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View Full Version : Why do you prefer propeler sim insted of jet ?



Highalt
03-04-2004, 05:56 AM
personally i am interested in WWII air combat history and IMO, FB gives the affect of air combats of these days very well and moreover in jet sims it's like a click-and-shotdown, u do not have much to do, to take down a foe.

your oppinions please

Highalt
03-04-2004, 05:56 AM
personally i am interested in WWII air combat history and IMO, FB gives the affect of air combats of these days very well and moreover in jet sims it's like a click-and-shotdown, u do not have much to do, to take down a foe.

your oppinions please

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-04-2004, 06:24 AM
Interest in Vintage aviation and the fact that aeronautical engineering progressed more in WWI and WWII than at any other time in its short history.

Those are the main reasons for me.



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Zayets
03-04-2004, 06:36 AM
Real men fly planes without an engine.

Zayets out
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M0NS
03-04-2004, 06:41 AM
No magic missiles, no radar & no engagements beyond visual range - all this sci-fi stuff turns me off. I like this man & machine thing you know. ;)

S!

M0NS

"So when Diogenes perceived that he was greatly excited and quite keyed up in mind with expectancy, he toyed with him and pulled him about in the hope that somehow he might be moved from his pride and thirst for glory and be able to sober up a little. For he noticed that at one time he was delighted, and at another grieved at the same thing, and that his soul was as unsettled as the weather at the solstices when both rain and sunshine come from the very same source."

(Dio Chrysostom "Discourse" 4.77-78)

XyZspineZyX
03-04-2004, 06:43 AM
1. You can see what you're aiming at.
2. Once you get past Mach I every aircraft starts looking similar.
3. You rely on a human instead of a computer.
4. Propellers keep you cool.



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Slush69
03-04-2004, 06:55 AM
I want to fly. Not spend time trying to figure out how to use the XYZ air-to-air radar. If I were into that I'd buy a VCR and try to program it.

cheers/slush

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hotspace
03-04-2004, 07:02 AM
More fun...

Hot Space

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/Hot_Space/me1.jpg

Nervous? Yes! First time? No, I've been nervous lots of times!!!

Highalt
03-04-2004, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Beebop_54:
1. You can see what you're aiming at.
2. Once you get past Mach I every aircraft starts looking similar.
3. You rely on a human instead of a computer.
4. Propellers keep you cool.

what do you want to tell by saying "Once you get past Mach I every aircraft starts looking similar ?" i dont get it? uh?



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http://www.il2airracing.com/

F19_Ob
03-04-2004, 07:41 AM
When I get the chance I use to fly really near, behind and slightly below an enemy for long periods. bouncing is fun but a superlong bounce is even funnier.

Recently I closely tracked a 109 unnoticed in a p40 for some time and since I had no ammo so I tried to chop his tail with my prop. I got propstrike and he flew away without noticing, I had a long glide to my airfield and landed normally.
U cant do that with a jet.

cheers

Showtime_100
03-04-2004, 07:43 AM
The Korean War had jets yet they didn't have "magic" missiles and radar.

The Vietnam War had jets yet they didn't have "magic" missiles if you look at PK results. In fact, w/ the Phantom, it's even more of a tail chase than WW2 aircraft because there was no gun (until the E) and the sidewinder required specific parameters behind the enemy aircraft.

I'm not sure aeronautics increased that much more in WW2 than any other time. Speeds went from 200 mph to about 500 mph. It's after WW2 during the cold war that speeds reach Mach2, missile warfare is developed and we go to the moon.

I prefer jet combat but there isn't any simulation out right now that has a good balance between eye-candy and playability in a complete wartime environment.

If you've never read it, do yourself a favor and get your hands on Drendel's "...And Kill MiGs" for some really great air-air dogfights during the Vietnam War. Excellent read and many of those were really intense dogfights that I'm sure anyone can appreciate.

panther3485
03-04-2004, 07:48 AM
Hi guys!

For me, it's no preference either way - I LOVE EM ALL! WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, The Gulf, Today, anytime, props or jets, let me at 'em! (Er... am I too easy to please?)

Best regards to all,
panther3485

BaldieJr
03-04-2004, 07:49 AM
I prefer prop sims because I can fly low.

I can't stand the emptyness of high-alt fights. Untill I can see the ground from 60k feet in a game, uber-speed planes are no fun.

Without the ground as reference, I get disoriented. With the high-speed of jets, flying low turns into an exercise in ground avoidance. Not fun.

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CO_Eagle_31stFG
03-04-2004, 08:00 AM
Simple lower speeds, less technical advances, more challenging.
Theres not that much to learn in a modern fighter, due to the technical advances of today, but props are different it seems there is always somthing new to learn even after years of flying them.

Ankanor
03-04-2004, 08:27 AM
I hate to be shot down by a long range missile directed by a radar. Also, if I have shot down the guy in front of me it is a sequence of:

1.He never saw me coming. I love the ambush!
2. I outmaneuvered him. Whether I had the advantage or I was better(even in a worse performing plane) flying, it is fun.
3. I outthought him. That is the best part, when I was caught low/slow, any combination of both and made him made a mistake.

You have to think more, you need better reactions, it's the man/machine, not a all seeing radar and a 70km range missile, the pilot just "shoot and forget".

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

ThirdCoastNickP
03-04-2004, 09:14 AM
Well, while I do love the intensity of battle in the prop planes, I think you guys are going a bit too harsh on jet fighters. Its anything but "shoot and forget". All the advances in technology have indeed made dogfighting a different type of combat than what was seen in WW2 but still holds the fundamentals. Another thing I didnt see was anything about a jet that does put you close to the ground and is extremly user combat oriented and thats the great A-10. The A-10 puts you places where the battle is hot and although you still have "magic missiles", a majority of what happens depends on your skill and not the computers. Thats why they have things like the Hawgssmoke competition. http://www.hawgsmoke2004.com

I guess my answer would probably jet sims though. I like having to learn about radar systems and weapons system modes while juggeling target identification and navigation in a hell bringing, tank busting hog. But prop sims are still cool too, thats why Im here.

Kampfmeister
03-04-2004, 10:05 AM
As for me I prefer to get close and personal with my opponent. If all you have to fight with are guns, then you need to get as close to your enemy as possible to make sure you down him. I almost never fire my guns at more than 100 meters, but hold off until he fills my screen. I think it takes a little more skill and patience to do it that way, not to mention I think there is more of an adrenaline rush. Even with basic air to air missiles like the Sidewinder, you can still fire and hit your target from quite a distance even though he is still in visual range. However, I am also not implying that Jet pilots aren't any less skilled.

That said, I'd still like to see a Korean War add on since all they had to fight with were guns also. I would go as late as the Vietnam era or the Six-day war, but not beyond. From some of the film footage I've seen, they didn't exclusively use missiles, but still used their cannons on occasion to down enemy aircraft.

BuzzU
03-04-2004, 10:17 AM
The same reason someone would like a Harley over a Honda.

Buzz
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Bearcat99
03-04-2004, 10:20 AM
I just like the props... more up close and personal. I like the fact tah we have Jets in FB... I think the Meteor will be a welcome addition and round out the sim nicely... if we could get a Mig...:o!! I dont relly like the fly by wire concept. Koren era jet were a lot like WW2 planes...with rockets on them.. which I like.

Scen
03-04-2004, 10:25 AM
I don't I love both...

I do tend to gravitate more towards WWII because it was an amazing time historically.

Scendore

Red_Russian13
03-04-2004, 10:30 AM
Well, I really prefer prop sims because in a way, they're more managable. I don't have to worry about radars and missles shooting at me from 90 nautical miles or whatever. Plus, those damn SA-10s. I'd rather deal with flak. Just not radar guided 23mm Shilkas!

Also, I like the nastalgia. The "mounted knight" sort of mentality that goes with prop aviation. It's more personal. With jets, it seems very impersonal. Less etiquette. Now, this is just my opinion.

I guess I should quantify it by saying "modern" jet sims. I like the jets we now have in AEP, and Korean jets. They appeal to me. And this isn't to say that I don't play LOMAC on occasion, but like someone else said, I pretty much fly the A-10 exclusively.

Another reason maybe this. I was in the military, in intel, and in the airwing. I was dealing with that sort of stuff on a daily basis. What's the range of the SA-16, the AA-10, the MAGIC, the ODD PAIR, the combat capabilities of the Su-33....the list goes on. With a prop sim, (or in this case WWII-era flight sim) it's sort of real escapism. And that era has always held a sway over me. I guess it's partly because it's my grandparents era and they're The Greatest Generation and I feel that we're doing nothing but living on their backs and on their hard work and sacrifice. So, I really admire those guys. This isn't to say I don't admire pilots of today. Because after "flying" the F-15 in LOMAC, I do admire them. And I've also briefed them about the dangers of flying real world combat ops over Afghanistan, so I understand them too.

I guess, there's just something about a huge prop on a graceful (or ungraceful) looking plane and downing your enemy with 20mm cannons (that aren't of the rotary variety).

Just my two cents.

Red Russian
SGT/USMC 0231 1998-2002

SlickStick
03-04-2004, 11:08 AM
It's the up close and personal aspect of dogfighting with machine guns and cannons, instead of radar guided missiles and the rest of the impersonal aspect of jet flying that makes prop sims the preference for me.

The Tango de La Muerte of two prop planes maneuvering against each other for the clean shot, just does it for me I guess.;)

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adlabs6
03-04-2004, 11:11 AM
The main negative listed here seems to be missiles, not jets. Propulsion source not withstanding, its dang fun to shoot with guns!

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Kampfmeister
03-04-2004, 11:46 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SlickStick:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
The Tango de La Muerte of two prop planes maneuvering against each other for the clean shot, just does it for me I guess.;)
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

The Tango de La Muerte? Man, you are a Simpson's fanatic aren't you SlickStick?

ThreeCrow
03-04-2004, 12:06 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Highalt:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Beebop_54:
1. You can see what you're aiming at.
2. Once you get past Mach I every aircraft starts looking similar.
3. You rely on a human instead of a computer.
4. Propellers keep you cool.

what do you want to tell by saying "Once you get past Mach I every aircraft starts looking similar ?" i dont get it? uh?


Consider the appeal of "Grand Prix Legends", a racing sim based on the 1967 Formuila One season. Those race cars were light, had perhaps 700 horsepower three litre engines, and the tire technology of the time. The skill required of the driver was fantastic.

The Grand Prix cars of today are winged, fat sticky tired, electronically gadgeted (shift and traction control), Very fast.... and (to me at least) boring and aesthetically ugly and they all look so much alike. (Cars now race in corporate colors which is a turn off for me... in 1967 Italian cars were red, German were silver, Japanese were white, British in green and the US in blue).

Form follows function and time marches on I suppose.... but the Romantic appeal of the WW2 prop planes and the skill required to fly them and survive (let alone be victorius) is on par with the skill required to know just when and how much throttle to apply coming out of a hundred forty mile an hour bend so that one doesn't break traction and swap ends (but with modern computerized traction control... just mash it).

As to why I love them... as a kid, one of the first books I read was "Aircraft Spotters Handbook", a publication of the wartime civil defense authority. I guess I just grew fond of the shapes and I had sufficient relatives involved in that horrific struggle to get a taste of the desparation of the times.

Of course that led me to a study of history which is greatly abetted by "flying" in FB on the little known (to Americans) Eastern Front.

I will now insert a shameless plug for a Spanish Civil War theater... that is where it all started. I am hoping that Oleg is of like mind and that he is considering such, based on the new BoB game engine. (end of shameless plug).

Cheers

"Never Underestimate what a soldier will do in the defense of his country."
Gen Wesley Clark

Cpt_Rio
03-04-2004, 12:14 PM
With all the respect....

I Just LOVE WWII Atmosphere ! ! !

BlackHawkLeader
03-04-2004, 12:30 PM
I do not actualy make that preference anymore, and I have discovered I am not the only one.
Not since the release of Lomac anyway.

There are some very experienced FB regulars who now only fly in Lomac, and many who fly both in FB and Lomac.

Both Lomac and FB are great Sims, and complement each other.
I like the propellor driven age, and the realism and graphics of Lomac really opened up my eyes to the complexities and technology of modern Air War fare.
Bear in mind I used to be a totaly Anti Jet Sim person , until I actualy got around to trying Lomac.
Its interface is different and you have to re learn every thing, which pisses off the I want every thing yesterday Crowd.

However I think that could be yet another reason why some of the most experienced and dangerouse Online Combat opponents I have ever come accross Online in FB.
Now fly in a Jet Sim, to be specific Lomac!

Ironic isnt it, and pardon the Pun, but the Quality of Pilot I encounter in Lomac, is mostly Top Gun, the real Aces from FB.

I reckon they feel like I do, a breath of fresh air after nearly 3 years of flying in, IL-2/FB and Il-2 before that.
Not that there is anything wrong with FB, we know its the best prop Sim is out there.

Lomac however is in a class all of its own, and the numbers of people discovering it and flying Online is growing every day.

So no I do not make a preference between the prop age and the Jet age anymore.

S!

x6BL_Brando
03-04-2004, 12:36 PM
I was brought up on a flight path into Heathrow - give me a piston engine anytime!

03-04-2004, 12:38 PM
I spot him, he`s about 3 clicks away. Dive ! Engage methanol ! Wow, the DB is really loud now... he didn`t notice me.. shallow zoom... hehe, he still doesn`t see, I am under his rear fusalge.. less then a click away... THROTTLE BACK! BARREL ROLL! Now that`s a looser, STILL didn`t noticed me.. I am really close.. aha, he`s suspicious... he does some snaking to look behind... to late m8. His ailerons move slightly, he`s checking the 3-9 o clock low... hehe, no M8y, I am not there.. I am right behind ya. And I will wait. Wait more. I am gonna stick that barrell up yer azz. Wow, his slipstream throwing up and down my plane.. alright, enough of the fun.

Kill him.

Pull the trigger. Rhytmic thumping between me legs, the floorplate transfers the vibration of the cannon... ugly yellow shells leave the short barrel... four of them.. two giant flashes in front, filling the windscreen... smell of burn, I can feel the vibratrion on my face, in my nose, it takes my breath away, everythings bright as the whole world is on fire... small debris rocking my aircraft.

I look back below. The fusalge broke in two at the cocpit, the right wing started a life of it`s own... no parachute. Of course, how could there be one.

A minute later, 3 brief flashes below, one brighter than the others. Pillars of smoke.

Let`s look around and head home. Cruising rev, I rest myself while the Daimler sorrounds me with it`s purr.



VS.


Two bright green dot on the radar screen (RS).
Operator reports boogey.
6 seconds elapses. Operator reports boogey ID, Mig 29, 43 km away, closing in fast.
Main weapons swictch armed. ECM on. Radar passive.
Operator: No enemy radar scan on us.
Head for enemy to minimize radar signinture.
AWACS reports no further hostiles.

15 secs elapsed. ROE : Engage at will.

Enemy Mig 37 km away.

Operator reports ready.
Two AMRAAM lauched.

9 secs elapsed. Operator reports enemy evasive manouver, wingman on offense.

Dropping chaff.

Small flash in a distance. Trail of smoke down.
Operator reports loosing one contact on RS.

Dropping chaff and flares, evading. Climb towards sun.

Level out.
Turn to boogey.
Radar active.

30 sec elapsed.. Wingman locked in. 3rd AMRAAM launched.

11 sec elapesed. Bright flash 15 km away. Smoke.
Operator reports loosing 2nd contact.

AWACS confirms.
Order to operator to transmit Strike Group : Two MIGs positively destroyed. Airspace clear. Permission to land.
1 min
Permission granted. RTB.

---

I liked the 1st version better...

BlackHawkLeader
03-04-2004, 12:58 PM
Recently I was able to evade an F-15 Missle attack on me in a Su 27, that includes Radar and heat seekers.
Was not easy, some of those missles only missed me by a few feet and detonated just out of harms way.
It was a Wild ride in that Multiplayer session,
the realism level of technology used in Lomac is far more Complex than some bother to find out.
Remember FB is mostly dominated by the I want everything yesterday crowd.
Try flying in Ace Mode in Lomac with out AWACS.

You got to be Good, FB is easy by comparison.

03-04-2004, 01:03 PM
Simple.

Have we seen any wars with hundreds of jets in the air?

War is a terrible thing to happen, but ironically, the epic struggle that resides inside it brings a certain amount of fascination and respect to those who have fought it.

Of course, I don't intend to undermine those who have fought in jets in the more local wars after 1945.

But the wars after 1945 never had bad guys like the Nazis. Nor did it have a dramatic legend of a band of elites sadly fading away into history, like the path the Luftwaffe walked. Or, a dramatic scale of battle like the Battle of Britain where the fate of the whole nation lay in the hands of a band of pilots.

Fighting in small-scale scenarios, striking at local desert targets inside Iraq isn't all that bad, but it just doesn't compare with flying in the skies where they still use the puffy black flak. The gigantic formations of four-engined bombers, the desparate attacks of determined Luftwaffe planes, the long campaigns lasting for years, kill tallies going in the hundreds, the fight all over the world from the blue Pacific paradises, to the dark black oceans of the North Atlantic.

And of course, like people have already mentioned, the days when there was no missiles and radars, appeals to the gamers' hearts more than any jet sim does. At least, IMO, that is.

ucanfly
03-04-2004, 01:09 PM
I love jet sims, but it just so happens that IL2 is the best state of the art sim out there that I can run on my computer. I would be playing LOMAC if it wasn't that it didn't run on my mediocre system.

I still fly Janes F18 occasionally, and it has it's high points , but it is showing its age badly in certain perspectives (graphics mainly) and you only fly one plane, plus no track recording. STill has the best coms of any sim I"ve tried and a very playable 3d clickable cockpit, and decent modern weapons simulator. A real Gem badly in need of a graphics (maybe even FM) upgrade.

OTOH IL2 is arguably the "richest" sim perhaps to ever be made. So many flyables, from so many countries, with so much technical detail. It is irresistable for anyone interested in the WWII airwar. Another not often mentioned point is the track recording capability that IL2 has - this was one of the reasons I didn't even bother with CFS3 (it didn't have this). The cockpits on these aircraft are second to none in authenticity which approaches the "what would it have looked like to fly in one" watermark. Despite its planeset the FMs are very different and the developer is constantly improving it, makes it the best deal around.

SlickStick
03-04-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Kampfmeister:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SlickStick:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
The Tango de La Muerte of two prop planes maneuvering against each other for the clean shot, just does it for me I guess.;)
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

The Tango de La Muerte? Man, you are a Simpson's fanatic aren't you SlickStick?

WOOHOO! (_8(?)

___________________________
çk"*¯k 2004

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Coming Soon to a Six near you...:cool:

Bo_Nidle
03-04-2004, 01:22 PM
I'm a WW2 aviation nut so this sim is heaven to me.The other big plus is that its up close and personal combat with real involvment of the pilot.Modern jet combat such as in LOMAC is a bit sterile and uninvolving.(I have LOMAC too).



Bo_Nidle

"You've got to treat your kite like you treat your woman.Get inside her five times a day and take her to Heaven and back"
Lord Flashheart RFC 1917

DeerHunterUK
03-04-2004, 01:32 PM
There's nothing close to the feeling of getting onto the six of a MiG-17 in SFP1, switching to your AIM-9b (or AA2 Atoll if you fly Russian birds), letting 1 rip and knowing the bloody thing is gonna miss and you're gonna be relying on your guns once again. Frustrating but yet rewarding at the same time.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
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The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

HH Quazi
03-04-2004, 01:33 PM
I like the up close and personal venue. Getting air kills 50 km from the other guy just doesn't seem to do it for me. And in order to do that, you have to learn to operate the a/c's computer with your keyboard. Not much fun imo. Now I wouldn't mind dogfighting in jets, maybe like in Korea. That would be fun. As long as I can see what I'm shooting at. S!

Mitlov47
03-04-2004, 01:35 PM
Prop sims are primarily about maneuvering until you're close-in on your opponent's six, then opening fire. Jet sims aer partly about this, but partly about managing very complex electronic devices. Furthermore, missiles decrease the importance of getting close in on someone's six. I play flight sims to dogfight, so the former is better.

Anyway, there's just something cool about propeller aircraft. I can't explain it, but it's true.

---------------------------

"I hear the roar of a big machine; Two worlds and in between.
Love lost, fire at will; Dum-dum bullets and shoot to kill.
I hear dive bombers and Empire down, Empire down..."
--Sisters of Mercy

Overwhelming odds mean nothing compared to heroism and tenacity. Fly blue and white: Finnish Brewster Model 239 and Israeli BF-109.

Piaggio108
03-04-2004, 01:56 PM
I can get close and blast him with the 20s at low enough altitude to see the wreckage bounce back into the air. much more personal.

Black Sheep
03-04-2004, 02:06 PM
For all those of you who think that modern air combat is dull, give Falcon 4 (patched) a go and you'll learn that there ain't no such thing as a magic missile; and that come the merge, if you can't dogfight (including with short range infra red missiles) you're dead meat.

In addition you may also find that interpreting what the radar screen is showing you whilst maintaing SA isn't anywhere near as simple as you may think - and if you have to be 100% certain of what it is you're about to shoot down before opening fire, which many current theatres of war oblige you to do, you'll find that the only way to do it is visually. The radar ian't going to magically tell you what is it you're tracking, hence the occurence of blue on blue kills even today.

No offense meant, I personally think IL2 is the dog's nuts but I do think some of you are writing jet sims off without fully understanding how modern jets fly and fight.

Personally, I love sims from any and all combat eras, WWI - Gulf II.

The most important thing though I reckon is that people simply enjoy themselves no matter what era lights your fire - there aren't anywhere near as many sims around today as there used to which, in my view, is a bad thing.

Swivet
03-04-2004, 02:35 PM
Nostalgia i guess. The fact that those old rust buckets won wars with no radar and all guns baby, GUNS!

w\/ét

ThreeCrow
03-05-2004, 01:00 AM
Perhaps it also has to do with the sound. I spent a couple of years in the late sixties driving a power jeep on the flight deck. Just above my left shoulder was a huge Pratt and Whitney radial (S2F). When it fired up... well everything else was lost in that deep, resonant throb. To see and hear one of them deck launch (without the cat when the wind was right) was something to behold.

Jet sounds? Only ones we had aboard were on HS3A helos, Sikorsky Sea Kings.

We called them whistling sh*tcans.

Probably the reason my hearing is shot. (Or it could have been the Jefferson Airplane). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif)

Cheers

"Never Underestimate what a soldier will do in the defense of his country."
Gen Wesley Clark

Punik
03-05-2004, 02:55 AM
Personally, I like to SEE my foe and see all the kinds of weird stuff he is doing up there. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I also like the idea of seeing skins of other aircraft. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

------------------------------------
Online cheating kills online gaming! Death to all online cheating suckers!

Greetings to all who fly better than me, honor to all who ate my lead. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ELEM
03-05-2004, 02:57 AM
All the reasons already given. Plus, jets suck!

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

DeerHunterUK
03-05-2004, 06:21 AM
I'm just having a giggle about the amount of people who think jet sims are all the same and it's all about BVR missile firing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Keep em coming fellas. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

F19_Gazoo
03-05-2004, 06:25 AM
Well, I like to turn my plane! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner_D.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

F19_Orheim
03-05-2004, 06:35 AM
it's all about the sound http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

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NorrisMcWhirter
03-05-2004, 06:35 AM
Hi,

I can only comment that, with respect to modern jets, I don't like to shoot things from 58 miles away; shooting bits off your opponent as he tries to evade OR hitting him before he even knew what was coming is much more preferable.

Having said that, I do understand that there will be some sims using jets w/o radar and guided missiles - like FB for example (262, B1) - that allow you to do exactly the same.

I think it boils down to stereotyped nostalgia for me...I have mental pictures of RAF fighter crews running to their Spitfires, scrambling to meet the "nasty" LW (all clad in black leather jackets and smoking cigars, complaining about Tommies etc) and that is part and parcel of the propellor sim so that is what I prefer.

Cheers,
Norris


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WUAF_MJ_Prop
03-05-2004, 06:52 AM
Bottom line is WW2 planes -YOU fly the plane- Modern Jets -The plane flies YOU-

DONB3397
03-05-2004, 07:12 AM
For me, prop planes and WWII history are lifelong interests/passions. This incredible sim is the best virtual environment to indulge both. Also, I find the one-on-one combat in FB more interactive, more personal than the blip-warning-fire remoteness of modern jet combat (sims).

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The_Red_Spoon
03-05-2004, 08:35 AM
I prefer prop sims because they feel more realistic to me (possibly because you need a very good game engine and a very fast computer to simulate speed), and I like the lack of automation. Also, I think prop sims have much more exciting and intense air-to-air combat.

I like jet sims, but the experience is usually more cerebral and mission orientated (i.e. evade SAM battery X and drop bomb/missile on facility X) than a prop sim. I just don't have the time to immerse myself in games anymore, so the prop sims often win because of their instant thrills. For me, jet sims are about avoiding air-to-air engagements and destroying ground target X rather than looking for fights on purpose (IL-2 etc.)

(LOMAC is great, but my computer can't handle it)

adlabs6
03-05-2004, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackHawkLeader:
I do not actualy make that preference anymore, and I have discovered I am not the only one.
Not since the release of Lomac anyway.

There are some very experienced FB regulars who now only fly in Lomac, and many who fly both in FB and Lomac.

Both Lomac and FB are great Sims, and complement each other.
I like the propellor driven age, and the realism and graphics of Lomac really opened up my eyes to the complexities and technology of modern Air War fare.
Bear in mind I used to be a totaly Anti Jet Sim person , until I actualy got around to trying Lomac.
Its interface is different and you have to re learn every thing, which pisses off the I want every thing yesterday Crowd.

However I think that could be yet another reason why some of the most experienced and dangerouse Online Combat opponents I have ever come accross Online in FB.
Now fly in a Jet Sim, to be specific Lomac!

Ironic isnt it, and pardon the Pun, but the Quality of Pilot I encounter in Lomac, is mostly Top Gun, the real Aces from FB.

I reckon they feel like I do, a breath of fresh air after nearly 3 years of flying in, IL-2/FB and Il-2 before that.
Not that there is anything wrong with FB, we know its the best prop Sim is out there.

Lomac however is in a class all of its own, and the numbers of people discovering it and flying Online is growing every day.

So no I do not make a preference between the prop age and the Jet age anymore.

S!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bought LOMAC this week, and as you say a breath of fresh air IMO. I've been flying IL2 for two years now, and just having a different menu interface is like a whole new world, odd as it sounds.

Though at first I was not hot on the idea of learning or getting involved with a jet/missile sim after having heard all the "fire and forget is boring" reports. Well, so far, that report is nowhere near the truth. Flying the A-10, it takes some skill for me to get a kill on a modest SAM system, at least more/different skills that what it takes in an IL2 or Stuka to nail some AAA.

Mind you, not that ones better or worse, just very different, and both are very satisfying to play for me.

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Malik_VII
03-05-2004, 11:40 AM
I like them both. ILFB has my undivided attention right now because I've made some progress in the learning curve.
I also have Falcon 4 and F22 ADF (OK really old) but when "*****in betty" comes on and say "incoming missle" it's time to start doing some evasive moves and hope the chaff and flare work.To me it's as exciting and seeing tracers go by your ride.

CaptJodan
03-05-2004, 12:32 PM
For the longest time, I've switched back and forth between both jet sims and prop sims as to which I enjoyed more. However, just in the last few years I've begun to consider that my real love lies in props. (Or anti-missile sims, if you prefer. Love the new jets in AEP) I've used both FB and LOMAC for these trials, and simply find that that which draws me to sim combat is most notably in FB, and not as much in other jet sims.

For me, it is pretty much what everyone above has already said...magic missiles...or sometimes not so magical. In older WWII and Korean sims, when you fought the enemy, if you got shot down, or if you shot down someone, the majority of the kill belongs to you, because it's just you, your aircraft, and more or less straight firing bullets.

On the flipside, you have more modern jet sims which deal with the missile aspect. There is no shortage of skill required in actually doing all the steps of getting your different systems and sensors working properly to prepare for the kill, but once you let loose the missile, the actual kill belongs to the missile. You can improve a shot or make a shot worse, but the buttom line is that the actual kill depends on that missile...that it doesn't get spoofed, or that it's sensors and range are not of lower quality than your opponent, or they are higher quality, and your skill is in question because you've simply got the better missile than your opponent.

Plus, for me personally, you may be able to walk away from a few puncture holes in your wing from some enemy aircraft with a prop sim. The chances of getting a second chance to turn the tide against the enemy is rarer when you're hit by a missile

huggy87
03-05-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_MJ_Prop:
Bottom line is WW2 planes -YOU fly the plane- Modern Jets -The plane flies YOU-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems like there are a lot of misperceptions about modern air combat out there. Missiles are not magic, radars have a limited scan volume and cannot see everything out there, and everything happens at a much quicker pace. Many folks think everything happens BVR (beyond Visual Range), but guess what folks, theater commanders aren't going to risk a Blue on Blue or Blue on White and ROE will usually limit you to a VID. That means- DOGFIGHT!