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ecma4
06-27-2015, 04:37 AM
I'd like to bring the following thread to the attention of the developers: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/683993-Female-Characters-Forums (Ugh... that Coco commercial :nonchalance:)

I'll just quote it here:


A friend of mine plays Ghost Recon with me, and I like the character customization, even if it's limited, although I do have to ask where are the female characters? Before anyone says "Females don't fight in combat"

http://kitup.military.com/2011/06/first-women-deployed-on-spec-ops-teams.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/707th_Special_Mission_Battalion


http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/03/new-frontier-for-military-women-serving-with-elite-unit/


This isn't a sexist rant on blah, blah, blah, I don't care who's in the military, as long as I can't get drafted. I wouldn't mind just a bit of diversity in gender, without the stereotypes. (The character's in just about ALL SHOOTING GAMES are stereotypical, no matter what race, gender...etc.) I want to see more out of everything. I'm loving the game insanely and I've played everything in the market that has to do with shooting and I chose this one to make my home. I don't really need anymore customization (although I want the Engineer Tac Cap Opt B V2 glasses on my scout xB)


I'm just saying, where are women? I want to see it, and I would even pay for it ($10 a pack, I'd **** near purchase anything as long as it's worth the money.) I thought of making a little petition, but it's not all that important or game breaking, just a preference and observation.


Edit: Also, I forgot about that TERRIBLE commercial with Coco:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K0eR...feature=relmfu (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K0eRtLeFiM&feature=relmfu)


P.S: This is NOT what I'm talking about lol!


This is what I'm talking about! O_O


http://ghostrecon.wikia.com/wiki/Jennifer_Burke


Here's also a little video on The fact that all miltiary war games are a man's world. I think the past Ghost Recon games had it about right:


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...S-Sausage-fest (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6073-Lets-End-the-FPS-Sausage-fest)

Everything from that thread still stands, the fans made their opinion pretty clear in that thread (22 pages!) We want equality from Ubisoft and Ghost Recon.

Can we get an official comment on Wildlands about this topic, hopefully without needing 22 pages again. Will we have Female characters this time?

Thanks!

DanHibikiFanXM
06-27-2015, 06:21 AM
Women have been members among the ranks of the Ghosts since the first title. There's little to no reason or excuse to not include them in Wildlands.

mikichiix
06-27-2015, 09:19 PM
It's the 21st century, lol.
Women are common in likely every job and are present in the military since a good amount of time.

A lot of people would appreciate to make their character individual by choosing gender in example as well.

bugkill1ad
06-27-2015, 11:09 PM
Um, women are NOT special operators or even in the infantry right now. The early years of GR was completely inaccurate and unrealistic. We are a LONG way from women serving on SOF teams as full fledged operators. Yes, the doors will be open to them, but as you can see, even the top women are struggling in Ranger School and not one has even come close to completing Marine IOC. Now, could they include women in the game acting as reconnaissance assets? Absolutely. But on assault teams? No. Equality is all talk, because there is no equality in the armed forces since women are allowed to perform at a lesser physical standard to even wear the uniform than men.

Keep the team all men and have female operators as support for recon missions and other covert activities.

Seishoujyo
06-27-2015, 11:31 PM
Ubisoft are sexist don't count on it, they don't like having female characters in their games.

Anyways we play the same characters as in Future Soldier, I saw a black dude in the trailer must be Ghost Lead and the other 3 must be Kozak, 30K and Pepper.

bugkill1ad
06-28-2015, 12:18 AM
Ubisoft are sexist don't count on it, they don't like having female characters in their games.

Anyways we play the same characters as in Future Soldier, I saw a black dude in the trailer must be Ghost Lead and the other 3 must be Kozak, 30K and Pepper.

Not mandatory to have females in games, so the sexist accusation is baseless. Could be Ghost Lead, but I doubt if the rest of the team is the same from GR:FS, maybe Pepper.

bugkill1ad
06-28-2015, 12:39 AM
This issue we did discuss in Paris.

Central to the discussion was how plausible would a female character be in a near future special forces team? Would it lessen the reality, because in real life it's not yet happening.

If I think back to the original, it seemed natural and not at all contrived to have female characters. It wasn't even an issue then.

To be honest, seeing female characters as operators was ridiculous in my opinion, but I was a fan and tolerated it. Since GRAW, my faith has been restored. I'm a true veteran, so I may see things differently because I've actually served with women at points in my military career and I just feel that the game feels more grounded in reality with all male teams. If you want women in the game, have them in realistic roles while serving in the unit. They can still be operators for specific missions, but not on the assault teams.

People want to CREATE equality instead of actually replicating it. Do it when women actually accomplish the goal, not assume that they will in the future because even top men barely make it into these special mission units.

the5timechamp
06-28-2015, 02:09 AM
This is one issue where they can cater to a broad base....

As in old Recon games have permanent death for characters (Just have a pool of characters to choose from)...... For SP you choose whom you want on your team, to include female characters.....that way those who dont want women as main characters arent forced to use them and those who do get what they want as well....

I think I saw it mentioned that the missions were the focus of the new game and not the "hero" characters of recent games, so flexibility in operatives should be possible....

Timberley
06-28-2015, 03:21 AM
This is one issue where they can cater to a broad base....

As in old Recon games have permanent death for characters (Just have a pool of characters to choose from)...... For SP you choose whom you want on your team, to include female characters.....that way those who dont want women as main characters arent forced to use them and those who do get what they want as well....

I think I saw it mentioned that the missions were the focus of the new game and not the "hero" characters of recent games, so flexibility in operatives should be possible....

I'm with you on this. Whilst I'd agree that females aren't in ODAs, they can certainly contribute in other ways, and as recent history has shown, can be well used if given the opportunity. The CST program that the US ran, for example, as well as others who operate in different units (the SRR here in the UK, but that's more intel than DA). One of our officers even passed the All-Arms Commando course! Obviously female operators won't be as prolific as male operators, but I think it would be a nice touch to include a few, if we're getting into 'choose your team' territory (which I hope happens).

But then, my attitude to life has always been 'if you can do the job, I don't care if you're female/male/white/black/religious/Atheist/gay/straight/bi/whatever'.

Tim

DanHibikiFanXM
06-28-2015, 04:28 AM
Bottom line is this - female characters have been in Ghost Recon (Rainbow Six as well) since the very beginning. It's canonical. Not having them at this point is a glaring, pointless, and nonsensical omission. We can talk about realism all we want but at the end of the day the Ghosts are a fictional unit and they can have any dang person they want if they fit mission needs and requirements.

On a personal level I know I'd for dang sure rather have Alicia Diaz on my team than any of the generic dudes from Future Soldier.

mikichiix
06-28-2015, 02:03 PM
Um, women are NOT special operators or even in the infantry right now. The early years of GR was completely inaccurate and unrealistic. We are a LONG way from women serving on SOF teams as full fledged operators. Yes, the doors will be open to them, but as you can see, even the top women are struggling in Ranger School and not one has even come close to completing Marine IOC. Now, could they include women in the game acting as reconnaissance assets? Absolutely. But on assault teams? No. Equality is all talk, because there is no equality in the armed forces since women are allowed to perform at a lesser physical standard to even wear the uniform than men.

Keep the team all men and have female operators as support for recon missions and other covert activities.

You seem to be focused on realism only. Yes, women are in the infantry, I don't know where you live, but women are already implemented in the army.
Also you can always give women a chance in-game, they can kick butts too ya' know. Who said women need to special operators.

I see something totally different, women are serving in the military, tank drivers, pilots, infantry and even high ranked with experience.
What is gaming about? To enjoy and have fun before realism in a game. Men are tasked for missions where you need to be maxed out. (Special forces)
Wildlands looks rather like mercenaries and stuff for some reason.

If someone wants realism, go out and serve (again) lol. Play Paintball or Airsoft.
The fun factor is more important, game might be totally maxed out in realism, but will it make fun? k, get a bullet irl when you get hit in-game :^)

Also, instead it's ridiculous to see female soldiers, why didn't you rather say it just doesn't suit into the whole Ghost Recon picture.
That easy...

I'd wish more integrity



Ubisoft are sexist don't count on it, they don't like having female characters in their games.

Anyways we play the same characters as in Future Soldier, I saw a black dude in the trailer must be Ghost Lead and the other 3 must be Kozak, 30K and Pepper.

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 and Siege have female characters, by Ubisoft.

ecma4
06-28-2015, 08:27 PM
This is one issue where they can cater to a broad base....

As in old Recon games have permanent death for characters (Just have a pool of characters to choose from)...... For SP you choose whom you want on your team, to include female characters.....that way those who dont want women as main characters arent forced to use them and those who do get what they want as well....

I think I saw it mentioned that the missions were the focus of the new game and not the "hero" characters of recent games, so flexibility in operatives should be possible....

Being able to choose your team members, like in the original Ghost Recon (and Rainbow) games would be an excellent feature.

Cortexian
06-28-2015, 10:49 PM
This is just my personal opinion here... Wanted to say that before any of you decide that I'm just throwing the Ubisoft company line out there.


We talked about this issue at length with the developers in Paris. It was a nice discussion to have, but there was a key element missing from it in my opinion... An educated female fans perspective. Not to put her on the spot or anything, but our host and Wildlands community developers was present during this conversation (Emma). As a group of 8 guys, and about 3 or 4 male developers, it seemed odd that they were targeting us for our opinions on this issue, so we tried to get Emma to speak up whenever possible as well as to what she thought.

It just seemed to me that no matter what we decided, our particular data sample was basically 100% male fans of Ghost Recon. I would of liked to have some females in there as well to hear what their opinions were.

Now, in general this is a tricky subject. It shouldn't be in my opinion, but it is. There are arguments for and against female characters based on realism and based on franchise history. There were female operators in the very first Ghost Recon game, and there are female military personnel being attached to special operations forces (SOF) in real life, right now. However, they're not direct members of the SOF teams. They're usually logistical or non-front line military personnel that have had SOME previous combat experience for whatever reason.

So let me break down my arguments into categories. Realistic / Franchise, and Pro / Con.


Realistic Evidence:
Pros:
• Females have been attached to SOF groups to provide a tactical intelligence gathering capability in certain regions of the world. Local stigma and social perception prevent women of certain cultures from talking to men, especially foreign men. These women are integrated into SOF as "cultural support teams" and their job is to talk to local women when the men of the SOF cannot.

• Females have been attached to SOF groups as logistical / non-combat focused members. Medics, bomb disposal, tech support, etc. They aren't members of the SOF, but are working DIRECTLY with SOF on a daily basis for extended periods of time (months). They are expected to participate in combat actions, and maintain the same level of physical and mental preparedness as the men on the teams. However, they typically hang back and are NOT expected to enter high-risk situations first or without support.

Cons:
• As stated above, the females aren't actually part of the SOF at all, regardless of their role or level of commitment to participating as an operator.

Franchise Evidence:
Pros:
• Female operators have existed since the first Ghost Recon game.
• It's a game, in a fictional universe BASED off our reality (it is not our reality).

Cons:
• None?

With that in mind, I can't realistically see females being part of the Ghosts on a mission such as the one we carry out in Wildlands. HOWEVER, at the same time it wouldn't disrupt my immersion or excitement about the game to hear that they were included. It's a game, and it's open world. One of the biggest things that the dev team is pushing is that Wildlands puts the power of choice back into the hands of the player. We can choose our equipment, we can choose which vehicles to take, we can choose which missions to do, we can choose when and how to do those missions... So why not let us CHOOSE to play as a female character if we so desire?

Lets be honest, would any of you REALLY care that much if female character models were added? Is it something SO significant that it would absolutely ruin your experience to see your friend possessing a virtual avatar that looks like a girl? Basically, would it stop you from purchasing the game (assuming everything else about the game is perfect and you were planning on buying it)?

I think those should be the real questions. It shouldn't be an issue of social perception or reality.. It should be an issue of choice.

That said, females shouldn't just be shoehorned into the game either. They should have just as much back story and reason for being there as the male members of the Ghost team. So the writing team would need to spend some time doing research into current female deployments and coming up with plausible reasons for them to be there.

So yeah, that's my opinion on this subject. Really, I don't mind either way. I'd like to see them because it offers the player more choice, but if the developers decide not to implement them for realistic reasons I'm OK with that too...

DanHibikiFanXM
06-29-2015, 02:48 AM
I care more about a good game and we'll ultimately see about that. Not having female characters wouldn't bother or affect me in any way but I do know people that it would bother and affect. It's a legacy feature of the TC franchises and there is legitimately no reason to not include at least the option for players that want it. Give options to the player; don't take away.

bugkill1ad
06-29-2015, 03:19 AM
You seem to be focused on realism only. Yes, women are in the infantry, I don't know where you live, but women are already implemented in the army.
Also you can always give women a chance in-game, they can kick butts too ya' know. Who said women need to special operators.

I see something totally different, women are serving in the military, tank drivers, pilots, infantry and even high ranked with experience.
What is gaming about? To enjoy and have fun before realism in a game. Men are tasked for missions where you need to be maxed out. (Special forces)
Wildlands looks rather like mercenaries and stuff for some reason.

If someone wants realism, go out and serve (again) lol. Play Paintball or Airsoft.
The fun factor is more important, game might be totally maxed out in realism, but will it make fun? k, get a bullet irl when you get hit in-game :^)

Also, instead it's ridiculous to see female soldiers, why didn't you rather say it just doesn't suit into the whole Ghost Recon picture.
That easy...

I'd wish more integrity




Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 and Siege have female characters, by Ubisoft.


Don't know what country you are in, but women are NOT infantry soldiers in the Army. They are looking to see it happen, but no decision has been made. Now, you may be confusing the fact that they are allowed to serve in infantry units in support positions and that is true, but they are not serving in the infantry as infantryman or in special operations as operators.

And yes, fully aware about the female operators in past games and the books, just stating my opinion on the subject. UBISoft is the ones with the final say, so we will see what they will put out.

bugkill1ad
06-29-2015, 03:20 AM
Being able to choose your team members, like in the original Ghost Recon (and Rainbow) games would be an excellent feature.

I agree.

bugkill1ad
06-29-2015, 03:32 AM
This is just my personal opinion here... Wanted to say that before any of you decide that I'm just throwing the Ubisoft company line out there.


We talked about this issue at length with the developers in Paris. It was a nice discussion to have, but there was a key element missing from it in my opinion... An educated female fans perspective. Not to put her on the spot or anything, but our host and Wildlands community developers was present during this conversation (Emma). As a group of 8 guys, and about 3 or 4 male developers, it seemed odd that they were targeting us for our opinions on this issue, so we tried to get Emma to speak up whenever possible as well as to what she thought.

It just seemed to me that no matter what we decided, our particular data sample was basically 100% male fans of Ghost Recon. I would of liked to have some females in there as well to hear what their opinions were.

Now, in general this is a tricky subject. It shouldn't be in my opinion, but it is. There are arguments for and against female characters based on realism and based on franchise history. There were female operators in the very first Ghost Recon game, and there are female military personnel being attached to special operations forces (SOF) in real life, right now. However, they're not direct members of the SOF teams. They're usually logistical or non-front line military personnel that have had SOME previous combat experience for whatever reason.

So let me break down my arguments into categories. Realistic / Franchise, and Pro / Con.



With that in mind, I can't realistically see females being part of the Ghosts on a mission such as the one we carry out in Wildlands. HOWEVER, at the same time it wouldn't disrupt my immersion or excitement about the game to hear that they were included. It's a game, and it's open world. One of the biggest things that the dev team is pushing is that Wildlands puts the power of choice back into the hands of the player. We can choose our equipment, we can choose which vehicles to take, we can choose which missions to do, we can choose when and how to do those missions... So why not let us CHOOSE to play as a female character if we so desire?

Lets be honest, would any of you REALLY care that much if female character models were added? Is it something SO significant that it would absolutely ruin your experience to see your friend possessing a virtual avatar that looks like a girl? Basically, would it stop you from purchasing the game (assuming everything else about the game is perfect and you were planning on buying it)?

I think those should be the real questions. It shouldn't be an issue of social perception or reality.. It should be an issue of choice.

That said, females shouldn't just be shoehorned into the game either. They should have just as much back story and reason for being there as the male members of the Ghost team. So the writing team would need to spend some time doing research into current female deployments and coming up with plausible reasons for them to be there.

So yeah, that's my opinion on this subject. Really, I don't mind either way. I'd like to see them because it offers the player more choice, but if the developers decide not to implement them for realistic reasons I'm OK with that too...

I for one would have ZERO problem with there being an option to create a female character (much like Mass Effect) for SP and MP, but if there is no option, I would prefer to see females in a support capacity in the game until it actually happens in real life. I really liked GR:FS with the way it handled the makeup of the team and it being all male. Yes, I like that touch of realism and I did not like the old GR games with female operators because as a Army paratrooper and having served in the military for many years, it did not fit. Yes, it is a game and I get it, but there is nothing wrong with stating an opinion and being honest about it, and that is all I'm doing here.

mikichiix
06-29-2015, 08:16 AM
This is just my personal opinion here... Wanted to say that before any of you decide that I'm just throwing the Ubisoft company line out there.


We talked about this issue at length with the developers in Paris. It was a nice discussion to have, but there was a key element missing from it in my opinion... An educated female fans perspective. Not to put her on the spot or anything, but our host and Wildlands community developers was present during this conversation (Emma). As a group of 8 guys, and about 3 or 4 male developers, it seemed odd that they were targeting us for our opinions on this issue, so we tried to get Emma to speak up whenever possible as well as to what she thought.

It just seemed to me that no matter what we decided, our particular data sample was basically 100% male fans of Ghost Recon. I would of liked to have some females in there as well to hear what their opinions were.

Now, in general this is a tricky subject. It shouldn't be in my opinion, but it is. There are arguments for and against female characters based on realism and based on franchise history. There were female operators in the very first Ghost Recon game, and there are female military personnel being attached to special operations forces (SOF) in real life, right now. However, they're not direct members of the SOF teams. They're usually logistical or non-front line military personnel that have had SOME previous combat experience for whatever reason.

So let me break down my arguments into categories. Realistic / Franchise, and Pro / Con.



With that in mind, I can't realistically see females being part of the Ghosts on a mission such as the one we carry out in Wildlands. HOWEVER, at the same time it wouldn't disrupt my immersion or excitement about the game to hear that they were included. It's a game, and it's open world. One of the biggest things that the dev team is pushing is that Wildlands puts the power of choice back into the hands of the player. We can choose our equipment, we can choose which vehicles to take, we can choose which missions to do, we can choose when and how to do those missions... So why not let us CHOOSE to play as a female character if we so desire?

Lets be honest, would any of you REALLY care that much if female character models were added? Is it something SO significant that it would absolutely ruin your experience to see your friend possessing a virtual avatar that looks like a girl? Basically, would it stop you from purchasing the game (assuming everything else about the game is perfect and you were planning on buying it)?

I think those should be the real questions. It shouldn't be an issue of social perception or reality.. It should be an issue of choice.

That said, females shouldn't just be shoehorned into the game either. They should have just as much back story and reason for being there as the male members of the Ghost team. So the writing team would need to spend some time doing research into current female deployments and coming up with plausible reasons for them to be there.

So yeah, that's my opinion on this subject. Really, I don't mind either way. I'd like to see them because it offers the player more choice, but if the developers decide not to implement them for realistic reasons I'm OK with that too...

I love your post! Point blank stated.






Don't know what country you are in, but women are NOT infantry soldiers in the Army. They are looking to see it happen, but no decision has been made. Now, you may be confusing the fact that they are allowed to serve in infantry units in support positions and that is true, but they are not serving in the infantry as infantryman or in special operations as operators.

And yes, fully aware about the female operators in past games and the books, just stating my opinion on the subject. UBISoft is the ones with the final say, so we will see what they will put out.

In Germany women are participating in combat situations, let's say Afghanistan, they do, likely they did, our forces are moving back.
I don't know what the issue is in the USA, but we don't have such an issue at least. Women in our army are high ranked or participating in the front lines as well.
As Cortexian0 stated. Women can be a key to communication, since women can speak easier to other women instead to men sometimes.
The same as a law enforcement officer. Women can talk directly with their female citizen, victims, or whatever.
I don't know how it is in the US, but in Germany we have female jet pilots in example, physical strain as much you can desire.

After college, I want to volunteer in the army and perhaps stay for a couple of years and then join the police force.
Can't see anything preventing me from :o
It's not the case of women can't do it. The case is there aren't enough women having the desire to do.

I guess everyone has their own opinion, might remain as their of course. Though it would be really sad if such a thing would change a complete decision not to buy it.

ITK5
06-29-2015, 08:57 PM
This is just my personal opinion here... Wanted to say that before any of you decide that I'm just throwing the Ubisoft company line out there.


We talked about this issue at length with the developers in Paris. It was a nice discussion to have, but there was a key element missing from it in my opinion... An educated female fans perspective. Not to put her on the spot or anything, but our host and Wildlands community developers was present during this conversation (Emma). As a group of 8 guys, and about 3 or 4 male developers, it seemed odd that they were targeting us for our opinions on this issue, so we tried to get Emma to speak up whenever possible as well as to what she thought.

It just seemed to me that no matter what we decided, our particular data sample was basically 100% male fans of Ghost Recon. I would of liked to have some females in there as well to hear what their opinions were.

Now, in general this is a tricky subject. It shouldn't be in my opinion, but it is. There are arguments for and against female characters based on realism and based on franchise history. There were female operators in the very first Ghost Recon game, and there are female military personnel being attached to special operations forces (SOF) in real life, right now. However, they're not direct members of the SOF teams. They're usually logistical or non-front line military personnel that have had SOME previous combat experience for whatever reason.

So let me break down my arguments into categories. Realistic / Franchise, and Pro / Con.



With that in mind, I can't realistically see females being part of the Ghosts on a mission such as the one we carry out in Wildlands. HOWEVER, at the same time it wouldn't disrupt my immersion or excitement about the game to hear that they were included. It's a game, and it's open world. One of the biggest things that the dev team is pushing is that Wildlands puts the power of choice back into the hands of the player. We can choose our equipment, we can choose which vehicles to take, we can choose which missions to do, we can choose when and how to do those missions... So why not let us CHOOSE to play as a female character if we so desire?

Lets be honest, would any of you REALLY care that much if female character models were added? Is it something SO significant that it would absolutely ruin your experience to see your friend possessing a virtual avatar that looks like a girl? Basically, would it stop you from purchasing the game (assuming everything else about the game is perfect and you were planning on buying it)?

I think those should be the real questions. It shouldn't be an issue of social perception or reality.. It should be an issue of choice.

That said, females shouldn't just be shoehorned into the game either. They should have just as much back story and reason for being there as the male members of the Ghost team. So the writing team would need to spend some time doing research into current female deployments and coming up with plausible reasons for them to be there.

So yeah, that's my opinion on this subject. Really, I don't mind either way. I'd like to see them because it offers the player more choice, but if the developers decide not to implement them for realistic reasons I'm OK with that too...

Nicely put Cortexian!
I wish I was as long winded as you :)
Seriously..very nicely said bro.

RedKnight5
06-30-2015, 04:53 PM
So yeah, that's my opinion on this subject. Really, I don't mind either way. I'd like to see them because it offers the player more choice, but if the developers decide not to implement them for realistic reasons I'm OK with that too...

I would also like to see female commandos in Wildlands. There are "Many" women playing Battlefield 3 and in BF4 today. I also agree... it's a game. You can mix realism and inclusion at the same time. The Police depts, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, INTERPOL and many other "Elite" law enforcement organizations, have women in their ranks.

My SOCOM and BF3 Clan had 10+ women as members, that came from all girl online war Clans. I was told, there was to much "drama" in their all girl Clans... and relished the idea of playing with the boys. My Clan ladies were some of my best in game killers... and Clan Officers. We were a diverse International group of players from all over the world. And it was a blast to have our lady members online with us every night.

But I would like to hear, from our women Wildlands Forum members here... if we have any... how they feel about this issue.

distrust74
06-30-2015, 05:07 PM
"I hope they let me create/play female characters" was one of my first thoughts on the E3 gameplay trailer.
To me it looked like a fun tactical action sandbox with some classic Ghost Recon roots, 100% realism didn`t seem to be the main selling point.

I`d like to add that imo the topic isn`t necessarily about pleasing female customers, equality, feminism or whatever.
I am male, but usually prefer to play female characters, same is true for half of my male friends. Not to go into detail, in the end it`s a matter of personal preference.

Just to throw it in here, I thought the TV show "Strike Back" had some awesome, believeable female characters who knew how to handle a fight.
Probably a similar level of "fiction" I`d expect/want from the game as well.

shobhit7777777
06-30-2015, 06:26 PM
Don't see why female characters would be omitted. Given the Ghost's mission in Bolivia, I feel female operators might turn out to be an asset. They'd be perfect for urban surveillance, intel gathering and blending in. Historically, females have played a vital role in undercover sabotage and intel operations (14th Int, OSS/SOE in WW2) and they could be perfectly capable of carrying out
direct action ops.

Realism?

The way I see it, its entirely possible for a female to make it through GR selection....is it that unimaginable or implausible to see a female operator serving with the Ghosts? Is there any precedent (that we know of)? Probably not, but who cares? Presence or absence of a female operators won't affect the game's quality, however It'd be nice to see GRW acknowledge its legacy with the presence of female operators.

Susan Grey FTW

lara01959
06-30-2015, 06:26 PM
hi guys im have been playing GRFS from since it's release date.It was my fist game of this type (TPS) and i still play to this day and i love this game and community...I really wish to have a choice in selecting a female character in game. And i just wondering is the reason for that some guys are not agree with that is fact is hurt less when u see guy rifleman kicking your *** in game? Is still a GAME and is ok have a base men's characters but give chance and choice female gamers to be a woman in game :rolleyes:

mikichiix
06-30-2015, 11:14 PM
RedKnight5, distrust74, shobhit7777777.
You three and our dear volunteer moderator, I appreciate your posts so much.
The integration of female characters isn't a bad thing and would make every player more unique
instead of just a male character and have a wider variety of character customisation. That's one thing.

I don't think adding playable female characters into the game would alter in a negative way.
This would attract more people to the game, but besides this, I don't think it would harm a franchise.
And this is the case though, is it harming the franchise or not? I actually don't think so.
Like in reality women become more often involved into this whole military thing lately.
Also more female gamers appear on the surface by the way ;D

Everything is changing anyway and gender becomes irrelevant.
Seeing females in Wildlands is realistic. It's happening irl.

Of course the female don't need to be all over the place, just the same as the male playable characters.
And it should be everyone's own opinion what and how they want to play as.
It wouldn't bother me much if they wouldn't add females. It's Ghost Recon, I was used to play how it was meant to be with its assets.
Since it is open-world though, it gives me the thoughts about experiencing it in your own way.

mikichiix
07-01-2015, 11:38 AM
Everyone agreed at the workshop that multiplayer should have female characters. The question was if any of the 4 characters central to the main campaign in coop/sp should be female if it this lessened the plausibility of the Ghosts military identity. I really like the idea of a group of characters that you can choose a squad of 4 from, even customising your own character as one of that group (as in FIFAs my Pro) and increasing or decreasing each characters attributes depending what happens to them in mission. If that is implemented it becomes a no brainier to have some of that group as female; as per the original.

When this is regarding the campaign only, I am totally fine with having no female character in it.
I mean, if it doesn't suit the whole Ghost Recon storyline, then it shouldn't, but you could always spice it up.
However the multiplayer, the multiplayer is different, there it shouldn't be a big deal at all to create a female player.

Monkey Bloke
07-01-2015, 11:42 AM
My opinion on this depends on the characters of the team, and whether they are specifically written characters, or player avatars that can be dropped in.
Personally I'd rather a (cosmetically) customisable character, which would include gender as well as clothing, gear weapons & loadout.
But if the characters are written to have a specific plot & arc, then you would need them to be locked as one gender/race, although clothing & equipment could still be customisable.
UbiSoft had some bad press over all the Assassins Creed Unity co op characters being male (because each player was playing a customised version of the same character), so I hope they'd realise this is an issue people care about.
Generally I'm in the camp that says inclusion of players who want a female character to play outweighs the strict realism of females on a special forces assault team.

Sorrosyss
07-01-2015, 12:59 PM
I confess I've never played any of these games, as I only really play the AC games from Ubisoft, and support the expansion of female characters to that franchise. However, I saw the trailer for Ghost Recon and was pretty impressed with what I saw.

I prefer playing a female character for obvious reasons. I feel many female gamers would like to approach the shooter genre, but it's always come across as a genre that doesn't really feel inclusive for both genders. I am somewhat pleased to see a shift this year, with both COD and Battlefront, two huge upcoming games both allowing the creation of female characters. I feel it's not only important for diversity, but it's in the companies best interests as it will only attract more female gamers into total sales who frankly, feel a little excluded at present. Playing your own gender does make a big difference to immersion for many players.

From my perspective, if there are no female characters in this Ghost Recon, I may give it a miss. You can argue realism all you like, the reality is skipping this feature results in one less sale right here. And I dare say I'm not alone on this opinion. Hopefully Ubisoft can match it's rivals, and provide this highly desired option.

ITK5
07-01-2015, 02:09 PM
Good morning Ghost.

Like BlueFox said, this was brought up in our workshop in Paris.
We don't yet know the full details of the story/campaign, IMO I don't think there should
be a female main character if its going to change the realism of a Tom Clancy theme campaign.
In a story (campaign) you don't re-write it to change the gender of the main characters.
I mean your not gonna change Lara Croft into Larry Croft
or Sam Fisher into Samantha Fisher. :cool:

As far as Multiplayer..well HELL yea! Im all for total customization
of your characters.

btw: I play with Lara01959, she's a great player and I know
there is nothing more she would rather do than to T_ _ _Stamp someone ;)

Monkey Bloke
07-01-2015, 02:21 PM
Good morning Ghost.

Like BlueFox said, this was brought up in our workshop in Paris.
We don't yet know the full details of the story/campaign, IMO I don't think there should
be a female main character if its going to change the realism of a Tom Clancy theme campaign.
In a story (campaign) you don't re-write it to change the gender of the main characters.
I mean your not gonna change Lara Croft into Larry Croft
or Sam Fisher into Samantha Fisher. :cool:

As far as Multiplayer..well HELL yea! Im all for total customization
of your characters.


I agree that we know nothing, so everything here is speculation. In the case of Tomb Raider or Splinter Cell, the star is an individual, Lara or Sam, but Ghost Recon, like Rainbow 6, is about an organisation, and has a history of changing protagonists & teammates in games, so the analogy isn't 1:1.
If UbiSoft have a planned story for the main characters of GRWL, I would not ask an artist to compromise their vision, but you can craft a compelling story with a swappable protagonist as many RPGs have shown.
Similarly, for all I know GRWL will have cypher customisable characters and tell it's story through the other characters they interact with.
Without knowing more there isn't a lot to say, but I'm sure that UbiSoft know that many players want a female character they can play as.

mikichiix
07-01-2015, 03:22 PM
Good morning Ghost.

Like BlueFox said, this was brought up in our workshop in Paris.
We don't yet know the full details of the story/campaign, IMO I don't think there should
be a female main character if its going to change the realism of a Tom Clancy theme campaign.
In a story (campaign) you don't re-write it to change the gender of the main characters.
I mean your not gonna change Lara Croft into Larry Croft
or Sam Fisher into Samantha Fisher. :cool:

As far as Multiplayer..well HELL yea! Im all for total customization
of your characters.

btw: I play with Lara01959, she's a great player and I know
there is nothing more she would rather do than to T_ _ _Stamp someone ;)

Heck yes, that's what I am about! ;D!!
If this doesn't fit into the whole story, it's okay and totally understandable.
Though in multiplayer I see no reason why there shouldn't be! ;D

Tengg-Eri
07-01-2015, 04:19 PM
Hey there!
what's the problem? It's the player who makes the story in a game like this (open + interactive + responsive + adapting world). Since the campaign is not on strings, the player doesn't have to become / impersonate one of the operatives but rather create one.
In GRFS campaign player became a particular character pre writen and described by game developers to go through the missions as this character. In GR Wildlands there is a chance, since the campaign is not scripted, to creat own character and wright it's story...
Campaign has lots of room to fit in female operatives, even female boss of some drug cartel...

Like they said during presentation or somewhere, it's not about technology, bigger guns and particular characters, it's about the team and tactics.
I hope the story won't state that there were 4 operatives in Bolivia: 30K, Kozac, Sam etc.... to free Bolivia from drugs, BUT rather: There were anonymous operatives, a team of 4 ghost agents to deal with.... They are GHOSTS after all !!
This way a player has a total freedome wheather to create female or male character/operative...

They should even give a possibility to choose other AI operatives, their loadout, even a gender.

BTW: What if the character player creates and personalises during campaign play is the same character player uses for multyplayer? I actually don't like to create multyple characters in game, would prefer to create one character and then loadout presets... Put for thought

distrust74
07-01-2015, 05:07 PM
I was about to write nearly the same thing as Tengg-Eri.
I can`t imagine anyone watching the E3 demo thought "Cool, I just hope it has a deep backstory for the characters".
The whole thing suggested freedom. The characters looked more like mercenaries than soldiers to me anyway.

Black_Shield mentioned RPGs, and in a way the demo had a certain RPG feel to it, as in go where you want, do stuff on your own pace, and ...play the character you like.
I`d be utterly disappointed if they`d force some useless linear story about a predefined team into it. All the story I`d need is the red line through the main missions.

If a user want`s to play as a special ops team, let him design such a team, with appropriate gear and all.
If someone prefers to go for a more casual mercenary look, why not?
If someone wants a team of females, let them do it.

You could argue it doesn`t fit the franchise history ... but this already looks like a very different game. And the fictional stuff since AW was quite a change as well.
To me the core of Ghost Recon is the tactical third person gameplay (ye, the first wasn`t 3rd pers) and good Coop.
That gameplay, in an open environment, with a character of my own choosing would be a dream come true for me.

he1nz
07-02-2015, 05:28 AM
It's fair enough if ubisoft only put male characters in story missions. But ofcourse there should be female characters in multiplayer!

ecma4
07-02-2015, 05:40 AM
It's fair enough if ubisoft only put male characters in story missions. But ofcourse there should be female characters in multiplayer!

It sounds like with Wildlands, the "single player" experience is multi-player, with drop in and out co-op match making. There may be other multi-player modes, but I would like to see this support female characters too.

Tengg-Eri
07-02-2015, 10:01 AM
exactly, there is no "story" in this game, as i see it. There is only a background for 4 ghosts -players, to make a story...
"Bolivia, South America, drug cartels all around the place, corrupt government and 4 ghosts to deal with it"
That's already realistic and plousible... no need to detail every ghost one by one- it doesn't matter - they are anonymous.

I would really hate to see that in campaigne a player got to play as some dude with a story already witten (like GRFS)
I'd prefer to play as myself, with my own nickname, and a friend joining in with his/her own character

For me the realism etc. arguments are not valid right now, as it is a game, and we know of female operatives in movies, other games, real life female police officers (just give'em bigger guns and some tech toys and we have a ghost :) )

he1nz
07-02-2015, 02:36 PM
It sounds like with Wildlands, the "single player" experience is multi-player, with drop in and out co-op match making. There may be other multi-player modes, but I would like to see this support female characters too.

I guess it all comes down to what kinda story Ubisoft wants to tell. I don't even know if the ghosts are still Green Barets!? The new Wildlands plot sounds more like a devgru/cia dark ops story :) And Im sure cia would'nt hesitate sending in female operators if needed.

Muddvain
07-02-2015, 06:46 PM
Good morning Ghost.

Like BlueFox said, this was brought up in our workshop in Paris.
We don't yet know the full details of the story/campaign, IMO I don't think there should
be a female main character if its going to change the realism of a Tom Clancy theme campaign.
In a story (campaign) you don't re-write it to change the gender of the main characters.
I mean your not gonna change Lara Croft into Larry Croft
or Sam Fisher into Samantha Fisher. :cool:

As far as Multiplayer..well HELL yea! Im all for total customization
of your characters.

btw: I play with Lara01959, she's a great player and I know
there is nothing more she would rather do than to T_ _ _Stamp someone ;)

Id have to agree with ITK5 on this one. I get the desire for such, but at the risk of losing authenticity I would have to say leave it out for the story line, or campaign. Multiplayer is fine makes no difference.

Happy Hunting Ghosts!

Muddvain

Magsmp31
07-03-2015, 01:45 PM
Ubisoft might as well enjoy this debate because its here to stay for all of their games. There is also the issue that if it is the same squad as future soldier, Kozak is barely old enough to purchase alcohol in this timeline. Ghost Recon has always been about overall story as opposed to individual character development. There was a point in future soldier where Ghost Lead said of Africa" don't let that scene get in your head, they were in trouble before we got there." yet we never know if the scene got in his head because its next mission time. Also, the soldier with Russian heritage kills scores of Russian soldiers but we never see any hint of an effect. My hope is with the new open world, the story will open up as well. As for women soldiers, they should be in because Ghost Recon had women soldiers in until future soldier. I hope the squad operatives can be customized because it would add more depth.

he1nz
07-03-2015, 03:21 PM
I wish they would keep it simple like OGR and Island Thunder. It just got really cheesy when they started with sgt. mitchell and the other characters... the first two games felt gritty and hardcore, and so was the gameplay.

distrust74
07-04-2015, 01:05 AM
Id have to agree with ITK5 on this one. I get the desire for such, but at the risk of losing authenticity I would have to say leave it out for the story line, or campaign. Multiplayer is fine makes no difference.

Happy Hunting Ghosts!

Muddvain

I think most of us are talking about Singleplayer/Coop here, well, I am.
Sure, if there was a distinct character based story line there is no point forcing anything that doesnt fit in.
On the other hand I hope that if there is no such storyline, noone has a problem with giving players the freedom to play the game the way they want, female characters included.
For coop/multiplayer they could offer an option to overwrite non-military-authentic player skins, for those who want to keep the special ops feel.

In the end it will really come down to Customization vs. Character story.
Personally I think the game looks like a sandbox, and to me a perfect sandbox also allows me to make the character of my choice.
There`s enough military shooters out there pushing the team-goes-through-trouble story, I don`t need that.

Monkey Bloke
07-04-2015, 01:21 PM
In the end it will really come down to Customization vs. Character story.
Personally I think the game looks like a sandbox, and to me a perfect sandbox also allows me to make the character of my choice.
There`s enough military shooters out there pushing the team-goes-through-trouble story, I don`t need that.
More elegantly said than I was able to.
To my mind the polar opposites here are Spec Ops the Line, and Crackdown. Spec Ops had a specific story to tell about Captain Walker, Adams and Lugo, what they go through on that mission, and how it affects them. Crackdown on the other hand lets you reselect the character skin every time you load the game, since it is a sandbox with no discernible main character.
Perhaps the Rainbow 6 Vegas games are a better example. In the first game you play Logan Keller, a specifically created character, whereas in the second one you play as Bishop, a character who can be customised in many ways, including gender.
If the game is the sandbox it appears, I hope Ubisoft include the ability to customise your character, whereas if it has a strong, personal narrative (based around the characters, not the situation) then I'm happy with a predetermined character.

Timberley
07-07-2015, 04:33 AM
I suppose it depends whether Ubisoft wants to create (or recreate, depending upon your point of view) their own niche within the tactical shooter genre, or follow the same tired formula in an overly saturated market.

Personally, I'd much prefer the sandbox environment, where my actions (along with my team of AI Ghosts), have ramifications within the game world, such as civilians calmly walking the streets of a recently cleared village, maybe with sound bites that thank us (the Ghosts) directly, or as overheard conversations between NPCs, not squad members hamming it up in an over-wrought and dull cut scene.

How does this relate to female characters (you might wonder)? Well, assuming Ubisoft decide to take the game back to its roots and create a strongly tactical game (play-style), where actions within the game world have consequences within the game world (more Arma than GRFS), then we're obviously not locked into a predetermined squad. So, why shouldn't those who wish to use female Ghosts be allowed to do so? It may not be 100% tactically accurate (assuming the Ghosts are still US Green Berets), but is it an acceptable break from reality? I'd answer yes, but then I'm pushing a 'return to your roots' agenda with this game!

Tim

SeniorChiefAS
07-08-2015, 05:21 AM
Why not?? We have some great female players that love the game... Multiplayer would be a great place to start

hypercasey
08-11-2015, 11:29 AM
Um, women are NOT special operators or even in the infantry right now. The early years of GR was completely inaccurate and unrealistic. We are a LONG way from women serving on SOF teams as full fledged operators. Yes, the doors will be open to them, but as you can see, even the top women are struggling in Ranger School and not one has even come close to completing Marine IOC. Now, could they include women in the game acting as reconnaissance assets? Absolutely. But on assault teams? No. Equality is all talk, because there is no equality in the armed forces since women are allowed to perform at a lesser physical standard to even wear the uniform than men.

Keep the team all men and have female operators as support for recon missions and other covert activities.

The US Army now regularly deploys all female strike teams especially in countries where women are systematically oppressed. There's reasons for this and a need for it. These are combat teams. Here's one example of such team: http://www.army.mil/article/101111/_FET__to_fight__Female_Engagement_Team_makes_histo ry/

Ghost Sniper33
08-11-2015, 05:31 PM
I suppose it depends whether Ubisoft wants to create (or recreate, depending upon your point of view) their own niche within the tactical shooter genre, or follow the same tired formula in an overly saturated market.

Personally, I'd much prefer the sandbox environment, where my actions (along with my team of AI Ghosts), have ramifications within the game world, such as civilians calmly walking the streets of a recently cleared village, maybe with sound bites that thank us (the Ghosts) directly, or as overheard conversations between NPCs, not squad members hamming it up in an over-wrought and dull cut scene.

How does this relate to female characters (you might wonder)? Well, assuming Ubisoft decide to take the game back to its roots and create a strongly tactical game (play-style), where actions within the game world have consequences within the game world (more Arma than GRFS), then we're obviously not locked into a predetermined squad. So, why shouldn't those who wish to use female Ghosts be allowed to do so? It may not be 100% tactically accurate (assuming the Ghosts are still US Green Berets), but is it an acceptable break from reality? I'd answer yes, but then I'm pushing a 'return to your roots' agenda with this game!

Tim
I really hope your not in the town long enough to be talked to - isn't that against what Ghosts are for? or most special ops teams? your in and out- let the Army or Marine grunts be in there holding the terriotry.

Cortexian
08-11-2015, 09:53 PM
Talking to locals is something special forces under cover are required to do. There's only so much intel you can learn from observation.

O07_eleven
08-16-2015, 08:58 PM
I don't have a problem with women being believable supporting characters such as radio operators, helicopter pilots, supply co-ordinators etc. but for the sake of realism I would hope that they aren't a part of the core team, I just can't envisage a female actually hoofing across such vast country and supposedly keeping up with top special forces men. My decision to buy the game will be affected by more than just the gender of characters but personally as a fan of the series right now women in combat roles is a political subject and I wouldn't appreciate the women if it was some token empowerment thing. Plus feminists like Anita Sarkeesian would accuse you of being objectifying misogynists and such if you made her too pretty to appeal to your predominately male audience.

Addressing the secondary debate here on a personalized, linear storyline vs choose your own team I like the sound of the main storyline missions being done by the same soldiers, building some rapport with them and giving it a bit more drama than having major cutscenes with different actors altogether. As for side quests and the like there could be the opportunity for the player to freshen things up a little by rotating members of the patrol with other Ghosts from the base.

RedKnight5
08-19-2015, 04:37 PM
Navy SEALs will open to women, top admiral says: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8515066067_f55c283230_o.png (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/18/navy-seals-open-women-top-admiral-says/31948789/)

Adm. Jon Greenert, chief of naval operations, said he and the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, Rear Adm. Brian Losey, believe that if women can pass the legendary six-month Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training, they should be allowed to serve.
__________

History in the making: 2 women will graduate from Army Ranger course: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8515066067_f55c283230_o.png (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-graduate-army-ranger-course/)

(CNN): Two women are about to make history by becoming the first female soldiers to graduate from the Army's exhausting Ranger School.

They're among the 96 students who will graduate from the intensive training program Friday in Fort Benning, Georgia.




At the end of the day.... GR Wildlands is just a game. All can play.

Cortexian
08-20-2015, 05:28 PM
Don't leave out the fact that just because said women have graduated from Ranger school, doesn't guarantee they will be deployed on combat roles. That decision has yet to be made at the highest levels of the US military.

Don't hate, my position on this was made clear previously: I don't mind having female characters in my Ghost squad either way, just as long as it's believable and not forced.

Just giving all the facts...

foxlight713
09-13-2015, 06:33 AM
Women have been members among the ranks of the Ghosts since the first title. There's little to no reason or excuse to not include them in Wildlands.

It seems that I'm a little late to this party and the very fist reply to this thread sums up most of my opinion on why to include a playable female ghost. When playing GR: Advanced Warfare I had hoped that female ghosts would be added to the multiplayer in dlc because female ghosts had mostly been playable in the multiplayer in past ghost recon games. However they never became available. For me when it come's to arguments between realizm vs Ghost Recon Lore; Ghost Recon Lore trumps any realizm arguments because female ghost operatives have always been there in both the books and most of the games.

OFC if the single player campaign has a specific set of characters that's fine. Though I like as others have pointed out with WildLands being an open world having a main character set up like Bishop from Rainbow6; vegas 2 being able to be both male and female and the customization of Bishop is what is used in the multiplayer co-op and vs mode which would be really cool if that was done with Ghost Recon: Wildlands.

As far as specific customization; race, face shape (a few pre sets), skin color, eye color, hair style, (beards for the guys because who doesn't like a bad as spec ops beard) and hair color to keep it simple

eyanvenom
09-15-2015, 04:56 AM
It's a video game. They can EASILY add a female role. However, I doubt this will happen due to the trailer. I was thinking the 4 may be related to, if not the same squad from GRFS

UbiBooma
09-17-2015, 08:50 PM
Just wanna say - congrats on not turning this into a toxic conversation. You guys are great!

DigitalHitmann
09-18-2015, 01:31 AM
It's a video game. They can EASILY add a female role. However, I doubt this will happen due to the trailer. I was thinking the 4 may be related to, if not the same squad from GRFS

I think Kevin or Matt and I talked about this at E3. Believe they said that the time frame in which Wildlands occurs is before Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

Im all for female characters though, more variety the better.

RedKnight5
09-18-2015, 04:38 PM
I think Kevin or Matt and I talked about this at E3. Believe they said that the time frame in which Wildlands occurs is before Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

Im all for female characters though, more variety the better.


I like it! Ooh Rah! <strong>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frupH4_PzSc

Blitzkriegery
09-21-2015, 12:50 AM
Women being deployed in special forces is a VERY new thing in the special forces community, the only special forces unit in the US to accept women is the NAVY SEALS, and they still haven't seen combat as they are still figuring it out.

Weather or not women will be in this game is unknown, but I wouldn't be surprised if they wernt, many military games try to keep women out of their games. Women in combat is still a very new thing.

Now all that being said, women are starting to be integrated into combat roles, and some special forces roles. Really we may not know till the game is realized, even then it could be added as free DLC later on.

Blitzkriegery
09-21-2015, 12:54 AM
It's a video game. They can EASILY add a female role. However, I doubt this will happen due to the trailer. I was thinking the 4 may be related to, if not the same squad from GRFS

It is not entirely easy, they would have to make entire new animations, characters, position of weapons, ect.

Tengg-Eri
09-21-2015, 12:08 PM
you all forget one thing... it's not reall world sim
it is based on Tom Clancy novels' sort of realm
It's more what could have been or what will be than what it is

And one more thing, it is a GAME. In a game ppl get to choose their roles/positions etc.


It is not entirely easy, they would have to make entire new animations, characters, position of weapons, ect.
not entirely new... sports women run quite similarly to men etc... holding weapon is the same for both sexes...
we talk about military women not some models running on battlefield in highheals shoes... and E size

Magsmp31
09-21-2015, 06:22 PM
The great thing about Clancy games and even SOCOM to certain extent was that they always fit into place. The emphasis was always on the plotline and they fit into it. Even if they can't fit female soldiers in the main story, I hope they can fit in through custom missions or as NPCs because what's not reality now might be by the 2019-2020 storyline

Blitzkriegery
09-23-2015, 01:19 AM
you all forget one thing... it's not reall world sim
it is based on Tom Clancy novels' sort of realm
It's more what could have been or what will be than what it is

And one more thing, it is a GAME. In a game ppl get to choose their roles/positions etc.


not entirely new... sports women run quite similarly to men etc... holding weapon is the same for both sexes...
we talk about military women not some models running on battlefield in highheals shoes... and E size

The ghost recon makers pride themselves on realism, and real life realism too, they usually try their best to make a real world sim.

Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAf_mIHnLRc

Tengg-Eri
09-23-2015, 05:42 PM
it's good they want to give their best to create the surroundings and bolivia character as close to reality as possible,
It's still a Clancy game... a GAME
Though Clancy's books are close to reality, they are not reall

Close to real world environment, historical facts etc. never were in a way of making a game more like A GAME.

I don't want to play as some preset character that fits the plot (like GR:FS)
I want to create my own Ghost... so let our female gamer friends to do the same :D

Magsmp31
09-27-2015, 12:26 AM
it's good they want to give their best to create the surroundings and bolivia character as close to reality as possible,
It's still a Clancy game... a GAME
Though Clancy's books are close to reality, they are not reall

Close to real world environment, historical facts etc. never were in a way of making a game more like A GAME.

I don't want to play as some preset character that fits the plot (like GR:FS)
I want to create my own Ghost... so let our female gamer friends to do the same :D


Exactly

ecma4
11-11-2015, 03:35 AM
Any chance of getting an official comment on this?

murphdawg1
11-12-2015, 04:45 AM
The ghost recon makers pride themselves on realism, and real life realism too, they usually try their best to make a real world sim.

Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAf_mIHnLRc

Even a real world sim is still a work of fiction.

Lolssi
11-12-2015, 10:01 AM
Actually,now in RainbowSix Siege and The Division both has female characters.Though in RainbowSix you cant customize them a lot but I believe in The Divison you can totally customize your female character.And yeah they are badass,so why not GRP?
To be fair Siege went full ****** with it's characters.

UbiKeeba
11-12-2015, 11:22 PM
I see this thread going down a negative path. Please, keep all communications on these forums respectful. :)

Magsmp31
11-13-2015, 09:41 PM
I really hope that every facet of the character is customizable right down to the gender. The original Ghost Recon was the first shooter I ever played and I was surprised to find female characters but it was done well at the same time. I remember the POW level where I would switch to Susan Grey immediately to avoid alerting the Russians because she had the suppressed MP5. It was done well in Rainbow Six Vegas as well. My only beef is when they call the character "sir" regardless of gender. Fix this pet peeve now ubisoft lol.

UbiBooma
11-16-2015, 09:00 PM
I really hope that every facet of the character is customizable right down to the gender. The original Ghost Recon was the first shooter I ever played and I was surprised to find female characters but it was done well at the same time. I remember the POW level where I would switch to Susan Grey immediately to avoid alerting the Russians because she had the suppressed MP5. It was done well in Rainbow Six Vegas as well. My only beef is when they call the character "sir" regardless of gender. Fix this pet peeve now ubisoft lol.

It just occurred to me that in Battlestar Galactica (newer version), men and women were referred to as sir. I assumed that in the future the term had evolved into something gender neutral. Hadn't thought of it until now. Thanks for the feedback, Mags

Magsmp31
11-16-2015, 09:30 PM
It just occurred to me that in Battlestar Galactica (newer version), men and women were referred to as sir. I assumed that in the future the term had evolved into something gender neutral. Hadn't thought of it until now. Thanks for the feedback, Mags

You could be right on it becoming gender neural but at the time it came off as lazy so it could go either way. It strikes me I've heard it in more places since then such as SOCOM 4 but again I wrote it off as lack of attention to detail.

IKreetaKI
11-16-2015, 11:42 PM
As a player I think it would be great that we can choose between male or female. I think that it's always a plus in every game :)

null499
11-16-2015, 11:51 PM
it's common in games today that let the players to chose their gender themselves.IMO games are a way for players to do something they cant or cant easily to do in real life,so most people wanna to make the characters they use in game more like "me".So gender really make sense for a female players like me.Games is not a thing only for boys,personally,I more like games like Fallout that you can chose your gender,that makes me feel I AM IN THE GAME,not just watch another boring movie.

Cortexian
11-17-2015, 10:57 AM
My only beef is when they call the character "sir" regardless of gender. Fix this pet peeve now ubisoft lol.


It just occurred to me that in Battlestar Galactica (newer version), men and women were referred to as sir. I assumed that in the future the term had evolved into something gender neutral. Hadn't thought of it until now. Thanks for the feedback, Mags


You could be right on it becoming gender neural but at the time it came off as lazy so it could go either way. It strikes me I've heard it in more places since then such as SOCOM 4 but again I wrote it off as lack of attention to detail.

Calling female officers "Sir" is common practice in many military organizations around the world already. As far as I'm aware, it's fairly typical actually.

Sir is a holdover from the historical act of knighting and knighthood. It's an honorary title, and since back when knighthood was common females were typically not allowed to be knights... As such, when picked up by the military organizations around the world (which historically didn't allow female soldiers or officers initially either...) it stuck around as an honorary title for officers of a higher rank than you. Relatively speaking, females serving in these organizations is extremely "new" and the "sir" honorific is still applied to them in many military organizations because the "old guard" are still in power and don't want to amend any regulations to include "ma'am" as an acceptable alternative.

Obviously the old guard would never admit to wanting to keep women out of the military in public anymore, as it's now entirely socially acceptable... But until that generation dies out and younger, more progressive thinking generations are promoted up the chain, "ma'am" won't become common place.

Some units may never adopt "ma'am" either, in order to keep tradition alive or some other type of excuse.

DanHibikiFanXM
11-17-2015, 03:44 PM
In the US military female officers are always referred to as ma'am.

EDIT: Additionally another civilian misunderstanding of proper military etiquette also comes up whenever you hear a private say "Yes, sir!" To an NCO. NCOs should be referred to by their rank (oddly enough being more gender neutral than how you refer to officers) but this varies between branches. In the Army it's acceptable to call an NCO 'Sergeant' up until they hit the rank of Master Sergeant or First Sergeant. In the Marines you refer to every NCO specifically by their individual rank. My experience working with SF in Afghanistan taught me that everyone goes by first names.

Also, the title 'Sarge' is never used by anyone.

Magsmp31
11-17-2015, 08:54 PM
Thank you for the clarification everyone

TheRealGunnut19
11-20-2015, 04:56 AM
I feel like female characters aren't necessarily imperative, but a good idea for any game with character customization, so long as the game isn't story heavy enough that having a character more or less retconned to be one gender becomes an issue later on. (For example, if there was a R6 Vegas 3, you know someone would have gotten ticked off at whatever they made Bishop in it.)

GR seems perfect a candidate for such customization, is what I mean to say.

Cortexian
11-20-2015, 11:16 AM
IIRC, an NCO talking to a group of officers is supposed to call them by their rank as well. Because if there was a group of military members. half officers of various ranks, and a few NCO's as well and an NCO said "Sir" trying to get the attention of a specific officer... Well, you'd have a bunch of officers looking around like "wtf do you want?"

SuperBiscotCOT
11-21-2015, 07:42 PM
In Rainbow 6 siege there are female characters, in the division too ... I think it's clear that we will have them in GR WL.:p

Cortexian
11-22-2015, 09:38 AM
There's really no correlation at all other than the fact that all three games exist in the Clancyverse... Different game development studios, different staff, different engines, different everything really.

jeannaq
11-24-2015, 07:14 AM
it's good they want to give their best to create the surroundings and bolivia character as close to reality as possible,
It's still a Clancy game... a GAME
Though Clancy's books are close to reality, they are not reall

Close to real world environment, historical facts etc. never were in a way of making a game more like A GAME.

I don't want to play as some preset character that fits the plot (like GR:FS)
I want to create my own Ghost... so let our female gamer friends to do the same :D

I think that would be really awesome, being able to create a female ghost to play as. Yes, it's not realistic, but it is a video game, a place where we should be able to break free from everything realism and maybe, even partially experience anything like it even if it isn't real.

foxlight713
12-16-2015, 05:53 AM
I think that would be really awesome, being able to create a female ghost to play as. Yes, it's not realistic, but it is a video game, a place where we should be able to break free from everything realism and maybe, even partially experience anything like it even if it isn't real.

Agreed, plus playable female ghosts have been in the universe and in most of the games for quite some time. While GR:FS was an ok game, no female ghosts was a let down. I just hope that they will change that for GR:Wildlands because it is the deciding factor in me buying the game. Also this thread should not leave the front page to remind the devs that we want playable and customizable female ghosts in GR:wildlands

ES-Ulukai
12-16-2015, 09:58 AM
When we played we were 4 male characters, it was still a early version and talked about that with the devs.

Personnaly we had female specialist in GR1 so i'm cool with it.

foxlight713
12-16-2015, 07:22 PM
When we played we were 4 male characters, it was still a early version and talked about that with the devs.

Personnaly we had female specialist in GR1 so i'm cool with it.

Indeed, while the topic itself has pretty much been discussed to death. The point now is to keep this topic on the front page to keep reminding the devs that playable female ghosts is something that we want.

SuperBiscotCOT
12-16-2015, 09:50 PM
Indeed, while the topic itself has pretty much been discussed to death. The point now is to keep this topic on the front page to keep reminding the devs that playable female ghosts is something that we want.

I think that just the fact that a community moderator saw it and will say it to dev's or maybe already did it ... who knows ? :p
But yes it would be something not realy hard to implement except the 3D model they have to create and all the animation stuff (and the voices), and a lot of other things ... but I think they already know it. :)

jeannaq
12-16-2015, 09:53 PM
Indeed, while the topic itself has pretty much been discussed to death. The point now is to keep this topic on the front page to keep reminding the devs that playable female ghosts is something that we want.

I would love the opportunity to play as a female in the game, but everything that has been shown seems to point away from that, atleast for the single player portion of the game. Maybe in the future.

Cortexian
12-18-2015, 09:09 AM
I think that just the fact that a community moderator saw it and will say it to dev's or maybe already did it ... who knows ? :p
But yes it would be something not realy hard to implement except the 3D model they have to create and all the animation stuff (and the voices), and a lot of other things ... but I think they already know it. :)
We already talked about it with the devs when we were in Paris. Can't talk about specifics unfortunately, but we had a good long discussion about it.

foxlight713
12-23-2015, 10:24 AM
We already talked about it with the devs when we were in Paris. Can't talk about specifics unfortunately, but we had a good long discussion about it.

It's good to hear that it was talked about at the least.

mikichiix
12-26-2015, 11:24 AM
Going through this topic after some while... The replies repeat all over again.
Anyway, this is a game, meant to be realistic, but also meant to make and be fun.

I'd like to know what kind of difference it would make, if there would be female Ghosts or only male Ghosts.
From what I get, actually none. Realism? C'mon, this is a game, and it's lately realistic.
There have been a lot female agents, soldiers, operators across the globe, not only this century, not only world wars.

Honestly I can't understand why some people don't want equality in games. It's not only for female gamers.
Male players would like to play a female protagonist, not only male. Such as female players. They would also not only play as female protagonist, just because they are female, now they have to (or what, pointing out the sarcasm, just in case). Some will definitely play as male protagonist. Why, perhaps they want to implement their own story into a game, or imagine their character this way. It is like a character creation (with or without story behind, which you can always imagine and create) in some fantasy roleplay game. Perhaps your character should stand for something, important or not important or just simply for fun.

WatchdogsMD
12-26-2015, 03:37 PM
I would love to have at least one my AI teammates to be female. I would like to see what she has in order to help stop the Santa Blanca cartel. I treat all my teammates equally, whether male or female.

StealthTallyFox
12-29-2015, 11:52 AM
female in Ghost Recon? I'm supporting for it, and if anyone say "oooh, females aren't in SF" bs, please, female US Rangers just graduated, they made it past the training that's as hard as their male counterparts, though they're not assigned to 75th Rangers, at least we know they are combat capable, by morally & physically, so... no reason to say no to female soldier, I kinda want to say "why don't we celebrate the female Rangers graduation by adding playable female character to Ghost Recon series?".... but we're dealing this with Ubisoft... so... crap

ES-Ulukai
12-29-2015, 05:54 PM
Original Ghost Recon had Female specialist that you could add on your team so why not in GRW.

R6 Siege also have Female operators.

jeannaq
12-29-2015, 06:50 PM
Original Ghost Recon had Female specialist that you could add on your team so why not in GRW.

R6 Siege also have Female operators.

Really there have been more Tom Clancy games than not that have given us female characters in some form or another.

foxlight713
01-06-2016, 04:03 AM
adding playable female character to Ghost Recon series?".... but we're dealing this with Ubisoft... so... crap

The correct way to say it would be "adding playable female characters back into Ghost Recon." Just about all the previous GR games (ecept Future solider, I know that title did not have them at all) have had playable female operatives in some way shape or form.

StealthTallyFox
01-09-2016, 01:22 AM
yeah, but I'm a newcomer into the franchise so I haven't seen playable/non-playable female characters in the game(except that Helo pilot called 'Twisting' in GRFS), different experiences states different statements

junliu9
01-10-2016, 08:16 AM
Seeing how well liked Evie was in Syndicate, I think it would be in Ubisofts best interest to at least give players the option to choose whether they would like to play a Male or Female character.

In terms of realism, I think it would still be fairly realistic to have Female Ghosts. And wasn't there a study by the FBI/CIA (not sure on this) that showed that women make better assassin's/killers than men as well?

StealthTallyFox
01-16-2016, 06:36 AM
they have more chance and usually faster to get to targets, as once I've heard, the killings are easy, the hard one is getting to the targets, besides, most population see females as weaker and pose less threat. that can put mental surprise to anybody who's not expecting a fully trained female assassin/spy

Cortexian
01-17-2016, 10:29 AM
And they have the whole "feminine wiles" thing going for them, it's just a sociological fact that a pretty woman is more likely to convince men around them into doing what they want...

https://i.imgur.com/bu3qdWf.gif

MajGeneralNZAC
01-17-2016, 12:08 PM
Original Ghost Recon had Female specialist that you could add on your team so why not in GRW.

R6 Siege also have Female operators.

Rainbow Six focuses on Counter Terrorism groups, which is completely different then a regular SF unit. There aren't any female operators in the CTU that are most likely to operate in this manner (SAS and Spetnaz). Females in CTU aren't unheard of. Females in SF units is completely different. You can't compare the two.

SuperBiscotCOT
01-17-2016, 12:08 PM
I remember also that in France Ubisoft had some problems with feminist associations before the realease of AC Unity because we haven't saw any women in traillers.
And one week after we saw the trailer with Elise so everything was forgiven.

MajGeneralNZAC
01-17-2016, 12:15 PM
they have more chance and usually faster to get to targets, as once I've heard, the killings are easy, the hard one is getting to the targets, besides, most population see females as weaker and pose less threat. that can put mental surprise to anybody who's not expecting a fully trained female assassin/spy

I don't know what romanticized views of SF missions you have been looking at, but its simply not true.

The hardest part is getting to the targets, and 90%+ of the mission is mainly that. And that can involve mile long treks, swims etc. over days to get to the target. In most operations, the target won't be anywhere near the operator taking them out (if we are talking assassinations) so it doesn't matter if she is a woman. The only advantage they have is engaging with females in the area, but that is more for Middle Eastern and African countries. I don't think Bolivians have any cultural issues that prevent men socializing with women.

StealthTallyFox
01-17-2016, 01:01 PM
hey, look up for Female US Ranger, they do exist, not exactly SOF, but still close enough

SuperBiscotCOT
01-17-2016, 02:00 PM
It's the 100 post on this thread I think that now they know that a lot of us want female characters. :)

Cortexian
01-18-2016, 04:20 AM
Rangers are SOF, just not Tier 1.


I don't know what romanticized views of SF missions you have been looking at, but its simply not true.

The hardest part is getting to the targets, and 90%+ of the mission is mainly that. And that can involve mile long treks, swims etc. over days to get to the target. In most operations, the target won't be anywhere near the operator taking them out (if we are talking assassinations) so it doesn't matter if she is a woman. The only advantage they have is engaging with females in the area, but that is more for Middle Eastern and African countries. I don't think Bolivians have any cultural issues that prevent men socializing with women.
SteathTallyFox and junliu were talking about women in espionage roles (CIA Agents, etc) in regards to the comment you quoted.

Not SF operators.

Crohnsbrb
01-23-2016, 09:24 PM
It's the 21st century, lol.
Women are common in likely every job and are present in the military since a good amount of time.

A lot of people would appreciate to make their character individual by choosing gender in example as well.

Yet women haven't yet to proven themselves anywhere near men on the standards required, and since this is being what looks to be top end JSOC or freelance contractors that have been in JSOC. Female characters would hurt the lore of. However it is a game, so if they add them it wouldnt bother me, it would just take from the realism.

Magsmp31
01-24-2016, 12:29 AM
Yet women haven't yet to proven themselves anywhere near men on the standards required, and since this is being what looks to be top end JSOC or freelance contractors that have been in JSOC. Female characters would hurt the lore of. However it is a game, so if they add them it wouldnt bother me, it would just take from the realism.

There were female characters in Ghost Recon 1, Desert Siege, Island Thunder, Jungle Storm, GR2, Summit Strike, and both GRAW titles so it really has no impact on the lore of the franchise.

jeannaq
01-24-2016, 01:29 AM
Yet women haven't yet to proven themselves anywhere near men on the standards required, and since this is being what looks to be top end JSOC or freelance contractors that have been in JSOC. Female characters would hurt the lore of. However it is a game, so if they add them it wouldnt bother me, it would just take from the realism.

I guess you haven't played too many of the previous Ghost Recon games, as there have been female ghosts in almost all the games. So it doesn't really hurt the lore of the universe.

SolidSage
01-24-2016, 05:47 AM
"Women aren't in real combat roles"

Oh but augmented camo is all over the place huh?


I love the cherry picking that goes on in these discussions, choosing the truth that suits your argument best is so normal it's frightening.

Magsmp31
01-24-2016, 05:14 PM
"Women aren't in real combat roles"

Oh but augmented camo is all over the place huh?


I love the cherry picking that goes on in these discussions, choosing the truth that suits your argument best is so normal it's frightening.

You forgot the heat seeking bullets. This was toned down considering the earlier version included Depleted Uranium bullets for the assault rifle, exo skeletons, Shoulder mounted mortars, and even more adaptive camo. I enjoyed future soldier but some of that tech was insane. I get DARPA might be working on it but I just don't see it as soon as 2024

junliu9
01-25-2016, 02:28 AM
Rangers are SOF, just not Tier 1.


SteathTallyFox and junliu were talking about women in espionage roles (CIA Agents, etc) in regards to the comment you quoted.

Not SF operators.

Yep, and I honestly wouldn't mind if they made it so that players choosing Female operators would be better in stealth/info gathering/espionage/sniping etc., but slightly less effective in open combat (though not by much).

If they do decide to include female characters, then I think that this is a direction that they may want to take a look into, to keep with the "realism" as others have said in this thread. Or you know, just legitimately put them in as a playable gender (Just as The Division did). But this is just my two cents.

AshSparkle
01-25-2016, 04:17 AM
This has been mentioned many times, by other posters (who I think are fellow female gamers), but I would also like to add that it would totally be cool and a confirmed pre-order for me if there's an option to play as a female operator in the single-player campaign.

However, if the plot and story are written in a way that fleshes out the characters & each member of your squad are named and have their own backstory, heck even voice acting maybe, then definitely they should stick to that instead of shoehorning a female character in it.

But if they're going for that customize your own operator, silent protagonist feel, then I don't see why it would be a problem to include gender as an option. I recalled a company (i'm pretty sure it was ubisoft?) mentioning in the past about how hard it would animate women in games and all that. I do think that's bollocks. You can use the same animations for everything without issue. As someone said before in the previous pages, you aren't running in heels with E melons.

I'm looking forward to this game!

Pre-ordered The Division and waiting to sink my hands into the beta. I have to admit, one of the biggest reason I pre-ordered The Division without hesitation was because of character customization, and yes, gender selection, enabling me to role-play and create my own back story.

I enjoyed GR: FS (finished it a few times), and generally loved games that have voiced protagonist (mostly male) or strong narrations more than having silent protagonists. But sometimes, it really is enticing to be able to create your character in a world and weave your own narrative into it. Excited to see what comes of The Division. Maybe the responses to The Division might convince Ubi to put in gender as an option in GRWL?

Timberley
01-26-2016, 02:20 AM
This has been mentioned many times, by other posters (who I think are fellow female gamers), but I would also like to add that it would totally be cool and a confirmed pre-order for me if there's an option to play as a female operator in the single-player campaign.

However, if the plot and story are written in a way that fleshes out the characters & each member of your squad are named and have their own backstory, heck even voice acting maybe, then definitely they should stick to that instead of shoehorning a female character in it.

But if they're going for that customize your own operator, silent protagonist feel, then I don't see why it would be a problem to include gender as an option. I recalled a company (i'm pretty sure it was ubisoft?) mentioning in the past about how hard it would animate women in games and all that. I do think that's bollocks. You can use the same animations for everything without issue. As someone said before in the previous pages, you aren't running in heels with E melons.

I'm looking forward to this game!

Pre-ordered The Division and waiting to sink my hands into the beta. I have to admit, one of the biggest reason I pre-ordered The Division without hesitation was because of character customization, and yes, gender selection, enabling me to role-play and create my own back story.

I enjoyed GR: FS (finished it a few times), and generally loved games that have voiced protagonist (mostly male) or strong narrations more than having silent protagonists. But sometimes, it really is enticing to be able to create your character in a world and weave your own narrative into it. Excited to see what comes of The Division. Maybe the responses to The Division might convince Ubi to put in gender as an option in GRWL?

In part I'm with you on this, as one reason I'm also getting TD is because I can create a character that I can create the story for. I prefer my games to have a either a Make-Your-Own Protagonist or allow choice from a WIDE selection of people. This applies to Single Player as well as multiplayer. In my wee blog (link in sig) I put together a brief overview of OGR and what I'd like to see them take from it to go forward with GRW. One of the things I wanted was a selectable mostly silent squad including FEMALE squadmates. Long story short (read the blog for the full story), I want them back, but with expectations broadly within reality, i.e. able to handle most things well, but maybe not the GPMG, and better at covert infiltration, etc.

I hated GRFS, not least because the Goon Squad were flat, uninteresting characters with few redeeming qualities that I had to take on missions because the game dictated it, not because they were useful. I took more delight in watching them die than I've done in any other game, because I felt that they were immortal idiots, so why should I care? A selection of customisable Ghosts that can DIE if I make a hash of a mission: that's something to care about and make your calls accordingly.

So, that's my thoughts. And if possible, bring back some of the old Ghosts from the previous, substantially superior games, like Lindy Cohen, Jack Stone, Henry Ramirez, Mike Kim, Alicia Diaz, etc.

Tim

foxlight713
01-26-2016, 04:18 AM
In part I'm with you on this, as one reason I'm also getting TD is because I can create a character that I can create the story for.

So, that's my thoughts. And if possible, bring back some of the old Ghosts from the previous, substantially superior games, like Lindy Cohen, Jack Stone, Henry Ramirez, Mike Kim, Alicia Diaz, etc.

Tim

That's most of the reason why I pre-ordered TD as well. It's great that it is also my preferred kind of shooter with the 3rd person so I can see my character in action, but the custom character creation was a big plus for me pre-ordering TD.

AshSparkle
01-26-2016, 07:43 AM
Good to know that there are others like me who find character customization carrying a huge weight in their decision to buy a game.

I don't know what to feel about silent squad though, for a game like Ghost Recon, I kinda like the idea of having squad banter and all that. But of course having squad banter or squad mates talking about the missions etc, means that the squad mates have to be fleshed out and of particular background, gender etc. I honestly don't know how Ubisoft wants the sp experience to be for Wildlands, I would love to be able to customize every single squadmate, but at the same time, banter really would help with immersion for me.

shobhit7777777
01-26-2016, 02:37 PM
I had an interesting take on a female character in the game

The Ghost team seems to be an all-male group, which is fine. However there is no reason why they can't have a female 'operator' from another government agency (local or otherwise) helping them out.

I imagine here to be the female version of Benicio Del Toro's character in 'Sicario'.

She has her own agenda and goals, she just helps the Ghost team out in case it furthers her cause....it can be a dicey give and take between the Ghosts and the 'Sicario' (IDK, I like that term)...you never know what she is really upto.

Then again, I reckon people want a PLAYABLE female character...

Timberley
01-26-2016, 09:57 PM
I had an interesting take on a female character in the game

The Ghost team seems to be an all-male group, which is fine. However there is no reason why they can't have a female 'operator' from another government agency (local or otherwise) helping them out.

I imagine here to be the female version of Benicio Del Toro's character in 'Sicario'.

She has her own agenda and goals, she just helps the Ghost team out in case it furthers her cause....it can be a dicey give and take between the Ghosts and the 'Sicario' (IDK, I like that term)...you never know what she is really upto.

Then again, I reckon people want a PLAYABLE female character...

And you'd be right. I, for one, want playable female Ghost characters in the SP campaign. The Ghost team has only recently decided to become all-male. Historically, the Ghosts were male and female, up until they went from a selectable team of soldiers that you improved with each mission to an unchangeable team of AI 'nickname' sheep. Much as I'm a guy who likes my authenticity in proper shooter games, gender is something I see as an acceptable break. For example, in OGR the Ghosts were joined by Astra Galinsky, a sniper-class Specialist, whose goals were aligned with but separate to the Ghosts. By turns, they also had Lindy Cohen, who was a fully-badged Ghost, and Susan Grey, who later went on to command Ghost Recon.

I'm also one of those who bangs the drum about bringing back the soul-swapping mechanics that could be used to great effect in OGR (along with quite a lot of other mechanics from OGR). Playing GRAW and GRFS felt very limited compared to the tactical freedom I got in OGR.

Tim

Magsmp31
01-27-2016, 03:13 AM
They could do voice over like rainbow six vegas 2. The voice dialogue was neutral enough that they just put a female voice over in the very same script

jeannaq
01-27-2016, 04:33 AM
In part I'm with you on this, as one reason I'm also getting TD is because I can create a character that I can create the story for. I prefer my games to have a either a Make-Your-Own Protagonist or allow choice from a WIDE selection of people. This applies to Single Player as well as multiplayer. In my wee blog (link in sig) I put together a brief overview of OGR and what I'd like to see them take from it to go forward with GRW. One of the things I wanted was a selectable mostly silent squad including FEMALE squadmates. Long story short (read the blog for the full story), I want them back, but with expectations broadly within reality, i.e. able to handle most things well, but maybe not the GPMG, and better at covert infiltration, etc.

I hated GRFS, not least because the Goon Squad were flat, uninteresting characters with few redeeming qualities that I had to take on missions because the game dictated it, not because they were useful. I took more delight in watching them die than I've done in any other game, because I felt that they were immortal idiots, so why should I care? A selection of customisable Ghosts that can DIE if I make a hash of a mission: that's something to care about and make your calls accordingly.

So, that's my thoughts. And if possible, bring back some of the old Ghosts from the previous, substantially superior games, like Lindy Cohen, Jack Stone, Henry Ramirez, Mike Kim, Alicia Diaz, etc.

Tim

That's one of the few reasons I would like to play The Divsion but it won't happen. I would love the ability to chose or even customize a Ghost. So that is why I would like to see something similar implemented into GR Wildlands, a game I will actually be able to play.

StealthTallyFox
01-27-2016, 04:23 PM
for people who think Ghost Recon never had female operators, they did, look before GRFS time, females in GR has existed, for others who say females aren't in SF, check the real world, female US Army Rangers just graduated few week/months back, the question is "will Ubi put female characters in GR again?". It'd be cool to see that, but I think a cap, black tactical glasses, headphones, and half mask is enough for me

Ghost Sniper33
01-27-2016, 05:14 PM
for people who think Ghost Recon never had female operators, they did, look before GRFS time, females in GR has existed, for others who say females aren't in SF, check the real world, female US Army Rangers just graduated few week/months back, the question is "will Ubi put female characters in GR again?". It'd be cool to see that, but I think a cap, black tactical glasses, headphones, and half mask is enough for me
ding ding ding

http://tomclancy.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Ghost_Recon_Character
Alicia diaz
Jennifer Burke
Susan Gray
annabelle cruz

and more

shobhit7777777
01-29-2016, 07:37 AM
And you'd be right. I, for one, want playable female Ghost characters in the SP campaign. The Ghost team has only recently decided to become all-male. Historically, the Ghosts were male and female, up until they went from a selectable team of soldiers that you improved with each mission to an unchangeable team of AI 'nickname' sheep. Much as I'm a guy who likes my authenticity in proper shooter games, gender is something I see as an acceptable break. For example, in OGR the Ghosts were joined by Astra Galinsky, a sniper-class Specialist, whose goals were aligned with but separate to the Ghosts. By turns, they also had Lindy Cohen, who was a fully-badged Ghost, and Susan Grey, who later went on to command Ghost Recon.

I'm also one of those who bangs the drum about bringing back the soul-swapping mechanics that could be used to great effect in OGR (along with quite a lot of other mechanics from OGR). Playing GRAW and GRFS felt very limited compared to the tactical freedom I got in OGR.

Tim

Yeah, I thought as much.

Will Jacobs and Cohen were prized soldiers in my roster...primarily because of their OICWs. I'd put them in charge of Alpha and Bravo....and I'd often have either Grey (with MP5SD) or Galinsky (with semi-auto Dragunov) in Charlie to scout ahead.

Good times.

Timberley
01-30-2016, 02:48 AM
Yeah, I thought as much.

Will Jacobs and Cohen were prized soldiers in my roster...primarily because of their OICWs. I'd put them in charge of Alpha and Bravo....and I'd often have either Grey (with MP5SD) or Galinsky (with semi-auto Dragunov) in Charlie to scout ahead.

Good times.

Haha, I had a similar set up! Though I paired Susan with Galinsky/Jack, and had Alpha with Lindy and Nigel Tunney. Charlie was usually my heavy support of Dieter Munz and Klaus Henkel.

Such good times!

Tim

Magsmp31
02-03-2016, 04:29 PM
I brought Cohen, Jacobs, and Grey as soon as they were unlocked. In the POW rescue, I order the team to recon and have Grey, Henkel, and Ramirez take out the perimeter guards first, set up Galinsky or Jack in the tower to cover Jacobs and Lindy while they overwhelm the Ruskies on the inside with firepower. Good times

Sorrosyss
02-04-2016, 08:51 PM
I already posted my opinion earlier in the thread, but I just wanted to add this.

I tried The Division beta last weekend, and it was a game that I really wasn't sure about. However, having the gender option and the customisation options helped win me over.

I'm now in a similar situation with this game. I'm not sure about it, but if The Division can do it I really can't see a legitimate reason for gender selection to be omitted. In my case, it would certainly help sway my decision. Alot of games companies underestimate inclusivity. It's one of the reasons that the Mass Effect and Dragon Age games are so popular, namely as they have proportionally larger female player bases primarily due to the gender choice.

In a purely pragmatic business sense, if they were to omit the gender option Ubisoft is basically cutting off potential sales in one ill thought out move. If they want gamers to embrace these new living persistent worlds that they are building, then they need us to be able to play as ourselves - whatever our gender or race.

NWOslave
02-07-2016, 02:35 AM
If the game servers are as bad as GRFS then what does it matter about the cosmetics?

Erathiel
02-07-2016, 08:01 AM
Wonder how long we will need to wait before we get any confirmation or denied from them about we can play as female.

Lolssi
02-08-2016, 01:14 PM
If the game servers are as bad as GRFS then what does it matter about the cosmetics?
Mostly playing offline so it matters just as much as with good servers :)

KotetsuKarasu
02-28-2016, 10:20 AM
I'm strongly for the addition of female characters if the Narrative is as open and player driven as we are being led to believe. I have four girlfriends on XboxOne and six friends on PS4, all of which would be interested in your game if it played even remotely like the division, without the RPG damage mechanics, and with female characters, even if customization is scarce in comparison to the division, they would be very interested.

In the event the game's narrative turns out to contain various set pieces, cut scenes, arguments and dialogues between main player characters, I could see this being slightly more difficult. However, having recently worked with mo-cap myself, and having voice acted in the past, I can't see this as being a major problem. With a product three years in the making and a plethora of assets at their disposal I would most likely view the absence of two genders and various races as poor planning or possibly even laziness.

Despite having issues with the game (and franchise)Call of duty: Black Ops III, my girlfriends and I have all praised the game for its inclusion of customization and gender. In fact one of the things all of my friends (male and female) crave from our games is Co-op play specifically four player co-op (or more).

StealthTallyFox
03-01-2016, 02:20 PM
don't hope much, this is Ubi

but as long as they deliver the essence of Ghost Recon, I'll be fine

SCAgent95
03-02-2016, 08:13 PM
Hi all! :D
Big fan of the Original Ghost Recon on the PC, didn't like any of the other ones though, Future soldier especially made me believe GR was ultimately dead

I like the premise of the game and hope the offline SP is good with decent AI command tactics and mission variety, even though i'm not a huge fan of open world games i will give this a shot when it releases and hope for the best.
As for Female operators, i always liked customizing my Ghost Team before each mission and hope i can customize my AI teammates too, Female operators are welcome and would be a great addition to the roster, i always had Cohen on my OGR team ;)

dalereo
03-25-2016, 12:23 PM
for people who think Ghost Recon never had female operators, they did, look before GRFS time, females in GR has existed, for others who say females aren't in SF, check the real world, female US Army Rangers just graduated few week/months back, the question is "will Ubi put female characters in GR again?". It'd be cool to see that, but I think a cap, black tactical glasses, headphones, and half mask is enough for me Ima have to crush your on that claim of them passing Ranger school, The standard was lowered for them. so most of us in Combat Arms or SOFAC do not see them as passing and i dont care what john or jane public say they didnt earn that tab and will never get there scrolls. Personally if a character in a video game bothers you so much i highly suggest you stop playing and seek help since you seem to have issues.





Source. U.S Army 1st ID 4th IBCT Iraq Combat Vet.

dalereo
03-25-2016, 12:25 PM
Also id like to point out just going to Ranger School doesent make you SF, Only Ranger SF is the 75th RR the rest are Bats and legit but not considered SF.

Cortexian
03-28-2016, 04:42 AM
Yes, realistically until some female soldiers pass the same special forces training requirements without "adjustments", IMO they are not combat-effective. There's a reason these guys are supposed to be as in-shape and intelligent as they are. They need to be able to work as a team and respond with ruthless effeciency while under enormous amounts of stress.

IMO, if some females can pass all the same training and fitness requirements as the male SF soldiers, regardless of which countries SF it is, then they are equally as qualified to be in the ****. But while the bar is continually lowered to appease the social status equilibriam and get females "through special forces training"... I wouldn't consider them SF or equally qualified.

That's my personal take on the real life bits.

As for Ghost Recon Wildlands, I don't really care as long as the character has a well detailed story and reason for being there. It doesn't need to justify her gender either, she simply needs to be qualified. Maybe an Israeli IDF or CIA asset or something that gets attached to the Ghost team for a mission here and there because she has a speciality.

Speaking os Israeli soldiers:
http://www.zahal.org/groups/tacgirls

Actual IDF tactical instructors. They run courses around the world, including the firing range/gun store that I personally work at. They know their stuff. Ran an IWI Tavor TAR-21 training course up here that was extremely popular.

StealthTallyFox
03-29-2016, 12:16 PM
Ima have to crush your on that claim of them passing Ranger school, The standard was lowered for them. so most of us in Combat Arms or SOFAC do not see them as passing and i dont care what john or jane public say they didnt earn that tab and will never get there scrolls. Personally if a character in a video game bothers you so much i highly suggest you stop playing and seek help since you seem to have issues.





Source. U.S Army 1st ID 4th IBCT Iraq Combat Vet.

read the articles again buddy, they got the same standard with their male counterparts, of course some will say they lowered the standards or they were given extra training before the course, oh I'd like to see even if we gave everyone that "extra training" time, would they have more chances passing Rangers school? nope. heck, I've heard stories too about people still failing after several tries to any near SF-related training(that's the extra training for males if you ask me), at least these women passed. what? not getting into 75th Regiment don't make you SF? heck, as far as I can tell(from looking on the internet, which is NOT a legit source of course), there is not much difference from 75th to other Ranger Regiments except that they are on USSOC and they have more training after getting in, which those women can get if they are in the 75th, but they didn't.

wait.... what? I'm bothered by the char in game? we're talking about in game feature here, which I have CLEARLY stated that if such feature doesn't exist, I'm totally fine with putting a baseball cap, black tac glasses, tact headphones, and half mask on my character, all in all, good day for you sir.

ES-Ulukai
03-29-2016, 05:56 PM
There was female characters in GR1 and 2, they were specialist to add on the team so i'm not against playable female characters in the game.

Kydd_Amigo
03-29-2016, 09:20 PM
Since it's purely cosmetic and has no affect on abilities it'd make sense just to include the option to play a female. Personally I never play female characters, that's just my preference. So even if Ubi included the feature, it's not like we're being forced to use it.

Either way, I'd be surprised at the people raising the topic, feel like it's more just to create a divisive dialogue on a controversial issue.

I play games to get away from RL, not to bring all the hassle of it in here.

SuperBiscotCOT
03-30-2016, 12:12 PM
People play games differently :rolleyes:
I rarely play female characters but I know (as we can see this topic is "hot" ) that a lot of people pay attention to this detail.

MC-thaisocom
04-19-2016, 12:06 PM
While there are no female SF operator IRL.GR is a game, so there no harm in having the option, right? No need to be so serious.

SuperBiscotCOT
04-19-2016, 01:37 PM
Sometimes people forget that we are talking about video games and not IRL ...

Unswayed
04-20-2016, 07:28 AM
If there is PROPER customization of any kind in this game you will and should have the ability to make your character a female. You should also be able to select your skin tone. To me these should be the bare minimum standards.

True customization is in-depth and inclusive.

Magsmp31
04-20-2016, 01:57 PM
If there is PROPER customization of any kind in this game you will and should have the ability to make your character a female. You should also be able to select your skin tone. To me these should be the bare minimum standards.

True customization is in-depth and inclusive.

Totally agree with this statement. GRFS was the first one not to include women operatives and the strength of the series was that it wasn't a big deal. The soldiers were just soldiers and had little to do with the plot while having everything to do with the plot. Their backstory never drove it, its was superior storytelling by a realistic Tom Clancy premise.

jihigh
04-21-2016, 10:53 AM
I don't know why this topic has to take over pretty much every video game discussion nowadays. And it's pretty much always about the inclusion of white women.

What about black, asian or latinos dudes? As playable characters i mean. Ghost lead in GRFS was black yes but he's an NPC just like the woman who flies the chopper in the first mission(isn't that the type of stuff women mostly do in the military anyway?).

If there's customization allowing you to pick your race/gender then fine. if not then fine as well. I don't know when it's become some kind of unwritten rule that every game MUST feature a playable (white)female character but it's getting annoying. Not every franchise has to wander into RPG territory.

ES-Ulukai
04-21-2016, 01:43 PM
Beeing able to create a character by choosing gender, race and others doesn't mean that the game goes RPG.

Character customisation is not a RPG thing only and don't mean the game wil have rpg mechanics, GR 1 allowed you to choose the members of you team, they were white, black, asian, latino and womens and the leader would always be the first soldier on Alpha Team ! Does it makes GR1 a RPG ?

Do not confuse player customisation with RPG mechanics and gameplay.

DanHibikiFanXM
04-21-2016, 08:10 PM
I don't know why this topic has to take over pretty much every video game discussion nowadays. And it's pretty much always about the inclusion of white women.

What about black, asian or latinos dudes? As playable characters i mean. Ghost lead in GRFS was black yes but he's an NPC just like the woman who flies the chopper in the first mission(isn't that the type of stuff women mostly do in the military anyway?).

If there's customization allowing you to pick your race/gender then fine. if not then fine as well. I don't know when it's become some kind of unwritten rule that every game MUST feature a playable (white)female character but it's getting annoying. Not every franchise has to wander into RPG territory.

Why would you assume that there would be no options for choosing a non-white ethnicity? GRAW2 had a large selection of different male and female characters that you could choose from as did both Rainbow Six Vegas games. While the customization sucks in the Division, there are also a few different ethnicities you could select as well for both male and female characters. I seriously doubt that Ubisoft would omit an ethnicity choice in Wildlands if for no other reason then to not get attacked/flamed/shamed on social media like what always happens nowadays.

MastaMikeX
04-23-2016, 08:17 PM
I hope the game ventures into Division territory when it comes to creating your main Ghost. Let's customize our guy or girl after a brief tutorial level!

Fightinghole
05-11-2016, 12:12 AM
I am hoping the single player squad/team/unit and the multiplayer is all male. I say this because if it isn't the game will not be as masculine as it could be and the game will feel more unrealistic making it no longer fun to play and harder for me to relate to. When I first played cod ghosts multiplayer and realized women were running around in the game I stopped playing it and have not played the multiplayer or bought another cod since and I am not buying infinite warfare either. I hope this is not going to be the case for Ghost Recon Wildlands. I know some people might say there are women in combat arms or someone might say that old men and young boys fought for the Germans in WW2 to make a point. Nevertheless is seems to me to be a better experience with young men in squads and teams in the multiplayer/single player fighting instead of old men and women. Anyway this is my preference and is not intended to offended anyone

Sp--pyBrown
05-11-2016, 06:53 AM
Personally, I'd like to have an all male team in the story mode. Simply for immersion's sake.

P.S. Wasn't Ghost Lead playable in coop mode?

MAVERICK-CDT
05-16-2016, 10:14 AM
Um, women are NOT special operators or even in the infantry right now. The early years of GR was completely inaccurate and unrealistic. We are a LONG way from women serving on SOF teams as full fledged operators. Yes, the doors will be open to them, but as you can see, even the top women are struggling in Ranger School and not one has even come close to completing Marine IOC. Now, could they include women in the game acting as reconnaissance assets? Absolutely. But on assault teams? No. Equality is all talk, because there is no equality in the armed forces since women are allowed to perform at a lesser physical standard to even wear the uniform than men.

Keep the team all men and have female operators as support for recon missions and other covert activities.

+1 !!

We are fed up with unrealistic women time like in rainbow Six when you have women as a special forces team member. Women are not allowed in special tema forces, not only because their strength but because other psychology aspects. Israel tried to introduce femal in special forces but they noticed that psychology impact on the men oft the team was very negative. Mens are not prepared to lost a woman in fight. So they came back from this experience and not allowed women in special forces.

So please, just keep the game realistic and don't put women in any place ! And another thing, don't promote also gay in a video game. My little daughter asked why in "The Division" the Female doctor was speaking about her wife !!

Everybody is free, but don't make puiblicity for your own vision of life and feminism. Just keep the game as neutral as you can like an Arma or agame like this if you want it to be realistic !

AI BLUEFOX
05-16-2016, 12:57 PM
+1 !!

We are fed up with unrealistic women time like in rainbow Six when you have women as a special forces team member. Women are not allowed in special tema forces, not only because their strength but because other psychology aspects. Israel tried to introduce femal in special forces but they noticed that psychology impact on the men oft the team was very negative. Mens are not prepared to lost a woman in fight. So they came back from this experience and not allowed women in special forces.

So please, just keep the game realistic and don't put women in any place ! And another thing, don't promote also gay in a video game. My little daughter asked why in "The Division" the Female doctor was speaking about her wife !!

Everybody is free, but don't make puiblicity for your own vision of life and feminism. Just keep the game as neutral as you can like an Arma or agame like this if you want it to be realistic !

The FBI allow female operators and the Navy Seals opens to females in September this year so R6 is on the right track. As for your homophobic comment about the Division, really dude? Really? You are happy to expose your child to a shooting game but not the reality that same sex marriage is legal? Words fail me and it's not often that happens.

ITK5
05-16-2016, 02:40 PM
Sometimes people forget that we are talking about video games and not IRL ...
Wait...what???
This is only a game?
But I took the Red pill!
https://images.rapgenius.com/04f4d84356eca842fa69cc8a3546af5b.480x360x1.jpg

SammyTheRed
05-16-2016, 04:25 PM
I recently hired a West Point graduate who retired from the service a couple years back. The high-point of her military career was leading a company of military police in Iraq; she was responsible not only for leading her own soldiers but for training and coordinating with Iraqi special police, much like an Army Special Forces operator's primary duty often is training indigent forces. During her tour, she was personally involved in thirty-five different gunfights. I wouldn't have believed a slender little thing like her could have survived nearly forty gunfights--let alone one--if I hadn't demanded to see the citation that accompanied her Bronze Star.

That was pretty much the point at which I decided that I was done with the whole "women don't belong in combat, either in games or in real life" conversation.

DanHibikiFanXM
05-16-2016, 05:26 PM
I knew a lot of badass women in the military. I distinctly remember a few that outperformed a lot of the dudes going through AIT at Fort Sam - both physically and intellectually. I think there were a few that even surpassed me and I was among the top of my 68W class back in 08. I know for a fact they would have made better infantrymen than the turds that started coming out of Benning around the same time that ended up at 10th Mountain with me.

In the end this topic is pointless to me. There have been female Ghosts since the first game. It's official. End of story.

Timberley
05-17-2016, 02:51 AM
Just keep the game as neutral as you can like an Arma or agame like this if you want it to be realistic !

Err... you realise Arma is entirely unrealistic the other way don't you by having no women at all? Not even female civilians. Given that even the tutorial level is supposed to be set in a peacekeeping environment, I'd expect to see women there, even as civvies/refugees. However, this is not the case, making Arma entirely unrealistic.

Further, the unit I work with a lot is a recce/intel unit, with a Hills phase and all that good stuff, with a bunch of females in it. Admittedly, the women are all super fit, most of them being fitness fanatics, but still... As far as I can tell as well, the women are expected to pull their weight on exercise, lest they be judged harshly on their annual review, with all that that implies.

Plus, this is a video game... It's not about reality.

Tim

Sp--pyBrown
05-17-2016, 08:18 AM
How many female Ghosts were in GRFS?


It's official. End of story.

Lol:D



Is it really that necessary to allocate more resources on something like this?

Timberley
05-17-2016, 01:57 PM
How many female Ghosts were in GRFS?

True, but GRFS wasn't really a GR game, more like a travesty in GR clothing. The operators in the squad were the worst characters I think I've ever interacted with. I couldn't stand them at all. Sadly, they were immune to death too. :(

The characterisation in R6:S is much better, and that's only some brief biographies and an intro video (for the originals).

I think the main point that we're arguing here is that we would all like to be able to play in different ways. Some want a total sausage-fest, some want The Spice Girls (Ghost Recon edition), and some want to be able to mix and match. Is it worth the resources? Depends on how much Ubi want to increase their sales really. If their metrics show that people would be more likely to buy the game if they had the option to create custom operators/have different sexes for SP and MP, then of course they would allocate resources to it. And, to be honest, most Ubisoft games tend to share some resources (look at the running with SMG animation in The Division and tell me that's not from GRFS), so I suspect that some of the harder work has been done already.

Tim

DanHibikiFanXM
05-17-2016, 02:04 PM
Yes, it is. This little thing adds a lot to the marketability of the game and makes it more inclusive. FS was literally the only major GR title to not have female characters - it WAS noticed by the community and became one of the most demanded features on these forums. We are getting male characters, we will have an avatar to identify with...it's kind of messed up to not allow female gamers the same considering there have been female characters since the start of the franchise.

To me this is a core concept for GR if not just about every TC franchise title.

Sp--pyBrown
05-17-2016, 02:57 PM
I think the main point that we're arguing here is that we would all like to be able to play in different ways.

If we can pick and choose our team, sure. Options are good.

I just wouldn't want to be forced to play with an action hero team that's straight out of the wet dreams of some State Department desk clerk.

Immersion and authenticity is still what it's about, right?

Timberley
05-17-2016, 03:12 PM
If we can pick and choose our team, sure. Options are good.

I just wouldn't want to be forced to play with an action hero team that's straight out of the wet dreams of some State Department desk clerk.

Immersion and authenticity is still what it's about, right?

Yes and no. To me, the GR franchise is authentic gunplay and scenarios in a fictional day after tomorrow setting, backed up with diverse options for the squad you take out, and good damage models, with no health regen. Kind of straddling the line between Arma and MGS.

To turn your previous point on it's head, I wouldn't want to play with the GRFS crew again, or be forced to play in an all-male squad of 4. That, to me, would be an instant 'no sale'. Why? Well, mainly because I play Arma for that. GR is more power fantasy than pure mil-sim, and so I appreciate things like being able to choose an all-female team for fun, or have a mix-and-match.

Tim

DanHibikiFanXM
05-17-2016, 06:51 PM
If we can pick and choose our team, sure. Options are good.

I just wouldn't want to be forced to play with an action hero team that's straight out of the wet dreams of some State Department desk clerk.

Immersion and authenticity is still what it's about, right?

On this issue...no.

If GR never featured female characters ever because of the original devs wanting to making it as realistic as possible, then there would be a case that could be made here. Including female characters was a conscious design decision that wasn't an issue until GRFS when people noticed there weren't playable females. I don't ever remember hearing complaints about Susan Grey, Lindy Cohen, or Astra Galinsky being in the first game. I never remembered hearing complaints about Jennifer Burke or Alicia Diaz in GR2-SS. I never remembered any complaints about Diaz being in GRAW or GRAW2 either. The only time I ever heard complaints about female characters was during the GRAW2 days when people would swear that the female character models in the MP were smaller than the male ones - supposedly making them harder to hit. To this day I still view this perspective as unfounded and reeking of saltiness over losing matches. Even here the beef was with potential gameplay issues and not authenticity or realism ones.

I won't use a female character, but I wouldn't want to take the ability away from someone that wants to particularly because of the history of this franchise.

Sp--pyBrown
05-17-2016, 08:12 PM
That was actually one of the few things I liked about GRFS. Whatever, it's the devs who make the call. Let's hope they give us options.

SammyTheRed
05-17-2016, 08:15 PM
I just wouldn't want to be forced to play with an action hero team that's straight out of the wet dreams of some State Department desk clerk.

Immersion and authenticity is still what it's about, right?

I love immersion and authenticity! That's why I think it's utterly stupid to insist that the game be built so that we only ever hear a woman's voice coming out of a man's mouth for those of us who end up playing through the cooperative campaign with female players.

AI BLUEFOX
05-17-2016, 09:29 PM
Sammy, I do believe you've just slam dunked this one. Well played

Sp--pyBrown
05-17-2016, 09:51 PM
I love immersion and authenticity! That's why I think it's utterly stupid to insist that the game be built so that we only ever hear a woman's voice coming out of a man's mouth for those of us who end up playing through the cooperative campaign with female players.

I like how you decided to cut that first paragraph out of my post.


Options are good.

Didn't fit your edgy z-formation snap burn, did it? I'm so sorry:D

SammyTheRed
05-18-2016, 01:53 PM
I like how you decided to cut that first paragraph out of my post.



Didn't fit your edgy z-formation snap burn, did it? I'm so sorry:D


Oh, I was originally going to break my reply into two parts, where the first was going to address to some apparent misapprehensions about the United States Department of State. I decided it wasn't relevant but forgot to elide out the related part of the quote.

Heycrowe
05-19-2016, 11:35 PM
Women should not be implemented into this game. It's unrealistic and would only serve as a constant reminder that the small minority had to be catered to so that they wouldn't throw a temper tantrum. My apologies to any girls who want to play a female character, but not a single woman has yet successfully completed Marine officer combat school (or whatever it's called). A couple made it through the Rangers, because lets face it - it's the Army and they lowered the standards. No women will ever make it through BUD/S (SEAL training) if they do open it up to women. The instructors and the community won't let the Navy lower the standards and therefore no woman will even be able to make it through pre-BUD/S. Don't even get me started on JSOC - which is the type of community this game is getting at with the Ghosts (if we are talking realism).

I know it's not politically correct to say this in our overly-sensitive and moronic society that deems "fluid-transgenders" have the right to use whatever bathroom they choose on any given day, but if you are male playing a female character you should not be playing shooters. You should be playing with your sister's Barbie doll. Seriously, it's creepy and weird. Man up.

OROCHI SETSU
05-26-2016, 12:14 PM
Not sure why anyone would have a problem with this. If the stories are to be believed the Intelligence Support Activity group of the U.S. Army has female operators, and they're the ones in JSOC under INSCOMthat get SF groups like 1st S-FOD and Devgru the Intel they need to do the things they do.

the_oper8r
05-26-2016, 01:44 PM
Not sure why anyone would have a problem with this. If the stories are to be believed the Intelligence Support Activity group of the U.S. Army has female operators, and they're the ones in JSOC under INSCOM that get SF groups like 1st S-FOD and Devgru the Intel they need to do the things they do.

Neither DEVGRU nor 1st SFOD-D/CAG/Delta have female members. Not even in the support roles since Delta has their own intelligence detachment known as Funny Platoon. DEVGRU gets most of their combat support from the rest of the Navy. ISA would definitely doesn't have female members in it either, since all the members are recruited from from Army Special Forces and Delta. But still I agree female characters shouldn't be a problem in this game, Ghost Recon has had them since the first game.

Cortexian
05-27-2016, 12:29 AM
I think that Orochi was getting at the fact that female operators have been attached to these units. They aren't members, but they're more than capable of showing up for the job and working as assets to the SF guys.

Andrew_Sparrow
05-27-2016, 12:58 AM
Hey author! You Sir, read my mind!
Just after WE ARE GHOSTS trailer, I got interested if there will be an option to choose a female character in game, so I decided to go to forums to start a new topic. And wow, the moment I login, it's the first topic I see for Wildlands section, so cool I'm not alone here) And just to be clear, I rarely post anywhere, just this matter got me willing to let my opinion be heard.

So yeah, UBI, I'm a male gamer, and I ALWAYS pick female characters in my games: fallout, skyrim, division beta, etc. and what not, naming them after my wife (if giving your character a name is a feature). So please, please, pretty please make it an option!


P.S. offtopic here - the XP-BOOST in preorder(preorder or non standard edition, cant recall) description of the game got me freightened. Is wildlands a shooter or an RPG like division? Because I would hate to headshot a guy in bandana with a sniper rifle, and not kill him. I was going to preorder the golden edition of the game, and now I'm worried. If it's rpg a-la division style, I'm sorry, you'll never see my money, even if female characters will be present there too.

the_oper8r
05-27-2016, 02:06 AM
I think that Orochi was getting at the fact that female operators have been attached to these units. They aren't members, but they're more than capable of showing up for the job and working as assets to the SF guys.

I'm sorry if this is going to sound offensive but it's not the same thing. First of all there are no records of women from Cultural Support Units or otherwise working with Delta/CAG or ISA forces, even in an attached role. And as per the Army Special Forces, it's extremely rare, and still at that point the women aren't actually doing any of the fighting. They'll just carry a weapon for the obvious purpose of self defense. I mean it's the same reason there are next to no women on CIA SOG/SAD or Ground Branch, none of the roles they serve in those units actually qualify them to the same degree as the men in those units.

Cortexian
05-27-2016, 03:52 AM
I haven't been in any firefights, not sure if you have either, but I'm pretty sure that if you're attached to a unit like that and SHTF.... You fire your weapon and participate in the fight, regardless of gender, if you plan to continue living.

Anyway, it's not really relevant. IMO the Ghost Recon franchise had female characters in the team previously. There's no reason not to continue that in the franchise if the devs feel it's something that would benefit the game.

the_oper8r
05-27-2016, 04:22 AM
I haven't been in any firefights, not sure if you have either, but I'm pretty sure that if you're attached to a unit like that and SHTF.... You fire your weapon and participate in the fight, regardless of gender, if you plan to continue living.

Anyway, it's not really relevant. IMO the Ghost Recon franchise had female characters in the team previously. There's no reason not to continue that in the franchise if the devs feel it's something that would benefit the game.

Like I said earlier, I'm completely 100% for female Ghosts, it's been done before and there's no reason to stop now. Yes I said that they will fight but like I said that's if there's an ambush or something of the sort, but they don't take Cultural Support Teams with a few women on a direct action or search and destroy operation. They'll bring them if they need them in the situation of talking to locals where the women won't communicate with outsider men.

So to sum it up- Female soldiers in Wildlands- Sure, why not?
Women will fight if they're out with a SF and something goes bad.
Those special operation forces won't specifically employ women all that often for a convention "just kill people" mission.

And I don't know this from experience (not even old enough to enlist), I do have a few family friends and relatives that have experience in the field, and I've also had a huge interest in military history and political science for a long time.

StealthTallyFox
05-27-2016, 05:46 AM
well... we all forget one thing don't we.... this is Ghost Recon... not Delta or DEVGRU so... yeah, they do use females as an operatives, so I found no trouble at it

Cortexian
05-27-2016, 05:47 AM
Honestly, I could see advantages to a small unit going into a foreign country having use of a female operator. There are certain situations and locals that a female would be able to obtain more valuable intel then a male. Various intelligence agencies tend to employ women for this reason.

That's how I'd like to see women implemented in the single-player/cooperative side of things for Wildlands. If it makes sense that there should be a female character present, then present one. I'm indifferent as to if they're selectable as playable characters for single-player.

As for multiplayer elements of the game, I think they should simply add female "operators" for the additional level of customization that they would provide. When playing PVP,

Captain_Summers
05-27-2016, 01:12 PM
As a female myself, and an avid gamer since 1979, not to mention Ghost Recon 2 is my fav. all time PC game, then PLEASE, allow me to play as a woman in this game. To force me to play as a male removes a great deal of immersion and connection to the character / game.

This shouldn't even be an issue, but as someone who today has pre-ordered the Gold Bundle, don't screw me over Ubisoft.

the_oper8r
05-27-2016, 04:41 PM
Honestly, I could see advantages to a small unit going into a foreign country having use of a female operator. There are certain situations and locals that a female would be able to obtain more valuable intel then a male. Various intelligence agencies tend to employ women for this reason.

That's how I'd like to see women implemented in the single-player/cooperative side of things for Wildlands. If it makes sense that there should be a female character present, then present one. I'm indifferent as to if they're selectable as playable characters for single-player.

As for multiplayer elements of the game, I think they should simply add female "operators" for the additional level of customization that they would provide. When playing PVP,

Completely agree with all of this.

KrishaChaos
05-27-2016, 04:44 PM
As a female myself, and an avid gamer since 1979, not to mention Ghost Recon 2 is my fav. all time PC game, then PLEASE, allow me to play as a woman in this game. To force me to play as a male removes a great deal of immersion and connection to the character / game.

Exactly... It's not like I haven't been forced to pretend I'm a guy to play games since I was little (at least on Atari you really couldn't tell if it was a girl or a guy unless it had a name) I just would rather play a character that I can visually relate to. It is more enjoyable for me to play a female character.

Sp--pyBrown
05-27-2016, 04:51 PM
but as someone who today has pre-ordered the Gold Bundle, don't screw me over Ubisoft.

Haha, you should check Ubisoft's track record on f*cking customers over before trusting them with a pre-order:D

Magsmp31
05-27-2016, 08:22 PM
I wouldn't worry about XP because the original GR was very much a role playing style game when you think about it. A generic soldier who you could upgrade points on ranging from toughness to stealth. its only RPGish when they have unrealistic skills associated with the level up.

Captain_Summers
06-03-2016, 02:58 PM
When can we hope for someone from UBI to clarify this issue? I know on the 'The Division' forums, Ubi never bother to respond to any question, but is this forum different?

SammyTheRed
06-03-2016, 03:10 PM
When can we hope for someone from UBI to clarify this issue? I know on the 'The Division' forums, Ubi never bother to respond to any question, but is this forum different?

Unfortunately, if I was their lawyer, I'd probably be sending them daily emails reminding them not to make any direct promises to a consumer who has expressly told them that she would rely on the specific affirmation as part of the basis of the bargain--at least until he's absolutely, positively sure he can deliver. But as a male gamer, I'm very glad you're here to express your point of view on why playing as a character with whom you can more closely identify is important to you. I'm sure one of the community management folks will pass that along.

UbiKeeba
06-03-2016, 03:10 PM
We haven't released any details on customization yet.

UbiKeeba
06-03-2016, 03:12 PM
Unfortunately, if I was their lawyer, I'd probably be sending them daily emails reminding them not to make any direct promises to a consumer who has expressly told them that she would rely on the specific affirmation as part of the basis of the bargain--at least until he's absolutely, positively sure he can deliver. But as a male gamer, I'm very glad you're here to express your point of view on why playing as a character with whom you can more closely identify is important to you. I'm sure one of the community management folks will pass that along.

Believe me, I forward all feedback given on this form on. :)

Reinier-dash
06-03-2016, 09:43 PM
lets hope they add females then

Captain_Summers
06-03-2016, 11:38 PM
But as a male gamer, I'm very glad you're here to express your point of view on why playing as a character with whom you can more closely identify is important to you.

Ok, I want to be considerate of how I phrase this because despite what you said, you are an ally and you 'get it', and I appreciate that,

BUT...

what you've said there came across (to me at least) as condescending and made me feel that it demonstrates the belief that you (and by proxy other 'male' gamers) that you have zero capability for empathy or the ability to consider things from other points of view than your own.

Should it really need to be said that having your playable character represent something akin to yourself helps form a greater attachment to the game / action / story / world, and that female players therefore having a female avatar is not patently obvious?

Do you not realise the same is true for LGBT or other ethnicities?

Do you HAVE to have someone POINT IT OUT right to your face before such a concept even occurs to you (and other male gamers / game studios)?

I fail to comprehend how it's not obvious, but I guess that's because as a 2nd class citizen I've been made well aware of the double standards and entitlement that dominates the world around me.

I'm not making a political point here - but I'm seriously stunned that the point I raised isn't obvious to anyone (male) without having to be explicit about it.

It boggles my mind.

SammyTheRed
06-03-2016, 11:51 PM
I'm very sorry you feel that way--primarily because if you'd taken just a few minutes to skim the last several pages of this thread, you'd see that a number of people did, indeed, argue that including female player models was important long before you'd ever voiced an opinion on this corner of the forums. My intent was simply to welcome you to a conversation that was already well underway before you'd decided to stop by and voice a cumulative opinion.

But if it makes you feel better, I hereby rescind my welcome and promise never to care what you think about anything. Victory is yours. You must be so proud.

the_oper8r
06-04-2016, 12:01 AM
Ok, I want to be considerate of how I phrase this because despite what you said, you are an ally and you 'get it', and I appreciate that,

BUT...

what you've said there came across (to me at least) as condescending and made me feel that it demonstrates the belief that you (and by proxy other 'male' gamers) that you have zero capability for empathy or the ability to consider things from other points of view than your own.

Should it really need to be said that having your playable character represent something akin to yourself helps form a greater attachment to the game / action / story / world, and that female players therefore having a female avatar is not patently obvious?

Do you not realise the same is true for LGBT or other ethnicities?

Do you HAVE to have someone POINT IT OUT right to your face before such a concept even occurs to you (and other male gamers / game studios)?

I fail to comprehend how it's not obvious, but I guess that's because as a 2nd class citizen I've been made well aware of the double standards and entitlement that dominates the world around me.

I'm not making a political point here - but I'm seriously stunned that the point I raised isn't obvious to anyone (male) without having to be explicit about it.

It boggles my mind.

Damg was trying to be polite and you spun it into some sort of insult. Chill. We've all acknowledged that playing as a female should be possible, there's only 19 pages about it now :/

Captain_Summers
06-04-2016, 12:07 AM
I'm very sorry you feel that way--primarily because if you'd taken just a few minutes to skim the last several pages of this thread, you'd see that a number of people did, indeed, argue that including female player models was important long before you'd ever voiced an opinion on this corner of the forums. My intent was simply to welcome you to a conversation that was already well underway before you'd decided to stop by and voice a cumulative opinion.

But if it makes you feel better, I hereby rescind my welcome and promise never to care what you think about anything. Victory is yours. You must be so proud.

That's not my intent. And yes, I have followed and read these 19 pages.

And I did try and preface this with I appreciated your ally-ness, and perhaps, as I warned and feared, I was clumsy in the way I addressed it, but my point was, why should it take 19 pages on a forum, or me, or anyone else pointing it out.

Why isn't 'it' just patently obvious?

That's what I'm struggling with.

Look at the history with female avatars in Assassin's Creed. And the pathetic / sexist excuse from the dev team. Look at the poor 'character creation' in The Division - for an RPG that they hope you will continue to sink your time into week after week and into year(s), the fact that there are only I think 3 or 4 female heads, yet ONLY male proportion bodies, is appalling.

So it's not just this post, on this corner of these forums, but a hugely greater issue / epidemic, and the fact that it's not obvious to everyone is the point I have issue with.

That's all.

SammyTheRed
06-04-2016, 12:18 AM
That's not my intent. And yes, I have followed and read these 19 pages.

And I did try and preface this with I appreciated your ally-ness, and perhaps, as I warned and feared, I was clumsy in the way I addressed it, but my point was, why should it take 19 pages on a forum, or me, or anyone else pointing it out.

Why isn't 'it' just patently obvious?

That's what I'm struggling with.

Look at the history with female avatars in Assassin's Creed. And the pathetic / sexist excuse from the dev team. Look at the poor 'character creation' in The Division - for an RPG that they hope you will continue to sink your time into week after week and into year(s), the fact that there are only I think 3 or 4 female heads, yet ONLY male proportion bodies, is appalling.

So it's not just this post, on this corner of these forums, but a hugely greater issue / epidemic, and the fact that it's not obvious to everyone is the point I have issue with.

That's all.

TL;DR.

The great thing about being a 35-year-old civil rights lawyer is that I don't have to worry that some angsty millennial is going to somehow outdo my social justice warrior street cred.

Captain_Summers
06-04-2016, 12:22 AM
TL;DR.

The great thing about being a 35-year-old civil rights lawyer is that I don't have to worry that some angsty millennial is going to somehow outdo my social justice warrior street cred.

So you weren't misunderstood. Just an arrogant pr**k.

I'm 45 and a Captain with a regional Airline, so as a lawyer, I'd suggest you spend more time on research and less on writing cheques your mouth can't cash.

the_oper8r
06-04-2016, 12:27 AM
So you weren't misunderstood. Just an arrogant pr**k.

I'm 45 and a Captain with a regional Airline, so as a lawyer, I'd suggest you spend more time on research and less on writing cheques your mouth can't cash.

Calm down SJW. No need to get so heated about this. Is 19 pages not obvious enough? Honestly who here has said any extremely unreasonable or made sexist remarks regarding the inclusion of female characters? No one. It's 19 pages however, of people agreeing that female characters should be included. They've been in Ghost Recon so me the first ****ing game. If that's not "obvious" enough, I don't know what is. Stop antagonizing the guy. You started this for no reason whatsoever.

Captain_Summers
06-04-2016, 12:55 AM
Calm down SJW. ... Stop antagonizing the guy. ...

1. Not an SJW, and since when does having empathy / consideration for others make one a bad person?
2. Aww, sticking up for the poor boy. You must be frat buddies that need to hold each others hands at night.

Grow up.

the_oper8r
06-04-2016, 01:19 AM
1. Not an SJW, and since when does having empathy / consideration for others make one a bad person?
2. Aww, sticking up for the poor boy. You must be frat buddies that need to hold each others hands at night.

Grow up.

1. You're sure as hell acting like it. Claiming that men don't recognize female's problems? Check. Claiming that you have less rights? (you stated, sarcastically or not, that you are treated as a 2nd class citizen) Check. Saying that your "issue" isn't obvious enough even though everyone has acknowledged it? Check. Finally antagonizing someone and acting "oppressed" when the guy wa trying to be accepting.
2. No no, I just know how not to be an *******. Stop being a hypocrite.

UbiKeeba
06-04-2016, 03:00 AM
I'm closing this thread due to the fact that it has become toxic. All discussions on this thread are to be handled in a respectful manner.