Steampunk London and doesn't pretend otherwise, Unity tries to play like Scaramouche/Scarlet Pimpernel and ends up being 10 times more dated in nearly every single facet that counts.

I will say that none of Syndicate's characters are as complex or interesting as Pierre Bellec (the best character of Unity who should have been the true protagonist of the game), and that Napoleon is a more fully realized historical figure than anyone in Syndicate, and that Elise de la Serre is maybe a more interesting character than Evie Frye. But in other respects Syndicate is much better. The historical context isn't as genuinely offensive and unwatchable as Unity, and the historical figures while placed on a pedestal like that of the American Revolutionaries in AC3 (i.e. treated with too much reverence and respect) are more convincing and likable than what we see in Unity. We have a Karl Marx who is maybe a little too cuddly but at least his main ideas aren't dialled down entirely unlike De Sade who was bowdlerized and sterilized, and made kid-friendly, i.e. destroying any reason why anyone is interested in a bisexual former rapist turned philosopher and proto-communist. But then UNITY is just THAT stupid a game. Henry Green is a more likable fellow Assassin than Mirabeau and those pack of useless fools that comprise the Parisian Assassins.

However, the best part is that the villains. Syndicate is the only game that really puts across the Templars well, and in a manner that makes them worthy of respect and fear. Germain the fat silversmith froths on the mouth about Jacques de Molay and even being a Sage doesn't make him interest, but Starrick despite looking like a villain, talking like a villain and being a villain eloquently and cogently expresses his viewpoint and commands our attention. The other Templars do that as well. It's one thing to talk about how the Templars control from the shadows and another to show it as we see in Syndicate, where taking out Templars causes problems.

Plotwise, I think Syndicate had a better and more satisfying plot. It focused on a smaller scale of events and covered the tensions of that time well. Whereas Unity fudged and deliberately confused gamers about the timeline and events because they clearly had no interest in it and wanted to confuse gamers.

Good points :)

dimbismp
11-06-2015, 05:21 PM
No Unity lovers so far :P

cawatrooper9
11-06-2015, 05:26 PM
No Unity lovers so far :P
I'm not surprised. The mass consensus is that Syndicate is by far the superior game... though I'm sure Unity will get a few votes eventually.

I'm really interested in seeing how Syndicate hold up over time. It's looked upon pretty positively now- I wonder if we'll feel the same way in a few years' time.

dimbismp
11-06-2015, 05:48 PM
I'm not surprised. The mass consensus is that Syndicate is by far the superior game... though I'm sure Unity will get a few votes eventually.
I think that the difference between the games is not THAT huge

VestigialLlama4
11-06-2015, 05:57 PM
I'm not surprised. The mass consensus is that Syndicate is by far the superior game... though I'm sure Unity will get a few votes eventually.

I'm really interested in seeing how Syndicate hold up over time. It's looked upon pretty positively now- I wonder if we'll feel the same way in a few years' time.

In a few years time it might be unlikely that AC will be remembered by any but the most hardline fans. Games change so quickly you know. There are a number of games I remember playing as a kid that I liked that are totally forgotten now. So as for whether Syndicate or Unity will be remembered, who knows?

I think that the games that are likely to be remembered are AC1, AC2 and Black Flag and even then it's not certain. Black Flag I think will be remembered because it has the perfect combination of elements and it set the bar high for an open-world pirate game. AC1 and AC2 likewise I think for bringing historical open worlds to life and creating the original gameplay and open world design. As for the others...

-- Brotherhood and Revelations will be seen as addons and sequels to AC2 but not unique in and of itself. Revelations I hope might become a cult title, but again that's me.
-- AC3 will be a cult title most likely, until someone decides to do another game set during the American Revolution or another game with a Native American hero, and provided it has good good writing and good levels than AC3 will lose its claim to uniqueness and charm for everyone but the people who played it. Like the game is highly popular among American history afficonados rather than common gamers and it did succeed in reaching a non-gaming audience. It's also the best representation of 18th Century battlefield and combat in games so that's there too.
-- Unity well...Unity was hardly even remembered when it came out, nobody cared about the story or characters. You had Paris in Next-Gen yes, but hardly well realized. So as to whether it lasts, I am doubtful but I don't want my subjective feelings for the game to make stupid predictions.
-- Syndicate will have a tougher go, because for one thing the setting is not unique. Victorian London and that whole culture has been done in many games and TV shows (bloodborne, Dishonored, Order 1886, Guy Ritchie movies, Sweeney Todd, D-ckens adaptations) and it's popular enough that Syndicate won't scare someone else from staying away from that territory for a while (like say, AC2 and Black Flag scares others away from the Renaissance and Pirate Era).

In terms of gameplay. Social stealth and parkour can certainly be improved upon and once another game does that it might bring the curtain of oblivion on AC.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-06-2015, 07:26 PM
I would argue that Syndicate's setting is unique, in that it's the first game to portray Victorian London in a realistic way. No other game that I can think of has done that - they've all given us a fantasy or steampunk version of London. As for movies, I think it's unfair to say that the setting has been done in many TV shows and movies. After all, you can say that about the Crusades (Robin Hood, Kingdom of Heaven, Ivanhoe), Renaissance Italy (The Borgias, Da Vinci's Demons) and the Golden Age of Piracy (Pirates of the Caribbean, Cutthroat Island, Pirates, Treasure Island) too.

Having said that, I think I'm a little more apt to think that Assassin's Creed will be even less remembered. I suspect the series as a whole will be more memorable in 20 years than any of its parts. If any single games are remembered, I suspect it will be only AC2 and maybe Black Flag.

VestigialLlama4
11-06-2015, 07:44 PM
I would argue that Syndicate's setting is unique, in that it's the first game to portray Victorian London in a realistic way. No other game that I can think of has done that - they've all given us a fantasy or steampunk version of London.

Syndicate has a grappling hook and a train as headquarters, what can be more Steampunk than that? About the only other thing it does have is that it acknowledges the existence of Karl Marx (who is almost never depicted or portrayed in movies and TV for rather obvious reasons).


As for movies, I think it's unfair to say that the setting has been done in many TV shows and movies. After all, you can say that about the Crusades (Robin Hood, Kingdom of Heaven, Ivanhoe), Renaissance Italy (The Borgias, Da Vinci's Demons) and the Golden Age of Piracy (Pirates of the Caribbean, Cutthroat Island, Pirates, Treasure Island) too.

Well AC1 shows the Crusades from an Arab point of view which makes it unique among English language media. The Renaissance itself hardly ever gets shown in movies (the last big budget movie set there is The Agony and the Ecstasy) and those trashy TV Shows are not good examples. As for Black Flag it's the most realistic look at that era and setting, the first pirate story to tackle slavery and the pirate republic which that other stuff doesn't do.


Having said that, I think I'm a little more apt to think that Assassin's Creed will be even less remembered. I suspect the series as a whole will be more memorable in 20 years than any of its parts. If any single games are remembered, I suspect it will be only AC2 and maybe Black Flag.

If it's lucky it might have the same status in games that Flashman or Dumas does in literature. It will be fondly remembered for introducing young people to history and places. Hollywood used to do that with those big epic movies of the 50s and 60s but then they stopped making it. And AC essentially does that in games these days.

The trouble is of course preservation. Migrating and keeping the AC games on the consoles or platforms and systems of the future. That's a bigger problem in games than anything. For companies flagship titles will carry over most of the time (but not always since Sands of Time was never ported on 7th Consoles) and among AC, it will be hard for them to choose one title only.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-06-2015, 07:57 PM
The grappling hook and train aren't really part of the setting, and a train alone is not steampunk (in terms of steampunk meaning Victorian Science Fiction) anymore than the Victorian city itself is. Other than that, I agree with you. It's just that I don't think the Arab perspective on the Crusades is enough to keep AC1 from fading into oblivion faster than AC2 or Black Flag.

As for migration, that depends on a number of factors. Since you bring up The Sands of Time, one game that has stood the test of time is Jordan Mechner's The Last Express, which is still being played today (18 years after its release) by its devoted fans.

cawatrooper9
11-06-2015, 08:06 PM
The grappling hook and train aren't really part of the setting, and a train alone is not steampunk anymore than the Victorian city itself is. Other than that, I agree with you. It's just that I don't think the Arab perspective on the Crusades is enough to keep AC1 from fading into oblivion faster than AC2 or Black Flag.



Agreed. I know that VestigialLlama4 is a very socially progressive person, as am I, so I get why he appreciates the unique perspective of AC1- it's just not something that I think the majority of people all really care about, unfortunately. If AC1 is remembered, it'll be simply because it was the first game in the series (and for that, it truly does deserve some respect).

Pr0metheus 1962
11-06-2015, 08:27 PM
Don't get me wrong: I loved AC1 and still love it. It's just that I think it doesn't have the resonance among fans of the series that it should have. I think a lot of that is because it was basically treated a lot like Until Dawn when it was first released (ignored or dismissed by marketing and reviewers). It never got the marketing exposure it deserved and lot of the hack reviewers smelled blood and panned it, calling it repetitive (most likely because hack reviewers speed through games - to those folks, atmosphere is meaningless. Anyway, the result was that it never got the same level of attention that later games in the series received from fans (once Ubisoft figured out how successful AC1 actually was despite the lack of love it got).

My personal beef with AC1 has nothing to do with repetitiveness - I thought the voice acting for Altair SUUUCCCCKKKKEDDD! Though not enough to ruin the game for me.

RVSage
11-07-2015, 03:16 AM
Glad that the graphic downgrade, remains with consoles. The PC version seems as beautiful as Unity exciting :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2RSCVd2ywQ

Look out for the improved blood effects @1:09. Looks like it is worth the wait.

VestigialLlama4
11-07-2015, 05:41 AM
Glad that the graphic downgrade, remains with consoles. The PC version seems as beautiful as Unity exciting :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2RSCVd2ywQ

Look out for the improved blood effects @1:09. Looks like it is worth the wait.

Kind off off-topic don't you think. Can I just say I detest the PC Master Race and their ilk, their excessive sense of entitlement and their total lack of contentment, appreciation and gratitude. What difference does it make to have PCSS shadows when the rest of the game is arcade fun. :cool::o Migration would be smoother if everyone gets the same port. If you want a super-optimized PC version then the devs should maybe drop a set of Mod Tools as a DLC to fix it up themselves. So what a game is not fully using the capacities of a "gaming PC" (i.e. vastly more expensive than normal consoles or daily PCs), there are first world problems and then there's these frothing at the mouth complaints. A lot of the bad ports these days come because they want to make the PC version to look extra nice and have additional graphical features which the vast majority of gamers won't see.


Agreed. I know that VestigialLlama4 is a very socially progressive person, as am I, so I get why he appreciates the unique perspective of AC1- it's just not something that I think the majority of people all really care about, unfortunately. If AC1 is remembered, it'll be simply because it was the first game in the series (and for that, it truly does deserve some respect).

Majority is a really tricky word. If by majority we mean people who played the game and the people who post online then its different. Like AC3 is vastly more liked and popular among regular people than it is in gaming sites, but somehow the opinion of the latter has greater and I must say disproportionate weight. So which is the majority, because to me gaming websites and internet forums are technically a highly vocal minority one that is actually pretty easy to please most of the time. I mean that's why Nintendo is so powerful they actually know the real gaming audience better than others. They still try to make games that can appeal to children which western developers no longer try to do.

Among developers, I think AC1 will be more respected because you keep hearing later developers say they want to go back to AC1-style or some such. Like Ashraf Ismail and Darby McDevitt when they made the first full-length AC game they said AC1 was a huge influence. Amancio said the same about Unity as well. Neither of these guys were there at the beginning. And Patrice Desilets also said that AC1 was the purest game. AC1-Altair is also how an Assassin protagonist should be, unlikable, ambiguous and dangerous to be around. After Altair, only Edward Kenway had that same quality when you first met him.

RVSage
11-07-2015, 07:52 AM
Kind off off-topic don't you think. Can I just say I detest the PC Master Race and their ilk, their excessive sense of entitlement and their total lack of contentment, appreciation and gratitude. What difference does it make to have PCSS shadows when the rest of the game is arcade fun. :cool::o Migration would be smoother if everyone gets the same port. If you want a super-optimized PC version then the devs should maybe drop a set of Mod Tools as a DLC to fix it up themselves. So what a game is not fully using the capacities of a "gaming PC" (i.e. vastly more expensive than normal consoles or daily PCs), there are first world problems and then there's these frothing at the mouth complaints. A lot of the bad ports these days come because they want to make the PC version to look extra nice and have additional graphical features which the vast majority of gamers won't see.
.
Lol I hate the term master race myself. I was just glad they kept Unity's standard in atleast one of the versions. That is why I put it in here. I dont care about these NVIDIA specific features either

dimbismp
11-08-2015, 01:34 PM
13-0 Lol

Dat pointless thread though

Xstantin
11-08-2015, 05:12 PM
I guess I'll be the "Unity lover" lmao


NARRATIVE


A)Plot

Both were okayish (I guess), endings kinda sucked for both, but I think while Unity's was predictable it wasn't as cringey as Syndicate's


B)Protagonist(s)

Not really sure on this one. I think Evie and Jacob work cause it's two of them, Arno had his moments too


C)Characters
1.Allies

I think Unity had better allies, I liked how confused the French brotherhood was.
Syndicate's council is non existent although it gets mentioned - which is fine, but Henry Green just wasn't interesting enough (imo), Alexander Graham Bell was supposed to be the new Leo (I think?) but he dissapears pretty early on. I hope we'll get to know Abberline better with the DLC.

2.Antagonists

As a group I prefer Unity's Tmplars - although they weren't really memorable, to me at least they seemed to operate better compared to Syndicate - while in Syndicate you're constantly reminded how proactive the Templars are, all they do is setting up guardposts around the city. To me it looked like Lucy was the only one who actually did something.


D)MD


Definitely Syndicate. That "Underground" scene was nice


II.GAMEPLAY


A)Combat

I prefer Unity's slow combat.


B)Parkour

ACU, I don't really care abut rope launcher.


C)Stealth

Blackbox missions had more interesting layouts for stealth approach in Unity imo. Unity had some annoying things like cherry bombs not doing what they're supposed to and phantom blades not working from cover
My complaint with Syndicate is that it relied on kidnap mechanic a bit too much IMO
Knives are great in Syndicate though
I'd go with Unity here cause I had more fun trying to figure it all out, and because of room to room stealth


D)Customisation and skills

I prefer Syndicate, cause it was a bit more organized - if it makes sense, Unity had more options but sometimes they hardly made any difference. Horrible colors in Unity
I liked the Syndicate skill unlock more than Unity's coop grinding


E)Other

I never cared about coop that much, still I think heist missions were awesome


III.MISCELLANEOUS

A)Setting

Personally, I found Paris to be more impressive

B)Side missions

Penny dreadful crimes were better than Unity's Vidocq missions; I liked Unity's enigmas more than music boxes; heists were a bit more engaging than child liberation missions

C)Sound and music
ACS had more interesting soundtrack

D)Graphics
ACU, I don't really care much about graphics though

Overall, the games were pretty equal to me, but I mostly play them because of the virtual tourism anyway