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View Full Version : Is this one for real ? Tank Question ?



tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-21-2004, 03:05 PM
Ok guys this one is for all you tank experts out there

I was recently viewing the Kubinka Tank Museum's Web site and came across this monster in their gallery. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/images/pav6-9.jpg

It was called a 'MAUS' and weighed 112 tons.

What I want to know is..Is the one on display there the real deal or a mock up? Not slinging any mud am simply curious As I have heard that none of these ever made it off the drawing board. Maybe someone has actually visited this museum ? Great looking collection either way.

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-21-2004, 03:05 PM
Ok guys this one is for all you tank experts out there

I was recently viewing the Kubinka Tank Museum's Web site and came across this monster in their gallery. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/images/pav6-9.jpg

It was called a 'MAUS' and weighed 112 tons.

What I want to know is..Is the one on display there the real deal or a mock up? Not slinging any mud am simply curious As I have heard that none of these ever made it off the drawing board. Maybe someone has actually visited this museum ? Great looking collection either way.

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

Shifty101
07-21-2004, 03:09 PM
I "think" that the MAUS along with other tank designs were prototypes, 1945 material.

http://www.geocities.com/agrill101/Sig.jpg.txt

meh_cd
07-21-2004, 03:09 PM
They made it off the drawing board, the main reason it wasn't built was its weight. There are also rumors that one or two actually fought the Russians when they arrived at the factory/whatever.

I'm sure someone has way more info.

Yellonet
07-21-2004, 03:10 PM
Don't know if that one is real or not.. the Maus was manufactured in very limited number (5?) so if it is real it should be worth some money.


- Yellonet

Shifty101
07-21-2004, 03:14 PM
Hmm it seems I can't edit my posts, that's odd. Anyways, I just wanted to suggest you go to www.jagdtiger.com (http://www.jagdtiger.de). Great site.

http://www.geocities.com/agrill101/Sig.jpg.txt

Bob the Pilot
07-21-2004, 03:22 PM
yes it's real, the soviets captured it.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-21-2004, 03:22 PM
Excellent work guys!! so it appears it was built from the 'remains' of around three.

Thanks for the quick response S!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

P.s Cheers Shifty the web site is very cool

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

purzel08
07-21-2004, 03:39 PM
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz7.htm#maus

greetings...

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-21-2004, 03:49 PM
Tanks a lot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif S!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

Zeus-cat
07-21-2004, 05:40 PM
I have several books that show the Maus. An old book by Schiffer shows many photos of the initial vehicle being tested. Albert Speer himself wanted to be the first to test the vehicle, but apparently a number of people at the factory took her out for a test run first.

Records are very sketchy, but experts believe two may have been built. Parts for three more were found at the factory. One or two may have fought against the Russians, but no one can confirm that.

One rumor says the name, Maus, was Hitler's idea. He thought calling it "mouse" would fool people. The vehicle was completly impractical.
Weight: 188 tons
Length: 9034mm (with gun)
Width: 3670mm
Height: 3630mm

Motor: V-12 Daimler-Benz
1080 HP
2 forward gears, 2 reverse
Track width: 1100mm
Armor: 200-240mm front, 180-200mm side and 160-200 rear
Armament: 128mm main gun, 75mm coaxial cannon (same as the Panther's main gun I believe), 1 MG34

Fuel 2700 liters + 1500 liter reserve tank mounted on rear deck.
Fuel consumption: 1400 liters per 100km on road. 3100 liters per 100km cross-country
Top speed: 20kph (maybe they could race the TB-3!!!)

1.31kp/square cm ground pressure

The model company, DML, makes a 1/35th scale kit of theis beast. I built it several years ago. I would rate the model as OK; mainly because there is little in the way of detail in the kit. Not much DML could do with it, as most pictures of it show no extras. Still, a nice addition if you like German armor.

Zeus-cat

llandaff
07-22-2004, 04:20 AM
I visited Kubinka museum last weekend. Maus is huge, but it isn't the tank I was impressed most with.

KUGELPANZER, the Pokemon Tank is awesome!!!

http://www.jagdtiger.de/index2.htm?http://www.jagdtiger.de/GermanTanks/Kugelpanzer-01.htm


Plaque said, that it this was a reconnaisanse tank, ACTUALLY USED IN BATTLE (but very rare).

I can't imagine anybody hopping inside this little beast and going into battle (reconnaisanse is a battle too)

GerritJ9
07-22-2004, 04:56 AM
I think there is also an incomplete Maus somewhere in Belarus- I remember reading about it in a German magazine years ago. Can anybody confirm this?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-22-2004, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
KUGELPANZER, the Pokemon Tank is awesome!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yikes Didnt see that one on the main site.Very impressive if a little insane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Actually there are almost enough wierd and unusual tanks there for a Forgotten tanks sim heheh

but I guess we will be waiting a while for that.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

ElektroFredrik
07-22-2004, 04:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zeus-cat:

One rumor says the name, Maus, was Hitler's idea. He thought calling it "mouse" would fool people.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've heard that too. They first planned to name
it "Mammoth" but thought that people would guess
it was big and come up with a defense.
So they named it "Mouse" to confuse/fool people.
Wasn't there a flak-Maus too? IIRC it was on the
drawing board and would have two 88mm guns in
the turret and maybe some sort of fire-control radar.

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oisink
07-22-2004, 04:04 PM
does anyone remember what those MASSIVE rail guns that the germans used on the eastern front were called? I think there was only two built, vaguely remember reading about it as a kid

Ois√¬*n

"N√¬*l sa saol ach gaoth is toit"

VOL_Hans
07-22-2004, 04:21 PM
Wasnt one of em called "Karl Gustav" or something like that?

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

Xiolablu3
07-22-2004, 05:11 PM
It isnt a Tank, its a self proppelled gun. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
07-22-2004, 05:27 PM
wasnt it designed by the guy who started porche?

i think it was hitlers idea for a stupidly big tanker.
Fuel 2700 liters + 1500 liter reserve tank mounted on rear deck.

could handly move all the fuel german had at one time tho

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&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

VOL_Hans
07-22-2004, 05:55 PM
Nope, not an SPG...Just some dumb@$$ idea for a "Land Cruiser"...

Germany had found the answer to the western front forces tanks with the PanzerIV series tanks. Mass production of PanzerIVH's or J's would have done it... The StuG-III/StuG-IV and Hetzer projects were also nice for west front action...

The answer to the Eastern front was available in the form of the StuG and Hetzer series to some extent, but mainly the Panther tank. The TigerI was also decent, the Tiger II was overkill...

TigerI's with the TigerII's L/70 88mm would have been fine for heavy tanks, with PantherG's, and maybe later the F with the "Schmallturm" and 88mm gun, mass produced for use as the MBT.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

Zeus-cat
07-22-2004, 07:30 PM
I agree with VOL_Hans, The Mark IVs and Panthers in sufficient numbers would have been the best course for Germany.

The Tiger I's were simply too expensive and took forever to build. The Tiger II's took a bad situation and made it worse. The Maus and E100 were stupid ideas that should have never even made it to the draweing board, much less had prototypes built.

The Tigers were beautiful tanks, but there was no chance they would help Germany in the long run due to their expense and complexity. Like the V-2 and the He-162 they pulled much needed resources away from weapon systems that really would have helped germany win battles.

Zeus-cat

icrash
07-22-2004, 07:31 PM
I think one of the railguns was Karl Gustav. I know the Allies tagged one as Anzio Annie but can't remember what its actual name was.

http://img38.photobucket.com/albums/v117/icrash/txraidersig.bmp

WTE_Galway
07-22-2004, 09:22 PM
The porsche company was heavily involved in the design of both the Tiger and the Panther.

It should be noted Porsche (and Henchel) designed the engines, transmissions and chassis, the turrent and armament was the responibility of Krupp.

james8325
07-22-2004, 09:27 PM
if u think thats big, u should look into the p1000 and p1500 ratte. 1000 and 1500 ton tanks. the p1000 was a huge tank, with 2 280mm guns, 1 128mm gun, 8 20mm guns, and 2 15mm mgs. the p1500 was basically a 80cm gun on tracks with 2 150mm artillery pieces. niether of these tanks ever got past the drawing boards though.

p 1000

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/p1000.htm
http://www.panzerschreck.de/panzer/pzkpfw/bilder/p1000.jpg
http://www.gfxartist.com/community/member_galleries/artworks/52622

p 1500

http://members.tripod.com/~fingolfen/superheavy/p1500.gif

warweapon2
07-22-2004, 10:59 PM
Now we know where car companies got the idea for the SUV.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif lol

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-22-2004, 11:50 PM
Wow those guys really did go off the deep end towards the end of the war didnt they. Great info all the same. I think a sim with some of these 'what if' behemoths would almost tempt me outta the cockpit and into the field.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-24-2004, 05:42 AM
Is anyone out there developing a ww2 tank/spg simulator ?? I know its a pretty niche market but I for one would be interested. Just curious?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

bazzaah2
07-24-2004, 07:08 AM
well it might be fun if that could be modelled, if only to provide some target practice for the tankbusting .50s http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

But wow, a 1000 ton tank! Weird - and there was me thinking that the Nazis didn't encourage drug taking.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-26-2004, 09:40 AM
hmm I wonder how hard it would be to add a driveable tank to this game? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

bazzaah2
07-26-2004, 09:45 AM
can't imagine the FM would require much work, lol.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

1.JaVA_Razer
07-26-2004, 09:56 AM
Man,that thing just eats his gasoline like it's water to us.... 1400L/100 km??? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif

thats insane.... topspeed 20KM/H ,lol, very fast indeed.... but I still wouldn't wanna come near one of those with a sherman or something
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

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VOL_Hans
07-26-2004, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
The Tiger I's were simply too expensive and took forever to build. The Tiger II's took a bad situation and made it worse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly! But, the Tiger-I tank was off the line before the Panther tank. So i'm saying that instead of makeing the Tiger-II, they should have up-gunned the existing Tiger-I's with the Tiger-II's harder hitting 88mm.

Then, cut off Tiger production for Panthers to go east, Panzer IV's to go west. Hetzer and StuG tanks for both fronts.

The Panzer III was a great tank, a little old by '42, but it's even better when you convert it to a StuG-III. The StuH-42 was like a StuG-III, but with a 105mm howitzer for soft targets.

The StuG-IV was also exelent, but it uses Panzer IV hulls... Like the Jagedpanther and Jagedpanzer IV [Based on Panther and Panzer IV respectively] the tank hulls used were still up to date and deadly in thier normal configuration with a turret!

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

Airborn_
07-26-2004, 10:28 AM
Well I recon that Kugelpanzer would have made a great ride when going down a steep hill

And if those Rats had ever made it off the drawing board a situation like this might have occurred one day:

Tank-Commander in the field: "So, what's the opposition like today?"

Tank-Gunner: "Er.. a lot of Rats and Mice today sir.."

Commander: "Come again??" *

* Insert appropriate smiley here, they don't seem to be working today

[This message was edited by Airborn_ on Mon July 26 2004 at 09:40 AM.]

Ob.Emann
07-26-2004, 01:17 PM
Christ, that thing would blow a Ford Excursion right off the parking lot (literally). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Actually, I've heard the Maus was intended for the Western Front, to be used as a "mobile gun emplacement", possibly used in conjuncton with artillary, as a purely defensive weapon.

Der Oberst von schlechten Piloten

bazzaah2
07-26-2004, 01:32 PM
wacky stuff, but worth remembering that the Jagdtiger (I think) had some infrared sighting equipment that wasn't bettered till the mid 60s, iirc.

But what were they thinking, given that Tiger II was severly constrained by its weight? Maybe they'd have another even bigger lifting vehicle http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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BfHeFwMe
07-26-2004, 02:56 PM
If they could have ever deployed it. The infrastructure was pretty much in ruins, bridges hadn't been properly maintained. Would you have volunteered to drive it across one? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

bazzaah2
07-26-2004, 04:13 PM
nope! most brodges werent designed for that kind of weight, making even the Jagdtiger completely impracticable as a fighting machine, let alone a 1000 ton acid trip induced hunk of insanity.

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Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Xiolablu3
07-26-2004, 07:36 PM
I thought that the Tiger 1 DID have an 88mm gun on it??

Its all very well with hindsight to pick and choose the great designs like the Me 262 and the Panther now, but the fact is that without the experimentation and the failed designs, the great ones wouldnt have appeared either.

The reason that germany developed some fantastic weaponary is because it was so willing to rewrite the rule book and experiment.

Not every design is a success...

civildog
07-26-2004, 07:45 PM
The Tiger 1 did have an 88mm on it, but it was a slightly shorter, older version that didn't produce the velocity and accuracy of the one on the Tiger II. It was still a proven design that could easily destroy any tank in the Western Allied arsenals. Though the M26 Pershing gave it a run for the money.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

I often think the whole world is out to get me, but then I remember that some of the smaller nations are neutral.

58th AVG "WannaBees" ...We fly where the angels fear to tread!

civildog
07-26-2004, 07:54 PM
Bazzaah2...BTW: ithe Passive IR gear was mounted on Panther G's with the projectors mounted on halftracks. They were first used at the battle of the Seelow Heights. They even had a smaller version mounted on the STG44 autorifles the SS were getting by then. These guys rode on the backs of the "Uhu" equipped Panthers to pretect them form Red Army tank hunters in the dark.

The Soviets used massive searchlights to blind the direct fire artillery the Germans had on the heights as their assault troops ran across the valley to attack the Hun. As a result the Uhu gear produced less than impressive results.

Still, it's interesting to note the stuff developed by the Germans right up until the end.

A huge killer tank that was a variant of the Maus was the design for a twin 88 Flak turret mounted on a Maus chassis for AA work around the V-weapons sites and factories. Now that would've been something to see from the cockpit of your Thunderbolt!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

I often think the whole world is out to get me, but then I remember that some of the smaller nations are neutral.

58th AVG "WannaBees" ...We fly where the angels fear to tread!

Zeus-cat
07-26-2004, 07:57 PM
Xiolablu3,

I think it is fair to trash the Germans for designing the Tiger, specifically the King Tiger. The Germans simply didn't have the resources to squander.

The Tiger I was a decent tank, but the Germans built less than 1,500 of them during the entire war. Less than 500 King Tigers were built. Great tanks - yes, but look at the drawbacks:
1) Very expensive to build
2) Required far more time to build than a Mark III or IV.
3) Used more scarce materials than a Mark III or IV. (The Germans eventually fielded both Tiger I's and II's without rubber road wheels due to a lack of rubber)
4) The Tiger's interwoven road wheel design was a nightmare to maintain.
5) Their weight taxed their engines and caused many failures.
6) They required a lot of maintenance
7) The Tiger's had to have special tracks to be moved by train as the standard tracks were too wide.

The Germans knew all this when they were building them. While the Germans were building less than 2,000 suoer tanks, the US built 40,000 to 50,000 Shermans and the Russians built a similar number of T-34s.


Zeus-cat

VOL_Hans
07-26-2004, 09:17 PM
Panthers of all seried [D,A,G in order] were fitted with IR gear. The tank had receivers, and small IR searchlights. It took an Sd.Kfz-251 with a larger light to really make it work.

The JagedPanther may have also been used with passive IR, but that is unconfirmed.

As for the 88mm's on the tanks. The Tiger-I had an 88mm KwK 36 L/56. The Tiger-II had a longer barrel 88mm KwK 43 L/71.

Nearly double the penetration power IIRC...

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg