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View Full Version : Duds dam**t!



Yellonet
08-03-2004, 11:14 AM
Posted about duds a while ago, but as this didn't get the attention it deserved...

Why isn't anyone talking about duds.. this should an integral part in any combat sim, especially FB/PF as this is the game that sets the standard.

Also bombs should work on land as they do on water - bounce if dropped in a shallow angle (not as much on land though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). They shouldn't explode unless the tip is smashed in or if they're shot.. As it is now the bombs explode if you drop them when standing on the ground... clearly this isn't right.. and possibly not very hard to remedy?

I know there are quite a few persons out there who likes realistic details in games. Well speak up! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And... don't be a "funny guy" and post something about milk-duds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


- Yellonet

Yellonet
08-03-2004, 11:14 AM
Posted about duds a while ago, but as this didn't get the attention it deserved...

Why isn't anyone talking about duds.. this should an integral part in any combat sim, especially FB/PF as this is the game that sets the standard.

Also bombs should work on land as they do on water - bounce if dropped in a shallow angle (not as much on land though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). They shouldn't explode unless the tip is smashed in or if they're shot.. As it is now the bombs explode if you drop them when standing on the ground... clearly this isn't right.. and possibly not very hard to remedy?

I know there are quite a few persons out there who likes realistic details in games. Well speak up! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And... don't be a "funny guy" and post something about milk-duds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


- Yellonet

Fennec_P
08-03-2004, 11:27 AM
This has actually come up a number of times.

The concensus is generally that the main causes of duds, defects in the bomb, or improper bomb handling, would not apply to the game, as it assumes equipment is always in working order (ie, no gun jams). As these factors would be beyond the players control, duds would randomly punish the player for no good reason.

Conversely, a dud torpedo would be mainly caused by impact angle or improper dropping, which would be within the players control. This would not randomly punish the player.

I think I have seen bombs skip on ground before. At least, I remember reading about bombs skipping on concrete in a patch readme.

Yellonet
08-03-2004, 11:36 AM
It would obviously be optionable. Bomb Duds enabled/disabled, Torpedo Duds enabled/disabled.


- Yellonet

Obi_Kwiet
08-03-2004, 02:18 PM
We computers users have bugs to make up for the lack of duds. Any one who would want both must surely be a masochist.

Yellonet
08-03-2004, 02:20 PM
Well IL-2 is actually quite bug-free http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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VF-17_Jolly
08-03-2004, 03:17 PM
Dud bombs yes and bombs that cause damage underwater too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.skyknights.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jolly.jpg

Alexander_Seil
08-03-2004, 04:05 PM
I definitely seen bombs skip (well, roll, really) on the ground in my tracks. Depends on your fuse settings...if it's at .5 seconds, it isn't going to roll far http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stansdds
08-03-2004, 06:44 PM
Seems to me that machine guns would sometimes jam in European Air War. This was a problem with the P-51B/C Mustangs if a pilot fired the guns while pulling g's. For full realism, these things should be modeled.

VF-3Thunderboy
08-03-2004, 09:59 PM
It should be on/off, Early American Torpedos were notoriously ineffective, but who wants to fly for 20 minutes and have a dud.Negative Gs,Aluminum ammo belts affected the F4f-3 Wildcat. Brewster Buffalos in Singapore sometimes fired "3" bullets, then all guns jammed, not too much fun there.CFS2 has "dice" modeled into the sim, to immitate some element of random, and it works. I have pounded (1%Avhistory)CFS2 Betties, Zekes, etc. and sometimes you get em with one squirt, sometimes you dont. Very "realistic".

Id vote for the On/ Off option.

Copperhead310th
08-03-2004, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
This has actually come up a number of times.

The concensus is generally that the main causes of duds, defects in the bomb, or improper bomb handling, would not apply to the game, as it assumes equipment is always in working order (ie, no gun jams). As these factors would be beyond the players control, duds would randomly punish the player for no good reason.

Conversely, a dud torpedo would be mainly caused by impact angle or improper dropping, which would be within the players control. This would not randomly punish the player.

I think I have seen bombs skip on ground before. At least, I remember reading about bombs skipping on concrete in a patch readme.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i goota go with fennec on this one guys.
nice try there yellonet but this ones staing in the ball park. i really don't see the benifit of this. torps mabey....bombs....no.

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310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.310thVFS.com)

Yellonet
08-04-2004, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
This has actually come up a number of times.

The concensus is generally that the main causes of duds, defects in the bomb, or improper bomb handling, would not apply to the game, as it assumes equipment is always in working order (ie, no gun jams). As these factors would be beyond the players control, duds would randomly punish the player for no good reason.

Conversely, a dud torpedo would be mainly caused by impact angle or improper dropping, which would be within the players control. This would not randomly punish the player.

I think I have seen bombs skip on ground before. At least, I remember reading about bombs skipping on concrete in a patch readme.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i goota go with fennec on this one guys.
nice try there yellonet but this ones staing in the ball park. i really don't see the benifit of this. torps mabey....bombs....no.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
_http://www.310thVFS.com
_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It would be a realism option... so why not?

You have to agree with the fact that bombs shouldn't explode if the "primer" (?) isn't activated.

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Yellonet
08-04-2004, 04:24 PM
*kicking to the top*

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TimTam27
08-05-2004, 01:26 AM
I am with Yellownet. I think that duds, especially US torpedoes,are a great idea. I remember the ancient old sim Battlehawks 1942 incorporated dud torpedoes. The conditions for a successful drop were very, very difficult to achieve, requiring an approach with a suicidally low speed and very low altitude.
I remember attacking a IJN carrier group in a Devestator. Battling past the Zero CAP then running the guantlet of the heavy AAA at the speed of 80 kts and altitude of 60 ft needed for a successful torpedo launch. After dropping the fish and seeing it running hot and straight towards the target. Then going to full throttle to get out of there as quickly as possible dodging more flak and fighters only then to get a text on the screen "Torpedo Hit DUD". It was frustrating but every time it happened you would remember this is what it was like to fly a Devestator into combat in 1942. To know in a very small part what it was actually like. To me, that is what you want from a simulation.

Yellonet
08-05-2004, 03:39 AM
If duds are modeled, the size of the attacking force will become even more vital to the mission success, and as a result will hopfully lead to more realistic multiplayer missions (more bombers).

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Jason Bourne
08-05-2004, 05:56 PM
duds are essential to this game, especially for US torps, which in the beginning just plain sucked. also, for all you talking about having gun jams, go play AEP more, it seems i cant go 2 missions in a I-16 or I-153 with out one of the guns jamming. but there needs to be different dud potential depending on the bomb, fuses, and what side, ie: late war German bombs have a higher chance of being a dud, becuase of material defects and slave labor sabotage (sp?). also for Pacific, i kinda want to see torpedos that dont go straight all the time, or maybe they break up when they hit the water from to much speed. and my final suggestion: make the magnetic firing pins in torpedos unreliable, there are accounts of them exploding up to 300m away from the ship they were launched at.

oh, and maybe for late war maps, give the americans the acoustical torpedos.

icrash
08-05-2004, 09:14 PM
As much as I dislike the idea of flying through hell only to end up with a bad torp, they should be in the game from a realistic standpoint. I'm also working on the assumption that I'll actually get near the target in the first place. Low and slow means your fighter cover better have its act together and keep the CAP busy. I don't mind flying on the deck, but the slow part is a problem at least for me. No sense in making the opposition's life easy IMO. Oh, before I forget, sorry 'bout the milk duds thing. I had way too much sugar and caffeine at the time that went down.

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