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KIMURA
04-12-2004, 05:18 AM
Hi Luthier

Will we finally get sliding canopies with PF? Actually a must-have for carrier landings/takeoffs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

KIMURA
04-12-2004, 05:18 AM
Hi Luthier

Will we finally get sliding canopies with PF? Actually a must-have for carrier landings/takeoffs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

luthier1
04-12-2004, 06:54 AM
If you will, then it will only be for the new planes. We won't be able to redo all the older models we're inheriting like the P-51 and P-38.

But I really doubt how helpful it'll be for carrier ops since you won't be able to move your POV. That's unfortunately out of the question.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

KIMURA
04-12-2004, 08:12 AM
Hi Luthier.

I guess it's interesting and realistic to have it exclusively on USN and IJN a/c.

MBot
04-12-2004, 08:17 AM
In the german planes Shift-F1 is used to move the POV sidewarts in order the see trough the offset revi. I guess every plane has two POVs programmed for both Shift-F1 views.

Why don't you make the Shift-F1 view of the carrier operating planes so far to the left ( LSO side... ) that you can see a bit better across the engine. That would be some sort of workaround untill we get real head movement in BoB.

PlaneEater
04-12-2004, 08:24 AM
MBot, what you're actually getting are the views from two different camera objects in the plane's cockpit model. There's 'normal', then 'gunsight'.

I don't know if Luthier is planning to add a third and / or fourth ('LSO' and 'Ring-and-post sight'), and if he is, he better tell me quick so I can include them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There aren't many of them left. They flew these things. They stepped off the earth, into the sky, in a pair of metal wings and a howling, living, fire-breathing beast of war, and they fought.

And they died.

And the least we can do is remember they were heroes.

luthier1
04-12-2004, 08:29 AM
Like I said, there won't be a "poke your head out ot the window" view.

The cockpits are built specifically for a POV set at the center of the cockpit at a certain height. They are optimized to only show the things you would see from there. Pretty much every single object in the pit doesn't have back surfaces, only the ones facing the player are modeled. That saves a tremendous amount of FPS.

If we were to have views far offset from the cockpit center, we'd need to have much more polys in the cockpit which would cause an FPS drop in these planes by 20-30%. I just don't think it's worth it.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

MBot
04-12-2004, 08:49 AM
@PlaneEater
In planes with centered gunsights where the two "F1-Views" are almost the same I would gladly give up one for a bit 'looking around'.

@luthier
I understand that the present cockpit architecture limits movement of POV. I also suspect that textures that "cheat" 3D structures would also look wrong if the POV would shift too much. But I don't talk about sticking the head out of the window. Just lean the head at the cockpit glass. Only a bit more than we have in the german planes, just to watch some inches around the engine.
I am just guessing here. One should have to test it in every single cockpit how much the view could be shifted until you would see stuff that isn't modeled.
Well, most likely luthier is right and it wouldn't even work with slight lean http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm am just playing around with ideas.

Jieitai_Tsunami
04-12-2004, 09:05 AM
Hi, about open canopies. I think I read a while ago that LA pilots used to open there canopies in flight to help manouvability of view. The I-16 and 153 already have open canopies that are pretty good. The only problem would be animating the cockpits.

This gives me an idea for another topic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Aeronautico
04-12-2004, 01:06 PM
MBot: even if the gunsight is centered, the "F1 view" is steadier (less head shaking), and closer to the reticule, to simulate the pilot leaning toward it, and concentrating to his task. Using this view for anything else would be a lost.

A.

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

belairpost
04-12-2004, 01:47 PM
I still believe a slight head shift to the open pit, NOT A POV, is important for intergration into PF. The F4U open pit lean left in CFS2 carrier landings is an enormously asset to game play. I can't pass judgement on the rendering aspects to PF as opposed to CFS2, but my FPS was exceptional on a Thunderbird AMD 1.2 Nvidia 5600 with 384Mb resident Sdram, and can't imagine my 3.2Gb P4, 1Gb DDR, ATI 9800 512 rolling over with this in PF. These levels of gaming machines are fast becoming the norm, not the exceptions.

heywooood
04-12-2004, 03:45 PM
Just being able to slide the canopy back in the new planes will be great.. as for carrier ops and LSO approaches it looks like were all going to have to master a curved approach and learn to deal with it.. hell, its not like the majotity will have to un-learn anything is it?.. I mean - how many of us have trapped a Corsair befor? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif..

elephant_il2
04-13-2004, 09:08 AM
It's a wellcome option even if it is only for realistic looking screenshots.

hunhunter-texas
04-14-2004, 09:55 AM
Dont forget to increase the engine/wind noise for when the canopy is open http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

IV_JG51_Razor
04-14-2004, 10:19 AM
What Hunter and Elephant said! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

Vortex_uk
04-14-2004, 02:52 PM
If anything,see the canopy fly off just as you bail,unlike the canopy in FB/AEP where nothing moves and you suddenly fly out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif or you have to open the canopy before you bail would be better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif or for a bit of hurmour,on screenshot and you have to canopy open,the pilot leans out and waves http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

}-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-{

~S~
from =97th=Vortex

http://www.gamefileworld.com/upimages/newbanner.jpg
www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas (http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas)

VF-2_John_Banks
04-18-2004, 09:28 AM
What was the keycommand for the lean left or lean right view in CFS2? I can't remember that but i know that i once used it and never found the damn key command again.

Btw, the reason why they used to land on a carrier with an open canopy is to be able to get out of the plane faster in case of a crash. Same goes for take-offs. Flying with an open canopy in the P-38 isn't possible anyway, as the side windows ad to stay closed or the plane would start to shake like crazy. If i can open the canopies on the navy planes, i'd be happy, but don't forget to change the sound volumes, when the pit is open http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Vortex_uk
04-18-2004, 05:05 PM
Hmm...who'd want to jump out of the side of a P-38,when its got those big props there,one wrong move and...Zzzzttttt...bye bye Mr.USA pilot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

http://www.photodump.com/direct/Vortex/A6M2-1-Zero.jpg

"We are not retreating, we are advancing in another direction. " ~ Gen. MacArthur

Fliger747
04-19-2004, 08:29 AM
In the P38, the props were in front of the pilot, the big issue was missing the tailplane.

In the F4U, and even the other USN aircraft, the view is helped considerably by having the canopy slid back, especially in a virtual cockpit view. This is even more true in a curved approach, which is superior once mastered. A FS type playback feature would be an excellent learning tool for improving your "traps", as well as a lot of fun!

Fliger747
04-19-2004, 08:29 AM
In the P38, the props were in front of the pilot, the big issue was missing the tailplane.

In the F4U, and even the other USN aircraft, the view is helped considerably by having the canopy slid back, especially in a virtual cockpit view. This is even more true in a curved approach, which is superior once mastered. A FS type playback feature would be an excellent learning tool for improving your "traps", as well as a lot of fun!

BSS_Vidar
04-19-2004, 08:46 PM
No "stick your head out the side" eh. This means you gents will have to learn how to fly a realistic approach to the boat. This proceedure came from the Royal Navy when they qualified the Corsair for sea trials. A continuous left-turn to final from the down-wind so you can see the boat up to the last second before you go to idle-cutoff. This pattern, known as CV Case-1 recovery is still used in the US Navy today during VFR day Ops. Full cockpit settings will demand this skill being well developed.

Some examples...

Flite of 2 inbound for the carrier brake...Note the Hellcat's canopy...

http://www.blacksheep214.com/screenshots/cfs2/Form1.jpg

Lead brakes at the bow, dash 2 presses upwind for pattern separation, then brakes...

http://www.blacksheep214.com/screenshots/cfs2/Spook%20Brakes%20at%20the%20Bow.jpg

Passed the abeam position about to intercept "the 90".

http://www.blacksheep214.com/screenshots/cfs2/At%20the%2090.jpg

Rolling in on Final/Groove...

http://www.blacksheep214.com/screenshots/cfs2/In%20the%20Groove.jpg

All this is well documented in the Blacksheeps Carrier/Formation Guide...

http://www.blacksheep214.com/cq/cq.htm

This is the way the BSS will be conducting flight Ops around the ship in Pac Theater.

S!

Vidar

[This message was edited by BSS_Vidar on Mon April 19 2004 at 07:58 PM.]

VF-2_John_Banks
04-20-2004, 08:53 AM
Vidar, this kind of approach was already standard, when the Corsair wasn't even in service. This curved approach was the standrad landing procedure for the Wildcats as well.

BSS_Vidar
04-20-2004, 02:00 PM
I believe their was a turn to "final" with the Wildcats, but... they did establish an extensive wings-level "Groove" length for several seconds before touchdown though. The Wildcats small landing gear wheel base width would have made the Approach the Brits came up with a very unattractive option.
The whole reason for the curved approach in the first place was because pilots coudn't see the deck over the Corsair's long nose forward of the cockpit.

Source's: History of Carrier Aviation-Naval Institute Library, and Discovery Wings Channel... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW, Say hey to Charles for me. We need to practice some CQ together before this sim comes out. BSS will be up on CFS2 and the Zone Sat 24 Apr 10PM EST to bag some traps. We don't pull the trigger in there anymore. It messes with our gunnery in IL-2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
VF-2 is of course all ways invited. We'll be up Teamspeak.

S!

Vidar