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View Full Version : Assassin's Creed could learn some things



UKassassinsfan
08-30-2015, 01:19 AM
I haven't followed AC half as much since after black flag, unity was a massive let down for me and because of this I haven't been able to get excited for syndicate... The only thing that is really pulling me in is that it's set in my home town of London! I just found the game has become overly repetitive and lost the excitement that really attracted me in the days of AC1-3!

However I have recently completed The Witcher 3 and I can say that it's one of the best games I've ever played, everything about it is just so polished. The designers have managed to create a game where everything you do is enjoyable, from mini games to the main story.

I think that assassins creed could learn a lot from this style, in my opinion assassins creed has been getting stale over the last few years due to weak story, boring collectibles and the side quests are either boring or too short. This shows what extra years, a longer game, extended debugging etc could do for a franchise I have loved for years now.

Where Witcher excels is most for me is that every single quest whether a tiny side quest or the main one feels relevant and fun, it all adds to a bigger picture and it keeps the player wanting more all the time! The game play is fresh and you never feel like it ever gets repetitive. I've said the same before comparing AC to skyrim instead and I feel with a longer title it would give us chance to really get to know characters, we could really tell a story and it would be a massive boost to a dwindling franchise.
For those who have played Witcher, the drunk scene in Kaer Morhen was more enjoyable than any dialogue in unity and that was just a passing bit of fun which took half hour perhaps!
I know I sound negative about AC and it's mostly because I care a lot about the games and don't want to see them become something I can't stand etc.
So what do you guys think? Have you played Witcher and agree or not it would be good to have some discussion!

Sushiglutton
08-30-2015, 11:09 AM
Haven't played TW3 yet due to $/t-constraints, but from what I've heard it's awesome. CDPR and Ubi are two very different companies with radically different culture, ambition and success criteria, which I think reflects in the type of products they make.

I kind of feel like AC has adopted the "wrong" RPG-mechanics. Leveling, customization, plentyful loot etc are things that to me aren't that exciting. Rich, fleshed out sidequests with strong characters and story implications is the thing to focus on instead imo. That's one of the reason I really digged Mass Effect 2. It was an action game/TPS, but with the storytelling of an RPG, which to me is a compelling combo.

DualFace
08-30-2015, 11:34 AM
Strong characters/story, yeah, I feel you. Probably a reason why the Ezio saga was so loved by most,
and again with ACIV.

I laughed hard when I saw the same running animation from Arno to Jacob, because it was just blatantly
in-your-face how much short-cutting is still being done in Ubisoft when it comes to making these games
and Ubisoft thinking that one needs to drop every 2 years.

No.

Man I miss Patrice Dèsilets' know-how. -_-

EmbodyingSeven5
08-30-2015, 12:36 PM
The AC games have always had pretty bad side content. It was at its best in Brotherhood with Leonardo Missions, Temples, Assassination Missions, Borgia Towers and the guild missions but even those got a little repetitive. AC would be at its best with multiple fleshed out side missions that explored ACs lore and the conflict.

UKassassinsfan
08-30-2015, 12:40 PM
They have taken two different directions but TW3 trumps AC at the things AC wants to do best as well (excluding stealth and parkour). But like take the example of Geralt, due to his Witcher mutations he is devoid of emotion and even then he is one of the most deep complex and interesting characters I've been able to play as.
Whilst AC has had interesting characters the people in TW3 are just so fun I wanna just get to know them all so much more! AC could definitely benefit from being longer and more deep.

Xstantin
08-30-2015, 01:28 PM
Whilst AC has had interesting characters the people in TW3 are just so fun I wanna just get to know them all so much more! AC could definitely benefit from being longer and more deep.

I never found any of them to be fun and interesting tbh. Sob stories and "I'll tell you where Ciri is if you do that for me, after you do that for someone else" gets tiring.
Once you get to Novigrad all the Dandelion quests begin to drag like crazy imo

UKassassinsfan
08-31-2015, 01:19 PM
But every character has so much depth that I want to explore even people from side missions.
I never really found that any two quests felt the same, they managed to make each thing feel fresh. And they put in the effort to give everyone some depth. In AC missions the people you meet are usually just what they seem at face value, nothing more or less which sucks really

dxsxhxcx
08-31-2015, 01:44 PM
CDPR and Ubi are two very different companies with radically different culture, ambition and success criteria, which I think reflects in the type of products they make.

I dare to say that CDPR is different from all other companies out there.. can't wait for Cyberpunk 2077.

Shahkulu101
08-31-2015, 03:38 PM
I never found any of them to be fun and interesting tbh. Sob stories and "I'll tell you where Ciri is if you do that for me, after you do that for someone else" gets tiring.
Once you get to Novigrad all the Dandelion quests begin to drag like crazy imo

How dare you. :p

Novigrad is one of my favourite sections, Priscilla's song and the play especially.

Xstantin
08-31-2015, 05:47 PM
How dare you. :p

Novigrad is one of my favourite sections, Priscilla's song and the play especially.

I guess I just got tired running from one of his girlfriends to the next :)

HoyHoyJake
08-31-2015, 09:31 PM
I dare to say that CDPR is different from all other companies out there.. can't wait for Cyberpunk 2077.
Yeah, I'm really hyped for Cyberpunk 2077!

In line with the OP though, yes they could most definitely learn. I'm sure they keep a watchful eye on other games out there and perhaps you'll see something of the sort implemented in future titles. Admittedly, I'm not the biggest AC fan and I've only played a few titles, so I'm not quite sure what their development cycle is like. Do they do sort of a COD thing where it's 3 main studios who get like 3 year cycles to develop a title? I know Ubi uses a lot of other studios that pitch in for parts of the game. I guess my question is, what is the actual development time for each title?

Aphex_Tim
09-01-2015, 09:22 AM
My first thought when getting in a fight with a bunch of bandits or drowners in the Witcher 3 was that AC should learn from that system.
The Witcher's fighting system of blocking and parrying, striking with either a fast light attack or a slow heavy attack and dodging by either sidestepping or rolling is simple in essence but can get very fast paced and intense at time; even somewhat strategic. Enemies can attack you all at once and each fight feels different, depending on the enemy type's behaviour; but it looks and feels more realistic and rewarding than any AC game so far.

strigoi1958
09-01-2015, 11:41 AM
I'm sure other games could learn from AC games... but then... wouldn't we just end up with basically 1 game with similar mechanics and gameplay with each company just adding a different plot and characters ?

dxsxhxcx
09-01-2015, 12:27 PM
I'm sure other games could learn from AC games... but then... wouldn't we just end up with basically 1 game with similar mechanics and gameplay with each company just adding a different plot and characters ?

I think what the OP is suggesting is more a change of approach towards the franchise rather than copy and paste mechanics from other games...

strigoi1958
09-01-2015, 12:40 PM
the trouble is... it is impossible to please everyone... check out these forums ;) if Ubi changes things people complain here... if things don't change... people complain here.... so if a company is going to get criticized regardless then perhaps they should just go with whatever they think is right ? not saying the OP is wrong but others will disagree.

Witcher games, MSG, Borderlands, Mass Effect 3, C.O.D. are just a few good games that I dislike... incorporating somethings from them may make the AC series better or lose me as a fan forever

dxsxhxcx
09-01-2015, 01:34 PM
the trouble is... it is impossible to please everyone... check out these forums ;) if Ubi changes things people complain here... if things don't change... people complain here.... so if a company is going to get criticized regardless then perhaps they should just go with whatever they think is right ? not saying the OP is wrong but others will disagree.

Witcher games, MSG, Borderlands, Mass Effect 3, C.O.D. are just a few good games that I dislike... incorporating somethings from them may make the AC series better or lose me as a fan forever

I doubt people would complain about making the side content more meaningful (story-wise) and enjoyable (something TW3 is praised for) instead of the chores we currently have (such as pointless collectibles and repetitive mission design)...


Of course they can't please everyone, but this doesn't mean they should keep things as they are and not even try to improve them...

HoyHoyJake
09-01-2015, 01:47 PM
I'm sure other games could learn from AC games... but then... wouldn't we just end up with basically 1 game with similar mechanics and gameplay with each company just adding a different plot and characters ?

Welcome to the modern FPS

strigoi1958
09-01-2015, 04:59 PM
I doubt people would complain about making the side content more meaningful (story-wise) and enjoyable (something TW3 is praised for) instead of the chores we currently have (such as pointless collectibles and repetitive mission design)...


Of course they can't please everyone, but this doesn't mean they should keep things as they are and not even try to improve them...

check out this forum and see how many complaints there are about upcoming things in Syndicate and the game hasn't released yet and I'm assuming that those are things ubi have tried to improve. Unless we assume they're deliberately changing things to lose sales.

So who decides what is improved or not ? you, I or the millions who buy the games but do not use forums ? or Ubi ?.
You agree you cannot please everyone then you doubt others would complain because you think collectibles are pointless without considering others may like them.... none of us have a crystal ball

Now I know generally die hard and hardcore fans see MD as probably one if not THE most important parts of the game.... myself I consider to be a die hard fan ... but MD is an immersion breaker to me... I'm sailing in AC4 attacking ships, whaling, diving for treasure, exploring and looking out for forts.... the crew are singing shanties, the water is swilling across the decks, the storm on the starboard side is passing and I'm thinking about kenways fleet and upgrading the ship...... THEN I'm in an office playing frogger on a pc to hack into another pc and take data in the lift to a courier... nothing to do with being an assassin for me.

So if by better side content and meaningful story you are referring to more MD I'd dislike that but it is Ubi's decision and I don't think my personal preferences would make future games enjoyable for everyone... ;) in fact there might be calls for a lynching if everyone could track me down ;)

Ubi probably has enough trouble trying to make a game that is appealing to the widest number of possible buyers and I doubt they are deliberately going out of their way to make it worse in any way.... but some people will like it others will not.

All games should be judged on their own merit. TW3 has its own share of people on metacritic who dislike aspects of it such as far too much repetitive combat compared to other games....

I can understand the OP has a desire for some changes that might make future AC games better for him and maybe others including me...but comparing parts of one game to parts of another is unnecessary.

Jessigirl2013
09-02-2015, 02:20 PM
Needs to be more MD focused like all AC games before the awful ending of ACIII.

Sushiglutton
09-02-2015, 05:30 PM
So who decides what is improved or not ? you, I or the millions who buy the games but do not use forums ? or Ubi ?.
You agree you cannot please everyone then you doubt others would complain because you think collectibles are pointless without considering others may like them.... none of us have a crystal ball

Ubi decides ofc. That doens't mean you can't argue for your opinion. The "Ubi doesn't care about you, but the million anonymous gamers " argument is kind of tired and rarely adds much. More fun to discuss what you think/feel, without being to concerned with what others do :).



I can understand the OP has a desire for some changes that might make future AC games better for him and maybe others including me...but comparing parts of one game to parts of another is unnecessary.

I disagree about this pont too. For us amateurs it makes a lot of sense to compare to other games. For starters it's difficult for us to know what's technically feasible. By comparing to another game we at least know someone else has done it (that said, we often demand Ubi to match the best in the industry at every single aspect, which obv is a bit unfair). Then it's fun to imagine if one game added a feature from another game and what it would be like. AAA games do evolve a lot by incorporating elements from eachother, which is fine to some extent. That's part of the reason competition is great.

strigoi1958
09-03-2015, 12:41 AM
I wasn't having a go at dxsx and hope I didn't come across that way.... the point I was trying to make is everyone is entitled to an opinion but we often only hear our own... dxsx agreed we cannot please everyone ... therefore someone will always complain.... and immediately he states he doesn't think anyone would complain if the game is changed to his preference... I just thought that was funny... a bit like when Austin Powers father Nigel Powers says " There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch."

Sometimes people (me especially ) make the odd slip.

My point about comparing games is it makes no sense if I say the flying in GTA V is better than in AC 2... and is not constructive.

What would have been better was to say.... "I wish the story line and missions differed in this way"... and then people could agree, disagree or offer their own opinion on what they would like....
Stating that something in one game (that has it's own flaws ) is better than another game I don't think is relevant... especially as it was just saying the story and missions are better... that is just personal preference.

If I think the homestead missions in AC3 are better than TW3 missions... or the story of AC using a machine to access memories in history, being guided by a first civilisation dealing with enemies past and present while searching for something more powerful than we can imagine...( I have shortened this list to prevent several paragraphs ;) ) and posted it here or on the witcher forum it is not relevant. The 2 are not really interchangeable and as such make no sense to me to compare..

I said before if we just mix the best bits of games together we end up with 1 game with the same mechanics and just different characters... no need for devs to be inventive any more... copy paste done.

I don't think AC games can or should try to learn from other games.... I do think as AC fans we have some great ideas that might make the game better if Ubi would give us 1 thread for a week to throw up suggestions to the devs, writers etc.. not just "make your missions better like the ones in another game" ;) constructive suggestions.

Imagine a woman trying to kill you in the memory Egypt 1790 (for example) her arrow just misses and as she escapes she cries out "All the time you are in this memory... we at Abstergo are hunting the location of your animus in Chicago" You return to MD and they tell you there are 2 risks... using the animus is allowing MD Templars to slowly trace us AND if another Animus user kills you in the animus... you will end up in a coma and remain in the animus like subject 16.
Adding more animus users allows for a choice to play as Templar or Assassin also it opens up multiplayer options.

I think as fans wanting something to improve game after game we do not need to look at other games... we could be more helpful in making AC better, even if Ubi didn't use any idea suggested but it opened up some new ideas for them... but I don't expect we'll get the opportunity.

dxsxhxcx
09-04-2015, 02:51 PM
I wasn't having a go at dxsx and hope I didn't come across that way.... the point I was trying to make is everyone is entitled to an opinion but we often only hear our own... dxsx agreed we cannot please everyone ... therefore someone will always complain.... and immediately he states he doesn't think anyone would complain if the game is changed to his preference... I just thought that was funny...

Don't worry, no harm done! ;)

by side content I meant historical side content and not the MD btw...

I realize that what I said sounded contradictory, but I was talking about the idea/concept of improving the side missions (collectibles included) making them more meaningful story-wise and more varied, and not the missions themselves (what we'll get in the final product), I find really hard to believe and I am yet to see someone defend collectibles at its current state (example: "collect god knows how many animus fragments for the sake of doing it) or generic/repetitive side missions with little story involved whose only purpose is to prolong the game's life and have little replay value, people may not like what they'll get in the final product, but IMO this has nothing to do with the side missions becoming more meaninful, but with the way they were presented or their story that might not please some, that's why I think other people wouldn't oppose to this change of approach towards them, because IMO it's not the concept that is at fault, but the way it was implemented, its presentation...

I hope I was able to make myself more clear now.. :)

strigoi1958
09-05-2015, 01:22 PM
very true...

I think there are a lot (probably too many) collectibles but they do serve as something to do in areas where we might not necessarily explore... and sometimes they can be tricky to find... I enjoy the ones that are difficult.

Plus a lot of people worked to make the game and we might miss a lot of the locations if we were not so obsessed with getting every single thing in the game ;) so I sometimes stop and look around.... would we climb the mast of a ship and look out over the harbour and city if there was no collectible up there ? probably not... but, perhaps they could make fewer collectibles and make it more of a puzzle how we get them.