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F19_Ob
07-24-2004, 07:30 AM
I was just checking old sites when I discovered they had added a 4th Interview with "Golodnikov". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

As U might know I love and collect personal info on ww2 planes from the pilots themselves,
in this case a Russian pilot.
Someone might find personal accounts somewhat biased, and they are, but so are most personal texts.
Read Golodnikovs comparisons between I-16, hurricane, p40 and p39 and about the tactics used against axis ac. Many details about the planes that u normally dont find.
The Russian views on these ac differ quite much from the ones in the west.


-----------------------------------------
For those of U who read the 3 previous interviews u can have the 4th here:
http://www.airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part4.htm

For new readers the first( switch to next page at bottom):
http://www.airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part1.htm



Perhaps new readers might find something here too:
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/
About aces from different countries.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F19_Ob
07-24-2004, 07:30 AM
I was just checking old sites when I discovered they had added a 4th Interview with "Golodnikov". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

As U might know I love and collect personal info on ww2 planes from the pilots themselves,
in this case a Russian pilot.
Someone might find personal accounts somewhat biased, and they are, but so are most personal texts.
Read Golodnikovs comparisons between I-16, hurricane, p40 and p39 and about the tactics used against axis ac. Many details about the planes that u normally dont find.
The Russian views on these ac differ quite much from the ones in the west.


-----------------------------------------
For those of U who read the 3 previous interviews u can have the 4th here:
http://www.airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part4.htm

For new readers the first( switch to next page at bottom):
http://www.airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part1.htm



Perhaps new readers might find something here too:
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/
About aces from different countries.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Udidtoo
07-24-2004, 09:42 AM
"Because we did not develop the habit of determining range to the target, this led to the practice in actual combat of commencing fire from too great a range, particularly at bombers (for some reason it seemed so enormous!). This error plus the mounting of small-caliber weapons made our gunnery ineffective."

That sounds familer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

SeaFireLIV
07-24-2004, 10:19 AM
I love reading this stuff!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/SigHarry.jpg

Perhaps giving Harris bombs wasn`t such a good idea after all! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LeadSpitter_
07-24-2004, 12:20 PM
great to see they added a 4th page. I wish this guy would interview more pilots like that and keep a record.

Thanks for posting the 4th page I have read the other 3 in the past and lost the site in my bookmarks overtime.

Great Post Ob

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

dieg777
07-24-2004, 02:56 PM
WOW http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
this is one of the best series of interviews I have read.
Many interesting points which should help our understanding of this period . Favourites are

"it is a difficult and thankless task to compare the combat qualities of aircraft using reference book data. There are simply too many nuances to consider." and only firing when you see the rivits of the enemy plane then you know you are in range and effective

GUNNER
Gunner get a decent signature
Gunner learn to fly
Gunner learn to shoot
Gunner not run out of bullets just as I get on his six

F19_Ob
07-24-2004, 05:51 PM
He he...I thought U would like the intervies..........Personally I like the forwardness of question and answer...a very neglected form of interviewing.
A few years back I mostly read about my favorites (selected aircraft and pilots), mostly axis.
Nowadays I treasure everything I get my hands on...from all sides. These intervies are infact rare, and we are just lucky to be able to read or find them at all...I belive they will be relics for "our" kind in the future?

Hope we will find many more like these. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

PBNA-Boosher
07-24-2004, 06:03 PM
I'd always loved reading these, still do. Thanks!

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Bluedog72
07-24-2004, 08:16 PM
Excellant read!!
Thanks very much for posting this.

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-24-2004, 08:36 PM
well, biased is a weak word to define him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

but, interessant read though

------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------
Slot 2 pilot of the Virtual Haute Voltige team, and live video director

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F19_Olli72
07-25-2004, 05:37 AM
Thanks for the link Ob http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/screenshotart/SIG_G50.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)

WOLFMondo
07-25-2004, 07:10 AM
A really interesting read but what I found most interesting was this:

A.S. Do you think that Hartmann actually shot down 352 aircraft?

N.G. I doubt it. Although, for sure, he did shoot down a great number.
The Germans had a relatively lax system for confirming victories. Frequently all that was required was confirmation by a wingman or camera film. The actual fall of the aircraft did not interest them, especially toward the end of the war.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

SeaFireLIV
07-25-2004, 07:16 AM
I hope we are not going to make the same juvenile mistake of taking one MAN`s recollection as complete accuracy! I love reading this stuff, but again, we must consider what he says with other evidence and facts and some leeway. For instance he mistook an RAF pilot`s name as Muller(with the funny U), not Miller.

But his words certainly help us in getting a good `feel` of how it was. And I have great RESPECT for such men as he.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/SigHarry.jpg

Harris was overjoyed when the Controller gave him bombs at last!

WOLFMondo
07-25-2004, 10:27 AM
Its always interesting to hear what a real fighter pilot who was really there has to say over the text book fed armchair experts thoughhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

F19_Ob
07-25-2004, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I hope we are not going to make the same juvenile mistake of taking one MAN`s recollection as complete accuracy! I love reading this stuff, but again, we must consider what he says with other evidence and facts and some leeway. For instance he mistook an RAF pilot`s name as Muller(with the funny U), not Miller.

But his words certainly help us in getting a good `feel` of how it was. And I have great RESPECT for such men as he.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/SigHarry.jpg

Harris was overjoyed when the Controller gave him bombs at last!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with U. I collect all I can from all sides and try to form my own opinion, wich ofcourse might change during the years of search.
One thing is clear to me though, after all these years of searching, and that is that nothing is 100% clear in any field of research.

Comforting ehh... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

robban75
07-25-2004, 12:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
A really interesting read but what I found most interesting was this:

A.S. Do you think that Hartmann actually shot down 352 aircraft?

N.G. I doubt it. Although, for sure, he did shoot down a great number.
The Germans had a relatively lax system for confirming victories. Frequently all that was required was confirmation by a wingman or camera film. The actual fall of the aircraft did not interest them, especially toward the end of the war.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The book "Green hearts, first in combat with the Dora-9" tells another story. seeing the downed fighter hitting the ground was of utmost importance to the LW pilots in order for it to count as a kill.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

JG7_Rall
07-25-2004, 01:41 PM
Umm...ok...

The germans actually had the most accurate kill counting system according to all the books I've read.

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

purzel08
07-25-2004, 02:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
A really interesting read but what I found most interesting was this:

A.S. Do you think that Hartmann actually shot down 352 aircraft?

N.G. I doubt it. Although, for sure, he did shoot down a great number.
The Germans had a relatively lax system for confirming victories. Frequently all that was required was confirmation by a wingman or camera film. The actual fall of the aircraft did not interest them, especially toward the end of the war.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
http://www.wolfgaming.net
Home of WGNDedicated<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And reading this just shows me that this lametta-stud is speaking complete bullsh1t:"The I-16 types -28 and -29 were superior to the Bf-109E". Sorry - but reading or hearing stories of WW2 from russian Vets allways make me wonder the germans made it to Moscow. Unlike vets of other nations the russian ones allways seem to exaggerate a little too much.

greetings...

LEXX_Luthor
07-25-2004, 02:27 PM
purzel08:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...stud is speaking complete bullsh1t: "The I-16 types -28 and -29 were superior to the Bf-109E".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
At low altitude Easter Front combat they were competitive, with I~16 having some advantages and Email others. As always we amatuers avoid pilot combat experience and tactical leadership doctrine advantages of Luftwaffe ("ten times better" ~ Oleg). Come down from the contrail level away from those Emails and 1940 Spits.

Interestingly, Goludnikov said the limit of I~16 was 6 to 7 kilometers altitude. Oleg got this spot on for AI piloted I~16s that cannot climb above 7km when chasing He~111s running at 7.5km

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Germans never made it to Moscow.


______________
"The American Browning .50 M2 is an undistinguished performer, particularly when compared with its closest competitor, the 12.7 mm Berezin. The relatively small incendiary content in the .50 API (0.9 g instead of 2 g) gives the Soviet round a flying start, which it adds to by its usefully higher rate of fire, then finishes off in style by being lighter as well, and thereby almost twice as efficient overall."
~~&gt; http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm
Tony Williams has been published many times and is a recognized authority on all forms of WWII weaponry, in particular the automatic weapons used by aircraft of that era. ~~ RAF74BuzzsawXO

purzel08
07-25-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Germans never made it to Moscow.


______________
"The American Browning .50 M2 is an undistinguished performer, particularly when compared with its closest competitor, the 12.7 mm Berezin. The relatively small incendiary content in the .50 API (0.9 g instead of 2 g) gives the Soviet round a flying start, which it adds to by its usefully higher rate of fire, then finishes off in style by being lighter as well, and thereby almost twice as efficient overall."
~~&gt; http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm
_Tony Williams has been published many times and is a recognized authority on all forms of WWII weaponry, in particular the automatic weapons used by aircraft of that era. ~~ RAF74BuzzsawXO_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never wrote that they captured Moscow. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif But german units made it to the outer stations of the surburban railway of Moscow.

greetings...

LEXX_Luthor
07-25-2004, 03:36 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

F19_Ob
07-26-2004, 03:30 AM
a last bump on this intrview.

WOLFMondo
07-26-2004, 04:31 AM
.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by purzel08:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
A really interesting read but what I found most interesting was this:

A.S. Do you think that Hartmann actually shot down 352 aircraft?

N.G. I doubt it. Although, for sure, he did shoot down a great number.
The Germans had a relatively lax system for confirming victories. Frequently all that was required was confirmation by a wingman or camera film. The actual fall of the aircraft did not interest them, especially toward the end of the war.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
http://www.wolfgaming.net
Home of WGNDedicated<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And reading this just shows me that this lametta-stud is speaking complete bullsh1t:"The I-16 types -28 and -29 were superior to the Bf-109E". Sorry - but reading or hearing stories of WW2 from russian Vets allways make me wonder the germans made it to Moscow. Unlike vets of other nations the russian ones allways seem to exaggerate a little too much.

greetings...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And of course you fought on the Eastern front and have first hand experiance of the BF109E's performance vs the I16? thought not.

That 1 persons memoirs of there time in WW2 as a front line fighter pilot, its not BS, especially since he has first hand experiance which is more than that could be said for pretty much 100% of the people on these boards bar that guy in the PF forum helping out as a SME on the B29.

His comments about the LW kill tallys is from personal experiance. It his take on it, its not right or wrong but the way he saw it. Sorry if this upsets some people.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

SeaFireLIV
07-26-2004, 04:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by purzel08:

Unlike vets of other nations the russian ones allways seem to exaggerate a little too much.

greetings...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now this is NOT what I mean when I say we must look at everything carefully and not take it as total truth. Insulting them insults me!

Pilot recollections are incredibly important and no `non-combat` flyer has the right to be so disdainful of these men.

It sounds to me you have `biased` issues with Russians in general and are not objectively looking at the situation.

But somebody always turns careful logic into their own personal biased cusade. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

609IAP_Recon
07-26-2004, 05:17 AM
wow, you mean they trained on how to see, and it was hard to see?

Surprised he didn't turn on icons http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

j/k

I do like these interviews, very interesting

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

[This message was edited by 609IAP_Recon on Mon July 26 2004 at 04:44 AM.]

horseback
07-26-2004, 10:08 AM
Golodnikov was raised and trained in the Soviet system and viewed the world through that unique cultural prism. What he believed about his enemies and Western pilots in general were mostly due to what he was told by his government. It's not like he had any alternative sources of information in
Murmansk outside of what would seem obvious propaganda from the Germans (or other reactionary forces).

Since he is well into his eighties by now, these views are hardly likely to be influenced by revelations brought about by political events of the last 15-20 years.

As for his appraisal of the I-16, remember that he was a better than average pilot, able to make his opponent to fight on Golodnikov's terms rather than his own. In the Turn and Burn fight, the I-16 does have advantages over the Emil, and if both aircraft have equal energy states, if the Emil doesn't extend up and away, the I-16 can make it's day miserable.

An Emil driver would say that his aircraft was better because he was faster and had superior vertical performance; the I-16 drver thought he had the advantage because the German couldn't turn as tightly or accellerate as quickly from low speeds. It's a matter of point of view.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

LEXX_Luthor
07-26-2004, 11:30 AM
He seemed to like USA planes the best. What he believed about western fighters he learned for himself without any help from his government.

horseback:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What he believed about his enemies and Western pilots in general were mostly due to what he was told by his government.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
lol jealousy

NG explains the Email pilot may not have time to extend away like we advertise to ourselves on teh internet. I like the way NG compares real life combat speed and flight simmer maximum speed (Noob Speed).

Also, the dude was an instructor until 1942 so he was certainly more at ease with his aircraft than the average VVS pilot and so could spend less time thinking about flying and more time fighting. I am also thinking his combat unit was an above average unit. Not sure, but could be.

For the poster/posterette asking about the "ocean" and "dust." NG flew for Baltic Fleet up north on or near our Finland Map. Dust--when Mississippi got hot in summer it got dusty there and is on the ocean too (like the The Meds desert is on the ocean too).


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:
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