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Zeus-cat
01-03-2004, 01:38 PM
I tried to create a mission on the Pacific on-line map with two Zeros and two Ki-84s attacking a US airfield. I gave the Ki-84s two 250 pound bombs and gave them waypoints to attck some stationary aircraft. I placed 4 B-17s on the runway to takeoff. I had not placed any AAA or US fighters on the map yet.

When the B-17s radio that they are under attack the Ki-84s immediately drop their bombs. The Ki-84s were still over the ocean north of the northern island and nowhere near any US plane. I doubt that the Ki-84s could even see the airfield at this point as they had to fly over the hill to get to the airfirld. There wasn't even a US plane in the air yet.

When I removed the B-17s the Ki-84s do exactly what they are supposed to do and they bomb the stationary aircraft and then return to strafe the same target.

I have noticed other fighters tend to dump their bomb loads when they are not in any real danger. I understand that fighters would usually jettison their bombs if they came under direct attack, but the Ki-84s reacted to a radio call from a B-17 on the ground.

Can someone look into this?

Zeus-cat

Zeus-cat
01-03-2004, 01:38 PM
I tried to create a mission on the Pacific on-line map with two Zeros and two Ki-84s attacking a US airfield. I gave the Ki-84s two 250 pound bombs and gave them waypoints to attck some stationary aircraft. I placed 4 B-17s on the runway to takeoff. I had not placed any AAA or US fighters on the map yet.

When the B-17s radio that they are under attack the Ki-84s immediately drop their bombs. The Ki-84s were still over the ocean north of the northern island and nowhere near any US plane. I doubt that the Ki-84s could even see the airfield at this point as they had to fly over the hill to get to the airfirld. There wasn't even a US plane in the air yet.

When I removed the B-17s the Ki-84s do exactly what they are supposed to do and they bomb the stationary aircraft and then return to strafe the same target.

I have noticed other fighters tend to dump their bomb loads when they are not in any real danger. I understand that fighters would usually jettison their bombs if they came under direct attack, but the Ki-84s reacted to a radio call from a B-17 on the ground.

Can someone look into this?

Zeus-cat

VW-IceFire
01-03-2004, 04:23 PM
How is the B-17 on the ground issuing a radio call? Stationary aircraft don't issue any radio calls. If indeed it is a plane taking off there should be no reason to have the Ki's ditch their bombs. I've had P-51's setup to attack scrambling Bf 110's and that worked no problems. Did you set the target to the B-17 flight group?

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

Zeus-cat
01-04-2004, 10:03 AM
The B-17s on the runway taking off issue the radio call. The stationary aircraft are the targets for the Ki-84s.

I think Bf-110s are usually regarded as bombers, not fighters. I know the Bf-110C-4/B is regarded as a bomber (200 points for a kill versus 100 for a fighter). The Bf-110s will hold their bombs until each specific aircrat is targeted. Then that aircraft dumps its bombs. This makes sense. What the Ki-84s did does not make sense.

Zeus-cat

plumps_
01-04-2004, 02:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When the B-17s radio that they are under attack the Ki-84s immediately drop their bombs. The Ki-84s were still over the ocean north of the northern island and nowhere near any US plane. I doubt that the Ki-84s could even see the airfield at this point as they had to fly over the hill to get to the airfirld.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a given distance of several kilometers where AI will always become aware of an enemy and decide what to do. Fighters will prepare themselves to attack the enemy, bombers will call for help simultaneously. It doesn't matter if they are able to see one another.
In this case a KI-84 equipped with bombs behaves like a fighter when it should behave like a fighter-bomber.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I know the Bf-110C-4/B is regarded as a bomber (200 points for a kill versus 100 for a fighter)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Points have nothing to do with bomber or fighter but depend on the number of engines an aircraft has. Two engines > 200 points.
But the "/B" in the name says that it's a fighter-bomber.



The issue affects not only the KI-84 but probably all fighters that can carry bombs and are not specialized in the fighter-bomber role.

I made some tests. The following fighters (!) dropped their bombs too early and attacked the flying bombers, disobeying their "mission orders":

Bf-109 G series
Fw-190 A series

The following fighter-bombers (!) ignored the flying bombers and attacked the ground targets assigned to them -- like they were told:

Bf-109 E-4/B
Bf-109 E-7/B
Fw-190 F-8
Bf-110 C-4/B
Il-2

Funny: when a Bf-109 E-4/B or Fw-190 F-8 is equipped with bombs it will attack the ground target with bombs AND guns. If it has default loadout it wont even use its guns against the target but attack the bombers instead.

So the AI behaviour is in a certain way linked to the loadout, but the implementation is not too good and mostly ignores the intentions of the mission maker.

IMO the AI behaviour should be influenced by
1. the target assigned to a flight by the mission maker -- most important!
2. the loadout.
3. the aircraft type.

Currently it seems to be the other way round.

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