PDA

View Full Version : When blades meet



Warphorntek
06-29-2015, 06:47 AM
Imagine dueling of 2 players which do any or same (light , heavy , ....) type of attack in same/almost same time. Should do dmg faster one ? Answer is no. They should end up in some "overpushing" moment where they are pushing crossed swords on an enemy. when :

1st option - will pump up random buttom for both players and faster one ll win "overpush"
2nd option - will pump up bar with scroolbar when both players are pressing one buttom as fast as they can to win event
3rd option - will win player with more hp for "higher" strenght
4th option - will lose player which was hit lastone for worse balance (can be included with any option just for time period)

when event is won winner would do :

1st option - dmg appropriate to type of attack he was using before event
2nd option - stun enemy by pushing him out of balance because he got "overpushed" or hit him to helmet with hilt. Outcome animation can depend on type of attack too same as duration of effect.
3rd option - cripple enemy (duration/until death)
4th option - disarm (+deal so dmg) (weapon can be launched to direction which animation can command) -> disarmed player needs get to weapon by dodging

if bar option is used and noone "overpush" his rival they can pull each other backward.

I know this is a lot of work and it can be seen only rarely but it sounds so cool :D This can be used only in 1v1 matchmaking because in fight of more players this would take a lot of time so they would be vulnerable before other players.
To increase yet that much epic feel of gameplay.

naphack
06-29-2015, 07:28 AM
This stupid pushing thing is way overdone.
When you lock blades, you try to wind your blade into a position, where you can attack, while your opponent's blade is pushed to the side. If someone tries to push into one direction, you do not push against it, but you direct it to the side. Even mid-strike, that holds true. When blades lock, you have a complicated balance of power. It's like wrestling. You do not push into your opponent's strong point, you push perpendicular to the direction, he's pushing.
Locked blades is no arm-wrestling competition, it's far more complicated.
And yes, with analog controllers, it would be possible to replicate that sort of fight.

supabeatsbat
06-29-2015, 11:54 AM
Hmmmm... Sounds interesting, indeed =)
I am usually against any type of QTE, but here it may be appropriate.

1st option - will pump up random buttom for both players and faster one ll win "overpush"
Seems like the best option to me, but instead of pushing one button fast, it will be more challenging to push a combo of 3-5 buttons.
The player to do it faster and without mistakes wins, player who pushes wrong button loses, if both push wrong, loses the one who made mistake first.

1st option - dmg appropriate to type of attack he was using before event
2nd option - stun enemy by pushing him out of balance because he got "overpushed" or hit him to helmet with hilt. Outcome animation can depend on type of attack too same as duration of effect.
Nice options, Im just not sure about what will decide witch one of them to take place...
Maybe if you did MUCH better then your opponent in QTE, then its damage, if just barely better - pushing off balance.

This can be used only in 1v1 matchmaking because in fight of more players this would take a lot of time so they would be vulnerable before other players.
Actually, I dont think its gonna be that bad.
We still have finishes that take a lot of time too, so a little fast QTE won't make much difference =)

I know this is a lot of work and it can be seen only rarely but it sounds so cool
And thats the main problem here.
I dont think Devs will be able to add such a huge piece of a gameplay into an almost finished combat system =(
Thats if they did not have something like this in mind for some time already... witch I doubt.
But it would be cool to see smth like this in the game nonetheless :)

Mt.Boaty
08-20-2015, 01:26 PM
I dont know i think the swords should just bump off each other just like both players blocked each others strike.
This way the actual combat could instantly continue and your adrenaline rush is not slowed down through a qte.

But disarming is a really interesting thing, should there be a disarming mechanic with an fallback weapon like a dagger in this game?
What happens with your main weapon if you are disarmed?
Would it make the game to complicated and work as an fun extractor?

In absolutely would add more tactics into the game, and just think of the thrilling experience of getting disarmed !
Having to dodge most attacks and somehow gain your main weapon back, since it could be quite hard, to kill a shield & sword wearing guy, only with a dagger :nonchalance:

Maybe there should be an option in matchmaking where you can choose if disarming is possible or not or if you are looking for a game
with disarming or without i dont know.

What do you guys think?

Stay calm and off with their heads

MisterWillow
08-21-2015, 02:44 AM
This stupid pushing thing is way overdone.
When you lock blades, you try to wind your blade into a position, where you can attack, while your opponent's blade is pushed to the side. If someone tries to push into one direction, you do not push against it, but you direct it to the side. Even mid-strike, that holds true. When blades lock, you have a complicated balance of power. It's like wrestling. You do not push into your opponent's strong point, you push perpendicular to the direction, he's pushing.
Locked blades is no arm-wrestling competition, it's far more complicated.
And yes, with analog controllers, it would be possible to replicate that sort of fight.

Exactly this.

The cliché of movie duels, where two combatants lock blades and try to overpower each other (often while having a conversation replete with snide remarks and exposition) is absolutely not something that translates to a real-world fight. It's too easy to rotate your wrist, arm, or shoulder and work either your blade or pommel around an opponent's sword for a show-of-strength sort of struggle to be practical, let alone necessary. Instead, as one blade is repositioned, the other must respond in kind, to redirect it and (hopefully) find an opening in the first's motions to attack, resulting in the blades sliding over one another.

It's better seen than explained, so here's a video that has some in it. (especially around 2:00, they continually build a series of deflects and repositions; it's the most complex around 2:40)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC5FIyfI8TA&list=PL7jEIq5XUm3XX_6HamPLFTB13akdKy_VZ&index=2

Your proposal, if I'm understanding it properly (both opponents throw the same attack in the same direction at the same time, right?), reminds me of the old Dragonball Z Budokai games, where, if both fighters throw an energy attack at the same time, there's a chance they could meet, and there would be a struggle over who got hit by rotating the right stick to make your blast stronger; so it's definitely doable from a mechanical point of view---in For Honor, I'd imagine it would work in a similar way, where you rotate the right stick to position your sword, both defending yourself and looking for an opening, maybe zoom the camera in a bit to indicate a new 'moveset' (for lack of a better word)---but whether or not they would have time or resources to insert such an thing is what would determine its inclusion.


when event is won winner would do :

1st option - dmg appropriate to type of attack he was using before event
2nd option - stun enemy by pushing him out of balance because he got "overpushed" or hit him to helmet with hilt. Outcome animation can depend on type of attack too same as duration of effect.
3rd option - cripple enemy (duration/until death)
4th option - disarm (+deal so dmg) (weapon can be launched to direction which animation can command) -> disarmed player needs get to weapon by dodging

I think it would be better to only have the first option---it could result in a pommel strike, a guard strike, a stab, or a kick---with the exception of a low-life player who loses the struggle. In that instance, a disarm and automatic execution (since they would have died from the damage anyway) would be a nice, practical bit of variation. That way, you wouldn't have to worry about the disarmed player having to retrieve their weapon.

Again, for visual reference, here's a video with some examples of close(er) quarter fighting, and a couple of disarms included.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohmLaZHStmI&index=5&list=PL7jEIq5XUm3XX_6HamPLFTB13akdKy_VZ

My only hesitation to this is that there are more than long swords present, and while you could make it work with all the weapons---axe blades can be repositioned just as well, polearms can be used in similar ways, a flail's chain could wrap the opponent's weapon and used as leverage (which is how they were used in real war anyway)---the extra effort it would take to put all of that in there and make it function properly might not make it worth it, at least right now.

It would be a very nice addition, though. Maybe a distant patch, or something for a sequel to incorporate.

Altair_Snake
08-21-2015, 02:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed_8SaN4lyQ
4:40

I like it. The blades simply repel eachother. If they try to design something more complex, they must be careful so it doesn't end up being about pure guessing. The Soul Calibur franchise used to have locking blade mechanics, but they ditched them, because they were guessy. Now there are repels, like in For Honor at that momment in the video.