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Gold31415
09-01-2015, 02:57 PM
The most famous and documented historical war ever is never mentioned w.r.t. Assassin's Creed why is that?

Or was it ever mentioned and I missed it?


Even more surprising because the Iliad details the scenery and equipment to the smallest details, down to the number of bolts on a sword, the exact shape of a certain armour, a shield, etc.


And guess what: It is nothing like illustrated in (the almost sci-fi) Brad Pitt Troy movie of 2004.




www.salimbeti.com is an artist that does realistic renderings based on detailed descriptions in the Iliad (1200 BC).

Here's is a realistic rendering of Achilles and Hector inc. the panopli, equipment descriptions, heraldic emblems, etc. mentioned in the Iliad.

http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/images/iliadarmour15.jpg
http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/images/iliadarmour14.jpg


I'm surprised it's never mentioned in AC development, why is that?

I think the Assassin's Creed series would be a great way to illustrate this dark ages in western history and what is written as "the greatest warrior that will ever live."

ze_topazio
09-01-2015, 03:09 PM
The Iliad is a fictional work, if I'm not mistaken modern historians believe it may be inspired by some facts but for the most part is fiction, there are no evidence of any allied Greek states declaring war on Troy, even the archaeological remains of Troy show no sign of any invasion I think.

VestigialLlama4
09-01-2015, 05:43 PM
The most famous and documented historical war ever is never mentioned w.r.t. Assassin's Creed why is that?

Or was it ever mentioned and I missed it?

Well Al Mualim mentioned the Trojan War in his final battle with Altair in AC1. He confirms that the Trojan War did take place in the AC-verse, the First Civ triggered it for sh-ts and giggles.

As for the Trojan War being "the most famous and documented historical war", that's wrong on several counts. The most famous war is World War II, since it actually forged the contemporary world we live and breathe in to this very day. The Trojan War is only chronicled in a couple of Greek myths and some apocrypha and plays, its not a historical event we can really study.


I'm surprised it's never mentioned in AC development, why is that?

I think the Assassin's Creed series would be a great way to illustrate this dark ages in western history and what is written as "the greatest warrior that will ever live."

Well for one thing AC is not a war game. Its about open-world, stealth, exploration, puzzles, platforming. Its a game that works best when it focuses on society and civilian life. A war is about soldiers and generals and tactics. Secondly, if AC were to take place in the Trojan War, it would be a really depressing game because you would be on the side of the Trojans. The Trojans are people defending their homeland against a pack of psychopathic warlords and they end up getting sacked and enslaved for their trouble. It's not a happy ending at all.

Gold31415
09-01-2015, 09:06 PM
The Iliad is a fictional work, if I'm not mistaken modern historians believe it may be inspired by some facts but for the most part is fiction, there are no evidence of any allied Greek states declaring war on Troy, even the archaeological remains of Troy show no sign of any invasion I think.

That's where you are mistaken my friend!

One snippet of data in the Iliad for example. The Iliad mentions numerous ("seven" I believe) streams of alluvial marshland between Troy and the Aegean sea. Geologists looking at the map of Troy (Wilusa) today find that it is 5km inland from the sea behind a wall of land. So for years the Iliad was considered a myth with geological features not matching up with the (surprisingly detailed) geological descriptions in the ancient story.

That is until 2003-2004 when geologists working at the site of Hissarlik found that the 1300BC mouth of the Scamander river actually matched the Iliad perfectly pre 3000 years of sedimentation.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38790000/gif/_38790313_turkey_troy2_300map.gif

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2736059.stm

Also, Troy VII (1300BC) matching the timeline of the Trojan war, appears to archaeologists to be destroyed by warfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_VII


This brought the (very detailed) descriptions in the Iliad into much sharper focus in the last 10 years (academically=yesterday).

In any case, the AC franchise ability to immerse you in a certain environment, together with the detailed descriptions in the Iliad and the renderings at www.salimbeti.com and the fact that the era, to historians, is a Dark Age, for me means it is a perfect candidate for AC.

Not one sided, the Trojans kidnapped Helen after being invited to Sparta by the king Menelaos remember.

Who would not want to walk around that era in time, where the greatest warrior to have ever lived (Achilles) breathes the same air.

VestigialLlama4
09-01-2015, 09:58 PM
Not one sided, the Trojans kidnapped Helen after being invited to Sparta by the king Menelaos remember.

How does that justify invading, laying siege and then sacking a whole city? Only by Barbarian logic does that make sense. To people living in the 21st Century, its not enough.


Who would not want to walk around that era in time, where the greatest warrior to have ever lived (Achilles) breathes the same air.

I would pay good money to defeat Achilles in a boss fight and then walk by while a Greek propagandist warbles about how Achilles was killed by treachery and false means. That's what AC does after all, it shows that most legends and myths are written by the winners.

In any case, Achilles in the Iliad, if he did exist is not the greatest warrior who ever lived. Genghis Khan was a much better warrior, as was the real-life Alexander the Great or Hannibal Barca.

Gold31415
09-01-2015, 10:16 PM
How does that justify invading, laying siege and then sacking a whole city? Only by Barbarian logic does that make sense. To people living in the 21st Century, its not enough.



I would pay good money to defeat Achilles in a boss fight and then walk by while a Greek propagandist warbles about how Achilles was killed by treachery and false means. That's what AC does after all, it shows that most legends and myths are written by the winners.

In any case, Achilles in the Iliad, if he did exist is not the greatest warrior who ever lived. Genghis Khan was a much better warrior, as was the real-life Alexander the Great or Hannibal Barca.

Lol, I'm not justifying anything. It's just a really well known and very descriptive book and a dark age in history, I thought it would be a nice match to AC that's all.

PS: your examples are generals, the Iliad was pre phalanx or any type of complex battlefield tactics and Achilles was only known for hand to hand fighting.

JamesFaith007
09-02-2015, 09:05 AM
the Iliad was pre phalanx or any type of complex battlefield tactics and Achilles was only known for hand to hand fighting.

What?

Oldest known mention of phalanx battlefield tactics is from 2 500 B.C. from Summer. Every old civilization like Egyptians or Hittites used these "komplex" strategies long before supposed battle of Troy.

BTW, phalanx was first mentioned in Greek literature by... Homer in Illiada.

Gold31415
09-02-2015, 05:55 PM
What?

Oldest known mention of phalanx battlefield tactics is from 2 500 B.C. from Summer. Every old civilization like Egyptians or Hittites used these "komplex" strategies long before supposed battle of Troy.

BTW, phalanx was first mentioned in Greek literature by... Homer in Illiada.


I'm so sorry.

Thank you so much for proving me wrong! It's great to learn something new everyday!

CrossedEagle
09-07-2015, 06:20 PM
Erm, proving the Trojan War took place is hardly a slam dunk case. If I learned anything from my class on the Trojan War it's that if the Iliad was describing an actual war it was substantially more fiction than a recount of an actual event. Homer could have been describing a highly embellished memory of a war at Hisarlik, but thanks to Heinrich Schliemann we'll never know :/

The Trojan War wouldn't make a good setting for an AC game because there's not enough data to help them design a historical game off of it.

CalgaryJay
09-07-2015, 07:14 PM
I have nothing more to add that hasn't already been said, save for I'd love for AC to visit the ancient Greek/Aegean world at some point, especially since Ubi's proven they can do naval warfare very well. Though I'd much prefer classical Greece to this Mycenaean era where so little is known, and thus mostly just legend.

Exploring Classical Athens would be amazing.