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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:37 AM
Hello /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Can anyone tell me any online help with "Defensive Tactics"?
If there is a one specifically for FB (where maybe it has guidelines for each plane) I would appreciate it much /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Thanks anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:37 AM
Hello /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Can anyone tell me any online help with "Defensive Tactics"?
If there is a one specifically for FB (where maybe it has guidelines for each plane) I would appreciate it much /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Thanks anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:00 AM
You have to be more specific. Plus listing specs, and tactics for every aircraft in FB would take several pages.
So here's one...

BF-109's - Stay high and fast. Learn to boom, and zoom. Never turn fight as everything out turns you. Even when the angles are good you'll end up with one shot and then you have no speed. It's hard to control the turning urge though. You dive in and they break one way or the other. You turn hard after them, and she really turns nice. It feels good as your coming around untill about 6 seconds later when you realise you precious airspeed is gone.

I've been playing the VEF and I must say the main reason the Germans are doing so poorly overall is a lack of proper Boom and Zoom tactics. I've just had to boom and zoom way too many I-16's off my wingmens tails. There's no sane reason to turn fight in a 109 especially against an I-16.

When you make a big mistake, and find yourself in trouble. Run! Don't try to turn your way out of it. Just used spins, and unpredictable banks and run. Once you have some distance between you start to climb away.

Run 90% power, and the radiator closed. It's all the power you should need, and anything more just makes you overheat.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:24 AM
Your first interest should be stopping your opponent from shooting at you, then you think about making sure they won't be able to get back into position. Tactics on how to do this depend on the plane and your opponent.

If you're faster, nose down a little and push yourself up to top speed, then make a gentle climb that lets you hold that speed. All you need to do is hold your top speed until they get bored, then convert to altitude and come back.

If you have better power/weight (I16, Yak-3, La5), you can probably hold a steeper climb than your opponent, which will stuff them up if they're trying to follow you exactly. However, if you lose too much speed, and they're too close you simply turn into a target hanging in the air - especially for a FW-190!

In some cases, you can just make sharp turns and hope they try to follow - but any good pilot will just gain altitude and wait for their chance.

If you're flying a P47, 190 or 109, you can dive faster than soviet planes, but then they can just hold altitude advantage and hence initiative - it's purely defensive.

The best defence is to be somewhere you can't be attacked though - above and behind your opponent! If you have altitude, you have the initiative and can dictate the terms of the fight.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:48 AM
Well, I've been using these tactics that you already mention. Especially in VEF I run all the times far from the damn I16's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But, I would like to know more about "defensive moves" such as the "split s". And if anyone has enough experience he may tell what would he think as the best defensive tactic on specific planes against the other country's planes (I mean that I don't care about BF vs FW rather than BF vs Yak for example or how would you defend yourself with an F2 from Mig3ud if he's found on your 6').

I hope I made it more clear now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 12:09 PM
To Split S, you just invert and do a half loop. Cut the throttle first, or you may auger in. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif When your nose is toward the ground, feel free to roll a bit so you come out pointing a different direction - ideally you want to confuse your opponent while they're putting on speed, so they end up below you or facing a different direction. The whole point is to get them to lose you, or to panic and give up the chase. You can start a split-s at higher speeds in german planes, as you won't fall apart so easily.

F2 vs MiG-3ud is an interesting contest. The F2 turns better, and won't stall out at lower speeds. The MiG is very stable at high speed, and can perform beautiful high speed turns. The MiG can sit on WEP for much longer than the F2.

Generally, you just invert your normal LW tactics, you make sharp turns, keep your speed up, and try to get angles on him.

The worst early campaign missions for the LW I think are where you have to fight Bf-109E/F vs I-16s and MiGs at the same time - the I-16s can out turn you if you try to angle fight the MiGs, and the MiGs can out run you if you try to energy fight the I-16s, so you have a situation where you are better than both planes, but in different and conflicting ways!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 12:34 PM
Bnej_03 wrote:
- a) F2 vs MiG-3ud is an interesting contest. The F2
- turns better, and won't stall out at lower speeds.
- The MiG is very stable at high speed, and can
- perform beautiful high speed turns. The MiG can sit
- on WEP for much longer than the F2.
-
- b) The worst early campaign missions for the LW I think
- are where you have to fight Bf-109E/F vs I-16s and
- MiGs at the same time - the I-16s can out turn you
- if you try to angle fight the MiGs, and the MiGs can
- out run you if you try to energy fight the I-16s, so
- you have a situation where you are better than both
- planes, but in different and conflicting ways!
-

a) Though F2 is supposed to turn better why do they outturn me all the time? And I'm not an amateur, I pretty know how to turn well.

b) I agree! It's a pretty messy situation, mostly cause you have to face this green plasma guns of I16. I really dislike this tactic that they shoot from more than 500m just with the hope to get you with a single bullet which can seriously damage your plane. If I shoot from that away with my F2 and hit them with 50 bullets, I will only take their paint out /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 12:38 PM
I never use WEP or over 90% throttle in the 109. Always 90% and the rad closed. It's faster at 90% throttle with the rads closed than at 110% throttle, and the radiator open. Also it won't overheat, and should you need a little more you can throttle to 110% for a moment and then pull it back.

When I dive away from Russian planes I just keep on going once I level out. Your right they have the altitude advantage however they will never catch you. When trimmed out in a F2 at 90% throttle radiator closed I come out of a dive at around 700. I level out, and it'll take several minutes before I slow down to 500, and then longer before I fall below that. In level flight the russian planes are slower, and since they can't dive as fast they just have to sigh and watch me leave.

Turn fighting Mig's can work but is tricky. It works best at either above 4500 or below 2000. Between there they're in their envelope as they were designed for bomber interception. I tend to still BnZ them though as though they are fast they still cannot climb with my 109. Even without using WEP if done right. Plus it only takes 1 good BnZ pass and they're done. Mig's are flying fireballs and they don't take much to start burning. A few MG rounds, and a marshmellow (F2 cannon) round will do them in.
Of course when against Mig's when I BnZ instead of going vertical after the dive I go into a good climb. It helps spread the distance between us and give me altitude. Those Svhak MG's on the Mig's are deadly to 109's. Many times they will pull vertical into a stall to get a shot.

True about going against I-16's vs Mig's though it's a furball for sure. Typically I try to stay high and focus on the Mig's. I'll be above 3500 feet anyway if Mig's are around. Up there I-16's don't pose much threat, and are crazy to try to mess with you.

If a Mig gets on my 6 I'll dive, and BnZ a I-16. Except the Mig can't follow so after I spray the I-16 I'll level out and make a high speed run. Then I'll pull and immelman and go head on with the Mig. It's a dangerous move, but 109's carry a good ammount of MG ammo. I'll open up as soon as I'm on him from 800+ meters. Firing short bursts keeps him zigging so he can't get a shot. Then as the range closes I open up cannon, and all. Shoot a tight barrel roll as by then he'll be shooting back. Nobody can hit you in a barrel roll. Or at least I haven't been hit pulling one yet. At the closure poit after the roll I roll inverted before he goes by. As soon as he does I'll roll back right side up, and climb. Typically they'll do the same or sometimes they may come down and around looking for you. By the time they see you again they realise what has happened, and can but cringe. It's a rash move I know but's it's never failed to pay off. I either get them in the head on or shake them afterwards.



Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 02:28 PM
Zen_Fighter wrote:
-
- a) Though F2 is supposed to turn better why do they
- outturn me all the time? And I'm not an amateur, I
- pretty know how to turn well.
-

The MiG turns better at high speed, the F2 better at low speed. When I'm flying a MiG, I always make gentle turns above my opponent until I'm flying parallel, then dive for speed to land behind them. While fast, I keep on their 6 while closing & firing, then climb again. I'll take a shot at a slow 109, but I won't slow down if I miss.

The MiG relys on never getting hit just as much as the 109 - one bullet often starts the engine smoking, makes fuel leaks, sets fire to the plane very easily. That's another good reason to stay fast in the MiG.

Flying the F2, I try to force the MiG into tight rather than fast turns, try to make him bleed off his energy. If the MiG slows down, it turns into a duck. I use a slower Split-S to escape usually, since he'll have a larger turning circle the MiG will tend to end up at lower altitude with more speed, and then you can dive on him.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:56 PM
good to read all this information

now see my Idea.


I agree with Hopperfly22 to apply 109 with energy tactic

I can classify defensive situation with 2 type

You are Energy High and Angle Poor
----------------------------------
this situation show that your opponent(i-16) is on your 6 at 700 meter and
he is in lag pursuit ( your speed is over 450) what you will do ?
A. break turn back to him ( I see unexperience 109 do like this )
B. turn fat and gradually climb push up more altitude of vertical separation.
C. remain level and turning.



You are Energy Low and Angle Poor
----------------------------------
this situation show that your opponent(i-16) is on your 6 at 300 meter and
he is in lead pursuit ( your speed is below 450) what you will do ?

A. Split S + emergency escape ( if altitude over 3000 close radiator, full power , drive with barrel roll)
B. break and Horizontal Scissors
C. remain level and turning.


but I can say that you will get shot down if you met a good pilothttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

the bast way don't put your self to defensive position, 109 is not good dogfight
109 is good for hit and run or high speed attack don't play turning tactic with all
red plane or I can say that 109 is not good for defensive tactic.



If your improve your skill for S.A. ( situation awareness or six sense ) you will
never put your self on bad a situation but will stay on advantage situation.




S!