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View Full Version : Effectiveness of A9 D9 and TA152



Mike8686
08-19-2004, 08:37 AM
I'd like to know at what altitudes these aircraft are most effective. I know that A9s effectiveness drops drastically in comparison to other A/C after 6000m and so when using it I hang around 6000m and look for enemy A/C from up there. I'm not sure till what altitude D9 remains effective performance wise in comparison to other aircraft, I think its at its best between 4000m and 6000m (you guys correct me if Im wrong). The TA is a wierd birdie, I find it it almost as effective as D9 below 7000m (It climbs better than D9 and has better low speed handling, D9 is a bit faster rolls way better and has slightly better high speed handling), and above 7000m its performance just skyrockets, it gets fast as hell and its rate of climb remains good compared to other A/C (however I have trouble maintaining the engine real high up). So I need u guys to tell me if all of this is true and up to what altitude D9 is effective. Also, if caught by a mustang or spitty, alone with little or no E-advantage in one of these, are there any tactics besides escape? Escape is real easy on these but I'd like to learn a few tactics for 1v1s with them. I dunno about the A9, a 1v1 with not much E advantage on it seems pretty tricky, but I dont see why the D9 or TA shouldnt be able to pull something off. It would probably be trickier than the simple TnB of the spitty, but I dont see why its not possible.

Mike8686
08-19-2004, 08:37 AM
I'd like to know at what altitudes these aircraft are most effective. I know that A9s effectiveness drops drastically in comparison to other A/C after 6000m and so when using it I hang around 6000m and look for enemy A/C from up there. I'm not sure till what altitude D9 remains effective performance wise in comparison to other aircraft, I think its at its best between 4000m and 6000m (you guys correct me if Im wrong). The TA is a wierd birdie, I find it it almost as effective as D9 below 7000m (It climbs better than D9 and has better low speed handling, D9 is a bit faster rolls way better and has slightly better high speed handling), and above 7000m its performance just skyrockets, it gets fast as hell and its rate of climb remains good compared to other A/C (however I have trouble maintaining the engine real high up). So I need u guys to tell me if all of this is true and up to what altitude D9 is effective. Also, if caught by a mustang or spitty, alone with little or no E-advantage in one of these, are there any tactics besides escape? Escape is real easy on these but I'd like to learn a few tactics for 1v1s with them. I dunno about the A9, a 1v1 with not much E advantage on it seems pretty tricky, but I dont see why the D9 or TA shouldnt be able to pull something off. It would probably be trickier than the simple TnB of the spitty, but I dont see why its not possible.

karost
08-19-2004, 10:22 AM
Hi, Mike8686
for me it depend on what kind of opponent's plane to hunting with


spritfire,p-38,yak3 I like 190D to deal with
and if I have to face with p-51,p-47 I like to use TA152

190d is batter then 109K if I keep my speed over 400 km/h , just don't let anyone stay over my head, 2x20mm is good for knock spritfire,p-38,yak3 , before attack I have to build one of two energy adventage ,altitude advantage or speed advantage , before enter to combat area.

I like Ta152 to deal with p-51 and p-47 just only one reason that is DM in p-51, p-47 are stronger same as bomber b-17 ( but that is not work of 1 vs 1 solution if altitude for start combat lower then 7000m. )

S!

[This message was edited by karost on Thu August 19 2004 at 09:33 AM.]

robban75
08-19-2004, 10:34 AM
The A-9 is one of the fastest fighter in FB/AEP. Especially at low altitudes, its superiors in this field is the D-9 and La-7, and possibly the P-63. The Mustang is pretty much on par with the A-9.
The A-9 suffers from a greatly undermodelled climbrate in-game. It should pretty much climb like a D-9 up to around 5000m, but that it wont happen in its current state.

The D-9 is the speediest bird in FB/AEP along with the La-7. Max speed is 612km/h at SL. Above 5000m, the D-9 45' is only bested by the K-4, Ta 152H and D-9 44'. The D-9 44' is the overall best performing Fw 190, its SL topspeed is undermodelled, lacking some 15-17km/h. But apart from this it is some 15km/h faster at alt compared to the 45' version.

The Ta 152 is overmodelled in climb at the lower alts, and at altitudes above 7000m it seems too sluggish for a dedicated high alt fighter. Even the La-7 has a better rate of climb at this altitude. The Spitfire IX(any version) comfortably outperforms the Ta 152 at all altitudes, but especially up high.

Link to some FB/AEP climbtests. http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=541109106

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

Mike8686
08-19-2004, 10:53 AM
But up to what altitude is the D9 good for? Whats the difference between 45 and 44 D9? And gimme some 1v1 fighting tactics should u have any.

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-19-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike8686:
But up to what altitude is the D9 good for? Whats the difference between 45 and 44 D9? And gimme some 1v1 fighting tactics should u have any.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. My findings say (in FB) that the D9 is good at almost any altitude.

2. The 44' has "Erhote Notliestlung"(sp?) whereas the 45' has MW50 for boost. The bottom line is the 44' is less susceptible to burnt engine syndrome than the 45' model and is slightly faster.

3. Tactics really depend on the adversary (plane and pilot) and the situation. I know that sounds obvious, but it's not that simple.
a. Keep your speed advantage
b. Start with altitude ("E") advantage and try to maintain that as well.

TB


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

TheGozr
08-19-2004, 11:50 AM
Is is me or i found the Ta better at low then high altitudes..?

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-19-2004, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Is is me or i found the Ta better at low then high altitudes..?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not just you...she's a good performer down low too. Most people don't EVER get above 4k much less in the Ta152 so it's hard to see how it compares against other birds. I think comparitively it performs well up high. The P-47 and P-51 are competitive though.

TB


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

Maj_Death
08-19-2004, 11:57 AM
Which I fly depends on my opponents and the altitude. For engagements with tough planes like the P-47 I'll take the hard hitting Fw-190A9. It is also my first choice if the fight will be below 6000m. For engagements vs very fast but fragile planes such as the P-51 and La-7 I'll take the slightly quicker D9. The D9 is also my pick for fights that will likely be above 6000m. If I think I'm actually going to be fighting people at 11,000m then I'll take a Ta-152H. Needless to say I don't fly the Ta much, but I do fly it more often than you might think. For me, combat at 11,000m does actually happen periodically in a DF server.

These preferences are based on firepower vs performance. All the performance in the world doesn't do any good if you lack the firepower to kill anyone. The D9 simply lacks the punch of the A9, so I only fly the D9 if I am fighting fragile opponents or absolutely must have the added performance.

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Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

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robban75
08-19-2004, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike8686:
But up to what altitude is the D9 good for? Whats the difference between 45 and 44 D9? And gimme some 1v1 fighting tactics should u have any.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The D-9 becomes really sluggish above 7000m. Its best fighting altitude is 3500m-4500m.

The 44 D-9 has C3 fuel(98 grade) and the 45 D-9 uses B4 fuel(87 grade). With Erh├┬Âten Notleistung the 44 D-9 was capable of 621km/h at SL(606km/h in game) and 717km/h at 5500m.
The 45 D-9 can almost match the 44 D-9 thanks to MW50 injection. Its topspeed at SL is 612km/h and 702km/h at 5500m.

The 44 D-9 is lighter since it carries no MW50. Overall, the 44 D-9 is a slightly better performer than the 45 version. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If you are in a tight situation that requires some turning, use combat flaps. These greatly increase the D-9's lowspeed manouverability. Just be gentle with the stick, make no rapid inputs. But you can use high deflection on the yoke. Take her up in QMB and practise tight manouvers with combat flaps, you'd be surprised how well she can turn.

If you have alt to spare don't hesitate to dive away. The superior speed of the Dora will help you outfly all opponents as you extend away, just beware of the La-7 it has a similar topspeed. If he follows you in the dive you need at least 850-900km/h IAS to build separation.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

IV_JG51_Prien
08-19-2004, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Most people don't EVER get above 4k much less in the Ta152 so it's hard to see how it compares against other birds<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know it's funny.. Whenever I've flown the TA152 I've always taken 'er up into the high blue... and then I fly around forever w/o finding anybody to bounce, I think with the settings I run on my machine I have a hard time seeing people that are WAAAY below me.

It's been rare that I find the odd P-51 or P-47 up there with me.. People just love teh low alt furballz0rz. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.jg51.net/downloads/squadbanner.bmp

Atomic_Marten
08-19-2004, 08:15 PM
Fact is that I don't play much online. But when I do I have a hard time to find anyone who's willing to fly high http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif (no matter friends or oppo's). Literally. In DM server room where is about 20 ppl. With these circumstances I have to spend a lot of time and nerves circling on about 5000m (because on higher alt I can't see anyone below due to my visual settings & enraging myopia) and to eventually spot someone (once it takes about 30mins).

But what I really wanna ask here is if someone can compare D-9'44&'45 with Ta-152 in game. I have noticed that Fw-190D-9's have far better roll-rate, apart from that I cannot say much. I know about D-9 far more than Ta152 (except that I can fall into some really nasty spins if careless http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif). In "Aircraft viewer" for Ta-152 disadvantages it is mentioned that "...Ta-152 low alt's performances are not that stellar..."... is that mean that Dora have better low alt performances? If someone can take quick comparison here it would be appreciated. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fly high http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
08-19-2004, 09:44 PM
In game:

-Ta-152 slight climb advantage until about 4,300m. Then same until about 6,500m. Then Ta-152 gains a decent advantage ove D-9 from 6,500m up. In short, Ta-climbs a little better.

-Speed: D-9 slightly faster at SL. D-9 gains a little more advantage from 1,000m to 3,000m. From about 3,000m to 4,500m they are nearly the same. Then D-9 gains a decent (about 20km/h advantage from 4,500m to 7,500m. Ta-152 then rapidly pulls away above 7,500m and becomes faster while max speed of D-9 declines.

-Turn: Ta-152 out-turns the D-9 under all conditions AFAIK.

-Armament, I prefer the Ta-152's 2x20mm and one 30mm over the D-9's 2x13mm and 2x 20mm.

-I believe D-9 accelerates quicker than Ta-152 and this may help it dive climb a little better at high speed.

My impression is that the D-9 is actually a little better and feels faster, but the Ta-152 handles nice if careful and has good armament. D-9 '44 also seems to have a more sturdy engine that can be abused more than the Ta-152 with MW-50. But I prefer the A-9 over both http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif, unless it becomes a P-51D, P-63C, or La-7 fest, then I usually go D-9 but I want to start seeing what the Ta-152 has as it seems a little better since last patch (less stall spin prone). But I like the D-9 better because it saw alot more action in real life.

Hope this helps.

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Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

Mike8686
08-20-2004, 01:55 PM
Thanks a lot guys, truly appreciate it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-20-2004, 03:20 PM
Thanks... Ta-152 have charmed me with her look http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif, her wings.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif
I can conclude from what's written above that D-9'44 is maybe the best performing bird in Fw190 series in game. Although I've seen posts before that in which were claims that D-9 '44 is faster than '45model, this is final confirmation. And even if I still love Ta-152 more than any other bird in Fw series, there will be, to put it this way, little need for using her (online) cause majority of fights take place under 5000m. Still, there's offline gaming http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.
I will take this opportunity to say that my favourites of Fw series are A8&9 (insane good armament), and Ta-152. Again, thx Hunde_3.JG51 and the rest of you guys for good info.

Fly fast http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Mike8686
08-20-2004, 03:48 PM
o, one last question, you've all mentioned whats better about the D9 44, does the D9 45 have any advantages over D9 44 tho?

dadada1
08-21-2004, 02:21 AM
Someone has yet to explain to me why the 45 D9 has so significantly worse handling than the 44 version, being much more sensitive to pulling back hard on the stick.

The only real advantage the 45 D9 has over the 44 D9 is a slightly (very slight) advantage in climb performance. The one big advantage of flying the 45 D9 is that if you can beat an opponent in it, your going to find the 44 easier. It does make for a good challenge though.

For the Ta, as robban and Hunde says though it's high altitude performance is undermodelled for sure.

robban75
08-21-2004, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dadada1:
Someone has yet to explain to me why the 45 D9 has so significantly worse handling than the 44 version, being much more sensitive to pulling back hard on the stick.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the D-9 '45 was slightly heavier when it carried a full tank of MW50, but I find it hard to see why it should screw up the D-9's overall manouverability as much as it does in-game. On the other hand, the Fw 190 family and P-47 is the only planes in FB/AEP that actually suffers from a high wingload.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The only real advantage the 45 D9 has over the 44 D9 is a slightly (very slight) advantage in climb performance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. It's close but the D-9 '44 is ~15 seconds faster than the '45 D-9 to 5000m. However, the '45 D-9 is somewhat faster at SL, yet it should be almost 10km/h slower.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."