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Farlander1991
06-07-2015, 09:09 PM
Continuation of my series of threads.

Beat Sequence 3 of ACB so far.

ACB is so much better than AC2, overall. It does pretty much everything AC2 does... only better. Yeah, the combat is still easy as hell, but at least it's not sluggish. And yes, there's OP stuff available for buying (like the crossbow, which is all the advantages of throwing knives and pistol without any disadvantages, but I'm not buying it in my playthrough), but at least it's optional.

But the main things that made and still makes ACB good, is the overall connected experience. It's very important especially in open-world games I think. ACB has pretty much the same type of side quests as AC2 does, in terms of overall gameplay style (though, I must say, I find Romulus Lairs to be much more varied and interesting collectively than Assassin Tombs from AC2), but they're all connected. In AC2 you rebuild Monterrigioni because it's home and it's ****ty to live in, do contracts because Lorenzo is an ally, go through tombs because there just happens to be a secret armor hidden downstairs, beat up people because... uh.... and go around with mail, because that's what you did when you worked for your father and it doing those menial tasks for random people brings back old fuzzy memories and makes you feel like he's still with you and alive. In ACB almost everything (it's alright to have some not entirely connected things, IMO) is connected to one goal: Liberation of Rome from Borgia oppression. Even the 'find pieces to unlock armor' is connected to that, as those pieces are hidden in lairs of people who terrorize the city and work for the Borgia, and completing those lairs not just provides you with keys, but helps you to destroy that cult and make peoples' lives better.

This connectivity is very important, because when you go around in the open world and see that there's a side quest near you (especially when you've already 100%-ed the game once) the willingness to complete it depends on the overall experience of the game. I find myself completing more side quests in ACB than I did in AC2 because of this.

Also, I must say, I didn't get to the part with active interaction with Cesare (so I didn't relive the moments of him constantly yelling 'guards'), but I must say, the way he is set-up in the first 3 sequences is pretty awesome. I mean, the first time we see him in Monterrigioni, 'consider this an invitation from my family to yours?' That's freakin' badass. And then when we get to Rome, basically the whole environment and side-quest system is based on how bad-*** he is.

And MD in ACB is much more enjoyable than AC2, where it was practically non-existent.

And Rome itself I find it more appealing than any AC2 city. Though filters still kinda suck. Especially when there's transition between districts, it's like, 'woah, everything suddenly changed'.

So, yeah, I'm really enjoying ACB. Let's see how it goes when I get my OP Brotherhood and don't care about optional objectives at all :D (I do believe optional objectives were created because of how OP 'press X to win' button' the Brotherhood is)

Shahkulu101
06-07-2015, 09:30 PM
Yep, I always say ACB is pretty much a much improved AC2 - with meaningful, contextual side quests you actually want to complete. I love it, I go back to replay AC games rather often and the experience is always so-so due to familiarity but ACB is always fun. It's just a really well made, polished and tidy open world game. Story aside, there are no real chinks in the armor. I can totally understand why Eurogamer gave it a 10/10, even if I wouldn't be quite so generous.

Farlander1991
06-07-2015, 10:35 PM
I wouldn't really call the story a 'chink' really... Like, ok, I haven't replayed everything and I might need to be freshened up on stuff, but after playing the first 3 sequences what I can say is that the story is... adequate. Like, AC4 tells a beautiful story and you kinda get intrigued from the get go thanks to the very beginning and Edward's flashbacks (the difference between what he was saying and where he is) and how he gets caught up in all the stuff, so in my book it's certainly much better in comparison to ACB, but ACB story is normal. It does what it does to connect the experience while telling a coherent story, and that's not bad.

EmptyCrustacean
06-07-2015, 10:44 PM
To me Brotherhood is to AC2 what Arkham City is to Asylum - it just takes everything the first one does and makes it bigger, more epic and ambitious in every possible way. It's such a cohesive, well made game and introduced three of the biggest features that has become a staple of the franchise - mission contraints, area liberation and Brotherhood/nomad/Kenway's fleet missions.

SixKeys
06-08-2015, 02:49 AM
http://i.imgur.com/myPcGK9.gif

VestigialLlama4
06-08-2015, 04:58 AM
Saying BROTHERHOOD has better side missions than AC2 is ignoring the fact that BROTHERHOOD is entirely side missions and nothing else. It has a very slight main story. It's an upjumped story DLC. In AC2, the side missions are side-missions, they are not too big or grand to distract you from the main story. Whereas in Brotherhood, the story is the distraction for the side missions (there is no way Brotherhood is a satisfying game if you ignore the side missions and play the story itself).

The game is very systemic and integrated and cohesive and in that respects its a successful and satisfying game, i.e. if you measure a game's quality entirely on how the systems are integrated rather than say if the game is entirely about the systems and through that lets you discover and build a story. I like the Brotherhood recruits, the Teverina Hideout (the only Hideout in all AC games that makes total strategic and aesthetic sense).


In AC2 you rebuild Monterrigioni because it's home and it's ****ty to live in, do contracts because Lorenzo is an ally, go through tombs because there just happens to be a secret armor hidden downstairs,

That's not true, the Monteriggioni hideout is ancestral property of the Auditore (who Ezio discovers are all Assassins) and Ezio's ancestor Domenico brought Atlair's relics from the Holy Land to Italy. All the tombs and architecture across Italy, constructed during the Renaissance with Assassin assistance comemorates a famous Assassin and metaphorically it makes sense since the Renaissance was partially influenced by Italian trade with the Arab world and a lot of Renaissance architecture borrowed ideas from Arabian Architecture, so the Tombs make aeshtetic and logical sense, it also works on the greater focus on architecture and it justifies the influence and means by which Assassins are shaping and preserving culture.

In Brotherhood its entirely arcade. Okay the Romulus Lairs are a hoax created by the Borgia to drive people to the Church, but why does a real hoax of false cultists pivot around actual Roman Armor and Dagger with actual keys scattered in different tombs. If the Borgia know about the Dagger and Armor, why do they let a bunch of crazed cultists guard it rather than you know send in their best guys to get it out. (See, Altair's keys in Revelations where the Templars are actually conducting archeological digs around Istanbul). It's not coherent at all and yes its connected and integrated to fighting the Borgia but storywise it's like "Okay there are a bunch of cultists of false pagans but see these false pagans come across actual pagan relics...and Romulus is somehow connected to the Assassination of Julius Caesar...because reasons."

I like Tomb levels as much as any but the logic for Romulus is pretty bad. Even Captain Kidd Letters made sense, it rested on a simple coicidence (the guy who knows all about Captain Kidd just happens to hang out on the docks below Connor's property) whereas here the Romulus rests on a convoluted coincidence.


Also, I must say, I didn't get to the part with active interaction with Cesare (so I didn't relive the moments of him constantly yelling 'guards'), but I must say, the way he is set-up in the first 3 sequences is pretty awesome. I mean, the first time we see him in Monterrigioni, 'consider this an invitation from my family to yours?' That's freakin' badass. And then when we get to Rome, basically the whole environment and side-quest system is based on how bad-*** he is.

That's not badass. Robert de Sable is pretty badass (and remained one when you actually fought him) and the opening of Brotherhood echoes Sable attacking Masyaf with Siege Engines, Al Mualim was also badass with his very sneaky strategy to get rid of Sable. Cesare wasn't as impressive. He had a mole on the inside of Ezio's organization, he's also pure melodrama, "I am a badass because I am killing your family relative...MWAH HAH HAH".


So, yeah, I'm really enjoying ACB. Let's see how it goes when I get my OP Brotherhood and don't care about optional objectives at all :D (I do believe optional objectives were created because of how OP 'press X to win' button' the Brotherhood is)

Well good luck because I tried replaying it and going contrary to full-synch and there are some missions (like the one in The Banker at the Pantheon, hands down my favorite moment in Brotherhood) that allow you to invent. But well, assassinating Juan Borgia is a good case, its actually possible to try and go ahead of the path and get into a position at top of the building overlooking the party and you are in position to Double Assassinate Rodrigo and Cesare, and furthermore you can try and get in a position to Air Assassinate Juan Borgia before he kills that prostitute, but then the game quickly desynchronizes.

shobhit7777777
06-08-2015, 10:16 AM
Just started playing ACB again. I don't care much about the tombs, collection stuff and the narrative....I do love the fact that you're essentially an urban guerrilla running an insurgency and the narrative supports it well enough

You're a high level Assassin and your job is free Rome. Waging a covert war feels like a classic Assassin mission.

I like games which give me broad level goals that suit the gameplay and then leave me to it.

It makes everything compelling. Like Farlander said, everything ties in together. It increases immersion. Its why I feel ACS's narrative may be interesting. Clear, solid goals....let me go about achieving them.

luckyto
06-08-2015, 09:25 PM
ACB had the best integration of side missions to the main story of any AC game. You are right - it's the gold standard.

That said, it had a really weak story. And Rome is tidy and monotonous compared AC2 and AC1's environments. So I still choose AC2.

LoyalACFan
06-09-2015, 08:36 AM
Farlander, you impress me again. I love a good ACB debate :p


ACB is so much better than AC2, overall. It does pretty much everything AC2 does... only better. Yeah, the combat is still easy as hell, but at least it's not sluggish. And yes, there's OP stuff available for buying (like the crossbow, which is all the advantages of throwing knives and pistol without any disadvantages, but I'm not buying it in my playthrough), but at least it's optional.

AC2's combat totally sucked, so besting it is no major accomplishment, lol. That said, while ACB's combat looked and flowed a hell of a lot better than its predecessor's, it's almost physically impossible to die. When you get down too low in health, enemies stop attacking until you regenerate a bit. And that's pretty much as broken as a game's combat can get.


In ACB almost everything (it's alright to have some not entirely connected things, IMO) is connected to one goal: Liberation of Rome from Borgia oppression.

And that, to me, made it more of a slog. IMO side content should be a bit of a break or distraction from the main meat of the game, not an extension of it. Of course, it still needs to be thematically relevant and make sense for the character (I'm not suggesting there should have been a dance-off minigame or anything) but I think it's totally fine, and in fact preferable, to have side content that stands completely alone from the main missions. Literally everything in ACB ties into taking down Cesare, making it look like Ezio spent every waking hour of his life between 1500 and 1503 wrecking the Borgia's lives.

The Assassin in Training missions in ACRev were actually awesome in this regard, and honestly would have made more sense in ACB since Ezio was the local Mentor instead of just a visitor. They were a little bit of a break from the Sofia/Masyaf story, but made total sense as something that an Assassin Mentor would be spending his time doing. I was actually OK with AC2's off-the-wall side missions because of this as well; yeah, they had absolutely nothing to do with the main sequences, but they absolutely made sense for that character. Ezio had a major knight-in-shining-armor complex, so of course he helps the ladies in distress when their husbands are unfaithful. He was a showman and a braggart, so of course he took up the thieves on their challenges for races. He had an industrious nature and a thirst for the finer things in life, so he'd be totally fine with being grossly overpaid to carry a few letters to their destinations. These missions could and should have been more varied, of course, but I didn't find anything inherently wrong with them. If we want to talk about side missions that just make no sense whatsoever, let's discuss Connor's pick-pocketing and assassination contracts.


Also, I must say, I didn't get to the part with active interaction with Cesare (so I didn't relive the moments of him constantly yelling 'guards'), but I must say, the way he is set-up in the first 3 sequences is pretty awesome. I mean, the first time we see him in Monterrigioni, 'consider this an invitation from my family to yours?' That's freakin' badass. And then when we get to Rome, basically the whole environment and side-quest system is based on how bad-*** he is.

Which is part of why the story disappointed so much in the end. The first few sequences pumped Cesare up into being this uber Templar badass, sort of an inverse Ezio if you will, who was the greatest threat we'd seen thus far in the franchise. But then, in the climax, you realize that he's been totally oblivious to the fact that his entire power base has collapsed right under his nose, even though the Assassins were operating as an open freaking street gang in Rome tearing his army apart for three solid years. It made him look completely toothless and comically inept; after the Villa assault in the very beginning, Cesare was never an actual threat again. He was just playing the Elmer Fudd to Ezio's Bugs Bunny.

Rodrigo in AC2 was so much cooler than his son was in the sequel because you never new quite what his endgame was. There was always an element of mystery and danger about him, and he demonstrated some professional respect for Ezio's accomplishments while still being supremely confident in his plans. Contrast that with Cesare, who pretty much dismisses the Assassins as a threat (despite OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary) and acts like a petulant child when they score victories on him.

And I have to say, while both AC2's and ACB's final boss fights sucked, I was really disappointed with Cesare as a fighter. I never expected to actually fight Rodrigo mano-a-mano (and TBH it was pretty silly that they tried to make a 60-year-old morbidly obese man a physical match for Ezio in his twenties, but I digress) but from Cesare, I was expecting something a little grander than kicking him in the nuts a bunch of times to break his defense and then hacking away at him. Especially since they teased that fight in the opening moments of the game as some sort of grand battle royale. It was a cool mission, but a bad final fight.

I could go on a lot longer about the general suckiness of Cesare, but I won't :p


And MD in ACB is much more enjoyable than AC2, where it was practically non-existent.

This part we can agree on. In hindsight, ACB was the game that got me most interested in the MD lore overall. Wound up disappointed eventually, but it was fun while it lasted.


And Rome itself I find it more appealing than any AC2 city. Though filters still kinda suck. Especially when there's transition between districts, it's like, 'woah, everything suddenly changed'.

This one's purely subjective, but I detested Rome. The Centro district was cool with its Baroque glow and rose petal rain, but the other 3/4 of the map just bored the hell out of me. Too much open space, and those janky cliffside obstacles looked really unnatural and immersion-breaking IMO. Not to mention those ugly and conveniently impassable "forests" in the south. Being able to traverse realistically-uneven terrain was easilly the biggest mechanical improvement of AC3 IMO.


So, yeah, I'm really enjoying ACB. Let's see how it goes when I get my OP Brotherhood and don't care about optional objectives at all :D (I do believe optional objectives were created because of how OP 'press X to win' button' the Brotherhood is)

I actually liked the Brotherhood move. Yeah it was super OP, but you were basically God in ACB anyway so it didn't bother me much; it's not like it was cheating me out of a good challenge. I just went with the Rule of Cool on it. Signaling my Assassin disciples to rain arrows from the sky = cool, so whatever.

Farlander1991
06-09-2015, 06:34 PM
Farlander, you impress me again. I love a good ACB debate :p

I'm not sure how I impress you :p


AC2's combat totally sucked, so besting it is no major accomplishment, lol. That said, while ACB's combat looked and flowed a hell of a lot better than its predecessor's, it's almost physically impossible to die. When you get down too low in health, enemies stop attacking until you regenerate a bit. And that's pretty much as broken as a game's combat can get.

It's not possible to die in AC2 either, but at least when you have to battle with enemies you're not bored to death.

Don't get me wrong. I think Kill Streaks are one of the most broken things ever (and that's not the only broken thing that ACB introduces, other things are, for example, crossbow and poison darts), but you know what, there are cases when I can live with that.


[/quote]And that, to me, made it more of a slog. IMO side content should be a bit of a break or distraction from the main meat of the game, not an extension of it. Of course, it still needs to be thematically relevant and make sense for the character (I'm not suggesting there should have been a dance-off minigame or anything) but I think it's totally fine, and in fact preferable, to have side content that stands completely alone from the main missions. [/quote]

I'm not saying every game should be like this, and of course unrelated side content can also be good (one of the things that I really liked in AC3/AC4 are the board games which don't have to do with anything), but I'm just comparing my replay-throughs of AC2 and ACB, and in AC2 I didn't really bother with side-missions much (heck, I didn't finish the game my last playthrough because by Seq14 I kinda got sick of the main ones, I have a thread for AC2 as well with more detail on that), but with ACB I find completing side missions more compelling, and the connective experience is, I think, one of the reasons why.

(also, on a side note, my favourite AC which is AC4, also connects everything together with one thing - money, and it works really well narrative-wise, thematically, and as a gameplay experience)


The Assassin in Training missions in ACRev were actually awesome in this regard, and honestly would have made more sense in ACB since Ezio was the local Mentor instead of just a visitor. They were a little bit of a break from the Sofia/Masyaf story, but made total sense as something that an Assassin Mentor would be spending his time doing. I was actually OK with AC2's off-the-wall side missions because of this as well; yeah, they had absolutely nothing to do with the main sequences, but they absolutely made sense for that character. Ezio had a major knight-in-shining-armor complex, so of course he helps the ladies in distress when their husbands are unfaithful. He was a showman and a braggart, so of course he took up the thieves on their challenges for races. He had an industrious nature and a thirst for the finer things in life, so he'd be totally fine with being grossly overpaid to carry a few letters to their destinations. These missions could and should have been more varied, of course, but I didn't find anything inherently wrong with them. If we want to talk about side missions that just make no sense whatsoever, let's discuss Connor's pick-pocketing and assassination contracts.

I don't think Connor pick-pocketing and assassination contracts make any sense, but I also don't think that beat-up missions and courier ones from AC2 make more sense than those :p




Which is part of why the story disappointed so much in the end. The first few sequences pumped Cesare up into being this uber Templar badass, sort of an inverse Ezio if you will, who was the greatest threat we'd seen thus far in the franchise. But then, in the climax, you realize that he's been totally oblivious to the fact that his entire power base has collapsed right under his nose, even though the Assassins were operating as an open freaking street gang in Rome tearing his army apart for three solid years

Yeah, I guess, but I didn't get to that part yet in my replaythrough so I'm not gonna comment on it until I freshen up things in my memory :p



I actually liked the Brotherhood move. Yeah it was super OP, but you were basically God in ACB anyway so it didn't bother me much; it's not like it was cheating me out of a good challenge. I just went with the Rule of Cool on it. Signaling my Assassin disciples to rain arrows from the sky = cool, so whatever.

My most precious memory of the first playthrough of ACB is connected to the Brotherhood mechanic - when we were infiltrating Castel Sant'angelo for the 2nd time and as I was climbing up the fortifications and the walls of the building I'd just tell my Assassins to take care of whoever would notice me, it felt amazing. But it's still the most OP thing ever and the main reasons Optional Objectives exists :p I don't have a confirmation for that, but, seriously, if it weren't for Brotherhood there'd be no need to somehow nudge the players to use something else. But I still didn't get to it yet.

SixKeys
06-09-2015, 09:14 PM
And that, to me, made it more of a slog. IMO side content should be a bit of a break or distraction from the main meat of the game, not an extension of it. Of course, it still needs to be thematically relevant and make sense for the character (I'm not suggesting there should have been a dance-off minigame or anything) but I think it's totally fine, and in fact preferable, to have side content that stands completely alone from the main missions. Literally everything in ACB ties into taking down Cesare, making it look like Ezio spent every waking hour of his life between 1500 and 1503 wrecking the Borgia's lives.

Not technically true. The Cristina missions and Templar agents missions (where you killed multiplayer characters) weren't tied to the Borgia. There was also the fight club in Bartolomeo's basement, although it was quite boring and easy to forget it even existed. Having three (or two, if you ignore the fight club) side missions that aren't directly tied into the hero's main quest is an acceptable number. It means Ezio was still looking out for the citizens of Rome, but his focus is clearly on the Borgias. One of my biggest problems with open-world games is just how pointless most side quests seem. "Oh Chosen One, go fetch me some herbs guarded by giant killer spiders so that I can make some wine." Uhh....not exactly a priority for me, random stranger I just met. I like the more focused, driven Ezio in ACB more than the 20-something Ezio who delivered letters, raced against thieves and beat up random people for no good reason. It was like, "this is nice and all, but what am I getting out of this? Why am I wasting time doing these frivolous tasks when my mother's been raped and my father and brothers have been murdered?". I love ACB's side content precisely because even though not all content may be of equal quality, all of it makes sense in the grand scheme.


The Assassin in Training missions in ACRev were actually awesome in this regard, and honestly would have made more sense in ACB since Ezio was the local Mentor instead of just a visitor. They were a little bit of a break from the Sofia/Masyaf story, but made total sense as something that an Assassin Mentor would be spending his time doing.

I know I'm in the minority, but I actually never cared for the recruit missions in ACR. As you say, they would have made more sense in the context of ACB, and I never felt any more attached to my recruits. I actually prefer the recruits in ACB because I was free to invent a personality for them on my own.


I actually liked the Brotherhood move. Yeah it was super OP, but you were basically God in ACB anyway so it didn't bother me much; it's not like it was cheating me out of a good challenge. I just went with the Rule of Cool on it. Signaling my Assassin disciples to rain arrows from the sky = cool, so whatever.

You criticize the combat for being too easy and praise the brotherhood system for being OP. 'Kay. :rolleyes:

I saw the brotherhood move and combat as pretty much one and the same. Both were OP, both were Rule of Cool and both were equally fun. ACB's combat is still the most satisfying to me in the entire series. The only thing it needed were a few tougher archetypes and the ability to, y'know, actually die. But the fluidity was totally exhilarating and I loved switching weapons on the fly to see what kind of combo moves Ezio would pull off.

It's weird that AC4 devs made a big deal out of Edward being a dual-wielder when it had zero effect in the gameplay (you could only use swords or guns, not both at the same time). They already did dual-wielding in ACB's combat and it was entertaining as hell. You could use a sword/crossbow combo, dagger/throwing knives, sword/hidden gun, etc.

Farlander1991
06-09-2015, 09:29 PM
(you could only use swords or guns, not both at the same time)

Not true, AC4 and ACB are pretty much the same in this regard. The combos you're talking about from ACB are essentially the main weapon/tool combo in AC3/AC4.

So if in ACB you press button to attack and hold it to use a gun/crossbow/throw knife, in AC4 it's just two buttons (depending on your selected things).
Then there's the kill streak combinations, if you kill 2 people and hold the button when going to the third, the character will kill two people using the selected ranged weapon. Well, it's the same with AC4 ranged tools (except blowdart I think) - only you hold the tool button.

So there's really no difference there.

Here are some AC3 examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiM10uVFlKU

Farlander1991
06-09-2015, 09:40 PM
My first real disappointment with ACB. I started the first Sequence 4 main mission, where we need to get into Castel Sant'angelo.

So I start the mission, there's a bridge with people going on it, my first instinct (especially after playing so much of ACU where I used the crowd any chance I had) is to get into the crowd, cross the bridge that way and find an entrance into the Castello.

So I blend with some monks, they for some reason decide to turn around back on the middle of the bridge, but I swiftly go into another crowd on the way back that actually goes through the whole bridge, and go near the castello walls trying to find an opening... and then I pass the restricted area. I'm thinking maybe there's a way to climb the Castello here? But nope, there is not (or maybe there is, but the desynch walls don't let me to get to that point). So I get with the crowd back into the restricted area, look if there's something I maybe missed, but nope, everything is correct, because there's one particular specific opening set by the designers, and you don't even need to use the crowd to get there (it's a hole in the fences near the shore), and that's the only way to get into the area.

:(

SixKeys
06-09-2015, 09:43 PM
Not true, AC4 and ACB are pretty much the same in this regard. The combos you're talking about from ACB are essentially the main weapon/tool combo in AC3/AC4.

So if in ACB you press button to attack and hold it to use a gun/crossbow/throw knife, in AC4 it's just two buttons (depending on your selected things).
Then there's the kill streak combinations, if you kill 2 people and hold the button when going to the third, the character will kill two people using the selected ranged weapon. Well, it's the same with AC4 ranged tools (except blowdart I think) - only you hold the tool button.

So there's really no difference there.


In AC4 you can only use swords and guns in combat (unless you pick up a heavy weapon), so your options are limited. Well, you can use a blowdart but it's not a good idea at close range. There are the cinematic combo scenes you mentioned but for some reason they're harder to pull off in AC4 than in AC3.

In ACB you have a choice of sword, gun, crossbow, knives, heavy weapon or spear. This automatically means more varied kill animations. In AC3 they just used Connor's tomahawk animations for knife fights, which looked stupid. In AC4 there were no knives at all, apart from the single throwing knife you could keep in your inventory. I don't think it was possible to use a sword/throwing knife or sword/gun combo in AC4.



So I blend with some monks, they for some reason decide to turn around back on the middle of the bridge, but I swiftly go into another crowd on the way back that actually goes through the whole bridge, and go near the castello walls trying to find an opening... and then I pass the restricted area. I'm thinking maybe there's a way to climb the Castello here? But nope, there is not (or maybe there is, but the desynch walls don't let me to get to that point). So I get with the crowd back into the restricted area, look if there's something I maybe missed, but nope, everything is correct, because there's one particular specific opening set by the designers, and you don't even need to use the crowd to get there (it's a hole in the fences near the shore), and that's the only way to get into the area.
:(

I know there's another way in (at the edge of the Vaticano district), but it's probably only available after sequence 4 due to story reasons. (Since the gates aren't open on that side until you open them for Caterina.)

Farlander1991
06-09-2015, 09:59 PM
In ACB you have a choice of sword, gun, crossbow, knives, heavy weapon or spear.

Ok, well, in ACB you can have only a sword/gun combination and a knife/throwing knives. Crossbow are a separate weapon with no combo, and heavy weapons (unless you disarm) replace the main one (being the sword). So it's not like you can easily combine all of them. If we count AC4, there's: swords, heavy weapons, rifles (as main) and pistols and rope darts used as tools (and can be used in combos). Also hidden blades, both pistols and rope darts can be comboed with them. In AC3 you can also use trip mines in combat, though I don't remember if it's just for tool counters or for double kills with them.


I don't think it was possible to use a sword/throwing knife or sword/gun combo in AC4.

Not sure about sword/throwing knife, but sword/gun combo in AC4 is pretty much the default combo you have as these would be the ones you use the most.


I know there's another way in (at the edge of the Vaticano district), but it's probably only available after sequence 4 due to story reasons. (Since the gates aren't open on that side until you open them for Caterina.)

Probably, the gates that in the future we go through are closed.

SixKeys
06-09-2015, 11:01 PM
Ok, well, in ACB you can have only a sword/gun combination and a knife/throwing knives. Crossbow are a separate weapon with no combo, and heavy weapons (unless you disarm) replace the main one (being the sword). So it's not like you can easily combine all of them. If we count AC4, there's: swords, heavy weapons, rifles (as main) and pistols and rope darts used as tools (and can be used in combos). Also hidden blades, both pistols and rope darts can be comboed with them. In AC3 you can also use trip mines in combat, though I don't remember if it's just for tool counters or for double kills with them.

Actually I'm pretty sure the sword/crossbow or dagger/crossbow combo is possible. Too lazy to go back and check though.

Either way, my point was that in the marketing speeches around AC4's release they acted like dual-wielding was something totally new, but they had already done it three games ago and the combos were much easier to pull off in ACB.


Probably, the gates that in the future we go through are closed.

Not that I didn't take your word for it, but I had such a strong feeling that I once managed to get into an off-limits area of the castle before I was supposed to that I had to fire up the game and check (just for fun). I played around with every angle for a good while and I must say, the playtesters must have done a good job because I found it impossible to break the game at this point. ;) I even tried the very edges on both sides, thinking maybe you could clip through something and end up one level higher, but nope. Later on the layout changes somewhat, I'm almost positive about that. In this mission there are spikes all over the walls that aren't there in later missions.

Farlander1991
06-09-2015, 11:18 PM
Actually I'm pretty sure the sword/crossbow or dagger/crossbow combo is possible.

I think it's possible in ACR where they have two wheels (one for tools which crossbow is a part of IIRC and one for main weapons), but in ACB combos are just part of a weapon (in ACB pistols are part of swords and throwing knives are part of knives, which is how they worked in AC1 as well btw).

You can counter with a crossbow which is why I think it was used as a main weapon.

SixKeys
06-09-2015, 11:24 PM
You may be right. I can't remember how exactly ACR's weapon wheel works.

I definitely had some trouble getting used to the old controls again. Some things work on muscle memory, but I kept accidentally turning on Eagle Vision and launching myself off of buildings. :p

I also remembered one of my pet peeves with ACB (I think it's also present in AC2): when you lock on to an enemy who's near another one, sometimes the game will switch your target on its own. It used to get me in trouble when for example I meant to take out a guard who was walking behind his mate and accidentally ended up assassinating the guy in front. I'm glad lock-on in general is gone now.

Farlander1991
09-06-2015, 08:18 PM
A bit of a thread revival, I've continued my replaythrough of the AC games, and, well, pretty much done with Brotherhood.

One thing that I want to say about Cesare, is that up to Sequence 8, he was painted quite menacingly, in the tidbits that we see him at (starting with a bad-*** introduction). Side missions also help, as they're centered a lot around Cesare's influence as a huge power, you get the sense that he's not a guy to mess with and has his fingers everywhere. Sequence 8, though.... while it would make sense that Cesare who lost everything would get in a somewhat, how to put it, freaked out mode, Sequence 8 is our first continuous (and more direct) interaction with him, so outside of the Monteriggioni sequence, we don't really get to feel the menacing Cesare on ourselves. Doesn't help that in the talk with the Pope he's painted as this person who doesn't know what's been going on. So I wouldn't say that he's an awful villain, just that we didn't really see the stages inbetween the 'badass' Cesare and 'downtrotten' Cesare.

Also, the mission with the chest in the Banker mission is awful. I don't know which one is worse, it, or the Paul Revere one, but they're both ****ing annoying. And there are some others not that good missions in ACB (or missions with weird restrictions), but overall the mission quality is pretty high.

Other than that, I don't really have much to say about ACB other than what I haven't already said. It's AC2+, an upgraded version of almost everything AC2 does. Ezio is more of a static character in this game, there's transformation of him into a leader of the Assassin Order throughout the game (both narratively-wise and gameplay-wise), sure, but he doesn't really have a character arc unlike AC2 and ACR.

So yeah, overall ACB is pretty great.

So, so far, if I'm to rate how much I like the games in a WTF-Don't Like-It's Fine-Really Like-OMFG!!! system (basically a fancy five-star system :p ), the replayed games go as follow:
AC1 - 4 stars - Really Like
AC2 - 3 stars - It's Fine
ACB - 4 stars - Really Like

ACR is next. Now that I think about it, ACR is the first AC game that I didn't have 100% completion for, so going to be interesting to try to remember why exactly.

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2015, 09:42 PM
ACR is next. Now that I think about it, ACR is the first AC game that I didn't have 100% completion for, so going to be interesting to try to remember why exactly.

Don't do that to yourself.

Kaschra
09-06-2015, 10:03 PM
I'm replaying the games myself right now too, and I also agree - ACB is just better than AC2.
I used to like AC2 a lot - not so much anymore after the recent playthrough.



Don't do that to yourself.

How about you don't tell people what to do

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2015, 10:08 PM
How about you don't tell people what to do

Um, it was a JOKE. I don't like Revelations - it's like saying "Save yourself!". It wasn't literal. I know Farlander is perfectly entitled to give that game a bash.

Kaschra
09-06-2015, 10:14 PM
Um, it was a JOKE. I don't like Revelations - it's like saying "Save yourself!". It wasn't literal. I know Farlander is perfectly entitled to give that game a bash.
Seeing how much you hate ACR, I doubt it was a joke.

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2015, 10:43 PM
Seeing how much you hate ACR, I doubt it was a joke.

Whatever. I wouldn't need to lie to prove anything to YOU. A person who idolises Shay (stupid and butthurt) and Edward (amoral) lol

Kaschra
09-06-2015, 10:57 PM
Whatever. I wouldn't need to lie to prove anything to YOU. A person who idolises Shay (stupid and butthurt) and Edward (amoral) lol

And, as I should have expected, you exploded yet again.
Also nice, so you go straight to personal attacks and try to insult me. Poorly so, I must say too.
Not sure if you are aware of this, but liking a character does not mean idolising a character.

Work on these anger management issues of yours. Seriously. You always blow up like this.

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2015, 11:03 PM
]And, as I should have expected[/B], you exploded yet again.
Also nice, so you go straight to personal attacks and try to insult me. Poorly so, I must say too.
Not sure if you are aware of this, but liking a character does not mean idolising a character.

Work on these anger management issues of yours. Seriously. You always blow up like this.

Oh, please. This is exactly what you wanted. You obviously have a bone to pick with me (for some reason) and so you did the classic thing of locating offense in things that is not intended to offend in order to have a confrontation with someone you don't like. It's childish.

You started by accusing me of being bossy and then when I said it was a joke you implied I was a liar. The only person attacking here is you. If you have an issue with me put it in a PM. Don't hijack threads in order to insult me.

I only get angered by ignorance...

Farlander1991
09-06-2015, 11:10 PM
Don't do that to yourself.

Nah, I actually quite enjoy Revelations overall. At least I had when I last played it. Now Liberation HD... now that's a game that I haven't even finished once, so trying to play it again when I get to it will be a real pain for me :p

Kaschra
09-06-2015, 11:17 PM
Oh, please. This is exactly what you wanted. You obviously have a bone to pick with me (for some reason) and so you did the classic thing of locating offense in things that is not intended to offend in order to have a confrontation with someone you don't like. It's childish.

You started by accusing me of being bossy and then when I said it was a joke you implied I was a liar. The only person attacking here is you. If you have an issue with me put it in a PM. Don't hijack threads in order to insult me.

I only get angered by ignorance...

Childish? Well, I wasn't the one who instantly got to personal attacks and tried to use someone's favourite characters to insult them, was I?

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2015, 11:30 PM
Childish? Well, I wasn't the one who instantly got to personal attacks and tried to use someone's favourite characters to insult them, was I?

Um, yes you did instantly get to personal attacks. In fact, you actually started it for no apparent reason.
I'm bored now. You're actually sending me to sleep - and it's not just because it's almost midnight in London. zzzzz

EmptyCrustacean
09-06-2015, 11:32 PM
Nah, I actually quite enjoy Revelations overall. At least I had when I last played it. Now Liberation HD... now that's a game that I haven't even finished once, so trying to play it again when I get to it will be a real pain for me :p

Liberation is the only game I think I didn't actually complete everything. I did all the mission objectives (Wasn't exaclty hard) but the world was so dull that getting the collectibles became a drag and I just couldn't take it anymore.

Kaschra
09-06-2015, 11:38 PM
Um, yes you did instantly get to personal attacks. In fact, you actually started it for no apparent reason.
I'm bored now. You're actually sending me to sleep - and it's not just because it's almost midnight in London. zzzzz

So apparently doubting something is considered a personal attack now... lol
Yeah, keep telling yourself that :o

EmptyCrustacean
09-07-2015, 12:04 AM
So apparently doubting something is considered a personal attack now... lol
Yeah, keep telling yourself that :o

Implying someone is a liar with the sole intention of starting an argument is.
This has to be the lamest attempt I've seen on this forum to wind someone up. zzzzzzzzzzz

Kaschra
09-07-2015, 12:10 AM
Implying someone is a liar with the sole intention of starting an argument is.
This has to be the lamest attempt I've seen on this forum to wind someone up. zzzzzzzzzzz
You're implying that was my intention, even though it was not.
But you won't believe me anyway lol

EmptyCrustacean
09-07-2015, 12:23 AM
You're implying that was my intention, even though it was not.
But you won't believe me anyway lol

OK. Let's play. What did you hope to achieve by saying that you doubt I was joking with Farlander? Go on, I'm dying to hear it. XD

You even said, "as I should have expected", "you always blow up like this" so if you know I'm prone to reacting this way why would you try to doubt my intentions? And it's even more telling by the fact that the moment I called you out on your nonsense you instantly started talking about my so-called 'anger issues'.

Locopells
09-07-2015, 12:24 AM
Ahem...

EmbodyingSeven5
09-07-2015, 01:50 AM
Ahem...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/dd/dde01a7a92aa19b4972b4fb097b332686e4ba1f0771b47994b 0f28c71f175383.jpg

Locopells
09-07-2015, 02:39 AM
Well, if you want me to start banging heads together...

Farlander1991
09-07-2015, 10:21 AM
On topic, one of the things I forgot to mention about ACB is the renovations. AC2 handles renovations a lot better I think, there is significant change in the atmosphere of Monteriggioni and the act feels a lot more rewarding.

Sure, in ACB there's things like changing music, what people talk about or do, a bit of lighting... but overall it's all fairly subtle and not really memorable or noticeable. Now, Monteriggioni was a lot smaller, so purely from production stand-point it would be difficult to do to Rome what AC2 did to Monteriggioni, but the villa is much more rewarding. Also, buying monuments is like... pointless and weird.

Alphacos007
09-07-2015, 10:37 AM
Wasn't buying monuments used for the Project Legacy thing? So now that it doesn't exist anymore, the monuments shouldn't make sense I guess. I agree that upgrading the villa was much better though, it actually felt like an acoomplishment, and you just said.

SixKeys
09-07-2015, 11:41 AM
Wasn't buying monuments used for the Project Legacy thing? So now that it doesn't exist anymore, the monuments shouldn't make sense I guess. I agree that upgrading the villa was much better though, it actually felt like an acoomplishment, and you just said.

Gee, it's almost like tying a companion app to the main game cheapens the experience! :rolleyes:

One thimg that made the Villa more rewarding, apart from having more dramatic changes, is that I felt more personally responsible for the people living there. It felt great to restore watch towers or open a well because it meant really improving the community. In Rome we're told the people are suffering but in a big city you feel no personal attachment whatsoever, except maybe on Isola Tiberina.

ze_topazio
09-07-2015, 11:46 AM
Rome looks better without the renovations, the renovations bring this ugly color filters that ruin the look of the city.

Farlander1991
09-07-2015, 12:00 PM
Rome looks better without the renovations, the renovations bring this ugly color filters that ruin the look of the city.

Haven't really noticed, to be honest (but then again, I didn't renovate the whole city this time). My biggest problem with filters in Rome is how the change is very noticeable between the districts, like in 5 second the filter just changes, bam! But that's about it. And when it comes to filters... nothing beats AC2 Venice filters in terms how damp and colorless does it make the environments. If I remember correctly, ACB in its Venice Cristina mission changes that filter quite significantly.

Sorrosyss
09-07-2015, 01:00 PM
ACB remains my favourite entry of the franchise, so am pleased to see some love for it. I really enjoyed the building up of the Brotherhood, and think it was handled far better than in ACR. Side missions felt relevant, and the proportion of First Civ and Modern day, and the way they were integrated was really well done. It was also the best combat system of them all in my view - yes, it was easy, but for an Assassin of Ezio's skill it should be. It was fun above all else. :)

I know a lot of people don't like Cesare or Lucrezia, but they were very memorable characters. I replayed Unity only a matter of months ago, and I barely remember any of the villains' names. I think perhaps our villains have lost their way somewhat, in my view. Hopefully with Jeffrey writing Syndicate, as he did ACB, we will see a return to some more memorable characters.

Farlander1991
09-07-2015, 01:24 PM
and I barely remember any of the villains' names.

Truth be told, ACB has the same issue and I've completed it over the last weekend. I mean, who other villains are? It's the Banker (do we even hear his name in the game?), the French guy, and Michiletto that I remember only because his name is the freshest due to Cesare yelling that Micheletto will bring his armies - but he's also a person I totally forgot existed by the time I replayed ACB (at least I remembered the Banker and the French guy before). I wouldn't call the ACB Templar posse particularly interesting or memorable, but at the same time they serve the overall experience, so can't really complain either.

ze_topazio
09-07-2015, 01:35 PM
The Banker was Juan Borgia, I quite like him, not only his assassination is one of the most memorable, I also like his motives: "While you Assassins and Templars are wasting your lives with this absurd war I was actually enjoying life and I regret nothing", he actually makes a lot of sense.

I also liked the French Baron, liked as in I pitied him, the untalented minor noble who never accomplished anything, but thanks to the way he was raised was desperate to gain some prestige to make his father proud, and despite his evil shenanigans he never intended to harm the hostage, he actually felt like a human.

Shahkulu101
09-07-2015, 01:54 PM
The Banker was Juan Borgia, I quite like him, not only his assassination is one of the most memorable, I also like his motives: "While you Assassins and Templars are wasting your lives with this absurd war I was actually enjoying life and I regret nothing", he actually makes a lot of sense.

I also liked the French Baron, liked as in I pitied him, the untalented minor noble who never accomplished anything, but thanks to the way he was raised was desperate to gain some prestige to make his father proud, and despite his evil shenanigans he never intended to harm the hostage, he actually felt like a human.

Wow, I never thought about the Baron De Valois like that.

Whole different perspective.

SixKeys
09-07-2015, 02:16 PM
I think ACB's villains were memorable because they were such broad caricatures. This is just something that popped into my head: if you wanted to over-analyze, one could potentially read the central villains as the 7 deadly sins:

Lucrezia = lust
Juan Borgia = gluttony/greed
The Pope = sloth (as he basically does nothing in the entire game),
Baron de Valois = envy
Micheletto = pride
Cesare = wrath

The last two could be swapped and it still works IMO. I dunno if it was intentional but Yohalem does like to play with hidden meanings in his stories. :)

ACZanius
09-07-2015, 02:40 PM
Fuark yeah son, Assassin's Creed Brotherhood is GOAT, never had so much fun and was immersed in AC like in that game, so many feels, best AC ever made pinnacle, the combat was so smooth, fluid, sexy, polished and felt so perfect, especially the animations. The modern day was also GOAT, ACB modern day + AC3 modern day and i'm happy with that kind of style. Rome was absolutely gorgeous and felt so alive, so many options, throwing knifes, poison darts even cross bow, i like to have **** ton of options. The side missions were epic, tombs and last but not least MY FAVORITE MISSION TYPE of all AC, EXOTIC MISSIONS in Brotherhood, literally perfect since we went in other places of Italy, missed those missions like heaven in later games like ACR.

EmbodyingSeven5
09-08-2015, 10:50 PM
Well, if you want me to start banging heads together...

Love you Loco (:

Locopells
09-09-2015, 12:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE1VYqaRNXg

Senningiri_GR
09-09-2015, 02:38 PM
Please as we are talking here about Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, can someone get to the game and give me pictures of the maps of Valnerina (Flying Machine 2.0) and the ones of The Da Vinci Disappearance for the Map Comparisons of the game. The outcome will be posted here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1248842-Assassin-s-Creed-Map-Comparisons

Farlander1991
09-09-2015, 05:05 PM
Here's Valnerina.
http://s8.postimg.org/bkhuyuqn9/2015_09_09_00001.jpg

Belriguardo from the DLC though doesn't have a map, sadly :(

Senningiri_GR
09-09-2015, 06:55 PM
Here's Valnerina.
http://s8.postimg.org/bkhuyuqn9/2015_09_09_00001.jpg

Belriguardo from the DLC though doesn't have a map, sadly :(

Thanks a lot mate. This helps a lot as I could not find it anywhere else. ;)

I thought Belriguardo had a map...

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1248842-Assassin-s-Creed-Map-Comparisons/page3

Farlander1991
09-13-2015, 05:07 PM
So I was playing ACB multiplayer today. I didn't actually get to play it when it was very active back on release, because 'searching for Abstergo agents' :p For some reason from my network when I was in Canada it never wanted to connect at all (though it did work for both ACR and AC3 multiplayer), so I never actually played ACB multiplayer at its peak, and had some matches since then, and today had a bit more matches.

While I think the multiplayer is great, can I just say how I hate that the priority of assassination is higher than that of a stun? In one of the matches I was in the lead for 6 minutes, until I got killed a bunch of times because when I was stunning a player who was obviously my hunter, they pressed assassinate at the same time and killed me. Like, in ACR and AC3 (and I guess AC4, though I haven't really played that one's multiplayer yet) it leads to contested kills, which I also don't really like for those reasons (although that's better than nothing)

I don't know, it just seems to me that if a person knows that you're his target and tries to stun you, then the hunter has essentially failed. But if you don't have a skill like smoke bomb (which I haven't unlocked yet), then it's very dangerous to try and stun targets.

Jessigirl2013
09-14-2015, 06:26 PM
Continuation of my series of threads.

Beat Sequence 3 of ACB so far.

ACB is so much better than AC2, overall. It does pretty much everything AC2 does... only better. Yeah, the combat is still easy as hell, but at least it's not sluggish. And yes, there's OP stuff available for buying (like the crossbow, which is all the advantages of throwing knives and pistol without any disadvantages, but I'm not buying it in my playthrough), but at least it's optional.

But the main things that made and still makes ACB good, is the overall connected experience. It's very important especially in open-world games I think. ACB has pretty much the same type of side quests as AC2 does, in terms of overall gameplay style (though, I must say, I find Romulus Lairs to be much more varied and interesting collectively than Assassin Tombs from AC2), but they're all connected. In AC2 you rebuild Monterrigioni because it's home and it's ****ty to live in, do contracts because Lorenzo is an ally, go through tombs because there just happens to be a secret armor hidden downstairs, beat up people because... uh.... and go around with mail, because that's what you did when you worked for your father and it doing those menial tasks for random people brings back old fuzzy memories and makes you feel like he's still with you and alive. In ACB almost everything (it's alright to have some not entirely connected things, IMO) is connected to one goal: Liberation of Rome from Borgia oppression. Even the 'find pieces to unlock armor' is connected to that, as those pieces are hidden in lairs of people who terrorize the city and work for the Borgia, and completing those lairs not just provides you with keys, but helps you to destroy that cult and make peoples' lives better.

This connectivity is very important, because when you go around in the open world and see that there's a side quest near you (especially when you've already 100%-ed the game once) the willingness to complete it depends on the overall experience of the game. I find myself completing more side quests in ACB than I did in AC2 because of this.

Also, I must say, I didn't get to the part with active interaction with Cesare (so I didn't relive the moments of him constantly yelling 'guards'), but I must say, the way he is set-up in the first 3 sequences is pretty awesome. I mean, the first time we see him in Monterrigioni, 'consider this an invitation from my family to yours?' That's freakin' badass. And then when we get to Rome, basically the whole environment and side-quest system is based on how bad-*** he is.

And MD in ACB is much more enjoyable than AC2, where it was practically non-existent.

And Rome itself I find it more appealing than any AC2 city. Though filters still kinda suck. Especially when there's transition between districts, it's like, 'woah, everything suddenly changed'.

So, yeah, I'm really enjoying ACB. Let's see how it goes when I get my OP Brotherhood and don't care about optional objectives at all :D (I do believe optional objectives were created because of how OP 'press X to win' button' the Brotherhood is)

I don't know ;)
I still prefer ACII over ACBH.
But it mainly to do with the amazing character development they did with Ezio in ACII.;)

duncanr2n
09-17-2015, 04:14 PM
It's funny, for a long time I kinda disliked ACB. I think I was sad that it only focused on Rome and that we didn't get to travel around like in AC1 & 2 and visit different cities that each had their own feel. I felt like it was just recycling Italian architecture and wasn't really adding to the whole experience. I replayed it last year (actually replayed everything last year), and my second time through it was a whole different experience. It's been interesting to read your opinions on it as they echo many of my thoughts as well.

For whatever reason, the most recent playthrough with ACB kinda clicked with me and I had a whole new experience with it. When it comes to the Ezio games I'm still partial to ACRev (even though 100% that game was extremely brutal), but I no longer look at ACB as the 'fillter' game that I used to.