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Wannabe-Pilot
08-13-2004, 01:54 PM
Hi I'm back from holidays and eager to see what happened while I was gone (patch-wise, PF)...

I've been wondering about the following for a while now and after 8 months of playing IL-2 I feel competent enough to ask the following.

Why is it that the Fw-190 is such a great fighter when pitted against Western planes (especially American), yet performs so miserably against the Russians? Before you say 'it's the pilot not the plane' keep in mind that it's the same pilot in both instances, me. In other words, when I fly against the Western planes I have no problems whatsoever. P-47s and P-38 are just meat on the table, P-51 a bit more challenging but still fairly easy to bring down, and I usually have 3-4 kills per mission. Spitfires are a bit more difficult but the Vs are too slow and also easy to kill. The IXs on the other hand are the most difficult western planes to bring down. They are just as fast and turn beautifully.
Also, I've read an interview with a former WW2 Russian fighter pilot, an ace with 7 kills and a dozen or so 'joint' kills (forgot his name, maybe somebody can remember, it was an interview somebody found on the net, the guy used to fly the Aircobras), so he knows his stuff. He claims that they (VVS pilots) njever had a high regard for the Focke Wulf and considered it an average fighter plane, worse than the 109.
Has anybody else experienced this? Or is it just me?
Bear in mind that this is not yet another 'Focke Wulf sucks, Oleg hates LW planes' thread. Just looking for some historical perspective. I have no major complaints, only that it perhaps shakes a bit too much even at +450 kph...and overheats too often.

Allright on to my second question...
What's the deal with the A8? As everybody knows this was the most numerous variant of the Fw-190, yet it falls behind the earlier variants (A5, A6 and A7) as a pure fighter (at least that's the impression I get, it is slower and heavier). Does it have some hidden strenghts I don't know about or was it just a case of 'one plane for every mission' late war syndromke? Was its performance in real life differnet than what we have ingame? What did LW pilots think of it, did they like it better or worse than other Anton variants?

Just started reading JG 26 - Top guns of the Luftwaffe by Caldwell. Great book I'd recommend it to everyone. One thing confuses me though. The top speed of various LW planes listed in the book differs from the top speed ingame, it is usually lower. For example, Fw-190 A5 top speed is given at around 650 kph, while ingame it is 670 kph. 109 G-6 according to the book maxes out at about 620 kph, while ingame its 640 kph. 109 G-14 650 in the book, ingame 665 kph... And this book is very well written and highly credible. Its not just this book, other references I found, both in various book and online usually give lower speeds for LW planes than ingame. So who is right, Oleg or Caldwell? Can anybody post some accurate performance numbers if those ingame are wrong? A link to a good accurate site would be great...

Wannabe-Pilot
08-13-2004, 01:54 PM
Hi I'm back from holidays and eager to see what happened while I was gone (patch-wise, PF)...

I've been wondering about the following for a while now and after 8 months of playing IL-2 I feel competent enough to ask the following.

Why is it that the Fw-190 is such a great fighter when pitted against Western planes (especially American), yet performs so miserably against the Russians? Before you say 'it's the pilot not the plane' keep in mind that it's the same pilot in both instances, me. In other words, when I fly against the Western planes I have no problems whatsoever. P-47s and P-38 are just meat on the table, P-51 a bit more challenging but still fairly easy to bring down, and I usually have 3-4 kills per mission. Spitfires are a bit more difficult but the Vs are too slow and also easy to kill. The IXs on the other hand are the most difficult western planes to bring down. They are just as fast and turn beautifully.
Also, I've read an interview with a former WW2 Russian fighter pilot, an ace with 7 kills and a dozen or so 'joint' kills (forgot his name, maybe somebody can remember, it was an interview somebody found on the net, the guy used to fly the Aircobras), so he knows his stuff. He claims that they (VVS pilots) njever had a high regard for the Focke Wulf and considered it an average fighter plane, worse than the 109.
Has anybody else experienced this? Or is it just me?
Bear in mind that this is not yet another 'Focke Wulf sucks, Oleg hates LW planes' thread. Just looking for some historical perspective. I have no major complaints, only that it perhaps shakes a bit too much even at +450 kph...and overheats too often.

Allright on to my second question...
What's the deal with the A8? As everybody knows this was the most numerous variant of the Fw-190, yet it falls behind the earlier variants (A5, A6 and A7) as a pure fighter (at least that's the impression I get, it is slower and heavier). Does it have some hidden strenghts I don't know about or was it just a case of 'one plane for every mission' late war syndromke? Was its performance in real life differnet than what we have ingame? What did LW pilots think of it, did they like it better or worse than other Anton variants?

Just started reading JG 26 - Top guns of the Luftwaffe by Caldwell. Great book I'd recommend it to everyone. One thing confuses me though. The top speed of various LW planes listed in the book differs from the top speed ingame, it is usually lower. For example, Fw-190 A5 top speed is given at around 650 kph, while ingame it is 670 kph. 109 G-6 according to the book maxes out at about 620 kph, while ingame its 640 kph. 109 G-14 650 in the book, ingame 665 kph... And this book is very well written and highly credible. Its not just this book, other references I found, both in various book and online usually give lower speeds for LW planes than ingame. So who is right, Oleg or Caldwell? Can anybody post some accurate performance numbers if those ingame are wrong? A link to a good accurate site would be great...

p1ngu666
08-13-2004, 02:07 PM
A8 is faster, i think if u can wait for ages
a6 is my prefered A series http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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faustnik
08-13-2004, 02:12 PM
The A8 is faster only with WEP enabled. I'm with p1ngu666, the Fw190A6 is the sweetest Wulf. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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OldMan____
08-13-2004, 02:40 PM
I prefer A4 and later D9-1945.


A4 at 110% has same HP as A5 with WEP

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Indianer.
08-13-2004, 04:18 PM
I prefer A4, although if u BnZ it doesn't really matter which one u use, the one with the potential do do maximum damage i suppose.

The BF110 is an even stranger plane, u wanna try that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~S~ Indi

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lbhskier37
08-13-2004, 04:28 PM
I actually think the russian birds are easier adversarys for a FW than the western planes. The western planes can BnZ and often do, so you aren't always at the advantage. In addition you cant always get one pass kills on western planes like you can against the paper russian planes.

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Wannabe-Pilot
08-13-2004, 04:58 PM
No they are too nimble. Yaks for example. They are like Spits on steroids. Too small and jerky to hit, especially with poor forward visibility. Can't turn with them to acquire a good firing solutions since every single one can outturn your Focke Wulf by a wide margin. It all comes down to fast attacks from above which are almost too fast for a proper burst to be fired.

Western, American planes, on the other hand, I can stay with in turns and dives. P-47s for example, I can outturn, even outrun. Since they are so huge they make an easy target. And if somebody gets on my six, I disappear in a blink of an eye - roll left, roll right, split-S and goodbye...

Spinnetti
08-13-2004, 08:53 PM
I fly the 190A5 almost exclusively (too stuck on it to change to the better armed A6), and I find the same thing. American planes, especially the P38 and P51 are SUPER easy to shoot down (I like to do 4 of them vs. one of me, on ace, full difficulity)... The P47 is a lot harder to bring down, but the Russian planes are a LOT harder to fight. Oddly enought the KI87 or whatever its called (Japanese) seems to be a much better match for them.

mortoma
08-13-2004, 10:47 PM
I too find the Yank planes easier to fight against. I think it's because you are matching a poor turner with other poor turners. The Mustang can out turn a FW but not by spades, so you have a chance. The P-38s and Jugs are about the same as the FWs in turning. Few of the Russian planes are poor turners except the Mig-3s and the I-185 of course, which has only a moderate turning ability and is not very agile. I do well in 190s against the I-185. But against most Russian birds, you have to employ careful energy fighting or hit and run and/or team tactics. To do anything else is futile, since they can fly circles around you. Most of the good online FW flyers learned strict "BnZ only" in the IL2 days when you really only had Russian planes to fly against. But the FW becomes an effective turn fighter against adversaries that can turn no better or only marginally better. Few people seem to realize this and you still hear people say that the FW is ONLY a BnZ plane. But why would anyone in a FW need to Bnz a Jug?? Especially a lone Jug. It's a tactic not needed in that case.

Fw-190D-9
08-14-2004, 12:31 AM
I fly the A-6 and D-9 45. To tell ya the truth, I have more trouble with Mustangs then any other fighter really.

Wannabe-Pilot
08-14-2004, 04:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
I too find the Yank planes easier to fight against. I think it's because you are matching a poor turner with other poor turners. The Mustang can out turn a FW but not by spades, so you have a chance. The P-38s and Jugs are about the same as the FWs in turning. Few of the Russian planes are poor turners except the Mig-3s and the I-185 of course, which has only a moderate turning ability and is not very agile. I do well in 190s against the I-185. But against most Russian birds, you have to employ careful energy fighting or hit and run and/or team tactics. To do anything else is futile, since they can fly circles around you. Most of the good online FW flyers learned strict "BnZ only" in the IL2 days when you really only had Russian planes to fly against. But the FW becomes an effective turn fighter against adversaries that can turn no better or only marginally better. Few people seem to realize this and you still hear people say that the FW is ONLY a BnZ plane. But why would anyone in a FW need to Bnz a Jug?? Especially a lone Jug. It's a tactic not needed in that case.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely. With Western planes you have a choice of how to fight. Their fighters are completely within a Focke Wulf flight envelope. You can turn, dive, roll etc. with relative security always choosing the best option available according to the plane you are opposing at the moment. In short, a good Fw pilot will own a Jug or a Lightning at low to medium altitudes and be even with a Mustang.

With a good turner it is different however. You can only BnZ it, however, BnZ requires a high speed pass 450-500 kph. At such speeds you really need to be a good shot. And its bloody difficult to see let alone hit anything with that huge snout in front of you. Deflection shooting is near impossible.

In this respect Spits are similar to VVS planes so that is why they are more difficult to bring down than the Yanks (what about tempest, as I understand it it was very similar in flight performance to the Fw, rolls just as fast, runs faster, turns a bit better?).

One great thing about the Focke Wulf is that you can always escape. It can be difficult to actually get on somebody's six and blast him away, especially against good turners, but you can always escape. Interestingly, the most escape options a Focke Wulf pilot will have when opposing VVS planes. One can either dive (not a good idea against the Yanks), roll him to death, or roll left-right and split S, or simply run away. Again, similar to the Spits.

I was just wondering whether this was the case in real life as well or is it just a IL-2 quirk.
It must have been similar in RL. Fw-190 was always a quite rare plane in the east in JagdGeshweders (not counting the Schlaht arm). In the west however, by mid '42 all six JagdGruppen were equiped with the Fw-190.


Any replies to the two other questions I posted? Anybody?

Red_Storm
08-14-2004, 04:45 AM
Untrue. As of the latest patch me and my squad find it much, much easier fighting La-7's and Yak-3's than American planes. Oleg finally seemed to have toned down the Russian planes to a believable level. The P-51, on the other hand, is like the 'uber-rocket' now. It turns with an La-7, the power of the .50's rivals that of the MG-151/20's and it's faster and climbs better that a Dora. Teamwork is essential if you meet one online. The thing is, a few patches before this one the P-51 was a plane that required a certain ammount of skill to fly, sure it wasn't the hardest plane to fly in-game, but now everyone flies it. I used to enjoy taking a ride in it, but not now. Flying it (IMHO and that of everyone else I've met online) means you're more or less skill-less. Sort of like the La-5FN and La-7 were ages ago. But hey, it's what the fanboys wanted. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---

TheGozr
08-14-2004, 04:48 AM
For me the easyest plane to shoot down of this cathegory are the P51's. the harder is the D9's for a Yak perspective.
It is easy to loose a D9's out of site on climb and dives and hard to ovoid their B.Z but the P51 is a so good target practice.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Of course if the d9 lost his energy and stay at an altitude lower than 3200 he is dead meet.

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wojtek_m
08-14-2004, 08:36 AM
P51 turning with an La7??? Come on...

lbhskier37
08-14-2004, 09:21 AM
Offline the american planes are way easier to fight against in a FW than online. Online people actually know how to use them. Russian planes online are usually easier to me because they are always down low with their sticks pulled all the way back. Yaks are slow, easy to escape and get in a better position. The La is fast, but it doesnt handle good at high speed so you can easily lose it in diving manuevers. With american planes you can't run from them, and its really hard to dive and maneuver away because they can pull just as hard of turns at high speeds.

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