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I-Like-Pie45
10-06-2015, 08:03 AM
This is a thought that crossed my mind in the mess hall the other day while I snacked on chocolate chip pancakes and spicy ground beef for breakfast while washing down the meal with hot cocoa, and I was wondering what you people thought of these possible candidates. The suspects are:

Anne Frank - for a little girl who didn't really do much in her life, Anne Frank is pretty famous for reasons I've never really understood. But what if it turns out that she was really a Sage and wrote a book of first civilization teachings based on her special Sage memories which was stolen by the Templars? It would also explain her young death as a result of Templar meddling.

Elvis Presley - In real life Elvis Presley was a minor one-hit wonder who tried to pass off Afro-American music as his own who died as a 400-lb Walmart greeter/Burger King clerk but for some reason people really like to pretend to be Elvis/claim Elvis is actually alive. As such, the Sage theory can be used to explain all the Elvis impersonators/sightings as Sage reincarnations.

Syd Barrett - Syd Barrett was the lead singer of Pink Floyd in their no one cares because we haven't released the rainbow album yet period, and no one remembers him because he only did one album and it weren't the ones that were dealing with Roger Waters daddy issues or the Pink Gilmour cash-ins. He apparently went insane and reclusive and stuff, like the time he got fat and shaved himself - this behavior would all be easily explained as insanity brought on by his Sage nature.

Keith Richards/Mick Jagger - as the only two members of the Rolling Stones that anyone actually knows the names of, the amount of narcotics and alcohol that they have consumed would've killed any normal mortal and as such, they must be living zombies. Now keep in mind I didn't play AC and I only watched Brian played it so I don't remember what a Sage really is but I guess since they reincarnate they're pretty much be living zombies as well.

Crazy Horse - Crazy Horse was an Indian who was apparently really crazy and liked horses and resisted American colonialism practices in India and was responsible for such monumental events like the battle of Little Bighorn and the Sepoy rebellion and as AC4 and ACU proved Sages like to cause monumental events like the French Revolution. Plus no one really knows what Crazy Horse looked like cause thats what his Wikipedia article told me so he can easily be tweaked to resemble a Sage.

The Zodiac Killer - The Zodiac Killer killed a bunch of people in San Francisco and he made a lasting contribution to American culture by inspiring the first Dirty Harry bad guy who is more well-known than any of his victims. Also there was a movie made about him starring Iron Man, the Hulk, and Donnie Darko which too is more well-known than any of his victims. Since they never caught him, this can be explained as the Sage having learned from his experience of being killed by Assassins all the time and using that experience to escape the police.

Steven Moffat - Steven Moffat is the creator the popular British TV show Doctor Who which is about a guy called Doctor Who who turns into a new Doctor Who after dying just like the Sage. This is proof that the Sage decided to make some money off of his own life story and tweaked some details.

The Dalai Lama - do I need to explain this one?

Feel free to add your own theories. I look forward to forwarding them to the people in the office who read these.

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 09:03 AM
Sages can't be women. And them being famous 20th Century Cultural figures creates an issue with why Abstergo has to scratch their head and search for these figures. Of course a modern day Sage can wear coloured contact lenses I suppose to blend in.

Kuiperdolin
10-06-2015, 11:12 AM
All Sages have heterochromia but I don't think it's ever been stated all men with heterochromia are sages. If sages are order of magnitude rarer than mismatched eyes then it's not a good criterion for Abstergo.

Adolf Wölfli (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_W%C3%B6lfli) would be a good fit with what we've seen of them so far :
* violent and aloof
* hallucinations
* wrote some weird-*** book/notes
* facial hair

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Adolf_Woelfli.jpg
An eye clearer than the other ? Maaaayyyybe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/WolfiBandHainLarge.jpg/220px-WolfiBandHainLarge.jpg
Visions from the first civilization?

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 02:24 PM
I still wish that they'd had the foresight to give Cesare heterochromia. Not only is is a little addled like some sages, but it would absolutely give deeper meaning to his claim "No man can kill me!"

Otherwise, I looked up a list of people with heterochromia. Here are a few examples. Speculate away!

Robert Downey Jr.- Could his status as a sage explain his epic Cinderella-esque story of reversal of fortunes?

Christopher Walken- Maybe dat's why... he... talks like dat. He is so... hoo-man.

David Bowie- Actually, this would explain A LOT

Alexander the Great- Oh man... I think I know where AC needs to go next...

Wikipedia it... interesting how much of the list is compromised of actors. Perhaps the sages have infiltrated Hollywood, much like Abstergo has taken over the entertainment business. :p

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 03:19 PM
I still wish that they'd had the foresight to give Cesare heterochromia. Not only is is a little addled like some sages, but it would absolutely give deeper meaning to his claim "No man can kill me!"

Sages aren't crazy warlords like Cesare. Sages are people who are manipulative, who rule by charisma and intellect and who are above human weakness and goals like passion and simple ambition. They create texts (Kavanagh's Letters, Pirate Articles, Molay's Codex, Instruments of First Will), they also are outside the general Assassin Templar conflicts. Like Germain was an extremist Templar who took over and pushed the Templars in a new direction. Bartholomew Roberts in Black Flag rules his crew with those pirate articles. John from IT was a lot like that too except towards the end but then he came closer to bringing Juno back than any Sage before so that's understandable that he would flip out that way. Honestly the only pre-Black Flag character who could be a Sage is Al Mualim. He has a discoloured eye as well, so that could have been his former Sage heterochromia-mark, it's an incredibly easy retcon to do. And Al Mualim also plays the Templars-Assassins against each other and he likes to rule by charisma and intellect.

As Black Bart and Edward discuss:
Bart: Ah... all Men desire to live by a Code, or a Creed,yes? Yet when pressed, most defer to their instincts rather than the Laws that bind them.But what is the appeal of a creed if it does not yoke all men to like behaviour?"
Edward: "Might make a man feel like... he belongs to something. What's your answer?"
Bart: "Ah... that all Men are sheep. And that an old wolf like me deserves every ounce of blood he draws."

The idea of the Sage, being also a First-Civ ex-God is that human beings are inherently sheep who are incapable of being free, and that if they can't be controlled by apples they can be controlled by ideas. In Black Flag, the pirates chase gold and freedom and then Black Bart comes and becomes the most successful pirate by ruthless professional discipline, becoming a pirate-dictator. The Sage himself being a human being whose mind gradually loses to Aita represents that divide, between wanting to be man and then deferring to a higher power. In the case of Thom Kavanagh, he eventually kept his humanity but Black Bart and later John from IT surrendered to Aita.

UNITY criminally messed up this idea by making the Sage a Random Jeweller instead of Robespierre or De Sade, since both those historical figures are a better fit to this concept, that is whether humans are hardwired to follow rules or whether they can be free. But even then, by bringing in De Molay and his Codex, the basic idea of Sages ruling by ideology is there.

So the Sage can't really be any Hollywood actor or historical figure. There has to be a certain consistency to what we see. In any case within AC-verse, you can't have Sages be famous celebrities or actors, otherwise Abstergo would have gotten them by now. In SYNDICATE, the best fit for the Sage is Karl Marx, since Marx looks a good bit like De Molay and Black Bart's render already, and he's a man who certainly built an ideology that promised freedom but had the potential for greater control as well. Sages have to have that divide, that ambiguity.

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 03:28 PM
True, Germain was a pretty underwhelming Sage. And while I wouldn't say that all Sages are absolutely insane, their minds have certainly been affected by the process.

Taken from the AC Wiki:

After his mind was transferred into a machine and through to a human body, Aita's mind swiftly deteriorated; while his body would survive, his mind became brittle and catatonic. With enough will, he asked his wife to end his suffering, though she would spend the next months finding ways to help him.[1] She eventually devised a plan to add samples of Aita's genetic code into the human DNA that would eventually result in the births of children with Aita's genetic code.

Kavanagh wasn't able to make sense of the dual memories until he arrived at the Observatory years after he began experiencing them. Germain also experienced these visions as well. It is unknown if Roberts or John experienced similar confusion.

So I'm not so sure that your narrow definition of what a Sage can or cannot be is really applicable.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 04:04 PM
True, Germain was a pretty underwhelming Sage. And while I wouldn't say that all Sages are absolutely insane, their minds have certainly been affected by the process.

Well the Sages have the memories and personality of a God inside their human brains, so obviously it's not the same as a normal mind but that doesn't mean insane as much as it means beyond humanity. It's a mistake to think of Sages as being Human, they are vulnerably physically but they clearly are more than human in their perceptions and mental processes. It's like calling Juno crazy, there's no point because she's not human, to her Assassins are ciphers and we can't relate to how she perceives time and space at all.


Whereas Cesare Borgia is clearly quite human in his short-sighted petty ambitions, and he's basically a rich kid dolled up on Daddy's money. A Sage is a force of will, self-made men like Roberts, Germain and John from IT, push them out, persecute them and reduce them to nothing, and yet they will build themselves into a threat.


So I'm not so sure that your narrow definition of what a Sage can or cannot be is really applicable.

Well I am going by what Darby McDevitt, who created the Sage, said, wrote and portrayed in Black Flag.

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 04:09 PM
Well I am going by what Darby McDevitt, who created the Sage, said, wrote and portrayed in Black Flag.

That's fine (though, if you have a quote by him, I'd be interested in seeing it.)
I've provided textual canon-based evidence that there is certainly precedence to support my claim. Not really sure how you can continue to argue this point without doing the same.

Xstantin
10-06-2015, 06:36 PM
Alexander the Great
William Blake

I-Like-Pie45
10-06-2015, 06:41 PM
Sages can't be women. And them being famous 20th Century Cultural figures creates an issue with why Abstergo has to scratch their head and search for these figures. Of course a modern day Sage can wear coloured contact lenses I suppose to blend in.

if a man wants to be a woman, its fully within his right to do so, and only fools and bigots can deny his decision

it would be very transphobic of ubisoft to continue denying equal representation when the sages present such an opportunity to do so

Sorrosyss
10-06-2015, 09:00 PM
Interesting post Sir Pie. The thing is we are all assuming that Aita was the only one to try out the technology test back in the days of the First Civ. There could quite easily have been others.

I still like the theory that Minerva coerced Eve into doing the same process, as she would have seen the possible futures of Aita playing out, and needed some kind of counter to stop Juno. This would also give the whole 'lady eve' from Dead Kings some context.

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 09:15 PM
Interesting post Sir Pie. The thing is we are all assuming that Aita was the only one to try out the technology test back in the days of the First Civ. There could quite easily have been others.

I still like the theory that Minerva coerced Eve into doing the same process, as she would have seen the possible futures of Aita playing out, and needed some kind of counter to stop Juno. This would also give the whole 'lady eve' from Dead Kings some context.
Agreed, it's about time we get context for Eve in general, and this would be fantastic!

Sushiglutton
10-06-2015, 10:37 PM
Easy on the sugar Claus, or you may end up like Elvis!

I'm gonna go with al Baghdadi, seems like a guy scarily familar with the dark ages.

D.I.D.
10-07-2015, 12:43 AM
http://i.imgur.com/HXiYABh.jpg

I-Like-Pie45
10-07-2015, 12:54 AM
Josip Tito: Stalin kept sending guys to kill him but they never succeeded and Templars tired really hard to catch that Sage in Black Flag and Stalin was a Templar so he probably wanted to kill or catch him

Pho Pot: Pho Pot and the Gunga Din tried to make Vietnam more agricultural when they took it over and attempted to eradicate all the thinkers and smart peoples and stuff, and this can be interpreted as the Sage deciding that technology was what destroyed the First Civ because the Sun God Xenu who created the First Civ was punishing the world for its overuse of tech and this was his attempt to save the world from the second judgment