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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 11:54 PM
It's quite common to read post asking about how to improve the deflection shots skills. The most common and reasonable answer is that it's less a matter of theory and more a matter of practice, which is certainly true.
Still, even deflection shots obey to some very well known and clear ballistics rules, and to get visually accustomed to how the many variables affect in various ways and degrees the shooting scenario can be of some help.
Ok, I won't make it any longer. Having this in mind, and just as a further help to the constant and patient practice, Bruno and I (but the hardest work was made by Bruno /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) have created this utility, the Sniper's Corner, based on an Excel spreadsheet, with a graphic interface.
The utility was firstly made in Italian, and now, furtherly improved, it's available with an English interface.
http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/screensh/sc.jpg


The SC with the Italian manual can be downloaded here
http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC+Ita.zip
And this is the link to download the SC with the English manual.
http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC+Engl.zip

Enjoy, if you like it. Any comment, tip, obervation etc. Is very welcome.
Lastly, we would like to thank Emmanuel Gustin for allowing us to adopt, as a basis for the weapon DB, the ballistic data published in "the wwII fighter gun debate" website
http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-in.html

Bruno and Abraxa


<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>


Message Edited on 10/23/0301:07AM by Abraxa

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 11:54 PM
It's quite common to read post asking about how to improve the deflection shots skills. The most common and reasonable answer is that it's less a matter of theory and more a matter of practice, which is certainly true.
Still, even deflection shots obey to some very well known and clear ballistics rules, and to get visually accustomed to how the many variables affect in various ways and degrees the shooting scenario can be of some help.
Ok, I won't make it any longer. Having this in mind, and just as a further help to the constant and patient practice, Bruno and I (but the hardest work was made by Bruno /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) have created this utility, the Sniper's Corner, based on an Excel spreadsheet, with a graphic interface.
The utility was firstly made in Italian, and now, furtherly improved, it's available with an English interface.
http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/screensh/sc.jpg


The SC with the Italian manual can be downloaded here
http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC+Ita.zip
And this is the link to download the SC with the English manual.
http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC+Engl.zip

Enjoy, if you like it. Any comment, tip, obervation etc. Is very welcome.
Lastly, we would like to thank Emmanuel Gustin for allowing us to adopt, as a basis for the weapon DB, the ballistic data published in "the wwII fighter gun debate" website
http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/fgun-in.html

Bruno and Abraxa


<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>


Message Edited on 10/23/0301:07AM by Abraxa

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 11:59 PM
Interesting.........I'll have to check it out. Every bit helps../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:01 AM
Very cool. It's great for all of us that people like you put the effort into these things. Thanks.



"Official Lancaster Whiner"

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:09 AM
That is about the coolest use for Excel I have ever seen.
Ingenious!

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:38 AM
aye much appriated/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 01:35 AM
mikeyg007 wrote:
- That is about the coolest use for Excel I have ever
- seen.
- Ingenious!
-
-

Agreed, toying with it as we speak.

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:06 AM
Brillent! Some of you guys amaze me.

zomby_woof
10-23-2003, 03:41 AM
Thank you very much for you hard work and for passing it our way.

I also didn't know that Ms Excel could do that.

Very impressive.

zw


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Flying online as Sky^King

Message Edited on 10/22/0310:43PM by zomby_woof

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:49 AM
Thats helpful, and some outstanding Excel work, my friend.



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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:32 AM
Thanks for the time and effort you put into this, looks pretty cool.

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:54 AM
Thank you!

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 09:06 AM
Cool!

Thanks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 09:08 AM
Very nice; it sheds some interesting light on weapon performance.

Thank you two for putting it together and sharing it.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 10:31 AM
Too cool!

Im involved with an article called Excel @ maths on the http://NRICH.maths.org website and this one is just soooo much better than enything we produce.



Cpt-Madcowz
Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 10:43 AM
Darn!

Now I have to install Office at home /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif !!

Brilliant! I doff my hat to you guys (or S!).

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 10:53 AM
Excellent idea by abraxa, and this is the only guy that i know who is able to down 4 yak3 set on ace with his 109!!!!

Davide

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 11:00 AM
Ty Minded /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif but I have to correct you on both points. There are a lot of 109 pilots here that can do that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , and I think that Bruno deserves the greatest part of the awards for the SC. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Anyway, ty all really for appreciating. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 01:25 PM
A very interesting, and scientific approach to studying how to achieve optimal firing solutions. S!

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 01:47 PM
Thanks for the info !! Very useful for me !

Brazil Salutt !!!

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 02:20 PM
Hi, Abraxa

Thanks, for your work and times which share for us.

your work help me alot.


and I found one interesting link from your website

The Shooting Guide (german only) by Adolf Galland, General der Jagdflieger 1944 : http://rafiger.de/Homepage/Pages/Schiessfibel.html

this history document was translate to english ?



S!

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:19 PM
S! to Bruno and Abraxa- nice contribution- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif S!

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:02 PM
S! S! S! S! S!



Thanks a lot guys !

...my italian was very lousy LOL

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:17 PM
This is fantastic!

12th IAP "Guards"

http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/12th_iap_home_page.htm

RHAF 5/I Fighter Group
http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/rhaf.htm

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:25 PM
Linked to the German speaking community./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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Stan Laurel



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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:49 PM
Very Nice! Thx!

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Flying online as Kuervo++

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:00 PM
Abraxa, i left you a post in your CWOS thread, but i'l copy and paste the relevant part in here as well.


""Abraxa, since you post much more over the UBI forums, i will send you a small message there, in case you don't read it here, on how to solve the time comsuption problem.

First and foremost, you need a 3D modeler.
Gibbage is probably up to his neck in work, but you have at least 10 other modelers inside the community that can help you, who are equaly as good, and since my idea doesn't require heavy skills in 3D moddeling, anyone who volunteers (or you recruit) will be able to carry this project very fast, and very efficiently.

The second step is the models themselfs.
There is no need for heavy polys or details. 200 to 500 polys should be more than enough for the purpose.
The models however, have to be in realistic dimensions. Realistic, as in the proper porportions from each others.
An alpha mask in the model's cockpit would be good, but not entirely necessary.

The finalizing should just need a basic render, and a dumbed up stock skin from IL-2.

After that, you would have a fully scalable model, that you and Bruno can work with.

The wireframe you boys used, is worked around a simple 3D model, so it should be only a matter of exchanging the data.

Think about it seriously, the little app is efficient, and undoubthly usefull for many pilots.

Its surely the best option, beetween database knowledge (the web, books), and a more hands-on approach, to practice what one learns.""

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 09:44 PM
I have tried to use your excellant program,however,when I try to access it though MS Works,which contains Excel,I get an error message that says the file is either password proteceted or encrypted. Any advice on how to make it work? Thanks.

<center>http://geocities.com/maxenthor/109G6_2.txt

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 10:57 PM
Resev, ty very much for your tips. I will discuss with Bruno. If there will be an opportunity to develop the SC in the interesting direction you suggested, be sure we will be happy to cooperate with other user more skilled than we are in (even simple) 3D models. What comes out here is simply the fruit of common interests, friendship, and the pleasure to exchange infos with other users of this community.

Maxenthor. Sorry, I don't have an answer to your question. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Simply the SC has no problems with my Office/Excel. The passworded part is just the one linked to calculations. This is not to hide something, no need at all, but just to avoid casual and unvoluntary messing of the utility. Hope that someone here can be more helpful than I can. Let me know if the problem persists.
I know there are some freeware version of Excel. Maybe someone can post the links.

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 10:57 PM
maxenthor wrote:
- I have tried to use your excellant
- program,however,when I try to access it though MS
- Works,which contains Excel,I get an error message
- that says the file is either password proteceted or
- encrypted. Any advice on how to make it work?
- Thanks.
-

Maybe too old excel Version . In Excel 9.0 it works for me.

Not sure how far it is downwards compatible special the drawing routines.


Regards ,

Hyperion

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 11:24 PM
Yuri_Stupchet, would you please read this thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=ywzcm

Your signature size is almost 1 MB! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Please don't steal the time and money of modem users.

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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 11:52 PM
Hallo again Bruno & Abraxa,

Now that I used it, I am impressed !!!!!!


Maybe one sugestion to your future versions: Include the full canopy drawing as an option.

I was not aware the MK108 of the Bf109 needed so much lead. This means that you need to keep the enemy plane well below the visual area if you are pulling the trigger at distances beyond 300meters...

~S~

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 12:19 AM
Manos1 wrote:
-
- I was not aware the MK108 of the Bf109 needed so
- much lead. This means that you need to keep the
- enemy plane well below the visual area if you are
- pulling the trigger at distances beyond 300meters...
-
- ~S~
-
-

exactly! Mk108 requires a lot of "correction". See the difference using it or the NS37, with its higher muzzle shell velocity /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>


Message Edited on 10/24/0301:27AM by Abraxa

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 12:26 AM
HeY thanks!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 12:42 AM
maxenthor wrote:
- I have tried to use your excellant
- program,however,when I try to access it though MS
- Works,which contains Excel,I get an error message
- that says the file is either password proteceted or
- encrypted. Any advice on how to make it work?
- Thanks.



I'l give you more than a simple advise, i'l give you links for full freeware office aplications that will take care of your problems once and for all.
With these, you can even throw MSworks in the trashcan.


EasyOffice with PDF Filter 5.9.
This office suite is compatible with PDF, MS-Word and Excel files. The word processor supports RTF, DOC, HTML and PDF files.
You also get the EasySpeaker, an English voice reader.

http://www.tucows.com/preview/198735.html (76.2Mb)



OpenOffice.org 1.1.0.
This is one of the most important independant office suites around.
Not only is freeware, but its also Open Source, wich means that you can add content (plugins) made by yourself, or others, among the OpenOffice.org community.

http://www.tucows.com/preview/258596.html (63.5Mb)



602PC SUITE 4.0.
This one has been around for a long time.
Its very good and very complete, but its not entirely freeware anymore, or so i understand it.
The older versions were unlimited for personal use, but now i'm not so sure on this version.
According to they'r website, this only has a 30 day trial, but since its marked as freeware on Tucows, its worth downloading to see if this situation still stands.

http://www.tucows.com/preview/198728.html (21.5Mb)



Any of these programs will suit your need.

Enjoy, your welcome.

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 04:04 AM
Thank you. I will download these programs. Much appreciated.

<center>http://geocities.com/maxenthor/109G6_2.txt

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 11:31 AM
Impressive, really impressive. Grazie 1000!!

dux-1
10-24-2003, 02:50 PM
Grazie Abraxa... Fantastico!!

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 03:13 PM
Ragazzi, siete dei GRANDI!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Grazie mille per condividere con noi il vostro lavoro e complimenti per l'idea e la realizzazione!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

>Translation for non italian speakers' sake /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <
Boys, you're great!
Thanks a lot for sharing your work with us and congratulations for the idea and the way you made it!



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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 06:08 PM
plumps,
thx for bringing that to my attention...I will correct it, bro...

12th IAP "Guards"

http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/12th_iap_home_page.htm

RHAF 5/I Fighter Group
http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/rhaf.htm

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XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 06:10 PM
new sig test

12th IAP "Guards"

http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/12th_iap_home_page.htm

RHAF 5/I Fighter Group
http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/rhaf.htm

http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/12iapmedal.jpg


Message Edited on 10/24/0305:15PM by Yuri_Stupchet

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 11:54 AM
Well I got the same problem here with "passwd protection" and sh*t. I do not use Office package at all, I use EXCEL and other viewers which are for free. In Excel viewer I can open the file but once I click Sniper.. It crashes. Since I use Open Office I tried to open it from there only to end with "passwd protection" meassage...

Looks great anyways http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 01:16 PM
Xitter wrote:
- Well I got the same problem here with "passwd
- protection" and sh*t. I do not use Office package at
- all, I use EXCEL and other viewers which are for
- free. In Excel viewer I can open the file but once I
- click Sniper.. It crashes. Since I use Open Office I
- tried to open it from there only to end with "passwd
- protection" meassage...
-
- Looks great anyways /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-

I'm sorry Xitter /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I'll try to understand which is the problem. You can try downloading one of the progs linked above by Resev. Let me know if the problem persists.
Again, ty all /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 12:52 AM
I have tried all three of the programs that have been suggested and none of them work. Most say that it is pass word protected and will not load.

<center>http://geocities.com/maxenthor/109G6_2.txt

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 02:47 AM
Looked at the M$ Office site...there is a "free trial" version of Office that I suppose would work for this Excel app... but it costs 7.95 for shipping!
Of course we could buy a full version of Office for 400$./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:27 AM
maxenthor wrote:
- I have tried all three of the programs that have
- been suggested and none of them work. Most say that
- it is pass word protected and will not load.



-
I'm sorry, I'll try to work on it and will contact you if I find a solution.
Cheers

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>


Message Edited on 10/26/0311:28AM by Abraxa

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 04:46 PM
Please keep us posted, Abraxa...I, as well as others are not running the latest versions of M$ Office/Excel...and can't seem to open this great looking utility.
I have done a bit of looking through the MacroShaft sites, they are selling a "Excel Reader" for a 100$ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 05:46 PM
Don't worry, we will surely try to manage it for you asap /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 10:49 AM
What would be nice is expanding the database, and incorporating more than 2 guns.. in correct locations for 'shooter', and adjustable in 'pairs' or as 'cannon/Mg' for convergence.

Then you'd be able to 'see' the advantages of more guns, and similar (but not identical ballistic performances). And the problems of Lo velocity cannon mixed with Mgs

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:31 PM
Hi Rata, ty for your suggestions. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif A global approch to the simultaneous use of different weapons would be useful and not impossible to do but I'm not sure I understand you rightly.The problem in combinig several couples of guns with different muzzle shell velocities would be the determination of the position of the target, in relation to the different kind of guns. Let's say the "faster" gun hits the nose while the slower on hits the tail (very optimistically /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ). HOw do you locate the target? It's more a problem of muzzle shells velocity than a problem of convergence. If I din't get you correctly, please explain again your idea.

For all having issues with Excel, hold on! We're working it out /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 10:57 PM
Hmmm.
A bias slider? eg 100% for the slower shells, 0 for the flatter/faster guns, user adjustable to examine effects of aim position?
The average for the pattern?
Most powerful weapons?

Spitfire for example may have lower lethality than Hurri, due to increased dispersion of weapons. However it is probably easier to hit with as they spray more..

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 02:32 AM
WOW...looks like I'll be installing Excel!

cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


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http://members.optusnet.com.au/~tonybirchill/race.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 01:06 PM
As I am not a specialist and do not know the different guns on my plane by heart, I had difficulties to use the tool.

Example: One Bf109 version has 2x13mm and a 20mm or 15mm in the nose (somewhere I read in the IL2 database 151/15, I thought it was 151/20...). It took me time to find it and then it was very difficult to switch between the two in order to estimate impact difference.

Maybe it would be nice to have
1. One empty & unprotected sheet available so we can write notes :-)

2. A database with planes & gun loads
- either separately on a different sheet
- or as selection in the main tool
I understand the later could be very complicated if you take the different weapon loadouts of each model's variation.


Anyway, the file is GREAT!, it helped a lot, many thanks !

Manos




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www.hellenic-sqn.gr (http://www.hellenic-sqn.gr)

- Special Thanks to CrazyIvan1970, Wildhoney, Hunter82 and so many others for their contribution to the IL2FB community
- Special Thanks to Ubi for listening
- Special Thanks to Oleg Maddox for this great game

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 01:50 PM
i downloaded the program, but theres nothing in the folder. how do you use it?

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 10:06 PM
bump

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 11:00 PM
How about biasing the centre of fire based on RoF and Weapon Power. ie moving the average aim point towards weapons with high RoF and Hitting power, away from weapons with low RoF and low Hitting Power.

And/Or:
Using highest RoF weapons (best chance of hits)
Using highest Weapon Power (best chance of kill if hit)

This could be selected using a three position list.. similar to "where to shoot at"