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View Full Version : Remake and rebuild every map



GMnemonic
10-31-2015, 12:41 PM
Title says it all, the adventure map is so bad i think it should be rebuild rescaled and retextured completely.

Vasily.Tkach
10-31-2015, 02:47 PM
What we really need is build-in map generator with templates like jebuscross/8mm6a/6lm10a like in heroes3

As of now the only map that i liked is wastelands (in russian its called пустоши so i just ranslate it) the 4 players map that exist from the times of beta, but how long i can play the same map....

victorash
11-01-2015, 09:16 PM
http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/icons/uplay_small.png GMnemonic (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/225337-GMnemonic): Can you be more specific? What you don't like? What bugs did you find? In this way at least your feed-back would be more constructive. A feed-back that says all is bad and all should be changed doesn't really help much and most probably you will obtain nothing with it.
Personally I think that the maps are ok. It's not that easy to build a decent map and test it to have no bugs. I did that for money for 5 years with a heroes clone game for iOS - there are balancing and testing for bugs and then the map also has to look good, to have a story and a specific. There are a lot of factors to be involved. it's very easy to say all is bad and change all when you really don't know the work involved. Or maybe you are a pro map-maker and you do superb maps and you know exactly what I'm talking about case in which you should give the devs a hand with them and edit them and post them here - http://www.hommdb.com/advanced-search-submit/?haku_game%5B%5D=28 like the ones that want to help do.
I took a look on your posts - they are very negative and not constructive in general. I really don't get you man - do you want to help to get a better game or just throw with mud?

Vasily.Tkach (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/1471096-Vasily-Tkach): yes, I also love templates (played more the ones you mentioned), but they came later with the H3 HD mod. we can have them with Heroes 7 after the RMG and editor will work better and maybe will get some interest for the fan-coders that also brought improvements to previous versions

GMnemonic
11-03-2015, 09:44 AM
http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/icons/uplay_small.png GMnemonic (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/225337-GMnemonic): Can you be more specific? What you don't like? What bugs did you find? In this way at least your feed-back would be more constructive. A feed-back that says all is bad and all should be changed doesn't really help much and most probably you will obtain nothing with it.
Personally I think that the maps are ok. It's not that easy to build a decent map and test it to have no bugs. I did that for money for 5 years with a heroes clone game for iOS - there are balancing and testing for bugs and then the map also has to look good, to have a story and a specific. There are a lot of factors to be involved. it's very easy to say all is bad and change all when you really don't know the work involved. Or maybe you are a pro map-maker and you do superb maps and you know exactly what I'm talking about case in which you should give the devs a hand with them and edit them and post them here - http://www.hommdb.com/advanced-search-submit/?haku_game[]=28 like the ones that want to help do.
I took a look on your posts - they are very negative and not constructive in general. I really don't get you man - do you want to help to get a better game or just throw with mud?

Vasily.Tkach (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/1471096-Vasily-Tkach): yes, I also love templates (played more the ones you mentioned), but they came later with the H3 HD mod. we can have them with Heroes 7 after the RMG and editor will work better and maybe will get some interest for the fan-coders that also brought improvements to previous versions

Dear Victorrash,

I find your feedback understandable. I suppose due to the structure of the shadowcounsil you have not seen my more elaborate posts there.
It is true all my post have become very negative in nature and this is usually not the case. Also they've become very short because its tiresome to repeat.

Although im currently working as a dance teacher I did work and have studied to become a professional 3d animator, in the direction animation and games here in the Netherlands.
So I have some very good basis of critique.

For you I will go into more elaborate details about the why and fundamental flaws in HOMM7 which ruin this once gem of a series for me.

First off, the flaws are now build in because the game has been released, this makes it almost impossible to change at all at this point, this is why I consider this game lost forever, whereas even with homm 6 I saw potential for hope with expansions.


In homm7 Ubisoft and Limbic have deliverred a failed product of which I believe the underlying design philosophy in foremost gameplay systems graphics is fundamentally wrong.

Everywhere you look in this iteration you see the general direction this team took.
And it is one of oversimplification with an overall not immersive art style and world that does not hold togheter/ draw in the player, therefore a player will not feel immersed in the world.
The game lacks cohesion.

If you look closely at the creature abbilities, all of them are the same or of a particular group and very uninspirational.

To name a few, relatiate, quick, immune to fire, undead, construct, acid breath,

There are just a few good ones. This makes every faction or creatuer you encounter uninterresting and makes all factions carbon copies of eachother.
This makes it very easy to balance the game for this team -> money shortcut I know they've made this descicion for.

Implementation of flanking -> good idea but in this case they flattened out the creature abbilities and it is thrown in to try to make up for it in an easy way. So one of the very few new things is thrown in there to mask and hide they've hollowed out all gameplay depth.

Creature abbilities as undead or construct immune to arent really abbilities they should fall into another category like the element a creature belongs to.

Skill system, same direction -> all possible abbilities are locked in, makes it easier for them to balance, less skills It kills player variety and thought.

resources -> yes after critique they've gone back to all 7. They did go back to few cause of the same reason, the new ones are all blocks of steel with very shallow names. The quality of the materials is therefore not interresting, doesn't add up to the feel or logics of the game. No passion

town screens -> some are for 2d town screens i am for 3d townscreens iterrated to become better but even if you want 2 townscreens more there is a huge stylebreak in the game between the townscreens and the actual map design, the creature descriptions the housing the town the missing of roads etc all of this takes the player out of the world.
Very important -> things feel like they do not belong, creatures resources etc. There's no cohesion as a result of lack of passion thought time.
This is what you get if you do not build a game out of the heart but out of money and too few of it.

Adventure map -> although all flaws of homm 6 in its gameplay design which was yes one of oversimplification of gameplay systems and streamlining the game, this is the only one thing homm 6 excelled at. The maps where beautyfull and engrossing felt magical, the scale was right the textures well buikld and you felt there.
Out of all descisions if you have build an engine like that, and the game is bad keep the engine art style build a better game on top of it dont go back to the dark ages.

Flaws in this game, look at the textures especially the blend between them, the roads are painted like they've been drawn in paint, the grass texture is from the dark ages as monotonous, the trees are monotonous, the scale of the buildings trees etc makes you feel like a dwarf, way too many empty space etc.

Overall horrendous map design -> empty space means less tie faster map making etc, same reason oversimplification.

Spells -> less bad balance and unoriginal, cant even select or summong different elementals

necro faction -> shameless copy same reason

AI -> dont even get me started, it is programmed in a way that it wanders and builds teres no intelligence there and it doesnt even work.

Why? Oversimplification it has only been build that it looks like its playing the game on the screen after that they've stopped. (no gameplay just build to barely work)


See where I am going?

This underlying system especially gameplay is purposefully designed to make it cheap and easy for the developers to get this game to market in a way they dont even have to think or test. Which they also havent done, hance the hoards of game BREAKING bugs.

Standards are low in this day and age, its an age of quantity not quality, if you look underneath this game and it takes some time to look through the sheet of factions skins on top this game is bland and made monotonous in every part so theres no thought.

This is why there are too much resources, they put all back in but by making sure there are too much the developers didn't have to balance.

This direction is everywhere.

I hope this explains my views to you Victorash


Creature abbilities

GMnemonic
11-03-2015, 09:45 AM
and sorry for the spelling errors that might be in there i just woke up and am a very busy man nowadays.

victorash
11-07-2015, 10:52 AM
Iím not very active to the Shadow Council Ė only posted a few times. This is because there you canít elaborate. The post limit is to 500 characters and you have to post multiple times to be more complex. Also there is a lot of flaming and criticism there and I donít like that. Usually people donít even post to the topic. There was one thread about a patch that was posted by mistake in Russian (part of it). If I remember well it was about fixing the loading times and high memory usage Ė bug that was so much hated. Instead of saying if the patch resolved the problem or not for them most parts of the posts were making fun of ubi that they posted in Russian. I consider losing time being on that blog so I only fast read what is there.

I donít think that Heroes 7 is a lost cause. Heroes 5 had way more bugs at release and now itís a very nice game with the 2 expansions. I think that if they fix the Multyplayer and the AI this is ok. Actually Iím pretty amazed that since the release there are actually many changes, meaning they really work on it. What ruined the game in the first place was the deadline that was too early. Apart from that really Limbic did all they could in the given situation.

My feed-back regarding you was very specific and to this point - I wanted to know what is your motivation behind the acid posts because they surly donít help and are not constructive and at some point I didnít know if you really want to give your best to make the game better or you just want to flame. We all got the idea that you are not satisfied with the game. Now letís moving on with helping or if you are tired of this then better post nothing at all. You could use your skills that you said you have doing something for the game, not against it. There are already a lot that have negative posts.

Despite all these I see that after my feed-back your posts begun to be a little more detailed and constructive, although I think that some of them are in vain Ė meaning that they are not fit for the present time. Rebuild maps is not a priority right now and there are very few chances to realize something with this. Repass spells and every creature ability, get back to heroes 6 textures is just not realistic. There are so many bugs that need to be fixed that changing the entire game is just not going to happen. (Iím speaking about your post here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1288707-For-Future-Patches?p=11126681&viewfull=1#post11126681)). And if you like better old games thatís fine Ė just go and play them. What Iím saying is regarding words like Ďentirelyí, íallí, Ďevery timeí, etc. Ė words that express absolute. if you would put instead more soft words that express realistic changes maybe your feed-back could be implemented. For example there was a feed-back on the forum regarding contrast (only 1 graphical setting) and devs took it and introduced it. If that guy would say change all the graphics they are bad Ė do you think they would listen? Anyway I think you got the ideaÖ

About what you wrote here:
- yes the game is simpler than the previous ones. Things are repetitive and is less variety, but itís not that bad Ė these can change in the future and also with mods. Despite this there are still a lot of players that consider it very hard and complex. So they aimed to medium that is the majority.
- I think there are quite a lot of new things (different from H3 that I played more; Iíll try not to repeat): being able to choose preferred magic guild, scrolls, more attention on warfare units, sim turns, many buttons to configure your game (enable/disable settings), complex editor with 2 levels of difficulty (for advanced and beginners), new specialization for factions (although some repeat like blood race), quick bar for spells, new resources, tree system with the possibility to demolish entire row of buildings and rebuilt, more variety in creatures and you have to choose what to build, etc.. Iím not talking here that some of them are bugged and not working properly and I donít discuss here is they are good or bad, but only mentioning the new things.
- you are talking a lot about esthetics are how things blend inÖ probably because you are artist oriented. I also have my artist part (I paint, sing, dance, etc), but I also have my pragmatic part because I finish among others a technical university. And for now I must say that esthetics is not a priority. First you have a solid structure, after that you work at looking good and harmonization.
- AI Ė yes, itís not that bright, itís chaotic, in general isnít a challenge Ė here we have the same opinion.
- another things that I consider the same is that Ubisoft is a publishing company that is very money oriented and usually they hurry up with products

So in general your feed-back is good, but it fits better for later. Now could be overlooked and your effort too big considering the effect produced. But itís your choice anyway.
Have a nice day

GMnemonic
11-11-2015, 09:53 AM
You;re judgement of me is very off..

I've been one of the people complaining aboiut contrast and posting very detailed posts in the shadow counsil by posting them in bits on top of eachother.

Theres allot to be gained by redoing all creature abbilities, it will bring back meaningfull gameplay and depth to the game that is not there because all abbilities and factions are carbon copies underneath.. yes the colors ot better thats something, but it really is all over in this iteration

ON the adventure map i've been more detailed several times, redo the scale, use the trees of homm 6 instead of this very blend and generic trees, same reason no feel,

Why immersion it take the player experience out.

This should have been done way before this game was released.
Im being short because its tiresome repeating elaborate posts.. if you dont read them thats not my fault.

I have a very busy life and i have a background as a 3d animator so I kind of know how these things are done.

I do generally care about this game, but the fundamental thing is the general direction of simplification does not fit a game like homm.

On top of that the element of immersion is off. The world is not cohesive. the art style is not cohesive or fitting to the game.

The town screens style does not match the adventure maps style and the adventure map matches a game like civ. yes

GMnemonic
11-11-2015, 10:09 AM
so theres some detailed things ive been consistently saying. And they need to be changed.

Especially the scale on the adventure map the trees and the creature abbilities to give this game a core.

You should read better before you judge. Now I get why you think im being unconstructive but you're not seeing the effort i gave explaining this in the shadow counsil.

I do like you though. Youseem caring and fair.

In my current life im soo busy its a wonder I even post on a forum these days so it shows that I care about this one game only.
It has been a wonderfull and unique series, having all the gameplay fundamentals being torn out of this game makes it just a cover.

HOMM 6 was a beautyfull game but got allot ofthe gameplay out. What they should have done was bring the gameplay back in but keep the homm 6 aesthetic that was very well done if you forget the town screens.

I guess that was obvious to Ubisoft and Limbic but now theres more gameplay out, the most basic core/ creature abbilities and added in is flanking to make up for it.

All of these are descisions made out of ease and unwillingness to balance.

the direction in this game should be on variety. This creates longevity, balancing can be tweaked in patches but this fundamentals should be in.

To give this game a core worth playing and immersion to have the player connected to the world the adventure map really needs way more attention, with scale etc to there.

If you can carbon copy a faction which should not have been done you should have carbon copied the trees scale (engine) etc of homm 6.
Work out deeper gameplay on top.

The thing I like though is 2 champions per faction and that the mandatory 6 are in the base game this was good.

Still if you can look underneath the skins the abbilities are all the same with just some exceptipons. Making factions and gameplay extremely dull.

GMnemonic
11-11-2015, 10:15 AM
I believe sometimes very hard descisions need to be made, if the core is wrong. Sure in my work ive also made mistakes although painfull sometimes its better to do things over.

Some developers did this like final fantasy 14 I believe.

I hope Ubisoft realises this and makes funds availible to do this. Money grabbing means losing money over a series lifetime. It is dying as a result.

If the game was released later in a good state it would have profited of good worth of mouth and have more ull price sales.

At best it will start selling really well if the game is finally something but then the price has gone low. that is a shame.

Valderrama1990
11-11-2015, 10:38 AM
I think they are okay.

But they should have made more than just 8 not many to choose from...

NeoGalaxy
11-11-2015, 06:10 PM
@ GMnemonic (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/225337-GMnemonic) : Sorry to say mate but you've never figured that @Victorash might be working for Ubisoft Romania, where this game was tested? Well you'll see that he has no problems with any bugs in the game. he's like in love with the game. He doesn't care if the graphics are bad, the A.I. is dumb or inexistant. He doesn't care of skills do not work, skills are for losers mate. He doesn't care if the game eat 1000000 TB of RAM, who cares about RAM anyway. (there's also a car called Dodge RAM :P). So rather than trying to explain what is not working... mate just lie that the game is perfect and @Victorash will be your friend. I hope you understand how some people are, right now.

osoviejo
11-11-2015, 09:18 PM
I hope you understand how some people are, right now.

I do so love irony.

victorash
11-12-2015, 08:06 AM
@ GMnemonic (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/225337-GMnemonic) : Sorry to say mate but you've never figured that @Victorash might be working for Ubisoft Romania, where this game was tested? Well you'll see that he has no problems with any bugs in the game. he's like in love with the game. He doesn't care if the graphics are bad, the A.I. is dumb or inexistant. He doesn't care of skills do not work, skills are for losers mate. He doesn't care if the game eat 1000000 TB of RAM, who cares about RAM anyway. (there's also a car called Dodge RAM :P). So rather than trying to explain what is not working... mate just lie that the game is perfect and @Victorash will be your friend. I hope you understand how some people are, right now.

Well, obviously you didn't read all my posts. But I'm ok with that. I read yours and you are too busy complaining, criticizing or being ironic.... Maybe this is just you and maybe this is just how I am. Do you have a problem with how I am? Cauze I don't and I also don't take into account your opinion because it's not useful for me. But I figure it's polite to give you a response even if what you wrote is not directly adressed to me but it's about me as a response to someone else. Anyway I will concetrate further to contributr on this forum and will leave this thread as it is. I already expressed my oppinion.

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
11-12-2015, 11:05 AM
Guys, please do not personally attack each other, this is against our forum rules;


No Flaming
This includes any kind of personal insult, flame or intimidation. Responding in kind to a flame message is viewed as equally unacceptable, regardless of who started it. If you believe you are being insulted or otherwise flamed by another poster, please PM a forum moderator or admin rather than responding. This applies to both written text and image posting.

There is no need to turn disagreements into heated arguments. Rather than letting these threads become flame wars please agree to disagree or the thread is likely to be locked.

Thank you for your understanding.

shop6D3EACF7E
11-17-2015, 07:08 PM
Hi

I have create map in scenario, its possible to change a map prophetie to skirmish?

Thx

GMnemonic
11-17-2015, 11:49 PM
There almost no maps anyway.

Its insane how bad these maps coding and design are the whole game should be build from the ground up.

I just cant believe how this game is released.

After what can be done on the maps as seen in homm 6 they should have build the maps like that.

These maps have textures and trees from the stone ages so repetititive.
Also the scale is off.

The AI does not think, and the creature abbilities are soo the same threres no game to it.



The critique on homm 6 has been the game steering away from tactical strategy on the adventure map and resources.
What should be done for a heroes game is to make the game deep and coherent.

Gameplay design should engage the player. Every player that can look over a set of numbers sees that the overall design is rushed making every unit basicly the same.

No skin can hide that for a while.

Please ubisoft take some balls like square did once with final fantasy 14 and they did with the latest batman game.

Sometimes things just need to be redesigned how painfull it may be

R-Draco
11-18-2015, 02:34 AM
What was wrong with this thread you already started with basically the same name?

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1312443-Remake-and-rebuild-every-map?p=11115348#post11115348

I vote this thread be merged into the other thread or deleted.

victorash
11-18-2015, 06:23 AM
What was wrong with this thread you already started with basically the same name?

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1312443-Remake-and-rebuild-every-map?p=11115348#post11115348

I vote this thread be merged into the other thread or deleted.
Yes, I subscribe to this also. At least to be moved in the proper subforum

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
11-18-2015, 11:12 AM
I vote this thread be merged into the other thread or deleted.

Indeed, GMnemonic I have merged your thread with the other one.

Should you need to search for your threads, you can do so by clicking your name in any thread and choosing view forum posts, you can also view your forum posts from your profile page.

Thanks

LunaticAsylumLA
11-26-2015, 06:32 AM
Some maps do really need fewer resources and experience gain chests without armies guarding them. This will ensure that the progression is smooth and the quality of life is better. We, as strategy players, love slower progression and harder games.

GMnemonic
12-04-2015, 11:56 AM
forgot about the other thread sorry

MoritzBradtke
12-04-2015, 10:21 PM
i actuallly like the maps, no Need to rebuild everythig lol thread Name is very harsh and Shows Little respect to the People who made the maps, i enjoy em (: also excited for the new map i love small 2vs2 maps because they dont take years to finish

btw first i also thought there are too much resources in the game but i dont anymore u can just sell the spares for some Gold what is useful, being most stuff in the game quite expensive and on heroic u start with low ressources and u quite Need a lot, there is quite some Wood and ore in the game but it's okay, also i dont think some exp chests being unprotected is a bad Thing, it helps Speed up things in this slow game, u can always Play on heroic if the game it too easy for u, heroic is actually quite good in Terms of a challenge, if u Play very well and use strong hereos, most fights won't be a Problem at all but heroic neutral armies are quite big and if they sort the AI a bit it will be perfect (:

GMnemonic
12-08-2015, 12:29 PM
I have respect for the mapmakers but the maps art design choiches and basicly the whole game is below par on every standard it is barely playable or finished the maps are far to few and almost halfely build. I'm not alone noticing what is extremely obvious to those that look beneath the surface. It's visible in every aspect of the game, from ui to gameplay systems ai random map generator. Unfinished cinematics and it goes on and on and on placeholder textures.

Everywhere!, i for one will stop buying games like this, i spend my energy to show these developers what is apperent.

A game released like this shows that Ubisoft and Limbic have literally no respect for every gamer in the world.

It is a complete cash grab, it's below aplha state and it shows