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Abelzorus-Prime
09-07-2015, 09:28 PM
Personally, I think Victorian Britain is nearly as rich as Renaissance Italy in terms of historical figures with people such as Charles Darwin, Charles ****ens, Karl Marx, etc. I hope they really exploit the opportunity they have to introduce these characters in a engaging and interesting way. I have taken the liberty to construct my own list of possible allies and how I think these historical figures could play out in Assassin's Creed Syndicate.

Karl Marx

"When you steal from the rich it's criminal, but stealing from the poor, that's capitalism" - Jacob Frye
http://spartacus-educational.com/00marx.jpg


Karl Marx was a philosopher, economist, sociologist, journalist, and revolutionary socialist. Born in Germany, he moved to London in 1849 where he spent the rest of his life. He published numerous books during his lifetime, such as The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital. His social and economical views have also influenced many communist and socialist regimes in the past.

Marx's views on capitalism and the class system would make him an obvious supporter of Jacob's struggle to empower the working women and men against the Templar bourgeoisie. Marx could even be a member of the Assassins himself, similar to the the way Niccolo Machiavelli was during the Renaissance, and could possibly influence Jacob's thoughts on the social economical state of London during the Victorian era. The same way Evie seemed to admire Charles ****ens could be the same way Jacob thinks of Karl Marx.

Lewis Carroll

"But I don't want to go among mad people," said Alice. "Oh, you can't help that," said the cat. "We're all mad here."
http://media-1.web.britannica.com/eb-media/34/19534-004-FB384A32.jpg


Lewis Carroll was an English writer, mathematician, logician, Anglican deacon, and photographer. He's most notably the author of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and its sequel Through the Looking-Glass. He is noted for his facility at word play, logic, and fantasy.

Carroll's work on Alice in Wonderland could be an indication that he has a connection with the First Civilization. I don't think he had heterochromia, but I still think it's a possibility that he may have been a Sage. Alice in Wonderland could have just been a fictionalized interpretation of events which Aita experienced, or perhaps he felt like Alice falling into the rabbit hole as he was being bombarded with memories of a distant world.

It's possible that he obtained the Apple of Eden#2 which may have showed him images of the First Civilization era, the Apple could also be the reason for his inventions and mathematical genius. This leads me to believe that we would see Mr Carroll through Evie's memories rather than Jacob.

Florence Nightingale

"The world is put back by the death of every one who has to sacrifice the development of his or her peculiar gifts to conventionality."

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Florence_Nightingale.png

Florence Nightingale was a celebrated English social reformer and statistician, and the founder of modern nursing. She came to prominence while serving as a manager of nurses trained by her during the Crimean War, where she organised the tending to wounded soldiers. She gave nursing a highly favourable reputation and became an icon of Victorian culture, especially in the persona of "The Lady with the Lamp" making rounds of wounded soldiers at night.

Nightingale as an Assassin or associate would be interesting as we could do several missions with/for her in which we help poor injured civilians, and have to find perpetrator because the police are not concerned with working class deaths.

Nightingale as a pioneer in modern nursing could suggest that she was in contact with the Shroud of Eden, and could have used its power to aid soldiers during the Crimean War. Perhaps the Shroud revealed to her some of its secrets which allowed her to establish her role as the founder of modern nursing.

Honorable Mentions:

Conan Doyle - A Scottish physician who was best known as the author of the Sherlock Holmes detective stories. (Possibly a scene with Conan and Clara in which she makes him steal an Apple)

John Stuart Mill - Utilitarian philosopher and supporter of radical / liberal politics and the emancipation of women. (Potential Assassin or associate)

Millicent Fawcett - British Suffragist who campaigned (through non-violence) for women to have the vote and to improve women’s access to higher education (Potential Assassin or associate)

VestigialLlama4
09-07-2015, 10:08 PM
Marx I think will definitely be in the game though I am very sure he won't be an Assassin. By the way Das Kapital Part 1 was published in 1867, one year before 1868, the setting of the game. I think Marx would be the Sage of the game, it fits in the pattern of the previous sages being visionaries who try and bring changes by forming a new text and code. Like Black Bart and his articles, Jacques de Molay and Germain and their Codex, and John from IT with his Instruments. Marx fits right in, the prophet of the Industrial age.

Arthur Conan Doyle is doubtful - The game is set in 1868 and Doyle was born in 1859. Maybe they'll add a cutesie cameo.

Among others Charles Bradlaugh and Annie Besant might be there. They were under trial for sedition in 1868. Bradlaugh was one of the few openly atheist MPs and one of the very few to call for Indian Independence, (the young Gandhi attended his funeral when he was studying in England). Annie Besant later went to India herself and agitated alongside Indian freedom fighters and was considered part of the Indian struggle. You have Henry Green who's Indian and leading the London Assassins and they said that the Indian brotherhood will be featured.

You also have George Eliot among the novelists.

Abelzorus-Prime
09-08-2015, 12:29 AM
I think they will just make Karl Mrax an associate to the Assassins although I would rather him be an Assassin like Machiavelli. I would hate it if Marx ended being a Sage as he would basically be undoing his predecessors work as Germain set up the stages for Capitlalism and Marx is Anti-Capitalist. The Assassins did also support the Communist in Russia during the Revolution, so I think It's more likely the Assassins would be more close to Karl Marx in London.

Honourable Mentions is for people I don't thik will be in the game or will have a very very small role.

That's interesting! I would be cool and make sense if Bradlaugh and Besant were in Syndicate. Good Spot!

Sorrosyss
09-08-2015, 01:11 PM
Good post! Of these, I have to agree that Marx is the most likely. As with the tie in with the India game, he and Marxism itself, is an obvious tie in to the Russian revolution setting of the upcoming Orelov game.

Senningiri_GR
09-08-2015, 01:17 PM
Good post! Of these, I have to agree that Marx is the most likely. As with the tie in with the India game, he and Marxism itself, is an obvious tie in to the Russian revolution setting of the upcoming Orelov game.

Upcoming Orelov game??? That is not a game.... not if it is like Assassin's Creed Discovery and continuation of Chronicles:China. There were many bad freebacks.

Abelzorus-Prime
09-08-2015, 03:15 PM
The Upcoming Orelov game is Assassin's Creed Chronicles: Russia

D.I.D.
09-08-2015, 06:56 PM
If they have Florence Nightgale (or even if they don't), they'd better have Mary Seacole.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Seacole_-_Challen.jpg

Seacole applied to join Nightgale's nurses, having a great deal of experience tending to the sick in challenging circumstances in Jamaica and Central America, but was refused. Rather than give up, Seacole used her own money and went to the Crimean battlefields anyway, setting up her own nursing station (her "British hotel"). Seacole saved a great many lives, not just through a few better methods and approaches but also because of her remarkable bravery. Many soldiers returned from war telling their eye-witness accounts of Seacole riding into the batllefield on horseback to retrieve the injured back to her beds.

Born of a black Jamaican mother and a white Scottish soldier father, Seacole faced and defeated prejudice to enact her heroism, and yet still faced resistance to recognition of her service after the war in England. While many military men sang her praises, while crowds thronged to celebrate her return in numbers so high that it was reported that two burly police officers had to flank her to push her through the throng, some people in power were less keen to honour her. Nightingale even publicly slighted Seacole, alleging that one of her Egyptian assistants was a daughter born of a scandalous relationship between Seacole and Lord Burford (perhaps sensing a threat to her own legend). When she fell on hard times, a public fund popularised with the help of the newspapers provided her with some financial aid. In her later years, after some time in Jamaica, she returned to London to speak with Sir Harry Verney, the Buckingham MP involved in a charity for wounded servicemen, with the probable intention of raising funds so that she could go to serve soldiers in the Franco-Prussian War. Nightgale again intervened, writing to Verney to allege that Seacole had kept a "bad house" in the Crimean War and that she encouraged debauchery there.

Shahkulu101
09-08-2015, 07:11 PM
^ Fascinating story.

Really sad too.

Abelzorus-Prime
09-08-2015, 07:15 PM
That made Nightingale seem like a B****! I would would love to see her in the game, but I don't think she was in London during 1868. I might actually prefer her to Florence.

D.I.D.
09-08-2015, 07:26 PM
That made Nightingale seem like a B****! I would would love to see her in the game, but I don't think she was in London during 1868. I might actually prefer her to Florence.

Yeah, those details are pretty unpleasant, but then again she was fighting for her own status. We'd all like to think we'd do things better, but faced with sufficient hurdles to success perhaps we'd end up behaving like crabs in a barrel too.

It's possible we might see Seacole. She was in Jamaica during 1968, but then again her fund was resurrected in 1867 so perhaps she was travelling back and forth to London to collect/promote the charity. She was certainly back by 1870, and AC tweaks the dates when it wants/needs to, so you never know.

VestigialLlama4
09-16-2015, 07:55 PM
Florence Nightingale is confirmed. As is Frederick Abberline.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/09/16/the-celebrities-of-assassins-creed-syndicate-ign-first

Each Sequence deals with a specific form of progress, technology, or industry that was crucial for London at the time, and that’s being fought over. For example, Sequence 5 throws you in the midst of a power struggle between two warring omnibus companies. Sequence 4 deals with medicine, which is where a pair of other important historical figures come in – Charles Darwin and Florence Nightingale.

Darwin’s influential work on evolution and ancestry seem to fit in perfectly with the themes of the Assassin’s Creed series, while Nightingale brings a different flavor to the game. She’s one of the creators of modern medicine and helped make a name for women in the field. She’s known as the Lady with the Lamp, because she used to walk about into battlefields during the Crimean War and take care of the wounded by lamplight. She’s also one of the first people to have ever had her voice recorded and preserved, which might make her the most “modern” of any historical figure in the series.

Each historical character lives his or her own life, and though Jacob and Evie meet them throughout the course of their adventure, they don’t change the course of those actual people’s lives. As Côté told us, “You always have to be careful, because you never want to paint someone for something they weren’t.”

Obviously no one got Mr. Cote's memo for UNITY. Nor did Mr. Cote himself


Creative Director Marc-Alexis Côté emphasized that the team wanted to stay away from the “Forrest Gump” feeling that certain entries in the series such as III and Unity tended to have.

I can't believe this, Unity was supposed to tone down the gump issue and now they are saying it had too much...sheesh. I don't like people rewriting the events of last year.


As Côté put it, “When we were talking as a team in the beginning, what we set out to do was a game much more like Assassin’s Creed II than Assassin’s Creed III, which took you from event to event. It’s more about understanding and feeling what this era was about…it’s an era of discovery and change.”

The funny thing was that AC2 was entirely Event to Event. You had the Pazzi Conspiracy, you had the Attack on Forli, then the Bonfire at the Vanities. It was event to event. As was Black Flag (one of the most gumpiest of all the games)...but it seems nobody wants to actually learn from their own games. Anyway...

Altair1789
09-16-2015, 08:27 PM
Charles Lee seemed like the perfect candidate for an ally in AC3, but he turned out to be the antagonist. Since then I'm careful about this kind of speculation

Abelzorus-Prime
09-17-2015, 11:36 AM
I might actually be right about Florence Nightingale! I finally predicted something correct!

I don't know how you thought Charles Lee was the perfect candidate for an ally. He hated George Washington and it was obvious from early on that Connor and Washington were allies.

Kuiperdolin
09-18-2015, 10:19 AM
It sounds likely we'll see Benjamin Disraeli.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Benjamin_Disraeli_by_Cornelius_Jabez_Hughes%2C_187 8.jpg/245px-Benjamin_Disraeli_by_Cornelius_Jabez_Hughes%2C_187 8.jpg

1868 was the year of his first, brief tenure as Prime Minister. And Gladstone sounds templar-y, so an ally ? Maybe ?

VestigialLlama4
09-18-2015, 10:24 AM
It sounds likely we'll see Benjamin Disraeli.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Benjamin_Disraeli_by_Cornelius_Jabez_Hughes%2C_187 8.jpg/245px-Benjamin_Disraeli_by_Cornelius_Jabez_Hughes%2C_187 8.jpg

1868 was the year of his first, brief tenure as Prime Minister. And Gladstone sounds templar-y, so an ally ? Maybe ?

Disraeli was the man who created the British Empire in title, he made Victoria Empress of India whereas Gladstone was the liberal reformer.

In any case neither will be connected to Templars directly but rather be "pawns" or whatever.

Kuiperdolin
09-25-2015, 10:26 AM
Disraeli was the man who created the British Empire in title, he made Victoria Empress of India whereas Gladstone was the liberal reformer.

In any case neither will be connected to Templars directly but rather be "pawns" or whatever.

Gladstone was a liberal when liberals where on the rise, after having been a reactionary. That's classic Templar, an unprincipled, cynical grab for power by jumping on a cause (like the Catholic Church). And if Gladstone is a Templar...

Either way it will be awkward when they try to swipe his jewishness under the rug, if the pattern holds.

VestigialLlama4
09-25-2015, 12:29 PM
Gladstone was a liberal when liberals where on the rise, after having been a reactionary. That's classic Templar, an unprincipled, cynical grab for power by jumping on a cause (like the Catholic Church). And if Gladstone is a Templar...

Either way it will be awkward when they try to swipe his jewishness under the rug, if the pattern holds.

It's actually funny but AC has never dealt with Jewishness or with the issues Jews had to face in Western Europe. Syndicate is the first time where you have two prominent Jewish historical figures, Benjamin Disraeli and Karl Marx, both of whom pretty much the polar opposite of the other.

It's weird when you think about AC1, AC2-ACB-ACR-Unity set in areas where Jews lived, thrived and suffered historically that we don't actually see them in the game itself. It's like making a movie about Colonial times but not showing racism to slaves and native americans. Obviously, Ubisoft when they made games about the New World obviously didn't dial down the slavery or racism but somehow they aren't as critical about Europe as they are about America, which considering their French and French-Canadian origins, is both understandable and disappointing.

The weird part is that the games contain characters who are important to Jewish history but it's slanted in a way that makes the Assassins look really bad.

I mean Rodrigo Borgia was the most religiously tolerant Pope of the Renaissance, that may be because he was in it for the power, cash and girls (as seems likely from history), but it also meant that when Jews were chucked out of Spain, Portugal and Provence, he had them settle in Rome's Jewish quarter without any strings attached (no conversion, no bullying, nothing). In Brotherhood, we have architecture from the baroque eras, but we don't see the Jewish quarter when that was there all along. Likewise during the French Revolution, France became the first nation to abolish anti-semitic laws, provide rights to Jews, protestants, people of colour and later abolish slavery itself. The people who did advocate this were...Robespierre and his Merry Men, who the game paints as monsters.

The thing is Abstergo's propaganda videos for Black Flag doesn't mention any of this, which is weird. The reason is, obviously if Ubisoft put any of this stuff in later games, the Assassins will look supremely bad.

Kuiperdolin
09-25-2015, 12:46 PM
Pretty sure there was a synagogue in AC1 Jerusalem. But yeah otherwise no asingle Jew in sight.

VestigialLlama4
09-25-2015, 12:54 PM
Pretty sure there was a synagogue in AC1 Jerusalem.

That was definitely there. Big Star of David on top.
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/559832147470159572/80F41A6442D737F62CEADCF3D19C602D8E0051F5/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C1024:575&composite-to=*,*%7C1024:575&background-color=black


But yeah otherwise no asingle Jew in sight.

Syndicate obviously changes things with 2 for the price of 1, Disraeli and Marx, though well neither of them are entirely well liked for various reasons. Disraeli converted and became an Imperialist and Marx is well Marx, still as controversial as he was back then.

But you know obviously Ubisoft should get credit for at least pioneering historical recreation in games to the point that you could expect to see say, LGBT and other minorities in the Middle Ages. If another historical games comes afterwards, unlikely as it may be, they would at least have a certain benchmark to hit and surpass, by saying tackling these minority issues. I am pretty sure it wasn't a conscious exclusion, it's likely that it simply didn't come up when they say make a game set in the renaissance.