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View Full Version : Why MG42 wasn't a german plane weapon?



WannaBeWannaBe
03-19-2004, 11:14 PM
Well I never see it in any of the german planes weapon lists. Usually the MGs are just 13mm on later planes and Mg34 MGs in bombers. Was the MG42 in Axis aircraft? if not then why not? overheat - make thicker barrel. I mean that gun can shove out some ammo.

WannaBeWannaBe
03-19-2004, 11:14 PM
Well I never see it in any of the german planes weapon lists. Usually the MGs are just 13mm on later planes and Mg34 MGs in bombers. Was the MG42 in Axis aircraft? if not then why not? overheat - make thicker barrel. I mean that gun can shove out some ammo.

tenmmike
03-19-2004, 11:56 PM
well i dont know what to say about the bomber but i can comment on the fighter aspect it was a 7.92x57 caliber with mv of 710m/s..thats not very powerful also the germans fired ther mg in a syncronised mode and the mg-42 fired from a open bolt wich does not lend itself to sycronisation....i will state that germany needed all its mg42 for infantry use and by the time the mg-42 was being introduced bomber production was on the down swing

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necrobaron
03-20-2004, 12:13 AM
I have actually read that occasionally some German bomber crews on the Eastern Front would bring along MG42s with them on missions in the event that if they got shot down,they could hopefully fend off any Russians looking for them. I don't know if this ever worked,but I guess the crew could mow down a investigating squad if they placed themselves and the MG42 strategically. With any luck perhaps this tactic would buy them time to escape or be rescued.

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El Turo
03-20-2004, 12:33 AM
If I'm not mistaken, I believe many (all?) of the swivel-mount guns in the German bombers could be taken off their mounts in the event of a crash landing so that the crew had machine guns to fight on the ground.

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Spinne_3.-JG51
03-20-2004, 12:43 AM
I doubt that anyone could have fired one of the mounted machine guns while holding it in thier hands, any machine gun gives quite a kick. Unless they also carried field tripods, I doubt that the guns would've been of much use to them unless they just happened to be pointing right at the enemies.

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Allygash
03-20-2004, 01:36 AM
No problem firing MG42 whilst standing, the krauts used em for house sweeping in WW2. Seen plenty MG's including MG42 fired from the hip.

PinkPriest
03-20-2004, 02:33 AM
firing a mg3 (successor of mg42, and basically still the same weapon) without a bi- or tripod is still trained in the German Bundeswehr sometimes. usually with two man teams, where the MG rests on the shoulder of the first one, while the other one aims and shoots.

not that i'd like to be the one with the barrel and muzzle only centimeters from my ear...

shok.
03-20-2004, 03:07 AM
Fireing the MG3 standing up isn`t too hard, it requires some skill and handling tho.

Yes, I`ve done so many times in the Norwegian Armed Forces.

Kurfurst__
03-20-2004, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WannaBeWannaBe:
Well I never see it in any of the german planes weapon lists. Usually the MGs are just 13mm on later planes and Mg34 MGs in bombers. Was the MG42 in Axis aircraft? if not then why not? overheat - make thicker barrel. I mean that gun can shove out some ammo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Basically for two reasons :

As the designation shows, it was developed in 1942. By that time, the caliber was ineffective for figther arment. Also, a/c installation would require other aspects, ability to be cocked by compressed air, ability to be fired electrically (sync issues). The MG 42 wasnt capable of that.

Furthermore, sheer performance. The MG 42 could do 1200-1500 rnds/min. But German a/c MGs already could do that much years earlier, ie. the MG 15 was 1000/min, the MG 17 was 1200/min - designed specifically for a/c use, being lighter also, and available from the late 1930s... The MG 81 was developed to replace the MG15/17, with a ROF of 1600/min, even higher than the MG 42, also on fighters. But by about 1941, the caliber was just too small to be considered, it remained a bomber defense weapon, fighters went for 13mm ASAP.

So, the reason basically, it was not being developed to fit special requirements of a board weapon, its caliber was too small, and there were higher ROF a/c weapons available when it appeared.

tfu_iain1
03-20-2004, 07:47 AM
another answer to this one is in the Hidden and Dangerous 2 manual... in tanks they used the 34, not the 42, why? to change the barrel in a 42 it comes out the side, which is hanging out of the plane... in the 34 you can pull it out the back, so you dont have to remove the gun from its mount or climb outside the plane. tho i don't have a more authoratative source on this so if anyone has any extra info on barrel removal it would be appreciated

Aufklarer81
03-20-2004, 08:47 AM
All of the aforementioned reasons are accurate (although I'd think barrel heating wouldn't be as big a problem at 15,000 feet, as the air is quite cold). Although I think another consideration is that the barrel jacket for the 42 is square. This is why the 42 was never used as a coaxial or hull MG on any Panzer, as it simply wouldn't fit the mountings.

And being a WWII reenactor, I have fired and changed the barrel of a 34, and seen it done 1st hand with a 42, and yes, the 42 does come out the side, whereas there is a swivel joint on the 34. You press a button and the entire gun from the chamber back flips upside down, while the barrel remains still. then you pull it out, pop the new one in, and flip the gun back together. Its much more harrowing to do when GI's are rushing you. The MG42 system is much nicer for combat situations, although talking to German Veterans, I've heard that in emergency situations, pissing on them works well as a stopgap measure. =D

Xnomad
03-20-2004, 08:58 AM
I've seen modern day German Paratroopers clear corridors in houses with an MG 3 whilst standing up and only bracing the gun against a sling with one hand holding both legs of the bipod clenched together. The gun is being fed with a drum and the gunner is a big big man.

It was quite cool one guy would throw a grenade into the corridor whilst the rest of the squad had their backs to the wall. Then after the grenade had exploded the gunner would step into the doorway and send a few bursts down the corridor.

If you want to see a lot of standing and shooting then watch "Aliens" the smart gun is infact an MG 42

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p1ngu666
03-20-2004, 09:16 AM
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Kampfmeister
03-20-2004, 09:37 AM
All very interesting stuff. Thanks guys. I'd just like to add, that although the MG 34 and MG 42 were never used on aircraft as far as I know, the MG 15 which was normally used on bombers was also used as a light MG infantry support weapon for a time. How long and how extensively I'm not sure.

Kurfurst__
03-20-2004, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xnomad:
If you want to see a lot of standing and shooting then watch "Aliens" the smart gun is infact an MG 42
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speaking of movies, you may notice in the first Star Wars movie that the long Imperial infantry weapon gun they got in the Death Star is actually an MG 34. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And Han Solo has nice Mauser C 96 pistol. Speaking of low budget movies, LOL. : http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Aufklarer81
03-20-2004, 01:24 PM
Also, the Stormtrooper rifle is a Sten(maybe the postwar sterling, dont recall. same gun basically) with a bunch of plastic on it.

-Aufk-
www.11thpanzer.com (http://www.11thpanzer.com)

Indianer.
03-20-2004, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allygash:
No problem firing MG42 whilst standing, the krauts used em for house sweeping in WW2. Seen plenty MG's including MG42 fired from the hip.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Have u ever played Day of Defeat? Cant shoot **** when firing from the hip http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Aufklarer81
03-20-2004, 01:53 PM
I own a '43 german infantry training film titled "M¤nner gegen M¤nner" (no its not gay porn, lol) and in it they specify that firing an MG from the hip is only to be done in an emergency situation (assault, ambush, etc) and the gunner should fire in this sequence:

1. Run
2. Stop
3. Fire a short burst
4. Run
5. repeat

theres a great slow-motion sequence wherein you see the gunner do all of the above and its fantastic to see him chug chugging away on the 34 (held by the pistol grip and the handle that the bipod legs make when joined to one side). The russians used in the video die very convincingly, and we often speculate on their status as actors, or possibly prisoners, lol.

-Aufk-
www.11thpanzer.com (http://www.11thpanzer.com)