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View Full Version : Who would like to See Lancasters in AEP ?



Lord-Raptor
08-18-2004, 03:15 PM
Im a big fan of the lancaster, do u guys want to see it?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif THE LANCASTER http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Adolf Hitler asked Hermann Goering "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Goering Replied "A squadron of Spitfires"

Lord-Raptor
08-18-2004, 03:15 PM
Im a big fan of the lancaster, do u guys want to see it?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif THE LANCASTER http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Adolf Hitler asked Hermann Goering "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Goering Replied "A squadron of Spitfires"

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 03:16 PM
Yes, of course

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Arm_slinger
08-18-2004, 03:18 PM
Yep they would be nice.

Oh and btw, see the sig Raptor http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

242Sqn_Kye on HL

"Target for Tonight" the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

www.nightbomber.com/forums (http://www.nightbomber.com/forums)
Also the home of 242 Squadron

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/Kyebromley/untitled4.bmp

bazzaah2
08-18-2004, 03:19 PM
yup, could make a nice Falaise pocket campaign around that, though don't hold your breath, even for the best heavy bomber of ww2!

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

Lord-Raptor
08-18-2004, 03:21 PM
Spitfires to my left , Lancasters to the right
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Adolf Hitler asked Hermann Goering "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Goering Replied "A squadron of Spitfires"

ASH at S-MART
08-18-2004, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
Im a big fan of the lancaster, do u guys want to see it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>At this point I would be happy with just about any heavy allied bomber to fly!

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Riat2002/Lancaster/LancasterLiftingOff.jpg

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
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PBNA-Boosher
08-18-2004, 03:35 PM
I challenge the "best bomber of WW2" statement! When the B17 is finished by AliantdII and someone makes a Lancaster cockpit, let's both of us do a bombing run side by side and see who hits most accurately, then we'll dogfight each other with our big birds and see who goes down first!

Then again, a bomber isn't worth a damn without its crew and payload...

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

JR_Greenhorn
08-18-2004, 03:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
I challenge the "best bomber of WW2" statement! When the B17...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'll challenge that too, but the honour must go to the B-29. What else even compares?


That said, it would be great to have a Lancaster. Do you suppose they would have to change much to the basic model to have a bouncing bomb version for dambusting and anti-shipping?

http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/F2G-1D.jpg

bazzaah2
08-18-2004, 04:24 PM
ook, so I forgot about the B29, which was an awesome plane.

Now the bouncing bomb bit would be fun; the skill level of those dam raids was just astonishing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

PBNA-Boosher
08-18-2004, 04:34 PM
Dam buster raid was an awesome raid, to be sure. And daring.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Lord-Raptor
08-18-2004, 04:52 PM
It shows the awesome skill level of the raf pilots! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Adolf Hitler asked Hermann Goering "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Goering Replied "A squadron of Spitfires"

Ki_Rin
08-18-2004, 04:58 PM
Yes, of course I would liek to see a Lanc in AEP

But lets get all the AI types flyable, THEN move on to others...

The best bomber of WWII? surely you refer to "heavy", 4 engine types, because sorry boys, Lanc and B-17 don't cut it...it would be the A/B-26 Invader, if not for the DH 96...the MOSSIE! (also a contender for best fighter, best recon, best anti-shipping, best liason, best high-speed transport, best "stealth", best night-fighter, best use of non-essential materials, best aesthetics, best etc etc etc lol)

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

p1ngu666
08-18-2004, 05:03 PM
ya lanc is great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
the lanc has a better bomb load than b17, AND can take those big bombs that b17 couldnt...

so bouncing bomb, tall boy, grand slam, and cookies http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

plus 4 merlins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

we getting mossie tho, mossie and lanc would make the luftwhiners cry http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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jensenpark
08-18-2004, 06:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord-Raptor:
It shows the awesome skill level of the raf pilots! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Adolf Hitler asked Hermann Goering "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Goering Replied "A squadron of Spitfires"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or rather the awesome skill of the RCAF pilots and crew who made up over 20% of the 133 crew who participated in the raid... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

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Tooz_69GIAP
08-18-2004, 06:12 PM
Absolutely, and they wouldn't be out of place in PF if a Burma map were to be added. The big lads operated out of there for a good while I think.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
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LEXX_Luthor
08-18-2004, 06:40 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Duffy/Lancaster/Lancph01.jpg
~ http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Duffy/Lancaster/index.php


Could use it as Pe~8 too, like tey used Yak~1 as Spit~1, before the AEP.



__________________
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:
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Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

WTE_DuStA
08-18-2004, 06:48 PM
lets not forget 460 squadron which was made up of alot of aussies being the most succesuful and accurate squadron in bomber command

http://members.westnet.com.au/dusta/images/dustasig12b.jpg

p1ngu666
08-18-2004, 08:10 PM
its mildly amusing that non brits did really well, better than brits ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

dam busters raid was amazing, also the other ops 617 got upto http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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wayno7777
08-18-2004, 08:30 PM
Hey, ya know what? With the Lanc and the Mossie someone can do up the 633 squadron missions or campaign... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

Tooz_69GIAP
08-18-2004, 10:01 PM
After a bit of a google I discover that the Tirpitz raid made by Lancs and Mossies in 1944 was made after the lancs and mossies had landed in Russia, and then taken off from there with their load and went home again. They travelled with Russian navigators on the bomb run I believe. (I pretty much knew that already)

After they left for Britain, 5 Lancs were left behind as they were too damaged. The russians restored two of them, and they both served in the transport and reconnaissance role. They had all defensive guns except the top turret removed I think, and a new new clear nose fitted. The original RAF paintscheme was retained with red stars being painted on in 6 places. (I didn't know that)

With us having the Tirpitz, and soon Murmansk, and north Norway (hopefully including Tromsoe Fjord), I reckon the lanc would be very well placed with it's loadouts of the cookie, grand slam, and tall boy bombs.

And if an Indian/Burmese/Chinese map were added to PF, the lanc would be very relevant to have included.

Ed has done the xternal model, and the pits I believe are being worked on by Halfwit, and he says it's about 60% done, but it has been on the back burner for a while due to his PF committments (damned bloomin' friggin' Pacific nicking all our modellers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif ), and other committments will keep it there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Who knows.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
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Za Rodinu!
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NTESLA
08-18-2004, 11:43 PM
I want them too!

Tooz,

You just explained a small part of another movie I have been working on at the backburner.

http://fluxout.homestead.com/files/Thx-32x.jpg

"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you"

Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

WOLFMondo
08-19-2004, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
After a bit of a google I discover that the Tirpitz raid made by Lancs and Mossies in 1944 was made after the lancs and mossies had landed in Russia, and then taken off from there with their load and went home again. They travelled with Russian navigators on the bomb run I believe. (I pretty much knew that already)

After they left for Britain, 5 Lancs were left behind as they were too damaged. The russians restored two of them, and they both served in the transport and reconnaissance role. They had all defensive guns except the top turret removed I think, and a new new clear nose fitted. The original RAF paintscheme was retained with red stars being painted on in 6 places. (I didn't know that)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never realised any of that happened.

SO they landed in Russia with there Tallboys still slung under them? Then flew back and did the raid?

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
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Rab03
08-19-2004, 12:42 AM
By all means! It'll be nice target for Bf-110 G-2.

See my skins at
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/JohnnyRab-SIG.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Rab&ts=1069857387&comefrom=credits)

WTE_Ibis
08-19-2004, 03:04 AM
Aaw Duster your just saying that cause
you know it's true,you can't fool us.

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http://premium.uploadit.org/Ibissix/MAKE-MY-DAY.jpg
Join us or oppose us, either way "MAKE MY DAY"

http://premium.uploadit.org/Ibissix/lanc.jpg

Tooz_69GIAP
08-19-2004, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I never realised any of that happened.

SO they landed in Russia with there Tallboys still slung under them? Then flew back and did the raid?

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
http://www.wolfgaming.net
Home of WGNDedicated<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt they did that, although I couldn't say so for sure.

I woulda thought that the ordinance would have been shipped over there beforehand, and they would have been loaded up in Russia.

I think they flew over to the Murmansk area, where one of the northern convoys (this is 1944 remember, more convoys were getting through) would have easily been able to deliver the bombs. And then they flew westward to the Tirpitz on the north western coast of Norway, and then I think back to Murmansk again (they had russian navigators, so I doubt they would go to the UK with the bombers, but you never know) and then they went back off to the UK.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Executive Officer, 69th GIAP
Za Rodinu!
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BuzZz_WG
08-19-2004, 04:44 AM
The lancaster has an extremly ugly butt. I looks like a baboons a-s-s. But I still want it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BREAK! BREAK!
Nevermind...

WOLFMondo
08-19-2004, 04:54 AM
Its only ugly plane but reputedly handled well, was liked by its crews and could take a 22,000lbs bomb! The B17 couldn't take half that weight. Only the B29 could beat that by carrying 2 Tallboys, one under each wing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I never realised any of that happened.

SO they landed in Russia with there Tallboys still slung under them? Then flew back and did the raid?

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
http://www.wolfgaming.net
Home of WGNDedicated<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt they did that, although I couldn't say so for sure.

I woulda thought that the ordinance would have been shipped over there beforehand, and they would have been loaded up in Russia.

I think they flew over to the Murmansk area, where one of the northern convoys (this is 1944 remember, more convoys were getting through) would have easily been able to deliver the bombs. And then they flew westward to the Tirpitz on the north western coast of Norway, and then I think back to Murmansk again (they had russian navigators, so I doubt they would go to the UK with the bombers, but you never know) and then they went back off to the UK.

_whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!_

http://giap.webhop.info
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_Za Rodinu!_
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh...that makes more sense. It would be a little odd to try to land with a Tallboy attached to the bottom. With all likely hood the undercarrage would have collapsed and taken the whole runway out.

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Lord-Raptor
08-19-2004, 05:06 AM
Lancaster is Sexy not ugly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Hermann Goering asked Adolf Galland "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Galland Replied "A Squadron of Spitfires"

Lord-Raptor
08-19-2004, 05:08 AM
If i got the lancaster i would be flying endlessly to the enermys base http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Hermann Goering asked Adolf Galland "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Galland Replied "A Squadron of Spitfires"

VV_Holdenb
08-19-2004, 05:14 AM
Hi all.

A good place for a first post. I have been lurking on around the forum for months, passion and drama! Thanks all who have posted flying advice. Its got me and my Hurricane from NOOB to ‚"can sometimes get back home in one piece‚"Ě‚....

Yes I too would love a Lancaster in FB/PF/BOB.

A Lancaster link:
http://website.lineone.net/~norman.groom/index.htm

A full reproduction cockpit section of the Avro Lancaster. It‚'s on display at a farm museum in Pitsone the next village on from where I live in UK (Bucks).

The throttle(s) / gauges are hooked up with electronics to a ‚"Merlin engine sound simulator‚"Ě. Had the pleasure of sitting in as 'pilot' and firing the "engines" up last weekend. The compass has been wired up also, with beam approach navigation simulated, dash‚'s sounding for too far west, dots for too far each east and continuous
sound for on course.

The way the throttles have been hooked up to the electronics may be of interest, for the home cockpit build folks. Rather than using Variable resistors or potentiometers to connect up the throttle levers Norman has used variable capacitors, as there was no room to fit the pots between throttle levers.

Some more Lancaster reference material /eye candy

http://www.lancasterrestoration.com
http://www.flyingzonedirect.com
Book: The Lancaster manual, RAF museum series, Greenhill books UK.

http://tinypic.com/2mlix

Eddie_W
08-19-2004, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Ed has done the xternal model, and the pits I believe are being worked on by Halfwit, and he says it's about 60% done, but it has been on the back burner for a while due to his PF committments (damned bloomin' friggin' Pacific nicking all our modellers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif ), and other committments will keep it there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well - we've all got to eat/pay bills. Pacific projects pay money, making a Lanc costs money. If I was offered a few thousand pounds I'd probably pull the Lanc off the back burner and sort it out (I was making the internals, Halfwit was tweaking up my external, which had been done to a different standard originally) but unfortunately it will have to be a spare time project until then, and will probably wind up being in a BoB addon instead (as Oleg has suggested to me).

Tooz_69GIAP
08-19-2004, 10:26 AM
I wasn't getting at you, course folks gotta pay the bills.

Just annoying that all these models that are sitting half finished, unlikely to see the light of day beacuse of a cash-in project of a theatre I have little interest in. If it was the Med, then that's a different story.

Blergh.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Executive Officer, 69th GIAP
Za Rodinu!
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Eddie_W
08-19-2004, 11:15 AM
I think people are under a big illusion that flight sim development is a good way to make a lot of money. It just ain't so.

And don't you think the PTO fans would say the same about a Med game, as you just said about PF? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

pcpilot_MGG
08-19-2004, 11:40 AM
Personally, I would love to see more Brit aircraft in IL2. The Lanc, the Stirling, and if no other bomber, the twin engined Wellington would be an excellent addition. Even the Manchester and Hampden would be interesting despite being poor performers.
I'm hoping that AEP will include a Brit carrier with its accompanying aircraft for late-war Pacific scenarios. Any word on this possibility?

BRING ON THE BRITS! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Lord-Raptor
08-19-2004, 12:41 PM
Yea BRING MORE BRIT PLANES! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Hermann Goering asked Adolf Galland "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Galland Replied "A Squadron of Spitfires"

Lord-Raptor
08-19-2004, 12:42 PM
totally agree! we NEED MORE BRIT PLANES! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Hermann Goering asked Adolf Galland "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Galland Replied "A Squadron of Spitfires"

IIJG69Kartofe
08-19-2004, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
ya lanc is great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
the lanc has a better bomb load than b17, AND can take those big bombs that b17 couldnt...

so bouncing bomb, tall boy, grand slam, and cookies http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

plus 4 merlins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

we getting mossie tho, mossie and lanc would make the luftwhiners cry<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope ... You is wrong ... They will make us ...

Dream ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

IKG26Redcoat
08-20-2004, 05:37 AM
Ive been waiting for a flyable lanc forever.... but I doubt it will happen in AEP.
BTW, its pretty dumb to compare the lanc and the B17, both were excellent in different ways. The RAF were the first to fly B17s in anger, but decided that the performance wasnt good enough, and they were relegated to Coastal Command in the Uboat hunts. The Lanc had better range, and a MUCH bigger bombload capacity, and the whole point of a bomber was to carry bombs to a target...But the B17 was much better armed, so tell me why one is better than the other! I'd like the oportunity to fly both in AEP, not just one or the other.......

There are a lot of people, who say, that bombing can never win a war. Well, my answer to that, is that it has never been tried yet, and we shall see....
Sir Arthur Harris
CinC Bomber Command

WOLFMondo
08-20-2004, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pcpilot_MGG:
Personally, I would love to see more Brit aircraft in IL2. The Lanc, the Stirling, and if no other bomber, the twin engined Wellington would be an excellent addition. Even the Manchester and Hampden would be interesting despite being poor performers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to see the Lanc and Wellington but not the Manchester, not many were built and they weren't used as a bomber. Not sure about the Hampden either, A Halifax would be a good one though.

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Eddie_W
08-20-2004, 06:11 AM
The Hampden and Manchester were both used as bombers. The Hampden even saw service on the Eastern Front!

woofiedog
08-20-2004, 06:32 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifBombers... Bombers.... More Bombers.... and just for GOOD measure... MORE BOMBERS!!!!!
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WOLFMondo
08-20-2004, 06:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eddie_W:
The Hampden and Manchester were both used as bombers. The Hampden even saw service on the Eastern Front!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought out of the 200 Manchesters built they did a couple of bombing raids then were used as target tugs, transports and the like?

I had no idea the Hampden was used on the Eastern Front. I'd still rather see a wellington as they were the backbone of bomber command before the 4 engined bombers arrived and were still used even then. Its probably as important in RAF history as the Lancaster.

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269GA-Veltro
08-20-2004, 06:58 AM
Lancasters.....of course yes. But it was a WIP, al least the LOD0.

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pcpilot_MGG
08-20-2004, 08:57 AM
WolfMondo, you are correct as to the manchester's use as target tugs, etc. But did you know that Manchesters took part in the first millenium raid and one of the VC's awarded went to a pilot of a Manchester, named, I beleive, Manser. Later, when the engineers added 4 merlin engines instead of the two it had, the underpowered Manchester became the outstanding Lancaster.
Sorry, dont mean to sound like Im some sort of historian, Im not. Just like to read is all... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Eddie_W
08-20-2004, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I thought out of the 200 Manchesters built they did a couple of bombing raids then were used as target tugs, transports and the like?

I had no idea the Hampden was used on the Eastern Front. I'd still rather see a wellington as they were the backbone of bomber command before the 4 engined bombers arrived and were still used even then. Its probably as important in RAF history as the Lancaster.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Manchester was first issued to bomber Squadrons in late 1940, and its final bombing op was in June 1942. So about 18 months in front line service. Hardly insignificant!

The Hampden and Whitley both saw a lot of action in the early war period, and were both pretty effective aircraft that saw widespread service - they tend to be forgotten in favour of the Wellington.