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View Full Version : Oleg, i will test all german loadouts (AB/SC/SD and rockets) more coming.......



JG53-Falkster
01-25-2004, 08:42 AM
My suggestions for oleg:

>SC 50/250/500
I think overall we can say the are good modeled, even when they are different in the reality but red site fight with the same conditions, so..

>SD500
-There is no difference between SD and SC Bombs ind IL2FB (why then different bombs?)

>AB500 SD4HL (Pls fix this Bugs)
SD4HL=Antitank bombs with big fragment power
(the fragment because often infanterie were sitting on russian tanks.)
- The should kill each tank (like PTAB 2.5)
- The should have a bigger fragment power like SD-2
- a second AB500 with SD-2 Bombs would be nice

>AB250 SD-2
- The Power is well against soft stationary targets, but for example against flying bombers, imagine a SD-2 is more powerfull then a Mk108 bullet....

R4m
- Balistic is totally poor, the power is well.
- They have a rocket propulsion for about 1200m

WfGr21
- Balistic is strange....
- They where fired on a distance of about 1200 meters, but then they are in il2fb 30 over the target?!?
- The Power is good

Some "red"bombs bugs:
- You can destroy for example the marat with PTAB 2.5 (erm... did they? )
- You can easly destroy ships with rockets
- Russian rockets seems to be cruise missile...

I know Oleg you didnt made the AB 250 and AB 500 against bombers thats clear. But normaly the damage model should be the same.
First to clear the situation:
AB 250 does have SD-2 against soft targets(like planes)
AB 500 does have SD-4 HL against tanks

So in this "Comic" i hit a B-17 a least with 5 SD-2 Bombs thats makes about 10 kg explosives and fragments. I dont think that the B-17 is resitable against such a damgage power!
The second i hit a least with 4 SD-2 bombs.

I tested it with AB 500 SD-4 Hl to. Several hits nearly nothing.

Sometimes a plane went down with several hits but one time on eight test........

I tested the ABs also with ground targets but damage is very poor, like against flying planes

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab1.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab2.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab3.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab4.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab5.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab6.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab7.jpg

here you can download the track of this "comic"
AB250track (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab12.ntrk)

here are some other track about the same theme.
AB500 (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab500.zip)

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Sun January 25 2004 at 11:18 AM.]

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Sun January 25 2004 at 11:19 AM.]

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Sun February 08 2004 at 05:24 AM.]

JG53-Falkster
01-25-2004, 08:42 AM
My suggestions for oleg:

>SC 50/250/500
I think overall we can say the are good modeled, even when they are different in the reality but red site fight with the same conditions, so..

>SD500
-There is no difference between SD and SC Bombs ind IL2FB (why then different bombs?)

>AB500 SD4HL (Pls fix this Bugs)
SD4HL=Antitank bombs with big fragment power
(the fragment because often infanterie were sitting on russian tanks.)
- The should kill each tank (like PTAB 2.5)
- The should have a bigger fragment power like SD-2
- a second AB500 with SD-2 Bombs would be nice

>AB250 SD-2
- The Power is well against soft stationary targets, but for example against flying bombers, imagine a SD-2 is more powerfull then a Mk108 bullet....

R4m
- Balistic is totally poor, the power is well.
- They have a rocket propulsion for about 1200m

WfGr21
- Balistic is strange....
- They where fired on a distance of about 1200 meters, but then they are in il2fb 30 over the target?!?
- The Power is good

Some "red"bombs bugs:
- You can destroy for example the marat with PTAB 2.5 (erm... did they? )
- You can easly destroy ships with rockets
- Russian rockets seems to be cruise missile...

I know Oleg you didnt made the AB 250 and AB 500 against bombers thats clear. But normaly the damage model should be the same.
First to clear the situation:
AB 250 does have SD-2 against soft targets(like planes)
AB 500 does have SD-4 HL against tanks

So in this "Comic" i hit a B-17 a least with 5 SD-2 Bombs thats makes about 10 kg explosives and fragments. I dont think that the B-17 is resitable against such a damgage power!
The second i hit a least with 4 SD-2 bombs.

I tested it with AB 500 SD-4 Hl to. Several hits nearly nothing.

Sometimes a plane went down with several hits but one time on eight test........

I tested the ABs also with ground targets but damage is very poor, like against flying planes

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab1.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab2.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab3.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab4.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab5.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab6.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab7.jpg

here you can download the track of this "comic"
AB250track (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab12.ntrk)

here are some other track about the same theme.
AB500 (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/ab500.zip)

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Sun January 25 2004 at 11:18 AM.]

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Sun January 25 2004 at 11:19 AM.]

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Sun February 08 2004 at 05:24 AM.]

JG53-Falkster
01-25-2004, 12:05 PM
My suggestions for oleg:

>SC 50/250/500
I think overall we can say the are good modeled, even when they are different in the reality but red site fight with the same conditions, so..

>SD500
-There is no difference between SD and SC Bombs ind IL2FB (why then different bombs?)

>AB500 SD4HL (Pls fix this Bugs)
SD4HL=Antitank bombs with big fragment power
(the fragment because often infanterie were sitting on russian tanks.)
- The should kill each tank (like PTAB 2.5)
- The should have a bigger fragment power like SD-2
- a second AB500 with SD-2 Bombs would be nice

>AB250 SD-2
- The Power is well against soft stationary targets, but for example against flying bombers, imagine a SD-2 is more powerfull then a Mk108 bullet....

R4m
- Balistic is totally poor, the power is well.
- They have a rocket propulsion for about 1200m

WfGr21
- Balistic is strange....
- They where fired on a distance of about 1200 meters, but then they are in il2fb 30 over the target?!?
- The Power is good

Some "red"bombs bugs:
- You can destroy for example the marat with PTAB 2.5 (erm... did they? )
- You can easly destroy ships with rockets
- Russian rockets seems to be cruise missile...

So....
I tested the Ab500 SD4HL against tanks, because its one of the best antitank bombs on german side. (in real)

I made 10 Tests every time i made direct hits. on different tanks. Even on tank without an armor on the top have a look on this pics.
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/tank1.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/tank2.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/tank3.jpg

The AB250 SD-2 against soft targets works well, the fragment radius should be a bit bigger.....
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd1.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd2.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd3.jpg
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd4.jpg

Here are several tracks with SD4HL against different tanks.
AB500 against tanks (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd4.zip)

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd-2.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd-4.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/t34.jpg

I hope oleg one day we will have real SD4 HL bombs...........
Its up to you.

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Sun February 08 2004 at 05:23 AM.]

BBB_Hyperion
01-25-2004, 02:36 PM
Always wondered why they are so ineffective .)

BUMP

Regards,
Hyperion

Fillmore
01-25-2004, 04:13 PM
I don't know about the near missed, I don't really think those should be kills, but I am not an expert on that sort of thing.

What prompted me to make the other thread, and what struck me as indicative of something being bugged, was the orange fireballs on targets that aren't being destroyed. Some of these light/open topped tanks that have been used can easily be killed with 20mm cannon, yet a diract hit on the rear deck by one of these bomblets does not destroy it (though it does make the fireball).

The B17s are very interesting, I was going to try some static aircraft as targets but I hadn't gotten around to it yet. Even though static aircraft can be killed with 20mm easily, I have noticed in bombing them with SC500s that the kill zone seems small like for heavy tanks rather than it is for softer targets.

necrobaron
01-25-2004, 05:18 PM
This is a very well thought out and presented thread,Falkster. I hope Oleg sees this.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
01-25-2004, 06:52 PM
kwaliteh thread be sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
what height should u drop these ?

Fennec_P
01-26-2004, 03:59 AM
Even stranger is the fact that the PTAB bomblets are so ridiculously overmodelled.

One bomblet can kill virtually any ground vehicle, be it truck, gun or tank. It a bomblet hits an airplane, its instantly destroyed.

I even tried PTAB against the Marat, and sunk the battleship with one load of PTAB bombs. These are small 2kg bomblets that should do nothing more than make dents in the deck.

Stefan-R
01-26-2004, 04:55 AM
*bump*

Falkster were you able to destroy any tank with the SD 4 HL?
Seems to be a serious bug, especially as the Abwurfbeh¤lter were often used and were very effectiv (even if dropped by an unskilled pilot.

It hope this will change with the addon.
Also there should finally be some bigger bombs for the german bombers (He 111, Ju 87 and Ju 88) like SC 1000 and SC 1800.
Especially as there are some experimental loadouts designed for some new a/c's, but essential loadouts for present a/c's are still missing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

FliegerAas
01-26-2004, 09:28 AM
*bump*

Online unterwegs als "Hundsbube"
http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243

JG53-Falkster
01-26-2004, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
kwaliteh thread be sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
what height should u drop these ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch my tracks.........http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Normaly i trow them on 950 Meters... but when the target is on a large area higher 1200 oder so...Bombdelay is 0 sek.

JG53-Falkster
01-26-2004, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stefan-R:
*bump*

Falkster were you able to destroy any tank with the SD 4 HL?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't destroy tanks with the AB500/SD4HL

noshens
01-26-2004, 10:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FliegerAas:
*bump*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Farbe_und_Bunt
01-26-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yay1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FliegerAas:
*bump*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JG53-Falkster
01-26-2004, 11:48 AM
SC/SD/AB against trucks (soft targets)

How i already said, the fragmentradius of this bombs SD-2 seems to be a little to small.
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/AB250LKW.jpg
AB500 not really good against trucks thats ok but not good at all against tanks. But i think should be a bit better even against trucks
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/AB500LKW.jpg
SC50 hm, i think there are nice modeled a bit more power would be nice.
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sc50LKW.jpg
Sc250 i think is well modeled
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sc250LKW.jpg
Sc500 seems not really powerfull....
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sc500LKW.jpg
nearly no difference between SC and SD bombs, but i think its ok because SC is very powerfull SD is not so powerfull but a lot of fragments, which are good against soft targets.
But Fragment radius seems a bit to low.
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sd500LKW.jpg

Next test will be against tanks.

[This message was edited by JG53-Falkster on Mon January 26 2004 at 12:21 PM.]

A.K.Davis
01-26-2004, 11:53 AM
I suspect that the damage effects of various air-to-ground ordinances often gets overlooked by the development team. Why? Probably because hardly anyone seems to care.

If you have actual test data (screenshots, detailed info, etc.), I'm sure it would not hurt to send it in to:

il2beta@1c.ru

If you have suspicions, or "feelings" that something is not working how you imagine it would in real life, then don't bother.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

JG53-Falkster
01-26-2004, 12:00 PM
Ready Room is here to posting bugs, isnt it. I sent already many emails to 1c but i never got an answer.......

Sure i could make 100 scans from all my books, but its funny when i didn't get an answer....

I make this test not only for 1c i make them for all axis pilots, so they can also better see which Bomb they should use for which target.......

The AB didnt work till IL2FB in IL2 they didn't work, we sent and sent and posted bugreports but nothing changed, now i try to post here thread with many informations, also other pilots with can post here the opinion or scan or i dont know what.

Jippo01
01-26-2004, 12:31 PM
I think this a good subject for testing.

And as mentioned there is a gross disparity between PTAB 2.5 bomblets effectivity and that of SD-4HL. They are very similar weapons with similar explosive content (SD4 = .4kg of TNT/RDX . PTAB2.5 = .45kg TNT?) and should have very similar effects with SD being more effective against tanks because of it's shaped antitank charge and heavy weight (4.5kg vs 2.5kg).

I think that area is worth testing.


-jippo

LeLv28 - Fighting for independency since 2002
http://www.lelv28.com

Falkster's Ju-88 fan site:
www.ju88.de.tf (http://www.ju88.de.tf)

VW-IceFire
01-26-2004, 12:46 PM
Falkster, keep it up. Oleg says he does read almost every post on this forum. He seems very sensitive to community needs...ultimately the decision is upto him in terms of if they have time to make corrections or if its worth it ultimately to make corrections and what time and resources may be spent fixing something. But I'd feel fairly confident in that he does read every major post...this would be one of those.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

JG53-Falkster
01-26-2004, 02:28 PM
Ok i tested all bombs against tanks t60 and T34


Ab500 4SD HL nothing happenendhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, just lightshow (t34 and t60)
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/AB500tank.jpg

SC and SD against tanks is the same......(t34)
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sc500tank.jpg

sc and sd against light tanks is also the same (t60)
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/sc500tanklight.jpg

with SC 50 you cant kill a T-34 didnt test against T60
with SC 250 you can kill 4 T-34 didnt test against T60
with SC/SD 500 you can kill 4 T-34
with AB250 nothing happened, and thats good like this.

more tests coming.....
i will also compare other nation bombs with german for example 1000lb vs. SC500

Cold_Gambler
01-26-2004, 02:50 PM
Excellent thread, Falkster!

Thanks for taking the time to do this testing in a methodical manner (nice aim, btw) and sharing it with everybody. It provides useful info and a good basis for discussing improvements to FB,

Cheers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

owlwatcher
01-26-2004, 06:03 PM
500lbers the B-17s carry do not destroy Js2s.
No matter how many.
I use them for targets because of this.

Jabo-Aquila
01-27-2004, 06:41 AM
Since 1.21 patch, WfrGr21 work correctly. So I hope ABs will soon... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
01-27-2004, 09:03 AM
thanks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brotrob
01-27-2004, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jabo-Aquila:
Since 1.21 patch, WfrGr21 work correctly. So I hope ABs will soon... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, I got a different Experience with 1.22.
If I hit in the middle of a Formation of 4 B17 with these 2 WfGr21, nothing happens. I tryed with unlimeted Ammo, and I could hit a dozend Times in this Combatbox, but nothing happened. When I was lucky, all I got was a Fuel leak. Only direct hits produced a Kill. This was a Weapon, which reduced the Flightperformance of the Carrierplanes , but had a good Effect when hitting.

Greetings,

BLUE_Brotrob

JG53-Falkster
01-27-2004, 02:24 PM
Werfergranaten coming soon http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Waldo.Pepper
01-27-2004, 04:23 PM
Mother of all BUMPS!!!

Oleg PLEASE!!!!!

Why isn't this poster a playtester!?!?!?!?

JG53-Falkster
01-28-2004, 11:50 AM
I tested the PTAB 2,5 against the T-34, how Jippo already said, SD4HL and PTAB 2,5 is nearly the same in real but unfortunatly not in IL2FB, with PTAB 2.5 you can really easy destroy this T-34 absolutly no problem.

I compared also the Lbs 1000 with Sc500 and both made the same damage....
The same with FAB 250 and SC250

Oleg could you say us the difference between SD and SC bombs in IL2FB i can't see any.
Btw, an AB500 filled with SD-2 would be a nice bomb and of corse AB500 filled with right working SD4HL.....

Here an attack with a IL-2 and PTAB 2.5....
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/PTAB.jpg

JG53-Falkster
01-28-2004, 12:21 PM
HAHA http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I found the best B-17 Killer end its really easy VAP-250 you get a least two B-17 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Anyway each il2 loudout is good against B-17 not like german bomblets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thats fun, every time B-17 explode in each smal piece.

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/f1.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/f2.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/f3.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/f4.jpg

JG53Harti
01-29-2004, 03:02 AM
http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/aufwachen.gif --> http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/schieb2.gif

MfG Frank

<center><img src=http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/harti.gif alt="III/JG53"> (http://www.jagdgeschwader53.de)</br></br><img src=http://harti.equitatura.de/53rdHeader.gif alt="53 TFW"></center></br>
</br></br></br>

Health_Angel
01-30-2004, 02:40 AM
bümp

-Health Angel-

http://www.uniquehardware.co.uk/server-smilies/otn/violent/bigun2.gif

http://www.jg27-berlin.de/Downloads/II__JG27_Banner/Bannerengel.JPG (http://www.jg27-berlin.de/)

Zitat:
Karen (Tania) Blixen: "When did you learn to fly?"
Denys Finch Hatton: "Yesterday"
(Out of Africa)

Jippo01
01-30-2004, 02:19 PM
Bump for bombs! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


-jippo

LeLv28 - Fighting for independency since 2002
http://www.lelv28.com

Falkster's Ju-88 fan site:
www.ju88.de.tf (http://www.ju88.de.tf)

Stefan-R
02-01-2004, 01:56 PM
*Bump*
Don't forget to add some AB and SD bombs to the D-3 loadouts.

Nazi_Boy_USA
02-01-2004, 07:11 PM
Falkster you rule, and 1c and Davis is half-assing your fine work. You should be on their payroll. Good for you and good for all.


Last but not least.

God Bless Germany

A.K.Davis
02-01-2004, 09:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nazi_Boy_USA:
Falkster you rule, and 1c and Davis is half-assing your fine work. You should be on their payroll. Good for you and good for all.


Last but not least.

God Bless Germany<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's my family got to do with it? :P

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

Stefan-R
02-03-2004, 01:31 PM
*bump*

JG53-Falkster
02-04-2004, 09:36 AM
I started to test Rockets, i began with the balistic of each rocket, i will also test the power of each rocket. but later.....

Werfergranaten WrGr21
111kg 41kg TNT
Vmax 1200km/h
range 1200m (~levelflight)

Balistic:
The Werfergranaten have in Il2FB a very strange "circle" They fly very high over levelflight ~30m (on 800m)and then they go down very fast. Normaly the should fly approximately straight; after 1200m they're going down. The speed of rockets are well modeled i think.

R4m
4kg 0,5kg TNT
Vmax 900 km/h
range 1800 m (~levelflight)

Balistic
The R4m have in Il2 a very very bad balistic!
The range is totaly poor, they have fuel for 1000m in il2 till 750m....
They are very slow too......
Somthing is really wrong with this rockets....
Normaly the have been shoot on 600m distance levelflight with bombers, but they fly not level they're are on the highest point on 600m?!?!?

RS 86
i have no datas...

Balistic:
This i can call rocket! wow! a straight flight till 800meters, then they go down very slow.....
They seems to be very fast! about 1600 km/h!!!!
(its not balistic its linear http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Something is really wrong with those rockets, unfortunately I cannot speak well english. else i could give better explanations...and i could tell more....
but the pics speaks for them self....

BTW Oleg, THIS is schoolphysik!........

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/raketen.jpg

ST_FlushGarden
02-04-2004, 11:30 AM
you need a girlfriend man http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG53-Falkster
02-04-2004, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ST_FlushGarden:
you need a girlfriend man http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

true..

At the moment IL2FB is my girlfriend http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Atzebrueck
02-04-2004, 06:12 PM
tracks and images:

The unbelievable range of the R4M:
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/r4m_miss_b.jpg

http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/r4m_miss.trk

R4M again
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/r4m_b.jpg

http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/r4m_hit.trk

RS82 as cruise missile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif:
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/rs82_b.jpg

http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/rs82.ntrk

JG53Frankyboy
02-04-2004, 06:39 PM
not to forgett the Ship DM

you need 2 Il2T to sink one Transporter/Tanker vessel , because 2 torpedos are needed

but a normal Il2 can sink as minimum 2 ships with its 4 BRS132 rockets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

not well balanced http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FliegerAas
02-04-2004, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EJGr.Ost_Anonym:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yay1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FliegerAas:
*bump*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Online unterwegs als "Hundsbube"
http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243

Willey
02-05-2004, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FliegerAas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EJGr.Ost_Anonym:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yay1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FliegerAas:
*bump*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Online unterwegs als "Hundsbube"
http://www.metalforum-austria.net/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=15243



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JG53-Falkster
02-06-2004, 08:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FliegerAas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EJGr.Ost_Anonym:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yay1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FliegerAas:
*bump*

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bump

LeadSpitter_
02-06-2004, 10:29 AM
test the fab on ships does more damage to heavy battle ships then 2 torpedos.

interesting work falkster

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

Stefan-R
02-07-2004, 11:26 AM
bump for the bombs.

Oleg please take at look at the Ju 87 D-3 loadouts , there should be at least AB 250, AB 500 and a single SC 1000 possible.

JG53-Falkster
02-08-2004, 06:01 AM
I shoot on this Bomberformation with Wfgr21. The Power is well, i shoot down one bomber (two i think is the maximum) several bombers geht fuel leak. And because this 6 bomber throw the bombs. (thats strange but thats an other problem)
Many bombers got fuel leak but not only one got a damaged engine....
Normaly they shoot the granades into the bombers, and then the shoot down the bombers with guns which were falling back because damaged engine etc.......

I tested also the R4m the power is well but the balistic...puh...


http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/wg1.jpg

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/wg2.jpg

JG53-Falkster
02-08-2004, 06:22 AM
My suggestions for oleg:

&gt;SC 50/250/500
I think overall we can say the are good modeled, even when they are different in the reality but red site fight with the same conditions, so..

&gt;SD500
-There is no difference between SD and SC Bombs ind IL2FB (why then different bombs?)

&gt;AB500 SD4HL (Pls fix this Bugs)
SD4HL=Antitank bombs with big fragment power
(the fragment because often infanterie were sitting on russian tanks.)
- The should kill each tank (like PTAB 2.5)
- The should have a bigger fragment power like SD-2
- a second AB500 with SD-2 Bombs would be nice

&gt;AB250 SD-2
- The Power is well against soft stationary targets, but for example against flying bombers, imagine a SD-2 is more powerfull then a Mk108 bullet....

R4m
- Balistic is totally poor, the power is well.
- They have a rocket propulsion for about 1200m

WfGr21
- Balistic is strange....
- They where fired on a distance of about 1200 meters, but then they are in il2fb 30 over the target?!?
- The Power is good

Some "red"bombs bugs:
- You can destroy for example the marat with PTAB 2.5 (erm... did they? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )
- You can easly destroy ships with rockets
- Russian rockets seems to be cruise missile...

Stefan-R
02-09-2004, 08:05 AM
But Oleg don't foget:
Fixing the bombs and rockets is useless if the a/c's can't carry them.
So please complete the loadouts for Ju87B-2, Ju87D-3, Ju87D-5, He111H-2, He111H-6, Fw190F-8, Bf109F-2/4 (the can carry bombs), ... as far as possible.

Stefan-R
02-11-2004, 06:33 AM
*bump* for the loadouts and AB-250/500

Willey
02-11-2004, 07:15 AM
Hmm butch could repost his loadout lists...

I remember there were quite some differences to what we have in FB.

Roughly:

Most 109s have a 96x SD-2 option, but 500kg is for K only.
190 can also carry 250kgs where the 2 droptanks are placed on the wing racks.
He H-2 has 32x 50kg or 8x 250kg, H-6 is able to carry external loads like 1000kg bombs
If you can take a SC 500, SD and AB 500 should be available, too. (and others like SB, PC if they get modelled)

There should be more different ABs. Just some:

AB-500-1: 74 SH-4HL - that's the one we have. Should kill tanks.
AB-500-1: 37 SD-10
AB-500-3A: 4 SD-50
AB-500-3B: 4 SD-70

AB-250-1: 96 SD-2 - we have this one
AB-250-2: 224 SD-1 or 144 SD-2 (280kg) or 40 SD-4HL or 28 SD-10 C

There were also AB-50 and AB-70 (not sure about the 70, but 50 certainly). Don't know the "filling" though. Not to forget AB-1000s http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. ABs are quite versatile...

I'd rather have crowded loadout lists for each plane (because there's so much stuff) than just a small selection where certain things are missing that I'd like to use. I'd just mention the FW-190's ability to carry a 500kg + 2 250kg or 8 50/70kg bombs. Imagine they are ABs filled with SD-4HL. Quite a tank killer then. BTW: I'm missing those PB II rockets on the F-8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

JG53-Falkster
02-11-2004, 09:48 AM
Unfortunatly the IL2FB community and Olegs team is not really interested for a correct "BombProgramm" and stuff.

It turns more and more just about dogfighting, this plane does not turn like this like that...
Im even wondering why there are bombers......

Its a shame for bomberpilots like me.......

Willey
02-11-2004, 11:09 AM
I'm also missing the function of those bomb selector panels...
It literally sucks that a plane with 4 SC 50 and 1 SC 500 first drops those 50s... normally I'd attack the main target with the big one and then go for additional ones with the small bombs. It's better to release the big one just because of the better flight performance you'll get. Right now, only the 110 and the 190F-8 drop the big ones first...

Stefan-R
02-12-2004, 09:24 AM
It should be possible to select how the bombs are released.
Sometimes its better to release the wing-bombs first and sometimes its better to release the fuselage bombe first.
Its time to have a look at the bombers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JG53-Falkster
02-12-2004, 02:05 PM
Email answers by Oleg or 1c........

This isn't a problem of Bombs modeling.
Its a probelm of simplified damage modeling of ground objects.
I will tell you liitle secret. In some German bombs the explosive is 10
times higher than should.... Just becasue modeling right weight and type of
explosive had not any effect in a game.
I know all about ballistic of rockets that we model.
And I have seen on the German forum the pictures.
Generally we model teoretic ballistic with some just very little
simplification.

Russian rockets were designed for ground artillery initially and had very
power jet engine that to fire them on a distance for more than 5 km (Its for
RS82) and for more than 7 Km (for RS132) and up to 8 km for RS300 (that was
already a copy of German rocket, that was done in 1944), but had more power
engine.
Only in 1938 it was tested against Japanese in air. Then these rockets were
going almost without changes for installation on the planes. Teh changes
were done in warhead that use two types of explosion head simultaniosly. One
with fuse and one with contact. groudn was only with contact warhead.
Recommended distance to fire RS82 rocket was 1.000-1500 m for fuse set to
equal time of rocket flight. It is recomendation for attack of bomber
formation that to destroy formation itself.
Real warhead was so power (we have decreased it a bit ) that if it was
exploded in 5 m distance of Stuka for example then the Stuka was 100% going
down.

You may send me ballistic test data for German Rockets, if you have such
curves (don't need tables, I have them German, US and Russian tests). So if
we are wrong then we will correct, But do it asap.

Effience of German rockets in tests were far worse then RS.... Especially
bad was in test WfGr21 In test the very experience pilots on captured FW190
were not able to hit the special big air target (on 50 m altitude) from 500m
distance... the rockets was going in any other direction but not as proposed
in technical documentation and confirmed these things that told worked for
Soviet Union after the war German engineers and German test pilots.

Ok. I need to go home. Didn't sleep two days.


I saw you pictures.
Here in tools we can see how big is damage on a car for example. And be
sure that they get damages in code, Just due to one step damage on the
ground object (simple) they dooesn't show it. These that can continue move -
do it. But really then they could be damaged in the next attack due to
_accumulated_ damage by say one bullet.

So the picture is way more complex than you think

For bob we will have the damage complexity for most ground objects like it
is now for the planes in FB. So it will be visible.
But in Fb we will not touch that code.

And... Real life is complex thing. If you like to calculate just
aerodynamics profile of the wing you need couple of hours on a PC. But not
real time rendering. I hope you understand how big work we did that to mke
many things close to real on moder home PC, but not on super computers..


We don't model antitak SD4.
If to model it then it will be with the same effect on the ship like PTAB.
Due to simplified damage model of ground object.
Aircraft. You never hit any lifeimportant part of B-17 with the pices. I
chekced in tools.
Its why some time you have result and some time - not.


&gt; Thank you for your very fast and very detailed answer. It was also not a
&gt; little work for me to test all bombs and stuff, but it's nothing against
&gt; your work, so...
&gt; I never thougt that russian rockets are good like this, i have nothing
about
&gt; them, so i was wondering why there are so much better than german.
&gt;
&gt; Im sorry, but i have still some questions:
&gt; - Will the AB500 SD4HL be fixed so that we have a german antitank bomb
like
&gt; the PTAB 2,5?
&gt; - Does SC and SD bombs in IL2FB have a difference?
&gt; - Will PTAB 2.5 be fixed (they can destroy the marat)
&gt;
&gt; or you does not fix that because everything is connected with one another?


How many shells was in 50 mm cannon for Me-262.
And do you have any data for that cannon?


&gt; eh... you wrote me that? Was that preview for someone else?

It was the question for you. I send such questions to all that can help me.
We have this plane in a sim.
All I have cureently for the data of this cannon that was installed on two
aircraft Me-262A-1a/U4:
MK214A
Two aircraft were modified to fire a single Mauser MK214A 50mm gun also
developed from the KwK39. This gun was lighter than the BK5. Its muzzle
velocity was 1,100msec firing 169 rounds per min.


&gt; How many shells was in 50 mm cannon for Me-262.
&gt; And do you have any data for that cannon?
&gt;
&gt; I wrote you this. Could you give a smal answer on each question?

I did answer.

&gt; Thank you for your very fast and very detailed answer. It was also not a
&gt; little work for me to test all bombs and stuff, but it's nothing against
&gt; your work, so... I never thougt that russian rockets are good like this, i
&gt; have nothing
&gt; about them, so i was wondering why there are so much better than german.
&gt;
&gt; Im sorry, but i have still some questions:
&gt; - Will the AB500 SD4HL be fixed so that we have a german antitank bomb
&gt; like the PTAB 2,5?

We modelled the bombe with antiinfantry load. There were several variants
for that purpose that use the same type of bomb frame. Hope you understand
my English.

&gt; - Does SC and SD bombs in IL2FB have a difference?

I don't remeber exact things, but they are different.

&gt; - Will PTAB 2.5 be fixed (they can destroy the marat)

This is also answered in other email. I sent you several emails.
We don't plan to fix Ptab. Its not a ptab problem, but problem of the
simplified damage model of the ships (and in principle for all ground
object.).


&gt; - When SD4HL does not work correctly could you fill them with SD-2?

As I remeber there are inside SD-2 See above about damage model.

&gt; or you does not fix that because everything is connected with one another?

Yes everything is connected, especially online code.

Atzebrueck
02-12-2004, 03:35 PM
SB250 contains SD2
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/sd2.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/sd2-2.jpg

SB500 contains SD4
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/sd4.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/sd4-1.jpg

There are 3 possibilites:
-Unlike Oleg says, the AB500 contains SD4, but just doesn't match the performance of the real life counterpart.
-From the beginning, the developers chose to model SD2 with the graphics of SD4 (I guess they didn't, but it's a possibility, at least)
-Once the SD4 of FB were SD4, but have been changed to SD2, because of the ships' undetailed damagemodel: the graphical representation remained the same. That would prove, that changing the code is coplicated, but not as complicated as Oleg says (I don't think that possibility fits, because the AB500 has been bad during all versions of FB). They can implement new weapons and new planes. Why not implement a new AB500, if changing the old, bugged one is not possible ?!

[This message was edited by Atzebrueck on Thu February 12 2004 at 02:58 PM.]

Oleg_Maddox
02-13-2004, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
SB250 contains SD2
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/sd2.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/sd2-2.jpg

SB500 contains SD4
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/sd4.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/sd4-1.jpg

There are 3 possibilites:
-Unlike Oleg says, the AB500 contains SD4, but just doesn't match the performance of the real life counterpart.
-From the beginning, the developers chose to model SD2 with the graphics of SD4 (I guess they didn't, but it's a possibility, at least)
-Once the SD4 of FB were SD4, but have been changed to SD2, because of the ships' undetailed damagemodel: the graphical representation remained the same. That would prove, that changing the code is coplicated, but not as complicated as Oleg says (I don't think that possibility fits, because the AB500 has been bad during all versions of FB). They can implement new weapons and new planes. Why not implement a new AB500, if changing the old, bugged one is not possible ?!

[This message was edited by Atzebrueck on Thu February 12 2004 at 02:58 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ptab, or SD4 are effective only with direct hit.
Its cumulative greandes, if you know what it is. The explosion near the tank doesn't give efect with both tipes of bombs.

Ptab were able to burn armor of Tyger II, which was tested after WWII

On Kursk battle when it was tasted for the first time it was found that PTAB are one of most effective over columns of armored vehicles

German cumulative bombs against armored targets due to great spread area (modelled by German documets of tests)has more little effect, but when hads direct hit - almost always destroy tank.

So, guys, about what the speech? Why Sd do not explode and has no effect? Then you need really to learn physical effect of these bombs as it works with the hit as the burn-flow on a direct line (forward). And if you hit the surface of wing it doesn't means that it will have fatal effect. It may have effect even less than 20 mm shell, becasue the pices of explosion effect of such bomb will be after hole on the other side of the wing. And if not damaged life-important devices, thern it is not more than just hole in a wing. And not big hole comparing to 30 mm HE shell explosion.

Cumulative bombs are effective only with direct hit and only on ARMOR. Because with the hit on the other side armor is generalted flow of burn + pices of methal that spread inside the tank and kill crew (at first) or engine.


Big non fragmetal Bombs:

First of all amount of explosion pices that we model corresponds to real such things that was taken from real sources about trials of bombs and tech data for them.
The speed of pices and effect on a different distance modelled also well and corrsponds to real data taken from these sources.

So really bombs,shells, etc, modeled as never before in any of the sim or the game. Be sure!
Just say me who are able to show it (directions of real hits for example) directly in engine from other developers of the games??? We don't afraid to show it because we know that we did the best possible way and better then any other. Or I'm not right?

You ask alwasy to get more and more realistic. We are going by this way, listen users, etc... The we get someting that all is bad... Ususally for Germans.... It is really strange. But then nobody of these say that FW is the most strong plane in the game... Why? Intersting.... They like it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Becasue it it is their side plane...
(FWs got complex DM in AEP finally. So you will see all the construction elements modelled, like in most other aircraft.)

Isn't the better to do not make soe great amount of loadouts and then simply to make arcade game in terms of explosions, don't model the DM like we do it and all will be happy?


Back to the ships and cars as well).
Small Ships and cars had the most "simple" damage model in a sim. Big Ships from FB and now Tirpitz in AEP has already much more complex DM then in previous versions.
Small ships and cars has the DM that use following method. There are not any devices modelled, Its a hit box, that looks close to the 3D models itself (would say that many other developers doesn't have even such things and model just hit sphere for any ofbject! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). Thi hit box has DM code that accumulater the "damage amount" and then only when it achive the critical point - really damages. Was impossible to make the same as on the planes. Simply due to used PC resouces and our time for development. And also due to fact that we need to optimize all the sings in a sim. And first prioritet gets the aircraft. Becasue at first it is a simulatro of the aircraft, but not bombs or markings of the planes.

Now about rockets:

If you have no data then why you speak that it is wrong?

RS82 distance of flight is up to 5-7 km. No one Axis or Allies rocket was able to do the same. Engine is way more powerful than on WrGr rockets. The stating speed from a rails was 452 m/s. The maximal speed achevd with working engine is close to 1,700 m/sec (its why they have such auful sound in real!) These rockets were designed in 1936 for the ground artllery and they were used for the first time on aircraft in the Mongolia against Japanese aircraft. Japanese expertise wrote in repor to Germans that Russians used super heavy shells equal to 70-100 mm shells explosion. That if it is exploded in 5 meters distance of aircaft then the aircaft is goin down (something like this description.)
Recommended distance of fire for Russian pilots was 1,000 - 1,500 meters using normal gunsight. This is against bomber formation! Not against one plane! And fuse was set for such equal time to distance. The second device of explosion was for direct hit. If closer then this distance and if there achived direct hit.

Sorry, but no one nation had it. Even RS rockets were simple, they were the best. And till end of the war they had large amount of modifications for explosive and purpose. Just for IL-2 were build about 500,000 BRS-types rockets! Other nations just copied that (Except Frenches that had rockets on aircaft much early than Russians!).

Now about German and most Allies rockets: Why do you think they had some inital angle (up) of rails (or tube)? Just because of their bad speed and distance (read then it is ballistics!). WGr rockets in this case are probably worstest.
R4M rockets? Why they were shooting all at once? Due their effience maybe? Or becasue to achive the EFFECT OF SHOT GUN FROM REALTIVETELY SMALL DISTANCE? That to hit something....and maybe. From big distance they are non-effective. Because spreading too much.

Enough said, no time more. Need to finsih asap AEP.

The modeling of damage on the groudn will be more advanced only in the BoB sim. I'm sorry, but if you don't like as it is for the current moment then you need to find better WWII flight sim.

Oleg_Maddox
02-13-2004, 01:15 AM
I was wrong. We model SD-4 and it has 4 time more exoplosive cumulative warhead then in real, Unlike Russian has real digits. Sorry.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
SB250 contains SD2
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/sd2.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/sd2-2.jpg

SB500 contains SD4
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/sd4.jpg
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/sd4-1.jpg

There are 3 possibilites:
-Unlike Oleg says, the AB500 contains SD4, but just doesn't match the performance of the real life counterpart.
-From the beginning, the developers chose to model SD2 with the graphics of SD4 (I guess they didn't, but it's a possibility, at least)
-Once the SD4 of FB were SD4, but have been changed to SD2, because of the ships' undetailed damagemodel: the graphical representation remained the same. That would prove, that changing the code is coplicated, but not as complicated as Oleg says (I don't think that possibility fits, because the AB500 has been bad during all versions of FB). They can implement new weapons and new planes. Why not implement a new AB500, if changing the old, bugged one is not possible ?!

[This message was edited by Atzebrueck on Thu February 12 2004 at 02:58 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

crazyivan1970
02-13-2004, 01:24 AM
wow that`s a big post comrade Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I take it as a good news, AEP is almost there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Oleg_Maddox
02-13-2004, 01:25 AM
One more:

The effect of 2xVAP250 was enougn to sank the German transpot ship on Black sea. There are several descriptions in WWII docs about it. One case is even documented in the recall of Il-2 pilot (near the Kerch in 1943, during evacuation of Germans from Kuban).

VAP500 and VAP1000 used on Pe-8. These where designed for use form up to 1,000 altitudes.
Never used against planes. Just the sim allow it to test you...

BI-1 was in two variant designed. One was for use container of bombs that to drop on the bombers. But they were not cumulative bombs against armor (see above for principle of explosion). They as usual contact explosion bombs with secondary explosion by fuse (that to do not kill civilians or troops on the ground). It was successfully tested. But never used in VVS.

A.K.Davis
02-13-2004, 01:30 AM
Wow, great information. One question: by "cumulative" do you mean "cluster" or "sub-munition" type weapons?

Great to hear more complex DMs for ground objects in BoB.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

Menthol_moose
02-13-2004, 01:44 AM
http://www.battlefield.ru/library/bookshelf/losses/pics/panther_10.jpg

100kg bomb that landed directly on a panther tank


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://simpsons.metropoliglobal.com/fotogramas/2f13/09.jpg

Eh, mates! What's the good word?

Stefan-R
02-13-2004, 01:54 AM
Dear Oleg,

so the SD4 are not able to destroy any tank?
Very sad to read, because it would be one of the few ways to destroy tanks with german weapons.

And be honest, there is no great need for anit-personal-bombs in FB because there are is no infantry ect.
It would be really nice to have anti-armor-bombs on both sides.


Also one thing about the loadouts: of course we don't need any unimportant loadout, but for example the P-38 will have experimental loadouts and for example the Ju 87 D-3 doens't even have AB250/500 which the B-2 can carry. I also heared that there will be SC 1000 modeled, which could be carried by D-3 (maybe also by B-2) and which would be essential to attack battleships ect.
Look at that list from butch2k:
**********************************************


Ju 87D-3
Wing weapons: 2x MG-17 (1000rpg)
Rear gunner weapon: 1x MG87Z (1000rpg = 2000total)

Options:
- 1x 250kg
- 1x 250kg + 4x 65kg (for SC70 for instance but most of the time SC50)
- 1x 500kg
- 1x 500kg + 4x 65kg
- 1x 250kg + 2x 250kg
- 1x 250kg + 8x 65kg
- 1x 500kg + 2x 250kg (seems not to have been much used)
- 1x 500kg + 8x 65kg (seems not to have been much used)

The following loads seem to have been rarely used because of problems in handling the bomb.
- 1x 1000kg
- 1x 1000kg + 4x 65kg

The following loads were possible but on very short ranges, and with strain to the airframe:

- SC1400
- SC1800

*************************************


I can't believe that is that difficult to add an existing bomb to the loadout of a plane.
Also at the He-111 every loadout are totally wrong (exept the 2x Torpedos).

[This message was edited by Stefan-R on Fri February 13 2004 at 01:55 AM.]

[This message was edited by Stefan-R on Fri February 13 2004 at 03:23 AM.]

Atzebrueck
02-13-2004, 07:43 AM
Regarding the rockets:
The RS82 is too accurate. The R4M shouldn't stop in midair after the fuel is burned.

AB500:
Oleg, please, we know how a hollowcharge / Hohlladung works.

But a direct hit won't destroy a tank in FB :P. I'll make a track about the SD4 :P:
12*4 AI Me210 and 4 Fw190F8 attack Russian tanks with AB500, 74 SD4 inside of each ---&gt; 3848 SD4 on a small target area.
That should produce at least one direct hit on a tank :P.

So, let's see what a "SD-4, which has 4 time more exoplosive cumulative warhead then in real" can do http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

[This message was edited by Atzebrueck on Fri February 13 2004 at 07:45 AM.]

Atzebrueck
02-13-2004, 08:12 AM
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/ab500.jpg
http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/ab500.trk

The one wagon has been destroyed by the guns of the AI controled 190. The AB500 won't even damage the wagons http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Jippo01
02-13-2004, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jippo01:
I think this a good subject for testing.

And as mentioned there is a gross disparity between PTAB 2.5 bomblets effectivity and that of SD-4HL. They are very similar weapons with similar explosive content (SD4 = .4kg of TNT/RDX . PTAB2.5 = .45kg TNT?) and should have very similar effects with SD being more effective against tanks because of it's shaped antitank charge and heavy weight (4.5kg vs 2.5kg).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I do not understand what is the difference between PTAB and SD-4HL. Figures suggest VERY similar performance.

Also a good picture from first page:

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/ju88/varia/t34.jpg

110mm penetration is enough for destroying ANY tank with a direct hit.


-jippo

LeLv28 - Fighting for independency since 2002
http://www.lelv28.com

Falkster's Ju-88 fan site:
www.ju88.de.tf (http://www.ju88.de.tf)

Atzebrueck
02-13-2004, 11:47 AM
bumb

boohaa
02-13-2004, 01:24 PM
Hey thanks oleghttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifI really wanna see better damage models for tanks and trucks in BOB.But from what I see there seems to be two 3D models for say a truck.It shows the truck in good condition and then with wheels torn off and damaged.That looks the same as in FB.If you can comment just a bit we would appreciatehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One more thing.....Nobody has mentioned how GREAT to get new DM for FW familyhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Laters

Cold_Gambler
02-13-2004, 01:53 PM
THanks for your comments Oleg,

Yes, we will always want more and better!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fillmore
02-13-2004, 01:58 PM
Hmm, Oleg i'm thinking maybe your SD-4 have 4X the explosive but of the wrong type? I remember when I tested against trucks they were more effective than the SD-2, but as others have said they have no effect against tanks.

I'm thinking the PTAB has an antitank warhead modelled, while the SD-4 has more power than real, but it is modelled as antipersonel warhead rather than as antitank?

In the online wars and such that we have it is really unfair for the PTAB to be modelled as antitank while the SD-4 is modelled antipersonel if that is the case.

Atzebrueck
02-14-2004, 06:07 AM
bump

F19_Olli72
02-14-2004, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boohaa:
One more thing.....Nobody has mentioned how GREAT to get new DM for FW familyhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, its funny how so few ppl pick up about the positive news rather than just keep picking on the negative. Thanks for the info Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Storm_Bird
02-14-2004, 06:58 AM
I think it will more funny if missiles add in FB.

http://www.moxing.net/ww2/plant/german/he162-4.jpg

GINNER_SK
02-15-2004, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boohaa:

One more thing.....Nobody has mentioned how GREAT to get new DM for FW familyhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Laters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>HEY MAN! HAVE YOU EVER FLOWN FW? SO TRY IT ONLINE. THE FW NEED -AT FIRST- A REAL FM THEN DM...

Jippo01
02-16-2004, 09:03 AM
Lay off with the caps lock (READ: Stop shouting).


-jippo

LeLv28 - Fighting for independency since 2002
http://www.lelv28.com

Falkster's Ju-88 fan site:
www.ju88.de.tf (http://www.ju88.de.tf)

lbhskier37
02-16-2004, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GINNER_SK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boohaa:

One more thing.....Nobody has mentioned how GREAT to get new DM for FW familyhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Laters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>HEY MAN! HAVE YOU EVER FLOWN FW? SO TRY IT ONLINE. THE FW NEED -AT FIRST- A REAL FM THEN DM...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Learn to fly before yelling about FW flightmodel. If you wanna try to take my A4 on with any other '42 model be my guest.

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig2.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

JG53Hunter
02-17-2004, 01:59 AM
Up to the top with this very informative thread.

bump

tascaso
02-18-2004, 07:20 PM
Regardless of all the criticism some warranted and some not...this is still the greatest creation ever in the world of WWII sims. Just look at HL on the weekends nearly 1000 folks online.

Much thanks Oleg

Tony

Jippo01
02-20-2004, 01:16 PM
+bumb+ for this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


-jippo

LeLv28 - Fighting for independency since 2002
http://www.lelv28.com

Falkster's Ju-88 fan site:
www.ju88.de.tf (http://www.ju88.de.tf)

Stefan-R
02-21-2004, 02:11 AM
Thank you, Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif