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View Full Version : Observation based on latest dev. update



Ruy Horta
08-29-2004, 04:13 AM
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/270804/ph1.jpg

At what altitude is this B5N dropping its eel?

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Ruy Horta

Ruy Horta
08-29-2004, 04:13 AM
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/270804/ph1.jpg

At what altitude is this B5N dropping its eel?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta

hobnail
08-29-2004, 06:53 AM
It's actually a Tomahawk ASM, the wings and turbo inlet are about to pop out.

Freycinet
08-29-2004, 08:43 AM
far too high, obviously, i hope it is fixed for the final game, torpedo-dropping is so important to PF. Should be easy to just enter some parameters beyond which the torp just sinks to the bottom.

zuiho
08-29-2004, 08:47 AM
Yes, it's very high... but is a working in progress, too.

stansdds
08-29-2004, 08:54 AM
I've seen some errors in the pics and videos as well, but these are all taken from beta versions, so there will likely be major adjustments before it goes gold.

joberrick
08-29-2004, 09:51 AM
I saw a betty in a screen yesterday that was down low dropping his fish. I wonder if this means something?

Tater-SW-
08-29-2004, 10:28 AM
I saw that betty as well---it is flying lower than the AI normally likes to fly. Of course it is alone, you can get lone AI to fly low, but not groups.

tater

VFA-195 Snacky
08-29-2004, 11:04 AM
to the ones taking these screen shots can you please throw on some antialiasing.lol

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VW-IceFire
08-29-2004, 12:27 PM
According the old Aces of the Pacific manual, a Japanese Type 91 should be dropped at 200 to 400 feet while flying at 260 knots.

So converted that means:
- Drop from 64 to 120 meters
- Speed should be 480 kph (if I did that right)

The Kate in that picture is probably near 1000 meters. That torp is going to hit bottom before it does anything else.

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Yellonet
08-29-2004, 12:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freycinet:
far too high, obviously, i hope it is fixed for the final game, torpedo-dropping is so important to PF. Should be easy to just enter some parameters beyond which the torp just sinks to the bottom.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That wouldn't be too hard. But then AI pilots would never be able to conduct a successfull torpedo attack. Sadly enough this problem is not that easy to fix. Hopefully they will come up with a nice solution anyway http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Yellonet
08-29-2004, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The Kate in that picture is probably near 1000 meters. That torp is going to hit bottom before it does anything else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1000!?! Really... looks like 3 maybe 400 meters, still a bit too high though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Jason Bourne
08-29-2004, 02:00 PM
well, even if it dropped form 400 feet, in Pearl it would still smak into the bottom, after all, they had to modify the torpedos so that they wouldnt hit the bottom even dropping from a low alt

...there followed one of those moments in history, the sort when the entire earth seemed to stop its spin, hearts paused, and even the people who'd been screaming their loyalty to a man already dead would remember only silence.

Weather_Man
08-29-2004, 04:10 PM
We don't know what happened to the torp after it hit the water. Just because he dropped it, doesn't mean it didn't explode on contact, or sink. Wishful thinking, most likely. But still, we shouldn't make assertions without all the details.

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heywooood
08-29-2004, 04:18 PM
oh no Weatherman...thats the wrong tone...

You gotta get all nasal in this thread and speak through your nose and say something like.."Uffff... this sim is gonna blow like that torp as soon as it hits the water." but you cant come in here all reasonable-like and say stuff like "we shouldn't make assertions without all the details"..etc. thats just crazytalk. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif



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"Check your guns"

IV_JG51_Razor
08-29-2004, 05:43 PM
Heywooood, your attitude in here is getting a little tiresome. We all realize this is still a work in progress, and no one is saying that this is the way it's going to be in the final draft. we're just pointing out flaws that we see in the screens. If these flaws aren't addressed early on, we might just end up with them in the published game. I'd much rather whine and complain about it now in hopes of getting these things fixed, than post glowing thanks and gushing praise for something we know is wrong, and might end up getting stuck with in the end.

We're all big time fanboys in here, no one more so than me. I'd just like to see them get it right the first time.

Razor
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heywooood
08-29-2004, 06:16 PM
me? tiresome, eh... well - dont take offence at anything I said. It wasn't directed at anyone...just the general flavor.

and Ruy. Look - the devs. (via Burnin) have already said the flight models vis a vis the torpedo drops was being addressed and would be made more accurate, so I think critiqueing these screenies for that one or any other 'specific' thing is overkill. I, for one, have decided to look at just general things included in them, which planes, maps, ships etc...there are, and let the rest sort itself out. Its easy to notice the inconsistancies but since they are so obvious and since 1c has done well so far to at least attempt accuracy, I refuse to take such severe notice of them.

Thats what has me 'tired' since you asked. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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"Check your guns"

chris455
08-29-2004, 07:55 PM
@#$%$% a bunch of torpedoes. Just give me a
P-47N with a K-14 sight and lots of HVARs.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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JG7_Rall
08-29-2004, 08:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
@#$%$% a bunch of torpedoes. Just give me a
P-47N with a K-14 sight and lots of HVARs.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p47n2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen. You wouldn't catch me dead with a huge **** strapped to my plane flying low and slow...

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LEXX_Luthor
08-29-2004, 09:51 PM
heywooood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>me? tiresome, eh... well <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Like the Lexx? you know I saw that http://www.lexxfans.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/010.gif



Everybody sees a half empty glass. heywooood sees the glass as half full of water. http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/spit.gif



__________________
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"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

LuftLuver
08-29-2004, 11:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
Amen. You wouldn't catch me dead with a huge **** strapped to my plane flying low and slow...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Funniest post in months.

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
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DuxCorvan
08-30-2004, 03:23 AM
Panic! Riots! Plunder the TV shop! Rape the nun! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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It's gonna be a massacre, and we all are going to die! (again) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

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DuxCorvan
08-30-2004, 03:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Everybody sees a half empty glass. heywooood sees the glass as half full of water.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can it be beer? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-30-2004, 03:49 AM
What?

Luthier working on new Beer textures? mmm no wonder FP delayed again.


...heywooood is the webboard water Whiner, I am the webboard cloud Whiner. Really we talk the same thing. Water rise, make Cloud, returns to Water.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

DuxCorvan
08-30-2004, 03:55 AM
Then consider me the official Beer and Chick Whiner. Comfortable chat rooms on servers! For returning warrior, these sims have been cold and dark for too long... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tvrdi
08-30-2004, 05:55 AM
did u noticed that Zero`s wings are much bigger (longer) than in FB?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

DuxCorvan
08-30-2004, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
did u noticed that Zero`s wings are much bigger (longer) than in FB?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that A6M5 wings are different from A6M2 ones. They tried to strengthen structure and improve roll-rate and speed, sacrificing lift and wing load, which tried also to compensate by more power. The result was a rather different plane, with only minor improvements on performance, in exchange of some unpleasant effects.

But A6M2 seems more or less the same in PF and FB.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2004, 07:07 PM
This is an ill omen, if you ask me. In addition to more style over substance, it seems they may not have learned their lesson about torpdos YET.

If this follows the FB pattern, you'll be able to use torps as iron bombs still, with no parameters as to their use, which is a terrible affront to historical reality.

These fish had pretty stringent max alt and max deployment speed parameters. Even for the Japanese torpedos, which were more advanced than their American counterparts for much of the war. That's part of what made torp bomber pilots the ultimate in BRASS BALLS pilots; theirs was a true suicide mission almost every time. Running a ship's AAA gauntlet at close to nought feet, low, slow and level....jeez!!!

The Japanese were VERY concerned about using torp Kates at all at Pearl Harbor. Some voices in the planning phases thought all their torps would lodge in the sandy bottom and never hit the ships at all...and others were sure the Americans would have torp nets up.

BlakJakOfSpades
08-30-2004, 09:31 PM
hey wait, wasn't this attack made at dawn, how come the sun appears to reflect from the water as if at high noon in the val divebomb shot? lol jk, sorry, had to

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Tater-SW-
08-30-2004, 09:37 PM
As long as no one in here confuses the "Long Lance" 24inch naval torpedo with the type 91 air dropped torp I'll be happy, lol. I gathered from one of those french sites that the torp stuff was being worked on.

On a related note, skip bombing is in the same vein. Right now you can only get the level bomber AI B-25s to skip, and only then with some difficulty. The dedicated strafers (G and H) are nearly impossible. Regardless, all of them drop al the bombs, instead of being able to picle a couple at each target. The B-17 is nearly impossible to get to skip, and all of the bombers suffer from only instantaneous fuses workign (skipping from B-17 = death.

BTW, B-17s and B-24 routinely skip bombed in the SWPA.

tater

sugaki
08-31-2004, 05:00 PM
Everybody's making too big of a deal of this screenshot.

The person probably took a screen like that to get a beautiful screenshot, not to accurately portray torpedo physics. I do it all the time when taking screenshots.

Tater-SW-
08-31-2004, 05:27 PM
Except that if the AI was tasked with making a torpedo attack, it would attack the way it was programmed to, regardless of the need for a pretty shot.

The picture of the low alt Betty drop could also be a player flying it (it is flyable, unlike the Kate). I'd like to see at least a max alt, max speed limitation (different for different torpedos as well). In RL, the drop alt would also affect the range since if you droppped too high, and too close, the fish would go under the target harmlessly (or hit the bottom someplace like Pearl).

tater