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View Full Version : Oleg & team, Hurricane?!



Monty_Thrud
02-08-2004, 07:23 AM
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VW-IceFire
02-08-2004, 07:51 AM
No worries...we've asked for it before. Not sure if we'll get it...but its been asked for. Especially since the Hurricane in VVS service was used as a ground attack plane apparently.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Extreme_One
02-08-2004, 08:40 AM
Another Hurricane fan here!
BUMP!

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/raf_sig.jpg

Willey
02-09-2004, 07:37 AM
We seriously need some payloads... Hurries aren't alone. 109F and 190D are also missing quite a variety of loadouts. A6Ms should have 2 50kg bombs... Heinkel is totally wrong... ah, let's wait. Either they got it (and made something about it), or we can start begging again after the release of "Ace XP" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

02-09-2004, 10:19 AM
Hurricanes had two setting flaps: "up" and "down"

While intermediate application was possible, it was not for combat purposes at all.

The Hurricanes used an eccentric "H" gear system simular to those in automobiles, which one lever controlled both the gears and flaps.

Each of the 4 positions in the "H" were assigned to "flaps up" "flaps down" "gears up" "gears down". When the pilot dropped down the flaps, it could be stopped at an intermediate position by setting the lever at the center of the "H" - but however, since the same hydraulics/mechanical system controlled both gears and flaps, a pilot would rarely ever touch this lever during combat.

Receiving battle damage when the flaps were engaged, or damaging the flap systems due to jamming, would inevitably also cause the gears to fail - which put the pilot into the mortal danger of having to bellyland when he returned to base.

Thus, in the aspect of historical represantation, giving a 'combat' flap position to a plane which never used flaps for combat purposes, would be unnecessary.

BerkshireHunt
02-09-2004, 11:46 AM
On a related point I've never read a pilot account saying that the 109's flaps (any mark) were used in combat to tighten turns. Surely the automatic slats were designed for this purpose (amongst others)? Why would a 109 pilot also wind on partial flap? Mark Hanna's notes on flying the 109 make it clear that it was a full time job keeping the nose straight and the revs appropriate for the flight condition. Using flaps in a death struggle seems unlikely.
Helmut Lipfert mentions opening the radiator flaps of a 109G2 to kill speed in a dive several times (works in game)- but doesn't mention combat flap use against his tight- turning Russian opponents once. Odd.

SteelMag12
02-09-2004, 12:22 PM
we need the tank-buster (iid i think?) with the dual 40mm Vickers anti-tank guns........i belive it had two .303 mg's for aiming the 40mm's too?

XyZspineZyX
02-09-2004, 12:51 PM
You Hurri fans might be distressed to learn that auxiliary fuel tanks on your favorite bird were NOT JETTISONABLE.

The pilots hated them because they took away the plane's one ace in the hole: turn maneuverability. Not to mention, they were of course, a big, drag induciing, flammable bomb-waiting-to-explode under the fuse.

They tended to be used for ferry duty, and for certain long range attacks where they hoped to get in, hit ground targets and get out and home without having to mix it with enemy fighters. Or convoy attacks and night raids. But certainly NEVER for fighter sweeps or air superiority type missions.

Smokin256
02-11-2004, 12:04 AM
Kweassa1 wrote;
"Hurricanes had two setting flaps: "up" and "down"

While intermediate application was possible, it was not for combat purposes at all.

The Hurricanes used an eccentric "H" gear system simular to those in automobiles, which one lever controlled both the gears and flaps.

Each of the 4 positions in the "H" were assigned to "flaps up" "flaps down" "gears up" "gears down". When the pilot dropped down the flaps, it could be stopped at an intermediate position by setting the lever at the center of the "H" - but however, since the same hydraulics/mechanical system controlled both gears and flaps, a pilot would rarely ever touch this lever during combat.

Receiving battle damage when the flaps were engaged, or damaging the flap systems due to jamming, would inevitably also cause the gears to fail - which put the pilot into the mortal danger of having to bellyland when he returned to base.

Thus, in the aspect of historical represantation, giving a 'combat' flap position to a plane which never used flaps for combat purposes, would be unnecessary."


While I agree with everything written here I disagree with the conclusion. It's true that the flaps weren't used in combat, the question is why? I believe it's a combination of several factors. First, if the flaps were lowered at any speed above 120mph they & the gear controls would be damaged. Secondly since the flap/gear selector was on the right side, the pilot would either have to take his hand off the stick to manipulate the controls ( maybe holding the stick between his knees.) or taking his left hand off the throttle & reaching across to the flap/gear controls.

First of all let me say that I don't think there is any hope for change to the Hurricane in FB. All my hopes & suggestions are for the Hurricane in Olegs BoB.

IMHO this is how it should work. There should be a flaps down button & a flaps up button. Holding these buttons down should move the flaps smoothly in either direction. & Letting the buttons up should stop the flaps in any given position. There should be a flaps indicator like this;
http://home1.gte.net/res0rrxk/pictures/Hurri_flaps.jpg
You should not be able to map the flaps to an axis unless it just acts as an up button at one end of the axis & a down button at the other end of the axis. If you try to lower the flaps at speeds greater that 120mph the flaps should be damaged. This damage should also render the gear inoperative as well. To replicate the effect of the pilot having to hold the stick between his knees to operate the flap/gear selector, the ailerons & elevators should be either locked out or severly slowed down while the flaps or gear are moving. So you'd better have your plane slowed down & nicely trimmed out before you go to lower your flaps & gear. These changes would ensure that the flaps would be used in a historically correct manner & for the historically correct reasons.

Not that I think it will or even should be changed, but I believe the propeller in the Hurricane Mk I is wrong. The 12 Hurricane Mk Is were delivered to the Finnish airforce in Febuary of 1940. My research leads me to believe that these aircraft were equipped with the three bladed Hamilton Standard propeller built under license by DeHavilland. & these are the props that the Hurricane MK Is have in the game. These propellers were two positon variable pitch style. either fine pitch or course pitch. The kits to adapt a constant speed unit to these propellers weren't developed until later in the spring. may & june. & There was such a rush to get as many planes as posible retrofitted I doubt they would have spared any to send to finland. If Olegs BoB starts out with a battle of France scenario then this will be important. If not then it's no big deal since by the beginning of the BoB most of the planes had been retrofitted anyway.

Cheers.........Smokin256

hop2002
02-14-2004, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You Hurri fans might be distressed to learn that auxiliary fuel tanks on your favorite bird were NOT JETTISONABLE.

The pilots hated them because they took away the plane's one ace in the hole: turn maneuverability. Not to mention, they were of course, a big, drag induciing, flammable bomb-waiting-to-explode under the fuse.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hurricanes could be fitted with either 44 gallon fixed external tanks or 45 or 90 gallon droppable external tanks.

The earliest reference I've seen to the droppable 45 gallon tanks is summer 41. I believe the 90 gallon tanks were not used until later.