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View Full Version : wat is it with the ki P.S WHINE!!!



FRAGAL
07-18-2004, 11:05 AM
wat exactly is the hype with the KI every server i go on recently there full of KI's just yesterday i was on server and the only different plane that was flying was a spit IXe cw and that was because i was flying it the rest were ki's and LA's now i know i'm whining so don't even bother replying if your going to be rude i'm trying to have a decent conversation here! but as i see it it's loads of people who've seen loads of other people flying the ki and seeing how well it does and starting to fly it, now if it was pilots who were flying them since they were first modelled i accept they chose that plane and learnt how to fly it properly i see some people who have real skill with the KI, but there are others mostly the majority who A: pick on aircraft as they take off or B: remain so high and BnZ every1 they see and stay so fast no one can catch them, now that's nothing my cat could probably do it!!! i have now got to the point where i hate the thing (and that takes a lot)
regards
fragal

[This message was edited by FRAGAL on Sun July 18 2004 at 10:18 AM.]

FRAGAL
07-18-2004, 11:05 AM
wat exactly is the hype with the KI every server i go on recently there full of KI's just yesterday i was on server and the only different plane that was flying was a spit IXe cw and that was because i was flying it the rest were ki's and LA's now i know i'm whining so don't even bother replying if your going to be rude i'm trying to have a decent conversation here! but as i see it it's loads of people who've seen loads of other people flying the ki and seeing how well it does and starting to fly it, now if it was pilots who were flying them since they were first modelled i accept they chose that plane and learnt how to fly it properly i see some people who have real skill with the KI, but there are others mostly the majority who A: pick on aircraft as they take off or B: remain so high and BnZ every1 they see and stay so fast no one can catch them, now that's nothing my cat could probably do it!!! i have now got to the point where i hate the thing (and that takes a lot)
regards
fragal

[This message was edited by FRAGAL on Sun July 18 2004 at 10:18 AM.]

Bamatt
07-18-2004, 12:30 PM
They are pretty uber but cn be dealt with like any other plane. I think they are way too rugged though, IMHO.

Yesterday I was buzzing around in a yak, and a C model took 7 rounds from my 37mm, and all I got was a fuel leak.

FRAGAL
07-18-2004, 01:44 PM
definitely to rugged, i emptied my guns into one of em once slightly damaged but nothing significant an la finished him off for me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

VF-10_Snacky
07-18-2004, 01:56 PM
It's tuff flying US planes in these servers. IF a 37mm cant bring these things down imagine how fustrating trying to down them with .50 cals is.LOL

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Waldo.Pepper
07-18-2004, 02:13 PM
I am kind of down on online play recently...

I like historical planesets skins, tactics... matchups, and this is rare unheard of in my experience.

I know everone is entitled to their opinion, so here's mine. It bothers me that everyone *****es and moans so much to get an accurate sim (rather than a game)... Then they all go and fly whatever they want (regardless of historical accuracy) paint their plame orange or something...and think this is fun..

OK I feel better! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BS87
07-18-2004, 03:29 PM
The . key is your friend.... without it, your post is hard to read.

FRAGAL
07-18-2004, 04:11 PM
in my experience (and i have a lot of it) probably one of the oldest registered posters here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif the KI is the most used plane at the moment becos it is so easy to fly it's like the LA was back in the days of il2 i'm taling version 1 here.

Bearcat99
07-18-2004, 04:32 PM
The deal is this... many who fly in DF servers arent interested in anything but shooting down the next guy.. its a guy thing.. the competitive thing.. so they get the plane that will give them the biggest advantage if they cant really fly or dont want to be bothered with learning a plane. The KI is an easy plane to fly and win in. It was the same way in CFS1 where all the guys who just wanted to "play" were flying Hurricaines while the more serious flyers were flying Mustangs, or Spits or even Jugs or 190s which were not easy to master and stay alive in in CFS1 since the FMs wer so $hitty. IMO DF servers are for kids. The more mature DF server lovers fly scripted servers at least... and they arent afraid to vary the plane set either because they have skill and they are not afraid of competition. Or they fly COOPs which IMO is where it is really at anyway.

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IMMERSION BABY!!

Bull_dog_
07-18-2004, 06:12 PM
I agree w/ bearcat... in most DF servers, people jump in the toughest aircraft around and start shooting.

The Ki is probably the most unrealistic (imho) FM&DM in the game...and I say that because its performance doesn't fall off w/ altitude and it is way too tough. Japanese planes, even the late war ones, were not structurally strong compared to Luftwaffe and US/British aircraft.
The Japanese developed self sealing tanks, but the didn't work well at all so late war aircraft were still easy to light up... I absolutely gave up on the Ki a few weeks ago when one climbed after me and chased me down at 7000-7500meters while I was flying a Mustang...that altitude being the optimum altitude for the mustang. I have never, nor has any person ever produced any reasonably credible data stating the Ki was faster than the Mustang at that altitude.

W/ all those 20 and30mm cannons, it is a killing machine. There are other aircraft that fit that bill too and hopefully they will all be tuned better in the upcoming patches. Which aircraft are the best? Just see which ones folks fly the most on DF servers... Ki's, La's, 109K's and Z's, Yak 3P's etc...

VW-IceFire
07-18-2004, 09:24 PM
I believe that overall the Ki-84 is just fine. Its in the details that its kind of messed up. What we have represents the Ki-84 at its peak. What we don't have is when its performance declines. Its very strange.

I've tested its roll rate for instance and it doesn't change much until about 450 mph where it starts to lock up. Till that point, it snap rolls a full 360 in about 2 seconds.

I've read that at 350 mph the Ki-84 controls get heavy and sluggish, much like the Yak-3 and Yak-9's do I imagine. So the problem online is when I take a Ki-84 for a dive with me in a heavier plane...I should be able to out dive him which I can't (but thats a common thing), I also should (depending on the plane - say FW190) have a much better control response at that speed.

Still...I have respect for the plane. I know it was one of the best that Japanese aviation was able to construct. Despite lack of materials and despite serious manufacturing problems.

It is annoying (for varieties sake) when you do see an entire server full of them (and all Ki-84c's no less). I prefer the scenarios that are scripted and with historical variety. So it may be Zero's and P-40's, or Spitfires and Jug's VS FW190A's, or it could be Ki-84's up against Mustangs.

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WUAF_Badsight
07-18-2004, 10:28 PM
beyond any reasonable doubt the DM on the KI is weird

it flys so horrid when its taken hits

yet its hard to bust one apart

i dont think anyone who complains about the KIs speed has a leg to stand on anymore ...... its bang on correct

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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lrrp22
07-18-2004, 10:39 PM
"i dont think anyone who complains about the KIs speed has a leg to stand on anymore ...... its bang on correct"

That is a thouroughly uninformed statement, Badsight. The machinations and logical gymnastics required to justify that conclusion are extensive.

The Ki-84 in FB is modeled to very generous U.S. estimates of performance and not actual wartime performance, period.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
beyond any reasonable doubt the DM on the KI is weird

it flys so horrid when its taken hits

yet its hard to bust one apart

i dont think anyone who complains about the KIs speed has a leg to stand on anymore ...... its bang on correct

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WUAF_Badsight
07-18-2004, 10:47 PM
thats not true & what makes that a lie is that you know it

"estimates" . . . . . pffff

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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Slammin_
07-18-2004, 11:16 PM
As fun as the Ki-84C is to fly and kill with, it upsets play balance too much. Regardless.

lrrp22
07-18-2004, 11:26 PM
Evidence, Badsight? I didn't think so...


Here is a quote from butch2k's TAIC manual, the source of the performance numbers that you claim are "bang on correct" for a wartime Ki-84.

-From a section entitled 'Performance Calculations' (*_* emphasis mine):

"Except where otherwise stated, performance figures represent *estimations* of the Tactical Air Intelligence Center and have been *calculated* after a careful analysis of information derived from intelligence, captured equipment, drawings and photographs, using power ratings derived from the same sources. When authoritative evidence is not available, it is the policy of TAIC to give the Japanese Aircraft Performance *every benefit of the doubt* within reasonable limits."

To this point, there is no indication that the Ki-84 data from the TAIC manual meets the "Except where otherwise stated" qualifier. By the TAIC manual's own criteria, the data is estimated and calculated.

The 427 mph figure has become a conclusion searching for evidence and not a conclusion that has been derived from existing evidence. The justification to be found on the 'j-aircraft.com' discussion board is a good example of this. The analysis is interesting and well thought-out but it still requires some undocumented assumptions and liberal doses of the TAIC's "every benefit of the doubt".

Before you throw out the 'liar' epithet, you would be well-served to present even the slightest bit of evidence to support your statements. All that is clear so far is that you like the fact that the Ki-84 performs at the levels it does in FB: beyond that, nothing.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
thats not true & what makes that a lie is that you know it

"estimates" . . . . . pffff

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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[This message was edited by lrrp22 on Sun July 18 2004 at 10:36 PM.]

LuftLuver
07-18-2004, 11:35 PM
Slammin puts it very well.

You get as few as 2 good players in the Kic and the whole server is fubar. You will get on one and begin to pick away at that rediculous damage model and his buddy simply pulls in behind, closes his eyes and "point and clik you are ded."

Stay away from the kiddie servers. They all eventually degenerate into Ki's vs Yak3P and La7s.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"All your bases are belong to us."

WUAF_Badsight
07-19-2004, 12:51 AM
http://www.j-aircraft.org/bbs/army_config.pl?read=9753

nuff said

people that *know*

i think your miffed that the hayate actually was as good as it is

Lrrp you have always tried to see how the proof posted was incorrect , even the CSU defective Hayate did 400 k/mh at 6k in british hands

case closed !

mustang owned !

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BennyMoore
07-19-2004, 01:24 AM
Next I suppose it turned as well as it does in the game? You are aware that it's a great turner, although no one ever seems to notice that. I can outturn quite a few planes with it.

And how about the everlasting energy? Hmm?

WUAF_Badsight
07-19-2004, 01:30 AM
yes benny it was a great turning A/C

similer turn time to the LA-7

high power loading

low wing loading

flaps designed for combat

in FB it gets out-turned by a few planes still , especially the C model

it doesnt suit how i DF , but after reading about it , the only conclusion is that it has a lot **** posted about it from people who are either fans of american planes or biased against stuff that is japanese

cause they are either wrong or lying

& btw , no plane in FB has everlasting energy , you have been saying that for like a week , some planes keep E way better than others & some pilots are better at it than others , but no Plane can helicopter like the FV v1.0 Bf-109 K4 could anymore

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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SUPERAEREO
07-19-2004, 03:16 AM
The Ki.84 does seem to be more resistant to enemy fire than it should perhaps be. The only other thing I can say is that it also seems to be VERY fast at altitude, but this could be right, I don't really know.

It is a good plane to get a fast kill in, and the C version is positively a lethal weapon with its 20 and 30mm guns: a short burst from those and any other plane will fall to earth in pieces.

Other than that it's certainly not invincible and I love it when I manage to shoot one down with a Mustang.

At the end of the day people fly whatever gives them some satisfaction, but let's not forget that D/F rooms seem to go through "fads": at one time anyone after a fast kill was flying that blasted 109 Z, the plane that never existed...

If (unlike me) you fly high and clever and avoid being in the middle of a furball with three bandits on your tail, the Ki.84 is just a target to pick on and shoot downwhen you are in a favourable position, like any other plane.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger

"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Große

"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - *neid

JG52MadAdler
07-19-2004, 03:31 AM
The answer is simple enough.
Do what I do "Host"
Set up a DF map with the planes you like.
I host on HL Wed. nights 11:30 EST
DAK 41
DAK 42 Tobruk
Normandy 44
Look! no Ki's or La's

~S~


Fliege mit Mut, Fliege mit Ehre

tfu_iain1
07-19-2004, 05:29 AM
too true, i much prefer servers that just cut out the silly planes

i only fly the ki84 when i cant find a fast server that doesnt have it, and everyone is flying it. then you have to fly the damn thing just to compete

lrrp22
07-19-2004, 08:02 AM
Wrong, Badsight.

The British *estimated* that it could do 400 mph at 20,000 ft- if it was in perfect running order. What they actually got with the defective CSU isn't stated. As tested it couldn't outrun a Seafire L III at that height, which isn't saying much.

Your link is the example of estimation and calulation under "every benefit of the doubt" circumstances that I referred to.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
http://www.j-aircraft.org/bbs/army_config.pl?read=9753

nuff said

people that *know*

i think your miffed that the hayate actually was as good as it is

Lrrp you have always tried to see how the proof posted was incorrect , even the CSU defective Hayate did 400 k/mh at 6k in british hands

case closed !

mustang owned !

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NorrisMcWhirter
07-19-2004, 09:48 AM
Hi,

Ki84 uber? It's (C version) cannons are deadly but I don't think the DM is dodgy (v2.01).

Spray the thing from a P51 or P40 in a slashing attack and it goes down. It doesn't explode easily but it's quite easy to get a PK or disable the control surfaces.

Yep, it turns well but a P51 will turn with it, or at least I can get a P51 to turn with it and I consider myself to be 'Mr turn ability' at all.

If anything has a faulty DM it's the P63 and, from the patch readme, there appears to have been nothing done to rectify that.

Cheers,
Norris

PS: Badsight - You made a valid point.

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WOLFMondo
07-19-2004, 09:58 AM
Most of the time I've taken down a Ki84 is a PK, shooting off a control surface which brings it into line or put so many rounds into it that its fuel tanks empty. Its definatly a tough customer but the fuel tanks are the real weakness IMHO.

When ever I fly it (is that sacrilage around here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif I like the IJN planes) the usual reason for having to bail is the fuel tanks get shot and I run out of fuel. Its quite rare to get actually shot out the sky by loosing a wing or tail.

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geetarman
07-19-2004, 11:27 AM
Bring 'em on, I say! I handled them nicely this past weekend online in my P-38!

gates123
07-19-2004, 11:36 AM
wow what game are you guys playing. Since the last patch the KI online is a matchstick like its early cousin the Zero. Trying aiming for the wings, they snap right off and or catch fire quick.

http://www.fightingcolors.com/custompagestuff/b17visibility72.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

Sultan_of_Swing
07-19-2004, 02:20 PM
"As fun as the Ki-84C is to fly and kill with, it upsets play balance too much. Regardless."


I agree totally.

It attracts an element that just wants to blow stuff up. These are same guys who made the Yak K the bottom feeder/thug plane back in Il2 days. Now, in FB, the Ki 84C is the new bottom feeder/thug plane.

I wish servers could limit the number of them per night. Say 8 KI 84 c's per night. Period. Once used up, the lil fellas who want to blow stuff up will mosey over to another server to spread their brand of skill there.

"check out guitar-George, he knows all the chords...."

NORAD_prowlr_UK
07-19-2004, 02:42 PM
I think someone stated 'if you dont like it, make your own server and remove the 'ubers''
personally i like earlier stuff ( no later than 1943) however you will (like i did) find servers with the 'silly' stuff left out.
in conclusion: 1 start your own game and select the planes you want. 2 try different servers because some can be relied upon to have good selections and map rotations (Janos71 for example)

BennyMoore
07-19-2004, 09:03 PM
I believe I mentioned the time when I was nearly two kilometers directly above one and he climbed straight up without stopping until he was exactly at my height, then proceeded to catch me? Or the time I was three kilometers above a pair of them and decided to bug out, but couldn't lose them at full throttle at high altitude? Five minutes later I had to crash land because they were right on my tail. I think Geetarman's full of ****.

Anyway, I don't feel like talking to you Ki guys any more, because you're all full of gassy beans.

WUAF_Badsight
07-19-2004, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
I mentioned the time when I was nearly two kilometers directly above one and he climbed straight up without stopping until he was exactly at my height,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

now thats a load of bull , not even a K4 can climb stright up for 2 km

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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BennyMoore
07-20-2004, 12:06 AM
It wasn't quite two kilometers, but it was at least a kilometer and a half. Icons were on at the time, and he was directly below me.

Are you calling me a liar or him a cheater?

WUAF_Badsight
07-20-2004, 03:34 AM
i know how the KI climbs

the Only plane to ever do a 2 Km stright up climb in FB was the helicopter K4 from FB v1.0

incorrect speed / climb management is why guys in FW190-A4s get caught by other guys in Spitfire mk5s

sure the Spitfire keeps E better , but in its best climb speed the FW-A4 can climb away from Spitfire Mk5s

whats the climb rate of the p-38 ? is it actually supposed to be better than the KI or can a Ki-84 actually catch Lightning's in climb

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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Owl_NZ
07-20-2004, 04:51 AM
Well, ok if people are hitting the thing with 37mm's and it isn't going down then yes that sounds wrong. But it shouldn't go down like a Zero, it was much better damage-absorption-wise than that.

Part of the problem here is that people see "Japanese plane" and think "right, the Zero is a torch if you hit it, so this thing must be one as well". Thus every Japanese plane gets labelled as something that should vanish in a huge fireball if you happen to get a pistol round with 5m (metres or miles, take your pick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ) of it.

One thing that is annoying is these ones screaming "well, it never flew that well because it didn't have good servicing/good fuel/good pilot/good paintscheme" (fill in any others as well). So f**kin' what?! That applies to ALL planes being used in the field away from the factory and/or regular servicing by proper depots. Comparing things in ideal test conditions is fine if you want to accurately determine results, but those results have no relevance in the REAL WORLD, because in the real world no situation is ever IDEAL.

Most books I've seen say the Frank was better at climbing and turning than the US planes (usually refers to P47 & P-51), but was slower (in other words BnZ tactics are de-riguer to shoot one down, just like with Zeros). Gee, I remember saying when the P-51 flyable turned up that this place would get filled with 9yo's whining because they'd been brought up to believe that the Mustang outturned/outrun/outgunned/outsurvived etc everything in the entire world and they'd get a shock when they went after the Frank. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

As for complaining about them online, that is hardly fair. For one, packet loss/transfer speed/bandwidth etc all play a part in ANY online gaming, and two, online players are only 10% of the players of the program. Perhaps, instead of complaining that the Hayate is too good because you can't shoot it down, maybe you should ask Oleg to produce an Arcade-version for online play where all the planes have the same performance and only differ by shape and load-out (or if that's unacceptable have a radio-button switch where you set which side gets the uber-planes performance and the rest are cannon(or machine-gun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)-fodder, just so it suits your take on history. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif That way, those who want a quick online kill fix can do so, while those who want accurate planes off-line are unaffected by people whinging until Oleg is forced to make changes in line with some people's history rather than the facts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

FRAGAL
07-20-2004, 07:42 AM
1. i wish people would read the first post
2. i'm not complaining about the FM / DM or anything else like that
3. i think the KI is a perfectly good plane and it's well modelled.
4. i hate the the plane because of it's constant use online where you go onto a server and it's full of em
5. read the first post!

Ki_Rin
07-20-2004, 10:14 AM
I hear ya, FRAGAL, I also see in most online df arcade style servers, a lot, if not most pilots flying "crutch" types...usually La7s (3xB20), 109K (no thankfully not as often anymore the Z), various Yaks, and of course, more often than not, the Ki841C...
I like the JP stuff, and I like the Ki 84s...if I ever do choose to fly the Ki, I prefer the 1A version...
I feel ppl who use the 1C model have no sense of challenge, and I think of them with utter disdain...mind you, I find more and more I have to jump in a 1C as well, because whoever says, "its the pilot, not the plane" is ALL WET! sure, the pilot makes a huge diff, but then Im sure THEY wont fly a G.50 vs a Ki841C, now, would they? hehe
Yes, FRAGAL, lots of babies in Ki841Cs, and yes, it IS frustrating...just remember, that most of them are probably lesser pilots, and only fly the 1C to make up for a lack of skill, honour, or ."girth"
too bad, really...a big problem I have with the 1C is, not only that so many feebs use it, is that the 30mm have that silly muzzle flash, and ground explosion, which causes LAG...

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

NorrisMcWhirter
07-20-2004, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
It wasn't quite two kilometers, but it was at least a kilometer and a half. Icons were on at the time, and he was directly below me.

Are you calling me a liar or him a cheater?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, Benny, you omitted a small minor point....

You didn't say what the ki84 had been doing prior to climbing up 2km to catch you..Was he, by any chance, in a shallow dive from your high 6 before pulling up with a good amount of E or, better still, pulling up out of a steep dive to come up beneath you?

I forget the amount of times I've seen people accused of cheating/flying a UFO etc just because they've pulled off something clever. I know cos I wonder myself, sometimes, like the other day when I find an I16 suddenly matching my climb in a 109G2.

Has he got an uber plane too?

This simply boils down to it being a Japanese plane that is good. The cannons make short work of pretty much anything, especially P51s, and the legacy mindset pertaining to the DM (faulty in the past) is still in existence.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

tttiger
07-20-2004, 10:44 AM
lrrp22, you are wrong.

The 427 mph wasn't an "estimate," it was data from test flights at Middletown Air Depot, Pennsylvania in the spring of 1946.

At 20,000 feet with a representative combat weight of 7,490 pounds (max weight was 7,955 pounds), a KI-84 hit 427 mph. At the same altitude, a P-51D-25-NA flew at 424 mph and a P-47D-35-RA flew at 405 mph.

It is often argued that those tests were flawed because the Frank was flown with high octane US fuel instead of the lower octane gasoline used by Japan late in the war. Probably some truth in that, but those were the test results. NOT estimates.

You can find it in Rene Francillon's "Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War" published by the Naval Institute Press, pretty much the standard reference on all WWII Japanese aircraft. You do own copy of that, don't you, lrrp? Anyone who is interested in WWII air war history considers it an "essential" reference.

Now, as to the "popularity" of any plane in a DF arena, who cares if the plane is accurate or not? NO ONE who flies in a DF arena is interested in historical accuracy -- or they wouldn't be in a DF arena in the first place.

DF Arenas are the sandboxes where we put all the arcaders so they won't bother the simmers in the Coops with their childish antics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

BennyMoore
07-21-2004, 03:48 AM
No, he had taken off about thirty seconds before, and I was watching him take off and debating whether to dive on him or not.

Anyway, there's no way you'll ever get me to believe that the Ki-84 was that good in real life. If you Japanophiles want to believe that, go ahead. Apparently Oleg does, so you don't have to convince anyone.

By the way, would you like to convince me that Richard Bong was never spotted by a Ki-84?

WUAF_Badsight
07-21-2004, 04:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:

Anyway, there's no way you'll ever get me to believe that the Ki-84 was that good in real life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Benny . . .

the Japanese were not backwards country hicks

your really coming off as an ignorant American now dude

have you ever reseached the Hayates specs for yourself ?!?!?!?

the thing is a Beast

there is nothing in its specs to lead you to the conclusion that it was a **** fighter

it has all the qualitys that fighters of the era wanted

fast

excellent climb

excellent turn

great armament

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

pacettid
07-21-2004, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I am kind of down on online play recently...

I like historical planesets skins, tactics... matchups, and this is rare unheard of in my experience.

I know everone is entitled to their opinion, so here's mine. It bothers me that everyone *****es and moans so much to get an accurate sim (rather than a game)... Then they all go and fly whatever they want (regardless of historical accuracy) paint their plame orange or something...and think this is fun..

OK I feel better! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want historical planesets, cockpits, and realistic scenarios, come to the Fallen Angel's Server. We're up on HL and you can see our settings and a list of the maps on our website: http://www.fallenangels.dynu.com/

All the best, Don

NorrisMcWhirter
07-21-2004, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:

Anyway, there's no way you'll ever get me to believe that the Ki-84 was that good in real life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Benny . . .

the Japanese were not backwards country hicks

your really coming off as an ignorant American now dude

have you ever reseached the Hayates specs for yourself ?!?!?!?

the thing is a Beast

there is nothing in its specs to lead you to the conclusion that it was a **** fighter

it has _all_ the qualitys that fighters of the era wanted

fast

excellent climb

excellent turn

great armament

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, no, no, Badsight - you got it all wrong. It can't be any good - it's Japanese! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't consider the Ki84 to be uber in v2.01 and that's flying against them. Once you get a system for dealing with them, they're manageable.

TBH, I don't know what the whining is about.


Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

TacticalYak3
07-21-2004, 06:37 AM
I have been guilty of flying this plane when low on points in a server. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I think it is a fair comment that she is one of the most lethal planes in the game.

As for other planes, like the P-38, taking her (especially taking her easily) that hasn't been my experience.

1 vs 1 matchup she is deadly indeed. In a mostly horizontal plane only the Yak-3 has the ability, and even then if she gets even 1 shot it is curtains. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Perhaps these other accounts are "bounces" folks have taken on the Ki-84 in a dogfight mission?

Well, with regards to such planes and matchups everyone wanted all these non-Eastern front planes, and few seem to host with appropriate plane sets so this is the "mess" we sometimes find ourselves in.

TactS!

___________________________________________

"My Luftwaffe is invincible . . . And so now we turn to England. How long will this one last - two, three weeks?" (Hermann Goring, June 1940)

:FI:TacticalS!