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XyZspineZyX
12-24-2003, 05:50 AM
This isn't a bug, just a weird thing I noticed. I was buzzing along, my typical 5 feet off the ground and decided to kill the engine. The propeller stopped turning and I became a glider. One prop blade was vertical and under the spinner. The other two were obviously at 45's to the vertical on top. Anyway, I allowed my one vertical prop blade that was lower than the wing bump the ground, and suddenly all 3 blades bent! Only one touched the ground, yet all 3 bent. I don't gripe often, but I think this little bit of improvement can go a long way, since I seem to bump my prop on the ground more than anybody else! LOL

XyZspineZyX
12-24-2003, 05:50 AM
This isn't a bug, just a weird thing I noticed. I was buzzing along, my typical 5 feet off the ground and decided to kill the engine. The propeller stopped turning and I became a glider. One prop blade was vertical and under the spinner. The other two were obviously at 45's to the vertical on top. Anyway, I allowed my one vertical prop blade that was lower than the wing bump the ground, and suddenly all 3 blades bent! Only one touched the ground, yet all 3 bent. I don't gripe often, but I think this little bit of improvement can go a long way, since I seem to bump my prop on the ground more than anybody else! LOL

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2003, 06:02 AM
The bending props are for wheels up landing with the prop spinning fast. This is normal and nobody cares if one prop bends when flying like you were doing.

If you wanna be like, helpful, start a thread on AI seeing in the dark. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



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XyZspineZyX
12-24-2003, 06:13 AM
Hey, just trying to perfect the almost perfect sim. I didn't think it was too realistic.

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2003, 06:15 AM
On the other hand, you may have an idea. Try flying below ~180km/hr with magnetos off and the prop almost stops. I can see only one prop bending, but bascially, who cares? We need to spam Oleg with more Fix The AI threads of all kinds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif



__________________
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XyZspineZyX
12-24-2003, 06:17 AM
This is very nit picky. It has to be, because Oleg hit the major stuff on the head already. I have to LOOK to find things wrong! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2003, 06:21 AM
HAHAHA yes I see your point. Good One.



__________________
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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

CARBONFREEZE
12-24-2003, 01:33 PM
The amount of torque generated by a prop strike above 140 mph/1000 rpm would destroy most WW2 aircraft. The engine would rip off of the mount and the aircraft would simply tumble into the dirt.

If you can't understand that, think of going 90 mph in your car and slamming it into reverse gear. What happens?

Prop strikes in FB are a joke.

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

noshens
12-24-2003, 02:12 PM
Who are you to tell others what to do? And what he described is a clear bug and I DO CARE ABOUT IT.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The bending props are for wheels up landing with the prop spinning fast. This is normal and nobody cares if one prop bends when flying like you were doing.

If you wanna be like, _helpful_, start a thread on AI seeing in the dark. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



__________________
_RUSSIAN_ lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/
_Stanly is a _moron_, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex._<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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LuftKuhMist
12-24-2003, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CARBONFREEZE:
The amount of torque generated by a prop strike above 140 mph/1000 rpm would destroy most WW2 aircraft. The engine would rip off of the mount and the aircraft would simply tumble into the dirt.

If you can't understand that, think of going 90 mph in your car and slamming it into reverse gear. What happens?

Prop strikes in FB are a joke.

_Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!_

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gabriesky crashed because his propeller strked the ground and his plane wasn't blown to pieces, propeller bent and that's all. I have seen many 109 and FW190 belly land without the engine ripped off as you describe.

But who cares about bent props? AI is the thing to fix http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

XyZspineZyX
12-24-2003, 03:37 PM
They also should only bend right at the tips. If you've ever seen a real prop strike, just the tips are bent, the prop doesn't bend at the hub.

I don't care about AI, I fly on Hyperlobby exclusively.

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2003, 04:53 PM
Actually, before I ruthlessly and brutally attacked him, the Original Poster was interested in props that are not spinning fast, so No Torque. I noticed that too long ago, all non-spinning props bend even if they don't all touch ground. But its like, it never registered with me, never bothered to think about it.

waterinthefuel::
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't care about AI, I fly on Hyperlobby exclusively.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hit Refly before your prop hits the ground. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


__________________
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boohaa
12-24-2003, 08:00 PM
I agree with Lexx.I am amazed at all the little details that Oleg and crew add to the sim for eye candy only.I was amazed when I saw the prop bend on impact.I can live with this small bug since we are no where near a fully realistic simulation YEThttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fix the AI Oleg( pleasehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) and please do something about dogfighting B17'shttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

WhtBoy
12-24-2003, 08:38 PM
ACTUALLY, the torque he was talking about was not the torque produced by the running engine. It's the torque produced at the blade attachment point by applying a force (ground strike) at the end of the prop blade. In case you're wondering, the equation is Torque=Force X Distance. Now, once the yield strength of the prop is reached (noted by the bending stress sigma=(Mc)/I) the force rapidly drops off so I do not believe it is correct to say that a prop strike will always shear an engine out of the mounts. A prop strike is a dynamic event so resolving the force applied will involve an impulse calculation with a very high resultant force, but, as we know from seeing
actual prop strikes, the ductility of the prop certainly absorbs enough of the forces to prevent an engine mount failure. Even if the prop blade was made of manuerium (strong as s*%t)I would bet one of the Ubi lawyer's lives that the bolts attaching it to the hub would fail before the engine mounts.

Only one thing can be gleaned from the above info and that is that the AI is in desperate need of fixing way before a tiny little tweak like a single blade being bent from a prop strike. Especially when you consider that the current prop is likely modeled as a single piece. Single blade damage will probably require modeling it as individual blades plus the hub/spinner. As sheriff Bufford T. Justice of Texas said, "We ain't got time for that stuff!" (G-Rated version). It would be nice if the time was there, but it ain't.

-WhtBoy.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Actually, before I ruthlessly and brutally attacked him, the Original Poster was interested in props that are not spinning fast, so No Torque. I noticed that too long ago, all non-spinning props bend even if they don't all touch ground. But its like, it never registered with me, never bothered to think about it.

waterinthefuel::
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't care about AI, I fly on Hyperlobby exclusively.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hit Refly before your prop hits the ground. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


__________________
_RUSSIAN_ lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/stan.shtml
_Stanly is a _moron_, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex._<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SeaFireLIV
12-25-2003, 06:14 AM
Oh come on! What next? My plane fuselage doesn`t scrape on the ground properly? Smoke doesn`t billow out right? Fire doesn`t burn my plane properly?
Boy you guys really are searching if that`s the best you can come up with. There are far more needy bugs (like AI collisions/ bomb loadouts) to be addressed than `The propellers don`t bend properly!`
At least they DO bend, and quite well!

`Man is an embodied paradox, a bundle of contradictions.` Lacon.

XyZspineZyX
12-25-2003, 06:38 AM
So Seafire, if you'd shoot at the left wing and the right wing flew off, would you be content saying, "Well, at least one of the wings flies off, and quite nicely I might add?"

If you shot at the engine and the tail flew off, would you be happy that at least SOME piece of the plane broke off when it was shot at?

I bet you wouldn't.

LEXX_Luthor
12-25-2003, 09:15 AM
SeaFire would not like that.

The Final Last PATCH For All Time is coming, stress levels are on the rise within the FB community, tension is building in the simmers about Sound and loadouts, Panic has broken out over the Ju-88, its Christmas and Oleg isn't here to accept his daily mercy beating, and then You wag your bent prop in front of everybody. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20031123/226hawks24_denied.jpg
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/149657_hbok24.html


merry christmas


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/stan.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

p1ngu666
12-25-2003, 12:47 PM
i think the prop or whatever would be designed to bend/break to stop tons of damage to the plane/pilot.
u get that alot in some toys and other things
small failore instead of massive one

robban75
12-25-2003, 12:56 PM
The Fw 190D(and A-9) have wooden props and shouldn't bend at all, but on the D-9 they do.

noshens
12-25-2003, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think the prop or whatever would be designed to bend/break to stop tons of damage to the plane/pilot.
u get that alot in some toys and other things
small failore instead of massive one<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have no idea of what the original poster is talking about.

http://www.img.net/cliff-m/vvn/me262.jpg

SeaFireLIV
12-25-2003, 02:02 PM
Oh, come on, Waterinthe Fuel, your comparisons of wings breaking off in the wrong place have nothing to do with such an insignificant problem such as your bending props . It really is a non-problem..... .
And true I wouldn`t like it if the wrong wing fell off, and I would truly whine about that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Happy new Year!

`Man is an embodied paradox, a bundle of contradictions.` Lacon.

XyZspineZyX
12-26-2003, 01:11 AM
Seafire, what's the difference between the wrong wing breaking off and the wrong prop blade bending? If it's wrong, it's wrong.

I already admitted that it's nit picky, because Oleg has done a fabulous job elsewhere throughout the sim.

It is an issue, and to be honest, I think your AI issue is a joke. Who cares about AI? I'd rather have my plane that is accuratly depicted in damage rather than gripe about the intelligence of a machine.

Majesty5K
12-26-2003, 01:39 PM
You have got to be kidding me. Much like this board, this thread is a human tragedy... Try going outside and talking to real people once in a while, folks, it's good for you.

Prop blades don't bend "right" because there are only three propeller models: Unmoving/undamaged, spinning, and Unmoving/damaged. There is no real-time simulation of damage, just a change of parts, and if the damaged propeller part isn't appropriate to the kind of damage inflicted, well... Tough.

crazyivan1970
12-26-2003, 01:53 PM
Did you try reinstalling FB? Maybe that will solve prop bending prob http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

XyZspineZyX
12-26-2003, 03:17 PM
So why ***** and complain about the damage model for an aircraft? You said it yourself, if the damage shown doesn't resemble the damage inflicted, TOUGH!

Then I want no more threads about any damage to any aircraft, otherwise your being a hypocritical whacko.

LEXX_Luthor
12-26-2003, 03:26 PM
Did you try Re-Formatting your hard drive? That may fix it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


waterinthefuel::<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Seafire, what's the difference between the wrong wing breaking off and the wrong prop blade bending?...

...I already admitted that it's nit picky,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And there ya go. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Wings breaking off are NOT nit picky.

In Normal times your bent prop would be a great subject for internet discussion and, at least among Male simmers/simerettes, boasting about, but the Community is Panicking over the upcoming FINAL PATCH. If we blow THIS PATCH we don't get another chance.


waterinthefuel::<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think your AI issue is a joke. Who cares about AI?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hit REFLY before your prop bends, and expect to be piled on...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20031123/226hawks24_denied.jpg

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

FbusterMk3
12-27-2003, 04:54 PM
After registering yet again here's my two pennorth:
The prop blades always bend backwards in FB - if they hit the ground while being powered by the engine the blades should bend forward - unpowered - backwards.

CARBONFREEZE
12-27-2003, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftKuhMist:
Gabriesky crashed because his propeller strked the ground and his plane wasn't blown to pieces, propeller bent and that's all. I have seen many 109 and FW190 belly land without the engine ripped off as you describe.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am talking about full power prop strikes, if your engine was at idle (or a low RPM) the only damage that may occour is damage to the prop and or engine, depending on how much power was applied at the time of the strike. Most engines that do have a power on prop strike are usually trashed or go through an extensive overhaul.

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

WhtBoy
12-28-2003, 12:27 AM
I can't imagine any real flight prop strike situation that would case blades to bend forward. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the forward motion of the plane is always going to cause the blades to bend backwards, regardless of power setting. Maybe just a feather touch on a VERY hard surface? Even then the damage would only be on the extreme end, not like the reverse of a ditched blade. Anyone ever seen blades bent forwards?

-WhtBoy.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FbusterMk3:
After registering yet again here's my two pennorth:
The prop blades always bend backwards in FB - if they hit the ground while being powered by the engine the blades should bend forward - unpowered - backwards.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LEXX_Luthor
12-28-2003, 12:41 AM
FbusterMk3:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The prop blades always bend backwards in FB - if they hit the ground while being powered by the engine the blades should bend forward - unpowered - backwards.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know, I think Fbuster is talking about the blade pitch. If he/she is correct then the twisted blade strikes the ground, there will be a force pushing the blade tip forward, the forced depending on how fast the blade touches the ground...how fast the blade is spinning, and this forward force could overpower the force at which the ground pushes the blade back. Fbuster did say that with low prop speeds the primary force would be to bend the blade backwards.

I guess it depends on how fast prop is spinning relative to the plane compared to the plane's speed relative to the ground, in addition to the angle of incidence of the blade...ie...how much the blade is angled.

I dunno, I am just making this up, but now this is an interesting thing to think about.

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WhtBoy
12-28-2003, 12:44 AM
I retract my previous post about CF's intent and promist to quit assuming. I do, however, still disagree with his statement that a power-on prop strike would destroy most WW-II aircraft and cause it to tumble into the dirt. OF course, I can't say that it never happened that way but I believe that other components would fail before the engine mounts and total destruction of the airframe.

Of course, depending on power setting, rate of decent, and the surface impacted, the engine will be damaged to some extent. If memory serves me correctly (hardly ever happens), any sudden stoppage requires, at the very least, a complete inspection including an x-ray of the crankshaft. Of course, back then there were no pesky FAA forms or regulations that had to be dealt with.

-WhtBoy.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CARBONFREEZE:

I am talking about full power prop strikes, if your engine was at idle (or a low RPM) the only damage that may occour is damage to the prop and or engine, depending on how much power was applied at the time of the strike. Most engines that do have a power on prop strike are usually trashed or go through an extensive overhaul.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LEXX_Luthor
12-28-2003, 12:51 AM
Perhaps a more relevant idea is the effects of prop blades hitting other aircraft. That happened alot, either by mistake or by design.

....and its something that could have an effect on gameplay.


__________________
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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

FbusterMk3
12-28-2003, 04:23 AM
When the propellor is under load the thrust forces tend to bend the blades forward, I don't know what metal WW2 props were made of but I doubt they had the stiffness of a modern prop especially the tips, making an engine assisted landing with undercarriage up should bend the tips forward.
Look carefully at old photos WW2 planes in profile and you can see the forward bend of the prop.

FbusterMk3
12-28-2003, 05:02 AM
This new forum doesn't allow editing after 30 mins elapsed..?
I should have added that the prop bent forward scenario is probably easier to imagine after a muffed take off when the engine is at full throttle.