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View Full Version : ----------- POLL - Should CANADA Be Added ---------------



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GunnyBunny001
03-05-2004, 02:44 PM

GunnyBunny001
03-05-2004, 02:44 PM

BaldieJr
03-05-2004, 02:50 PM
Canadians are totally getting short-changed.

Playability of this game just went NILL for me. I don't think I can stand to look at the stupid anti-canadian icon on my desktop.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

I'm calling the thought police as soon as I find my tinfoil hat. It looks like this WAR on OPPRESSION is going to be a long one folks.

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JG52_wunsch
03-05-2004, 02:51 PM
hi
i don t think we need a patch,we just need some
one to make the folder w/ the different sqaudron
markings,then we can add it manualy.i don t know how,but willing to help anyone who does,cheers

DrDave242
03-05-2004, 02:51 PM
What I'm curious about is the "No Opinion" option. If I have no opinion on the subject...why would I answer the poll?

---
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.

HL callsign: FruitPieJones
Today is a good day for pie.

tsisqua
03-05-2004, 02:52 PM
I understand that people around the world tend to lump you guys up North with us down here, and I also think it unfair. Absolutely, you should have your own markings. However, if that doesn't come about there are many talented Canuks that can provide skins and a folder for you . . . Bottom line: yes, I agree that you are too often overlooked. Canada has been there in wartime in the worst of it.

Tsisqua

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-nedChristie.jpg
Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi

JG52_wunsch
03-05-2004, 02:53 PM
heheh,you might not have an opinon but some did

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-05-2004, 02:57 PM
Canadians should be added, as with many other countries.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/JaVAPlatypus-1java.JPG (http://www.1java.org)

Oso2323
03-05-2004, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Canadians are totally getting short-changed.

Playability of this game just went NILL for me. I don't think I can stand to look at the stupid anti-canadian icon on my desktop.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

4th largest Allied airforce in WW2 - that puts us behind the Brits, USA and USSR - and ahead of the French, Belgians, Poles, Czechs, etc, etc... I think the phrase is "Forgotten Battles."

Arms1
03-05-2004, 04:35 PM
i myself would love to see canadians added, i really don't understand why baldie responded the way he did, there is no mention of this game being "anti canadian", just a simple poll asking if people would like to see the rcaf represented; simple enough?

T4T-TheProf
03-05-2004, 04:39 PM
Yes I agree Arms1, It would be nice to have RCAF Squadrons, but we'll get by just fine until then. Makes us sound like we have some sort of a inferiority complex.

p1ngu666
03-05-2004, 04:40 PM
i think if u submit markings to oleg he could add them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Zatorski
03-05-2004, 05:02 PM
a RCAF skin pack for the Hurri's and Spits would be fine for me, I'm sure they will be available, I don't mind selecting United Kingdom and selecting a skin with the RCAF roundels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/2/24/Mosquito.inflight.250pix.jpg

Mitlov47
03-05-2004, 05:11 PM
It makes sense to me. This game's name is "Forgotten Battles." It highlights the stuff that most people DON'T know about WWII--stuff besides Pearl Harbor, Utah and Omaha Beaches, etc.

Canada is certainly "forgotten" from the common view of WWII. I think RCAF skins would be an excellent edition. If we can have the French Air Force and the Hungarian Air Force, we can certainly have the Canadian Air Force.

---------------------------

"I hear the roar of a big machine; Two worlds and in between.
Love lost, fire at will; Dum-dum bullets and shoot to kill.
I hear dive bombers and Empire down, Empire down..."
--Sisters of Mercy

Overwhelming odds mean nothing compared to heroism and tenacity. Fly blue and white: Finnish Brewster Model 239 and Israeli BF-109.

lkemling
03-05-2004, 05:19 PM
Canada Rocks....absolutly would love to fly a a Spitfire sporting the mapleleaf!!!!

MandMs
03-05-2004, 05:29 PM
The RCAF, as well as other AFs flying under RAF control, used the same national markings as the RAF units. There was NO seperate RCAF roundels.

When picking RAF, if you want RCAF you pic the correct squadron. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif The squadron has to on the pick list though.


M&Ms
I eat the red ones last.

Zayets
03-05-2004, 05:30 PM
I would like to see Australia and New Zealand in the drop down menu.Is that hard to do?

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

Arms1
03-05-2004, 05:42 PM
yes MandMs we absoloutley understand that, it is the letter codes and squadron insignia that we are interested about , i guess we should include all commonwealth countries zayets saaf also, but lets not get ot here the poll was should canada be included.
ps. if i had an iota of artistic ability i would be working on a 401 skin right now but i don't so i can't help out

SeaFireLIV
03-05-2004, 05:43 PM
Hmmm, slight problem here.... Kinda seems unfair catering to ONE country. Shouldn`t ALL countries involved be included?

oops, didn`t see Arms1 response. Still a valid point anyway.

Arms1
03-05-2004, 05:46 PM
how is this catering to one country? lol were playing tag now, i'll get by without canadian content, it's ok really, just would like to see my nation represented

Maple_Tiger
03-05-2004, 05:57 PM
When i go into the QMB i get disapointed some times because i dont see my country listed.


Did you know that the RCAF was the first to engage the Luftwaffle..

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pd6c878f0006c224805da6c9645408b41/fb291d3e.jpg

Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

Menthol_moose
03-05-2004, 05:57 PM
Yes... and other commonwealth countries too please !!!!



Eh, mates! What's the good word?

Aimosika
03-05-2004, 06:06 PM
No, never heard of Canada anyway. Add Uzbekiztan!

MandMs
03-05-2004, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arms1:
yes MandMs we absoloutley understand that, it is the letter codes and squadron insignia that we are interested about , i guess we should include all commonwealth countries zayets saaf also, but lets not get ot here the poll was should canada be included.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was mainly in reply to Zatorski who wanted RCAF roundels, for which there was none. What you did not understand is that RCAF and other nationalities would be listed in the squadrons for the RAF. This is what should be added, not a seperate listing for RCAF, or any other country that fought under colors of the RAF.

The poll should be asking for more squadrons in the RAF squadron options, as well as for other AFs. The USAAF only has a few sqaudrons listed, for example.

What is so hard about adding YO*F(Mk V, BM372), which had no other markings in Paint Shop? In fact most, or almost all, RCAF squadrons did not carry squadron insignia or the small Maple Leaf on their a/c. A quick look at some pics and profiles shows this. Europian units in the RAF did carry unit badges.


M&Ms
I eat the red ones last.

jensenpark
03-05-2004, 06:33 PM
A BIG FAT YES!

(And yes, I know I'm yelling)

4th largest airforce, 3rd largest navy, and the best hockey team and beer.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

MandMs
03-05-2004, 06:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
A BIG FAT YES!

(And yes, I know I'm yelling)

4th largest airforce, 3rd largest navy, and the best hockey team and beer.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would not call those 130 or so 'corks' a navy.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They did do a relatively good job escorting 'slow' convoys with the 2cd rate equipement they had for sub hunting. The Brits would not give them better stuff. DEs escorted the 'fast' convoys.

Jenson http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/canada/ww2/

322 ships


M&Ms
I eat the red ones last.

[This message was edited by MandMs on Fri March 05 2004 at 05:48 PM.]

Zatorski
03-05-2004, 08:22 PM
MandMs,
you are right about the RCAF roundels, but, its whether or not you eat your Smarties' red one's last.

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/2/24/Mosquito.inflight.250pix.jpg

Arms1
03-05-2004, 08:48 PM
hmmmmm, MandMs, can't seem to find rcaf letter codes in this game, do you have a different version than i? get off of your soap box and just answer the question, would you like to see rcaf squadrons in this game? a yes or a no is sufficient

Capt_Kernel
03-05-2004, 08:51 PM
Where? At the corner pub? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
When i go into the QMB i get disapointed some times because i dont see my country listed.


Did you know that the RCAF was the first to engage the Luftwaffle..

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid78/pd6c878f0006c224805da6c9645408b41/fb291d3e.jpg

Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/jsmuz/Manston.jpg

GunnyBunny001
03-06-2004, 04:22 AM
To help provide a quantum of the RCAFs input during WW2 here are the squadrons that served overseas:

http://www.rcaf.com/1939_1945_waryears/squadrons/overseas/index.htm

Here are the RCAF squadrons that were home based:

http://www.rcaf.com/1939_1945_waryears/squadrons/home/index.htm

I think the quantum of these units gives an overwhelming "Agree" to the POLL question http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by GunnyBunny001 on Sat March 06 2004 at 03:39 AM.]

[This message was edited by GunnyBunny001 on Sat March 06 2004 at 03:40 AM.]

MandMs
03-06-2004, 05:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arms1:
hmmmmm, MandMs, can't seem to find rcaf letter codes in this game, do you have a different version than i? get off of your soap box and just answer the question, would you like to see rcaf squadrons in this game? a yes or a no is sufficient<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why don't you re-read the poll question, for it would seem that you did not understand what was asked. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif Hope this is not normal for you in real life &gt; mis-reading poll questions

"A PATCH FOR AEP SHOULD BE CREATED TO ADD CANADA "ROYAL CANADIAN AIR FORCE" AS A SEPARATE SELECTION ON THE MENU AND PLANES WITH THE CORRECT COLOUR MARKINGS."

Dahhhh, it asks for a SEPERATE SELECTION ON THE MENU. So to answer, the poll question, NO.

What I would like is more squadrons added to the AF's unit option picks and this is not what the poll question asks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif So add the 600 odd squadrons of the RAF to the list. Don't forget the numerous Flights as well.

Further, the correct unit codes are applied when picking a unit from the units listed. So what are these "CORRECT COLOUR MARKINGS"? The RCAF followed RAF marking practices. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

The poll question is just plain and simply, DUMB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif


M&Ms
I eat the red ones last.

Tully__
03-06-2004, 05:06 AM
If Canada get their own markings, so should Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and a number of other non-European participants.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/Corsair.jpg (http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm)

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)

Salut
Tully

Extreme_One
03-06-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
If Canada get their own markings, so should Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and a number of other non-European participants.

=================================================


http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm

_IL2 Forums Moderator_
http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm

Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

GunnyBunny001
03-06-2004, 06:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
Dahhhh, it asks for a _SEPERATE SELECTION ON THE MENU_. So to answer, the poll question, _NO_.

What I would like is more squadrons added to the AF's unit option picks and this is _not_ what the poll question asks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif So add the 600 odd squadrons of the RAF to the list. Don't forget the numerous Flights as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously, your not Canadian, you simply do not grasp the larger picture.

AF = Air Force if we were to use your logic every country should go under AF.

Canada's Air Force is called Royal CANADIAN Air Force or RCAF.

In other words, Canada is not the AF or the RAF it is it's own separate entity, Canada was a sovereign nation during World War 2. We fought as Canadians, not as British.

It is an insult to Canadians to lump us all in together. Canada could have multiple squadrons listed under the heading CANADA with many different types of planes.

If we were to use MandMs logic, why don't we lump the USAF under RAF ? They are both AF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think the response from the POLL speaks for itself, over 65% of voters believe that Canada deserves to be recognized as a country with it's own Squadrons and correct plane markings.

Again, I reiterate Canada had the fourth largest Air Force by the end of World War 2 !!

Cordially,

GB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MandMs
03-06-2004, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
Dahhhh, it asks for a _SEPERATE SELECTION ON THE MENU_. So to answer, the poll question, _NO_.

What I would like is more squadrons added to the AF's unit option picks and this is _not_ what the poll question asks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif So add the 600 odd squadrons of the RAF to the list. Don't forget the numerous Flights as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously, your not Canadian, you simply do not grasp the larger picture.

AF = Air Force if we were to use your logic every country should go under AF.

Canada's Air Force is called Royal CANADIAN Air Force or RCAF.

In other words, Canada is not the AF or the RAF it is it's own separate entity, Canada was a sovereign nation during World War 2. We fought as Canadians, not as British.

It is an insult to Canadians to lump us all in together. Canada could have multiple squadrons listed under the heading CANADA with many different types of planes.

If we were to use MandMs logic, why don't we lump the USAF under RAF ? They are both AF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think the response from the POLL speaks for itself, over 65% of voters believe that Canada deserves to be recognized as a country with it's own Squadrons and correct plane markings.

Again, I reiterate Canada had the fourth largest Air Force by the end of World War 2 !!

Cordially,

GB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you win the 10 mil 6/49? I'll take that money thank you very much, eh.

Why do you want to complicate an already complicated code. Cdns fought under the control of the Brits and as such should be listed in their squadron list, just as some other countries are. If the a/c carried that blue roundel with the red circle it should be listed in the UK squadron choices listing.

Since when are Cdns better than any other? Rather snotty of you, putting other peoples down like the Poles, Czechs, Ozzies, Kiwis, etc. Canadians flew the same a/c that the RAF did.

Why would you do that, since a different national insignia was used?

If you read the posts correctly, you will see that people want to be able to pick squadrons, not have the RCAF listed sepeately, which is what your so dumbly worded poll asked. Ah, the roundel with the Maple Leaf in the middle was not used in WW2. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Whoopy do dah. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif The CATP also trained over 130,000 aircrew.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


M&Ms
I eat the red ones last.

DONB3397
03-06-2004, 07:57 AM
Can't we fix this in FMB? If I understand the question, we need an RCAF folder, some skins and, perhaps, specific missions. All we have to do is add a new folder (RCAF) to the Single Missions folder. I've done this several times for groups of missions dealing with a specific area or time period.

Canadians were major players in both the air and ground war in Europe.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCax_RABQv__LZQo
There is no 'way' of winning;
There is only Winning!

Extreme_One
03-06-2004, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
Can't we fix this in FMB? If I understand the question, we need an RCAF folder, some skins and, perhaps, specific missions. All we have to do is add a new folder (RCAF) to the Single Missions folder. I've done this several times for groups of missions dealing with a specific area or time period.

Canadians were major players in both the air and ground war in Europe.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCax_RABQv__LZQo
There is no 'way' of winning;
There is only Winning!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't be done - the 12 nationalities that FB will recognise (so far) don't include Canada

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

tomaz99
03-06-2004, 08:06 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, the maple leaf 'roundel' was never used during the Second World War. All Canadian planes flew with British-style roundels. The Canadians had their national chain of command. No.6 Bomber Group was distinctly a Canadian entity but again did NOT use maple leafs in the roundels etc. I don't know what the fuss is about, I fly a Mustang with Canadian maple leafs when I'm goofing around online. That skin is available at the IL site. What is the issue that some custom skins can't solve?

tsisqua
03-06-2004, 08:17 AM
[QUOTE]
It was mainly in reply to Zatorski who wanted RCAF roundels, for which there was _none_. What you did not understand is that RCAF and other nationalities would be listed in the squadrons for the RAF. This is what should be added, _not a seperate_ listing for RCAF, or any other country that fought under colors of the RAF.


[QUOTE]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was told once that the Brits still think that they are the rulers of the English-speaking world, and only tolerate us. I never believed that until now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-nedChristie.jpg
Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi

Heuristic_ALgor
03-06-2004, 08:22 AM
yes

Please include some #400 Overseas Squadrons please http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.rcaf.com/1939_1945_waryears/squadrons/overseas/index.htm

443 "City of New Westminster" Squadron
Hornet

OUR STING IS DEATH

Battle Honours

Fortress Europe 1944, France and Germany 1944-45, Normandy 1944 Arnheim Rhine

The Badge

Its Badge, a hornet affronte, as this unit was known as the Hornet Squadron





No. 443 'Hornet' Squadron was a Day Fighter squadron that flew Spitfires.

Representative Aircraft Spitfire VB (February 1944 - April 1944)
Spitfire IXC (April 1944 - February 1945)
Spitfire XVI (January 1945 - January 1946)
Spitfire XIVE (January 1946 - April 1946)

[This message was edited by Heuristic_ALgor on Sat March 06 2004 at 07:33 AM.]

jensenpark
03-06-2004, 08:46 AM
Mandms...are you trying to take Baldie's crown as biggest ashat out here?

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

VW-IceFire
03-06-2004, 08:48 AM
I disagree and I'll tell you exactly why. Canadian overseas squadrons were all 400 series RAF squadrons. They were integrated, like the other commonwealth squadrons serving in Britian, into the RAF command structure. Correct markings would be as easy as having a small Canadian mapleleaf just under the cockpit for Spitfire (and I think Typhoon squadrons). So they should be part of the RAF...no RCAF squadron served with strictly Canadian markings in the European Theater of Operations as far as I know.

I was under the impression that all of the Canadian squadrons were supposed to be in AEP. I know on Netwings someone had researched all of these for Oleg (the Typhoon, the Spitfire, all of them) with correct lettering (special squadron markings on RAF fighters was VERY rare) and they were supposed to be in the pack. Could someone please confirm?

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

MandMs
03-06-2004, 09:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
Mandms...are you trying to take Baldie's crown as biggest ashat out here?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jenson, I am not against adding Squadrons 400 to 445 to the UK squadron list as this where they should go. The poll question does not ask for Cdn squadrons in the listing. It is a dumb and stupid poll.


M&Ms
I eat the red ones last.

Oso2323
03-06-2004, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Canadian overseas squadrons were all 400 series RAF squadrons. They were integrated, like the other commonwealth squadrons serving in Britian, into the RAF command structure. Correct markings would be as easy as having a small Canadian mapleleaf just under the cockpit for Spitfire (and I think Typhoon squadrons<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd be happy just to get the squadrons themselves - I don't care what they're listed under (Well, maybe the United States would hurt just a bit :-) ).

BTW, did anyone notice that when the new 300-series RAF polish squadrons are chosen, the voice pack changes to Polish? Nice Touch! Can such a thing be done for we Canucks? Who knows? But I bet that no one will do it for us - we'll have to organize it.

As for the research into RAF squadrons: it was being done by Rufus Anderson (aka Owl). He was working for Oleg. Here's the Netwingslink:

http://www.netwings.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2741&forum=DCForumID18

GunnyBunny001
03-06-2004, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I disagree and I'll tell you exactly why. Canadian overseas squadrons were all 400 series RAF squadrons. They were integrated, like the other commonwealth squadrons serving in Britian, into the RAF command structure. Correct markings would be as easy as having a small Canadian mapleleaf just under the cockpit for Spitfire (and I think Typhoon squadrons). So they should be part of the RAF...no RCAF squadron served with strictly Canadian markings in the European Theater of Operations as far as I know.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Ice,

Your information about markings is simply incorrect. Here are some webpages that do a decent job about the graphics placed on Canadian planes:

http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/ferguson.html

Many Canadian squadrons had their own distinctive markings, just like RAF or USAF would do.

Perhaps, there is a book or webpage with the various RCAF squadron markings/insignia.

Why don't we start a listing here on this thread of each Canadian Squadrons Insignia. I am going to go to the Ottawa Air Museum today and see if they have anything available.

I will start us off:

421 Squadron did carry the "Red Indian" insignia; which was taken from the McColl-Frontenac oil company. Allegedly, it is both forward of the cockpit (where the Maple leaf was), and on the lower nose. Art Sager, the pilot who instigated the squadron badge, wrote a book called "Line Shoot"; the insignia is on the cover and you can find out the exact dates from there.

http://zippy.cso.uiuc.edu/~roma/roadmaps/images/NA/R/RedIndian1938.jpg

Cordially,

Gunny Bunny

Hysyde
03-06-2004, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>4th largest Allied airforce in WW2 - that puts us behind the Brits, USA and USSR - and ahead of the French, Belgians, Poles, Czechs, etc, etc... I think the phrase is "Forgotten Battles."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to mention that over a quarter of the men in the RAF were Canadians.

PriK
03-06-2004, 10:30 AM
It's funny watching BaldieJr get all pouty as if he had any historical knowledge beyond the borders of his state but that's pretty typical of xenophobically educated youth these days so we shouldn't hold it against him. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Fortunately, most Americans here are far more mature and intelligent enough to think about what they say.

I won't lose any sleep if Canadian squadrons aren't added but it does seem a little odd to skip one of the major contributors to the air war effort above some of the others included.

With that said, as nice as it would be to have some recognition in the game for Canada, it may be up to ourselves to get the job done.

Maybe we should all read a little more about the contributors from countries not our own no matter how small and foster a sense of comraderie instead of competition.

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Oso2323
03-06-2004, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
421 Squadron did carry the "Red Indian" insignia; <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, I remember writing something like that! ;-)

But Cdn squadrons frequently did not carry extra badges. Some had a small red (or green?) maple leaf carried under the front portion of the canopy. 421 carried the Red Indian on their ix's (don't know if it was applied to the v's). 416 had the Lynx emblem (a lynx over a green maple leaf with yell/gold trim - various styles). Some also had "City of..." under the cockpit (but I think those are ugly and I don't want them modelled!)

See my link above for other sites I also reccommend Robert Bracken's "Spitfire: the canadians" and "Spitfire II." He's found a number of Canadian spits with individual insignias. Your public library probably has a copy.

P.S. Most of the current RAF squadrons look pretty wrong to me - ie. Huge squadron crests!!! I'd like to see the photographic evidence that Oleg's team based this decision on.

bashii
03-06-2004, 11:18 AM
As a representative of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, we also subscribe to the belief that far too many honorable nations have been intentionally and unfairly excluded from proudly displaying their insignia within this Russian game. We affix blame for this glaring oversight and national disgrace squarely on the Americans.

DONB3397
03-06-2004, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bashii:
As a representative of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, we also subscribe to the belief that far too many honorable nations have been intentionally and unfairly excluded from proudly displaying their insignia within this Russian game. We affix blame for this glaring oversight and national disgrace squarely on the Americans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What a totally absurd premise! Where do you people come from? The Canadians were significant participants in WWII, particularly in the ETO. Their contributions don't need some idiot spokesman to blame Americans, or British, or Russians.

This community doesn't have a specific nationality. Moreover, you can find markings for every participant country on Il2skins.com or other sites.

Get real.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCax_RABQv__LZQo
There is no 'way' of winning;
There is only Winning!

darkhorizon11
03-06-2004, 01:07 PM
Dude, they flew the same planes.

Just go to a website and download the skins.

darkhorizon11
03-06-2004, 01:14 PM
Bashii man, lay off the chronic.

Bottom line is that U.S. involvement tipped the scales in the war and thats why we get soo much credit.
The Allied countries that had a major contribution. Were of course the United States, GB, Russia, and probably China. Pretty much every other country played a small part compared to those four.

Like I said, make your own skin and lay off.

JG52_wunsch
03-06-2004, 01:36 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Bashii man, lay off the chronic.

Bottom line is that U.S. involvement tipped the scales in the war and thats why we get soo much credit.
The Allied countries that had a major contribution. Were of course the United States, GB, Russia, and probably China. Pretty much every other country played a small part compared to those four.

hahaha...where did you learn history?by your comments,i would hazzard a guess...mmm usa?

Oso2323
03-06-2004, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Bashii man, lay off the chronic.

Bottom line is that U.S. involvement tipped the scales in the war and thats why we get soo much credit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, let's see. We have Polish squadrons, Czech squadrons, French Squadrons,and Dutch squadrons. Did we mention that the RCAF was bigger than all of these combined? That's why we want a few call numbers. Make a few skins? Dude, some of us want voice-packs as well.

The Americans deserve a lot of credit. But so do the British, Russians and Commonwealth forces. I like to think of WW2 as a team effort.

jensenpark
03-06-2004, 02:25 PM
Uh, guys...

I think Bashi is just kiddin' around.

Hopefully a bit of sarcasm aimed at all the posters here who blame the US for stuff.

At least I hope...

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

GunnyBunny001
03-06-2004, 02:51 PM
Here is a starting point for us http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RCAF Squadron Letters during WW2 are here:

http://www.btinternet.com/%7Elee_mail/rafcodes.html

Various Roundels and Letters are here:

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=4103

Here are some RCAF P51 markings:

http://aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/401-500/Rev471_IPMS-Can-Mustangs/rev471.htm

Oh, here is Kool link too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.frenkenstein.com/ww2/Canada/Canada.htm

Let's keep those RCAF url's / books / images flowing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cordially,

GB

bashii
03-06-2004, 03:03 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jensenpark
03-06-2004, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
Here is a starting point for us http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RCAF Squadron Letters during WW2 are here:

http://www.btinternet.com/%7Elee_mail/rafcodes.html

Various Roundels and Letters are here:

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=4103

Here are some RCAF P51 markings:

http://aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/401-500/Rev471_IPMS-Can-Mustangs/rev471.htm

Oh, here is Kool link too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.frenkenstein.com/ww2/Canada/Canada.htm

Let's keep those RCAF url's / books / images flowing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cordially,

GB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GB: great links - thanks!

I thought I was well read on our history and war record but I had no idea we had that many aces.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

DONB3397
03-06-2004, 03:38 PM
(Wipes egg off face.)

Oso2323
03-06-2004, 05:29 PM
You should check out: http://www.rcaf.com
It's a great site that provides a lot of history. It's been redesigned since I last went through it.


Here's a link for the history of Canadian Roundrels - it's just a jpeg advertisement, but you can get a good idea of what's what (given that we used the Brit roundrels for quite some time).
http://www.aerowareonline.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=1057

Some links regarding the 416 "lynx" emblem:

http://www.rcaf.com/profiles/aircraftfiles/spitfire_ix.htm
http://www.constable.ca/chadburn.htm
http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/ferguson.html

Probably the best books about Cdn Spits are "Spitfire: the Canadians" and "Spitfire II..." by Robert Bracken. They include colour plates. Also,Another great source is C.G. Jefford's "RAF Squadrons: A Comprehensive Record..." provides a listing of all RAF squadrons (including the commmonwealth/national sqns), where they were based and what they flew. It also includes maps.

Cheers.

jensenpark
03-06-2004, 07:16 PM
Thanks Oso...

Keep the links coming everyone.

Going to the Aviation Museum tomorrow with the kids. Beautiful Spit and Hurri there.
And a 109 that was recovered after it crashed in 1942 in Murmansk or somewhere near it...
Never get tired of seeing the real thing up close.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

Jonny___C
03-06-2004, 07:26 PM
Some silly comments as usual but I'll ignore those.

The RCAF flew in Europe in CO-OPERATION with British and Allied forces, not under British command.

The 400-series squadrons can be included in any order of battle that details the British, that's no problem - but they should be there.

The insignia was by agreement the same as British insignia but the codes and badges were distinct. A red maple leaf on a white circle under the cockpit was one of them.

By D-Day 1944, there were in Europe three RCAF Spitfire wings (WINGS not squadrons), plus a wing of ground-attack Typhoons and a reconnaissance wing of Spitfires and Mustangs.

The first Canadian bomber mission over Europe was on June 12, 1941. A year later 68 RCAF bombers took part in the first 1000 bomber raid. By 1944, the RCAF was regularly sending out more than 200 heavy bombers a night on single raids.


By 1944, a quarter of what is usually referred to as the British bomber offensive over Europe was actually Canadian.

On the night of October 6, 1944, RCAF NO. 6 group sent out a record 293 four-engine bombers, Halifaxes and Lancasters, to bomb Dortmund.

10,000 Canadians lost their lives in Bomber Command.

There were 142 Canadian aces in WWII (an ace being a pilot who shot down five or more enemy aircraft). Thirty-two of these aces shot down ten or more aircraft. The top five aces were:

"Screwball" George Beurling - 32 kills

"Woody" Vernon Woodward - 21 kills

Henry McLeod - 21 kills

Mark Brown - 18.5 kills

William McKnight - 16.5 kills

If you're going to get detailed about ACES over Europe, you damned well should have some Canadian squadrons in the game!

http://www.nt.net/toby/xspit640.jpg

GunnyBunny001
03-06-2004, 07:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny___C:

_If you're going to get detailed about ACES over Europe, you damned well should have some Canadian squadrons in the game!_

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheers Mate !

What city are you located in http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think at this point Oleg or another representative of the company should make a statement about the prospects of seeing a CANADA selection with the appropriate Squadron selections with proper markings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cordially,

GB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jonny___C
03-06-2004, 09:00 PM
Timmins, Gunny, home of Shania Twain. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.nt.net/toby/shania2.jpg

Koohullin
03-06-2004, 09:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:

I think at this point Oleg or another representative of the company should make a statement about the prospects of seeing a CANADA selection with the appropriate Squadron selections with proper markings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cordially,

GB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Just add them to the UK selction list. What are 'proper' Canadian markings?

DynamicBass
03-06-2004, 10:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tully__:
If Canada get their own markings, so should Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and a number of other non-European participants.

================================================


Thanks Tully!! As a South African I know a fair bit about our contribution to WW2 (Air, Ground and Sea) It seems that very few on this forum do and I'm tempted to one day do a large posting on the South African Aviation contribution, the contents of which will realy suprise most people!

I agree on the Canadian issue, however as you state I would also like to see the addition of New Zealand, Australian and South African squadron's/markings one day (South African roundels substituted the red dot in center with orange - not easy to pick up in black and white photo's). I think that these Commonwealth Countries are generaly not always given their just due in this and many other circles.

Anyway, I am now a little off topic and IL2 is realy a Russian/German one to start with.

Regards,
Dynamicbass

DynamicBass
03-06-2004, 10:46 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jonny___C:
Timmins, Gunny, home of Shania Twain. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And her South African husband! Heh, Heh...

(Sorry, couldn't resist!!)

GunnyBunny001
03-07-2004, 06:14 AM
http://www.rcaf.com/6group/squadrons.html

Here is an interesting webpage with the Squadron info.

I received an email that the following two books are good resources for RCAF info during WW2:

"Aircraft Camouflage & Markings, 1907-1954" by Bruce Robertson (Harleyfield Publications, 1956)

"Aircraft In Profile" Volumes 1 thru 9, gen. editor, Charles Cain (Doubleday, various dates)

Does anyone have access to these books and could comment on the quality and quantity of info available in them ?

Cordially,

GB

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 07:03 AM
&gt;&gt;"And her South African husband! Heh, Heh...
(Sorry, couldn't resist!!)"

No problem. We're multicultural. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PBNA-Boosher
03-07-2004, 07:52 AM
I am in favor of any country being added as long as it was in WW2 and fought alongside either the Axis or allies. Hell, even the neutral European countries should be added. Even the ones that were taken early on, like Norway, the Netherlands, etc...

jensenpark
03-07-2004, 08:20 AM
Here's a good note from one of the sites:

"The RCAF contribution to the Royal Air Force was significant . At least one in four fighter pilots in the Battle of Malta was from Canada as did one-fifth of Coastal Command's Aircrew. At the end of the war, almost a quarter of Bomber Command's aircrew were from the RCAF"

Amazing little side stat, almost 1 out of every 100 of the entire Canadian population at the time of WW2 served overseas in the RCAF. (almost 100,000 out of population of 10 million - with a further 150,000 serving as support roles in the RCAF).

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

Koohullin
03-07-2004, 08:41 AM
This was posted in the SimHQ forum with regard to the poll question:

"Units are listed by the national insignia they carried. The RCAF squadrons carried RAF roundels and so should go in the UK list. If there was a unit badge, then it will be added, just as other units have it added, like 303 Polish squadron has it added.


The poll question is being petty and is badly worded."

Nothing more to add.

PriK
03-07-2004, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The poll question is being _petty_ and is badly worded._"

Nothing more to add.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh oh, who called the semantics police?

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Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:
The poll question is being _petty_ and is badly worded._"

Nothing more to add.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another Yes-Man. Think for yourself, please.

No it's really no sense to try to put Canadian Aircraft into the game. Make 'em all British.

No. 402 Squadron RCAF Spitfire V "City of Winnipeg"

http://www.nt.net/toby/xcspit2.jpg

http://www.nt.net/toby/xcspit3.jpg

Koohullin
03-07-2004, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny___C:

Another Yes-Man. Think for yourself, please.

No it's really no sense to try to put Canadian Aircraft into the game. Make 'em all British.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you weren't such an a$$hat, you would have seen that I have no problems with adding RCAF squadrons, they should be, as stated already, but not under a seperate country listing. No one is saying RCAF Canadian Aircraft should be not put into the game. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Why should I type my own words when the copied words are straight to the point? And the truth.

Arms1
03-07-2004, 10:15 AM
jensenpark wrote "Amazing little side stat, almost 1 out of every 100 of the entire Canadian population at the time of WW2 served overseas in the RCAF. (almost 100,000 out of population of 10 million - with a further 150,000 serving as support roles in the RCAF)"


even more amazing is that our overseas contingent in the rcaf was volunteer

grobber
03-07-2004, 10:51 AM
So what can I do to help get the addition of Canadian squadrons or even a canadian Airforce

Nimits
03-07-2004, 11:07 AM
The RCAF flew within the RAF command structure in the ETO; just add some 400 series squadrons to the RAF (with the maple leaf markings, etc.) In the interest of historical accuracy, they do not really need their own separate country.

GunnyBunny001
03-07-2004, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nimits:
The RCAF flew within the RAF command structure in the ETO; just add some 400 series squadrons to the RAF (with the maple leaf markings, etc.) In the interest of historical accuracy, they do not really need their own separate country.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pah ! How about we just add CANADA and the RCAF as it's own country and air force then place the dozens of Squadron's under the RCAFs command structure ! Canada was a sovereign nation during WW2, we fought as RCAF not as RAF.

Here are a few more books I have come across, that look interesting, anyone have these ?

Aircraft nose art : 80 years of aviation artwork

Metal canvas : Canadians and World War II aircraft nose art

RAF & RCAF Aircraft Nose Art in World War II

Cordially,

GB

JG52_wunsch
03-07-2004, 11:25 AM
correct,we don t need a seperate folder,unless it s a commonwealth one(which imho would be great).i d be happy with the 400s being included
cheers

Arms1
03-07-2004, 12:05 PM
i'd be happy with letter codes for even just 1 wing, perhaps 126 wing?

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 01:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why should I type my own words when the copied words are straight to the point? And the truth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that goes to the core of your problem, although you don't recognize it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ARSNL
03-07-2004, 01:58 PM
First off.. I AM CANADIAN! (Inside joke for us Canucks)..

My answer... NO! NO! NO!

Why? Because we were not a soverign nation as some pointed out in this thread. We were a Commonwealth country, still part of the United Kingdom. As we were part of the United Kingdom at the time, would it not seem absurd to not put Canadian Squadrons under the UK listing?

Want more... ok.

There were 2 types of Canadian squadrons. RCAF and RAF(Canadian) such as 242 Squadron of the Duxford Wing commanded by Bader. BOTH of these types should be added to the current United Kingdom list. Any specific markings can be taken care of there. All of these squadrons, whether RCAF or RAF(Canadian) were under a single command. RAF Fighter Command.

jensenpark
03-07-2004, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ARSNL:
First off.. I AM CANADIAN! (Inside joke for us Canucks)..

My answer... NO! NO! NO!

Why? Because we were not a soverign nation as some pointed out in this thread. We were a Commonwealth country, still part of the United Kingdom. As we were part of the United Kingdom at the time, would it not seem absurd to not put Canadian Squadrons under the UK listing?

Want more... ok.

There were 2 types of Canadian squadrons. RCAF and RAF(Canadian) such as 242 Squadron of the Duxford Wing commanded by Bader. BOTH of these types should be added to the current United Kingdom list. Any specific markings can be taken care of there. All of these squadrons, whether RCAF or RAF(Canadian) were under a single command. RAF Fighter Command.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG you are a Grade A moron!
We were a sovereign nation, and not part of the UK. Being part of the commonwealth had nothing to do with it.
Why do you think it took an act of Parliament to declare war...?
Go back to school you twit.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

Koohullin
03-07-2004, 02:11 PM
Good post ARSNL. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Well most anyways.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


To bad the a$$hat can't see that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif He, for sure, has some kind of disability. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

ARSNL
03-07-2004, 02:19 PM
Yeah, he is a fool Koohullin. Guess he des not realise we were still part of the UK then. Guess he has not noticed the Union Jack on the Dominion of Canada flag used at the time. Guess he does not know we were not fully independent until the 80's.

Oh well, the most that they will add is the CDN squadrons to UK anyways, which will be correct.

Oh, and an act of Parliment was not necessary, but a show of the "will of the people." And sorry, school was many years ago for me kid, you pay more attention tonmorrow.

Koohullin
03-07-2004, 02:33 PM
No not Jenson, he is only a little bit confused. Was is not that all our laws had to go to the UK to get the 'final' signature before they became law. It was PET that got this change, was it not?

The J_C is the a$$hat.

PriK
03-07-2004, 02:41 PM
I have to say it would be fine, and arguably more or less pertinent to just be listed under UK. Let's not put too much strain on Oleg after all his hard work, but who knows? It might already be in the works. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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jensenpark
03-07-2004, 02:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:
No not Jenson, he is only a little bit confused. Was is not that all our laws had to go to the UK to get the 'final' signature before they became law. It was PET that got this change, was it not?

The J_C is the a$$hat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guys, do not confuse the repatriation of the constitution as signalling actual indepedence for Pete's sake...that is like arguing the GG is the actual ruler of Canada.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

Lipfert_5JG52
03-07-2004, 03:20 PM
Hola,

I'd be happy to have the 400 series squadrons available under the RAF.

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why? Because we were not a soverign nation as some pointed out in this thread. We were a Commonwealth country, still part of the United Kingdom. As we were part of the United Kingdom at the time, would it not seem absurd to not put Canadian Squadrons under the UK listing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arsnl, you must be American. You certainly don't know anything about Canadian history. A Grade 8 student could set you straight.

Not to slur Americans but it seems a lot of them think the Queen can STILL tell us what to do (Never mind the fact that she can't even tell the British what to do!)

Do one thing. Check when Great Britain declared war on Hitler's Germany. Then check when Canada did, and how it was done. That should admit a glimmer of light.

Friendship, tradition and co-operation are not the same as colonial status, and I'm frankly amazed that a Canadian would mistake that. Your cheapening of your own country's contribution is almost reprehensible, except that you did it out of ignorance.

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Good post ARSNL. Well most anyways.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you go again. Not thinking for yourself.

You don't know squat about Canadian history either.

Oso2323
03-07-2004, 03:33 PM
Let's try to show some Canadian politeness here, shall we? Trust a bunch of Canadians to turn everything into a constitutional discussion! :-)

Yes we were for all intents and purposes an independent country, but we were tightly integrated into the RAF organization. It doesn't matter what folder we are placed under. The important thing is that we get our squadrons and then work on a speech-pack!

Cheers.

arcadeace
03-07-2004, 03:34 PM
I'm an American Jonny_C and I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. There is not one American I've ever met who would even consider such a notion. That's an absurd judgment, you're quite ignorant with American culture.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1073167658.jpg

ARSNL
03-07-2004, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny___C:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Good post ARSNL. Well most anyways.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you go again. Not thinking for yourself.

You don't know squat about Canadian history either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We did not however Declare War in the First World War..... please point out to me the act of Government or Monarchy that changed our status between 1914 and 1939.

Heuristic_ALgor
03-07-2004, 03:55 PM
Jonny_C IS an American living in Canada

VW-IceFire
03-07-2004, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oso2323:
Let's try to show some Canadian politeness here, shall we? Trust a bunch of Canadians to turn everything into a constitutional discussion! :-)

Yes we were for all intents and purposes an independent country, but we were tightly integrated into the RAF organization. It doesn't matter what folder we are placed under. The important thing is that we get our squadrons and then work on a speech-pack!

Cheers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is true. I guess we're just being typical Canadians no matter what we do http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We don't really even need a speech pack persay...I'm quite happy with the RAF speech pack that has a Canadian, an Australian, and some UK folks all doing voices for it.

I just want 400 series squadrons listed with proper markings if they sported any and unit codes. RCAF was tightly integrated into the RAF structure...sure the Canadian airforce was independent but not like the USAAF was from the RAF. In terms of marking scheme, which is what is most important in terms of Forgotten Battles GUI system, the RAF and the RCAF used the same markings and adhered to the same standards while fighting in Britain. Again, all we need, if they aren't present...is a proper squadron listing.

In Forgotten Battles...the Canadians are most forgotten at the moment but lets be persistent and yet paitent to try and get some more presence.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

jensenpark
03-07-2004, 04:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oso2323:
Let's try to show some Canadian politeness here, shall we? Trust a bunch of Canadians to turn everything into a constitutional discussion! :-)

LOL! Too funny!

I can see the rest of the FB world scratching their heads at this one, wondering why we are laughing.

Well done. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

GunnyBunny001
03-07-2004, 05:01 PM
I think this thread has been infiltrated by foreign spies claiming to Canadians and passing on disinformation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Let's not get side tracked here, we are focused on Canada and the RCAF for the period 1939 to 1945.

Here is the truth about Canada's soverignity:

In 1931, Canada achieved complete autonomy from Britain and sovereign nation status through the 'Statute of Westminster'. Canada now had full power to make its' own 'foreign' and 'defence' policies. Great Britain could no longer declare war on Canada's behalf. The British-sponsored agreement granted almost complete political independence. Britain would no longer be able to directly make laws for Canada. In addition, Canada was free to undo previous British-made colonial laws.

In other words, Canada would be treated as a sovereign, independent country, aligned only through their mutual allegiance to the British Crown.

Britain declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939.

Canada an autonomous sovereign nation declared war on Germany on September 10, 1939.

Canada -- lynchpin of the English speaking world, whose relations of friendly intimacy with the United States on the one hand and her unswerving fidelity to the British Commonwealth and the motherland on the other. Canada - the link which joins together these great branches of the human family... by Winston Churchill http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Taylortony
03-07-2004, 05:03 PM
I intend to do canadian and american spitfire squadron Skins as i progress http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oso2323
03-07-2004, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
We don't really even need a speech pack persay...I'm quite happy with the RAF speech pack that has a Canadian, an Australian, and some UK folks all doing voices for it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see the speech pack as a logical extension - and perhaps something to do down the road. Personally I'd find it odd to be flying Canuck while listening to Aussies & Kiwis. If I had some recording equipment I'd do it myself. I mean, it's not like there isn't a surplus of Canadian actors - even unemployed ones.... (Insert 'taking over Hollywood' comment here.)

For what it's worth we already have the nice Commonwealth speech pack that Extreme One & Polymando made for the BoB campaign. I use it all the time.

julien673
03-07-2004, 05:14 PM
Did we have Canadien force http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif

Only after the WWII we are a "officiel" country... no before that dude http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif, and first of all, we are under the great britain flag

so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif

Et.... Vive le Québec Libre ! ... de vous tous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Oso2323
03-07-2004, 05:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Only after the WWII we are a "officiel" country... no before that dude http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif, and first of all, we are under the great britain flag <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to head this one off at the pass I'm going to refer you to a previous post:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
In 1931, Canada achieved complete autonomy from Britain and sovereign nation status through the 'Statute of Westminster'. Canada now had full power to make its' own 'foreign' and 'defence' policies. Great Britain could no longer declare war on Canada's behalf. The British-sponsored agreement granted almost complete political independence. Britain would no longer be able to directly make laws for Canada. In addition, Canada was free to undo previous British-made colonial laws.

In other words, Canada would be treated as a sovereign, independent country, aligned only through their mutual allegiance to the British Crown.

Britain declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939.

Canada an autonomous sovereign nation declared war on Germany on September 10, 1939.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There. No need to beat a dead horse.

julien673
03-07-2004, 05:21 PM
hehe ... i live in Montreal dude... i know what is going on here. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Terre Neuve is just added to Canada in the 1946 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 05:54 PM
x

[This message was edited by Jonny___C on Sun March 07 2004 at 05:12 PM.]

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 06:39 PM
Seems to be a problem copying material into a post. It's too long to type all over gain so, in the meantime, here's an MS Word link...

http://www.nt.net/toby/canada.doc

Contains answers to Arcadeace, Arsnl, and others.

[This message was edited by Jonny___C on Sun March 07 2004 at 06:08 PM.]

jensenpark
03-07-2004, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by julien673:
hehe ... i live in Montreal dude... i know what is going on here. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Terre Neuve is just added to Canada in the 1946 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Newfoundland joined confederation in '49...so living in Montreal or not, I guess you don't know what is going on here... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

arcadeace
03-07-2004, 07:48 PM
Your Canadian history lesson has nothing to do with my response to your arrogant ignorance of American culture. Your link hasn't salvaged your image in your endless quest for derogatory American 'comparisons', you don't have the friends here you do at NetWing's Lunatics Lounge. You're in your own world. You can believe anything you want about America. Your statement ain't reality guy, on the contrary...your judgements on our views of the Queen and Canada's relationship with England are a total joke.

"I have run across American misconceptions about Canada on a regular basis. I don't fault Americans for that, but Canadians know a sh*tload more about the United States than Americans know about Canada. That's a fact of life."

"Arsnl, you must be American. You certainly don't know anything about Canadian history. A Grade 8 student could set you straight."

"Not to slur Americans but it seems a lot of them think the Queen can STILL tell us what to do (Never mind the fact that she can't even tell the British what to do!)"

Uh hu http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Bullcrap!

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 08:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
Your Canadian history lesson has nothing to do with my response to your arrogant ignorance of American culture. Your link hasn't salvaged your image in your endless quest for derogatory American 'comparisons', you don't have the friends here you do at NetWing's Lunatics Lounge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes, Arcadeace. Now I remember. You're the one who got burnt at Netwings. You seem to be a bitter fellow, probably with good reason.

To paraphrase Churchill - "You're a modest man and you have a lot to be modest about." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Your fellow Americans hung you out to dry because they recognized a fool when they saw one. I'm not particularly concerned about your opinions on anything; I've seen enough of you to know that I needn't be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You're in your own world. You can believe anything you want about America. Your statement ain't reality guy, on the contrary...your judgements on our views of the Queen and Canada's relationship with England are a total joke. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can hear violins playing in the background. Did you sneak in a midi file?

I'm more concerned with some of my fellow Canadians who don't seem to know their own history. You're just a temporary distraction. Go ahead big boy - tell me what you know. Give your Google search a workout.

No more olive branch, see? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

arcadeace
03-07-2004, 08:24 PM
Just like my experience at Netwings, you cannot and will not answer for yourself. Your bigotry and ignorant judgements on American culture and history is blatant. "I'm not particularly concerned about your opinions on anything" -
you can't give a reason for your opinions wimp. I speak out against your duplicity and arrogant hypocrisy. From the very beginning you were afraid to give an account of your derogatory smears.

Like I said, your statement here is a total joke. Your arrogant dismissals should be clear to anyone observing this. You're a fraud Jonny_C.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1073167658.jpg

Jonny___C
03-07-2004, 08:53 PM
Ah, I got your attention. Good. You need an outlet for all that bile. It's not good for you.

I've been around internet flying forums for a long time. I can see you like this place because it gives you some freedom to indulge your excesses. It's better than kicking the dog. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Don't worry, you won't make a dent.

arcadeace
03-07-2004, 08:58 PM
"I'm not particularly concerned about your opinions on anything." "You're just a temporary distraction." "Give your Google search a workout." Really? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The smell of your foot is still in your mouth Jonny_C. You can't stand and face your own words.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1073167658.jpg

Oso2323
03-07-2004, 09:38 PM
c'mon, let's focus here: how to get RCAF squadrons added into the game.

PriK
03-07-2004, 09:58 PM
I agree.

C'mon guys, both of you are intelligent enough to see that the argument has gone past educated debate into a clever-comeback pi$$ing contest.

Let's keep the debate on topic and not be a afraid to learn a few things, as I have already.

Break the mould and pretend this isn't a typical UBI thread. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://charvel.acwos.com/chbanner.jpg

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

DynamicBass
03-07-2004, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
even more amazing is that our overseas contingent in the rcaf was volunteer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arms1, it is my understanding that all of the commonwealth countries human contributions were volunters. It certainly was also the case with the South Africans.

Agamemnon22
03-07-2004, 10:03 PM
I don't see what the big deal is... find references on Canadian squadrons in the ETO and send them to Oleg, and he'll add them. I'd even draw the RCAF roundel texture if need be. I'm just not sure Canadian squadrons flew Canadian colours in combat.

Another thing you could do is organize a Canadian online squad.

Oso2323
03-07-2004, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
I don't see what the big deal is... find references on Canadian squadrons in the ETO and send them to Oleg, and he'll add them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is, someone already did this and for some reason it was rejected. I guess we could start with a list of squadron codes we'd like to see added. Many RCAF planes didn't carry any extra badges.

Thought: do you think Oleg would have given the rights to these things to the Battle over Europe project?

skopro_PL
03-08-2004, 12:23 AM
i can understand that u would like a canadian air force as a seperate country,but the fact is that canada only flew under britains flag in WWII so i have to say the representation u are getting is the proper one according to history...&lt;S&gt;

FMJ3G
03-08-2004, 05:58 AM
http://www.warplane.com/pages/ourstories.html

Here is a link to some interesting RCAF history during WW2.

grobber
03-08-2004, 06:03 AM
Hi All

Last night I started making some RCAF regiments that are available in the multiplayer under the UK folder with Squadron shields and proper (as well as I can find on the internet) code letters.

Though I would rather have Canada have its own country folder (Poland had its own Air Force for about 2 weeks and it gets a folder?) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif how do I add this to the UK folder for use in the FMB, QMB, and to hopefully create some missions hopefully leading to a campaign.

Jonny__C
03-08-2004, 09:30 AM
Yes, OK. I think we're about done when the schoolyard taunts get trotted out. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DynamicBass
03-08-2004, 10:47 AM
One thing as always that I am pleased about is the amount you learn from reading threads like this.

They sometimes get a little out of hand but the quality posts always more than make up for some of the petty squables.

I am impressed with Canada's contribution to WW2 and although I always knew it was a good one, I did not realise by just how much.

Go Canada!!

JG52_wunsch
03-08-2004, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by skopro_PL:
i can understand that u would like a canadian air force as a seperate country,but the fact is that canada only flew under britains flag in WWII so i have to say the representation u are getting is the proper one according to history...&lt;S&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there is no represetation,there in lies the problem,zero 400 sqdrns.most would be happy just
being included in the u.k folder,i know i would
cheers


grobber anything i can do to help,i m a noob at this stuff,but hey cheers m8

LBR_Barkhorn
03-08-2004, 11:45 AM
Not only canada, but every country that has participated in this war: Brazil, Australia, N. Zealand, China, Netherlands...

Leutnant G. Barkhorn - "White 11"
Adjudant des Staffelkapit√¬§n I/KG51

http://www.alldata.com.br/fischer/Avatares/banner_bark.gif

Huxley_S
03-08-2004, 11:47 AM
Who's side were Brazil on?

DynamicBass
03-08-2004, 12:00 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LBR_Barkhorn:
Not only canada, but every country that has participated in this war: Brazil, Australia, N. Zealand, China, Netherlands...


Yes and it is info and stories from these countries that I am particulaly interested in finding out more about.

Is it safe to assume that you are Brazilian?

If so why don't you start a thread concerning Brazil's aviational input into WW2? It would be good to educate many out there, that other, less acknowledged countries provided some very handy and important help to the major powers in this conflict.

I have stated before, that I will one day post some good detail on South African involvement in WW2 (and maybe some smaller isolated topical posts before that).

I'm sure that many out ther will be rather surprised with some of the details I'll post.

In the meantime this thread concerns Canada and I'm learning a lot about another country that perhaps is not always given it's due (concerning WW2) in the popular press.

More info please Canadians!!

Regards,
Dynamicbass

Huxley_S
03-08-2004, 12:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes we were for all intents and purposes an independent country, but we were tightly integrated into the RAF organization. It doesn't matter what folder we are placed under. The important thing is that we get our squadrons and then work on a speech-pack!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offence meant at by this... but wouldn't it sound _exactly_ like the US speech pack? Perhaps with one of the actors having an outrageous french accent?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LBR_Barkhorn
03-08-2004, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Barkhorn:
Not only canada, but every country that has participated in this war: Brazil, Australia, N. Zealand, China, Netherlands...

Leutnant G. Barkhorn - "White 11"
Adjudant des Staffelkapit√¬§n I/KG51

http://www.alldata.com.br/fischer/Avatares/banner_bark.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Allied side!!! They fought in Italy, between 1944 and april/1945. the brazilian air force was represented by the 1‚¬ļGavca (grupo de avia√ß„o de ca√ßa), who whas one of the 3 non-american squadrons to be awarded with the US Presidencial Unit Citation (the other two where RAAF squadrons). They used the P-47D27 for ground attack and escort the B17's over Italian air space.

More info here:
www.rudnei.cunha.nom.br/FAB/en/index.html (http://www.rudnei.cunha.nom.br/FAB/en/index.html)

Leutnant G. Barkhorn - "White 11"
Adjudant des Staffelkapit√¬§n I/KG51

http://www.alldata.com.br/fischer/Avatares/banner_bark.gif

Huxley_S
03-08-2004, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Allied side!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought so... but your signiture fooled me!

JG52_wunsch
03-08-2004, 12:20 PM
srry,hux but not even close(as far as speech pack is concerned).

Black Sheep
03-08-2004, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DynamicBass:

Thanks Tully!! As a South African I know a fair bit about our contribution to WW2 (Air, Ground and Sea) It seems that very few on this forum do and I'm tempted to one day do a large posting on the South African Aviation contribution, the contents of which will realy suprise most people!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sailor Malan is an obvious choice - his 10 Rules Of Air Combat still stand today.

Personally, I have the greatest of respect for all those Canadians who fought and died a long way from home in defence of Western Europe's freedom - but feel it makes most sense to keep any 400 series squadrons (and I hope they appear on IL2skins.com http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif) under the UK folder.

LBR_Barkhorn
03-08-2004, 12:31 PM
rin<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Barkhorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Barkhorn:
Not only canada, but every country that has participated in this war: Brazil, Australia, N. Zealand, China, Netherlands...

Leutnant G. Barkhorn - "White 11"
Adjudant des Staffelkapit√¬§n I/KG51

http://www.alldata.com.br/fischer/Avatares/banner_bark.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Allied side!!! They fought in Italy, between 1944 and april/1945. the brazilian air force was represented by the 1‚¬ļGavca (grupo de avia√ß„o de ca√ßa), who whas one of the 3 non-american squadrons to be awarded with the US Presidencial Unit Citation (the other two where RAAF squadrons). They used the P-47D27 for ground attack and escort the B17's over Italian air space.

More info here:
http://www.rudnei.cunha.nom.br/FAB/en/index.html

Leutnant G. Barkhorn - "White 11"
Adjudant des Staffelkapit√¬§n I/KG51

http://www.alldata.com.br/fischer/Avatares/banner_bark.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, you where not the first or the only... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Leutnant G. Barkhorn - "White 11"
Adjudant des Staffelkapit√¬§n I/KG51

http://www.alldata.com.br/fischer/Avatares/banner_bark.gif

MZ6
03-08-2004, 01:15 PM
What for? Canadian planes looked just like UK planes in WWII, and I'm Canadain

Jonny___C
03-08-2004, 03:03 PM
I created this site about three years ago for the express purpose of making Canada's role in the world wars better known...

http://www.nt.net/toby

It's had over 100,000 hits since then, so maybe it has done some good.

Huxley_S
03-08-2004, 03:39 PM
Question: do Canadians like the Monty Python lumberjack sketch?

Huxley_S
03-08-2004, 03:40 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jensenpark
03-08-2004, 04:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Question: do Canadians like the Monty Python lumberjack sketch?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sketch? It's a bloody documentary! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

PriK
03-08-2004, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MZ6:
What for? Canadian planes looked just like UK planes in WWII, and I'm Canadain<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're absolutely right. Ok Oleg, let's just remove the Polish, French, Norwegian, USA, Czechoslovakian regimentals and call it a day.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

If you had read the thread you'd realize that the Canadian contribution of pilots in the UK was greater than all of those combined (not sure how big the Eagle squadron was so correct me if I'm mistaken) but all we're asking is a couple of 400 series squadrons.

It would be different if we had played some minor bit role in the conflict, I mean we can't expect Oleg to put every single country that had one or two pilots in. But if you look at the facts, not having been put in at all is actually a glaring ommission.

Maybe Oleg has a legitimate reason for not doing so but I can't seem to think of one myself.

http://charvel.acwos.com/chbanner.jpg

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

GunnyBunny001
03-08-2004, 04:40 PM
Some of the RCAF squadrons would place their Patches near the nose of their planes and the Canadian Ensign under their cockpits. This would certainly warrant separate mods for RCAF planes.

Here are a few RCAF links, hopefully enough to give a modder all the details they would need:

RCAF Patches and Squadrons:

http://www.airforce.forces.ca/hist/rcafsqns_e.htm

RCAF Call Numbers:

http://www.btinternet.com/%7Elee_mail/rafcodes.html

RCAF Squadrons:

http://www.rcaf.com/6group/squadrons.html

RCAF Squadrons:

http://www.rcaf.com/1939_1945_waryears/squadrons/overseas/index.htm


RCAF Nose Art Books:

http://www.hikokiwarplanes.com/noseart.htm

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1551250136/qid=1078789898/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7915902-7160902?v=glance&s=books

[This message was edited by GunnyBunny001 on Mon March 08 2004 at 03:53 PM.]

Black Sheep
03-08-2004, 04:42 PM
Hmmm....

Think you might find that at least two Polish formed squadrons flew in The Battle Of Britian... not just one or two here or there.

Same goes for the Czechs.

PriK
03-08-2004, 05:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moo.Cow:
Hmmm....

Think you might find that at least two Polish formed squadrons flew in The Battle Of Britian... not just one or two here or there.

Same goes for the Czechs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was not implying that the countries I mentioned only had one or two pilots BY ANY MEANS. The Poles were very determined and fearless pilots from what I read! I was trying to get across the idea that not every nation that declared war had a squadron to throw together to fight in Britain or would be necessary to include in the game.

Somehow I just knew someone would read my post out of context but such is the nature of reading typed english on international forums. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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GunnyBunny001
03-08-2004, 05:30 PM
Hello fellows:

Would we please just discuss the RCAF on this thread. If people feel other countries should be represented separately, by all means start a new topic and discuss it, thank you.

Here are some interesting RCAF facts:

During WW2 the Canadian government took all possible measures to ensure that RCAF units stationed overseas remain truly Canadian. Towards that purpose, a majority of officers, pilots and non-flying personnel had to be Canadian and under Canadian command. Great Britain respected Canadian concerns as much as possible despite staff and material shortage issues; this difficult situation was compounded by cultural differences between British and Canadian airmen and officers. The RCAF managed to remain a truly national force but achieved this only through constant efforts and negotiations between the government and military authorities of both countries.

The Royal Canadian Air Force sent 48 squadrons and 94,000 officers and men overseas. Tens of thousands served in RAF squadrons, most quite happily, but it took enormous pressure on London from the air minister, C. G. Power, to get substantial Canadian formations created. Power's policy of Canadianization succeeded none the less, and there were soon RCAF fighter wings and a bomber group. Fighter pilots fought in the battle of Britain, in Malta, in the Western Desert campaigns, and in north-west Europe; two transport squadrons flew out of Burma; and a Catalina squadron served notably on Ceylon. The RCAF also had responsibility for home defence, notably on the east and west coasts. It also provided fighter squadrons in support of US forces in Alaska.

But it was in the bomber war that Canada made its greatest operational contribution. The RCAF formed its first bomber squadron in June 1941, entirely from Canadians serving with the RAF. The next year, seven more squadrons took to the air, and on 1 January 1943, No. 6 Group of eight squadrons came into being. Based in Yorkshire, a long distance from their targets, the RCAF Group suffered serious teething problems. It flew older Wellington bombers; it had bad luck, and it lost more than a hundred aircraft and crews between March and June 1943; it suffered in consequence from morale problems. Not until the disciplinarian Air Vice-Marshal 'Black Mike' McEwen took over command in January 1944, and not until Lancasters and Halifaxes had replaced the Group's Wellingtons, did matters improve. Thereafter the Canadians played their part well. In all, the group's aircraft flew 41,000 operations and dropped 126,000 tons of bombs, one-eighth of Bomber Command's total. The cost was 3,500 dead; another 4,700 RCAF officers and men died in other Bomber Command squadrons. In all, 17,101 members of the RCAF were killed during the war, a number almost exactly equal to the army's combat losses in the European theatre.

jensenpark
03-08-2004, 05:41 PM
Good post GB.

Thanks for the info.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

Beirut
03-08-2004, 05:46 PM
Yeah baby!

Go canada!

"Official Lancaster whiner"

PriK
03-08-2004, 05:56 PM
Weren't a good portion of hurricanes and spitfires manufactured in Canada as well?

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Koohullin
03-08-2004, 06:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PriK:
Weren't a good portion of hurricanes and spitfires manufactured in Canada as well?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only the Hurricane by CC&F in Thunder Bay (434 a/c).

The Mosquito by deHavilland, Can, Helldivers, SB2C, by CC&F(479 A/C), Cansos(PBYs), Lancaster B Mk X(431 a/c) used by #419, 420, 425, 431, 434, no ops by 420, 425), Bolingbrooke(Blenheim)

CC&F had a female head production engineer but then there wasome sort of scandal and she had to leave.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oso2323
03-08-2004, 06:43 PM
Another interesting thing that I've read from a number of sources is that the Canadian squadrons were more formal (and perhaps strict) than their British/Commonwealth counterparts. This was particularly noticed by Canadians transferring in from the Med.

Canadians who transferred from Brit squadrons also missed their 'batmen' who cleaned their clothes and did other domestic tasks for the pilots.

PriK
03-08-2004, 06:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oso2323:
Another interesting thing that I've read from a number of sources is that the Canadian squadrons were more formal (and perhaps strict) than their British/Commonwealth counterparts. This was particularly noticed by Canadians transferring in from the Med.

Canadians who transferred from Brit squadrons also missed their 'batmen' who cleaned their clothes and did other domestic tasks for the pilots.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Odd, the books I've read seem to imply that the Canadian squads were significantly less formal and strict than their British counterparts. They were described by British pilots as "coarse" but very friendly when approached.

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Koohullin
03-08-2004, 07:02 PM
The colonials were the rabble rousers. Hard to keep those uncivilized county boys in check.

The Brits were the ones that played it by the book which the colonials help loosen up.

jensenpark
03-08-2004, 07:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:
The _colonials_ were the rabble rousers. Hard to keep those uncivilized _county boys_ in check.

The Brits were the ones that played it by the _book_ which the _colonials_ help loosen up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

from what I recall from Townsend's and Bader's books, this is right...

http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:x5jImasyZY8J:www.spitcrazy.com/ensigncrest.jpg

GunnyBunny001
03-08-2004, 08:19 PM
Here is an interesting Halifax recovery from a Canadian perspective:

http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=02fbce87-8866-4f5a-a093-24b61b547752

Enjoy !

JG52_wunsch
03-08-2004, 10:02 PM
i d have to agree with prik and koohullin.i don t know if anyones posted this link,cheers

http://www.nnbblkdrgn.bravepages.com/british_aircraft_markings.htm

jensenpark
03-09-2004, 05:56 AM
le bump

http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:x5jImasyZY8J:www.spitcrazy.com/ensigncrest.jpg

Koohullin
03-09-2004, 06:04 AM
Just to make it clear, the colonials were not just from Canada but from ALL the countries in the British Commonwealth &gt; Oz, NZ, Rhodesia, SA,...... sorry not listing them all.

Bunny, do you have a bigger drum, I am not deaf yet?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

grobber
03-09-2004, 06:25 AM
Hi All

I have a first cut of the Canadian Regiments done. Basically what I did was create regiments for all squadrons that have airplane types modeled in Il2 FB AEP. Thus most of the Canadian bomber squads are not represented unless they flew Blenheims.

Included are various fighter, fighter-bomber, recon, bomber, coastal defense and transport squadrons.

Though not 100% historically accurate I followed the precedent already established in Il2 FB of applying the squadron patch and the correct code letters.

I am looking for a few things.

1. Some people to beta test, (check spelling. code letters, names... of the regiments), Opinion if it is good enough I finished this last night watch the habs.

2. Some place to host this, once complete

3. How to add this either as a new country (my preference, Finnish & German making are not historical, and it does not seem to bother anyone, add some RCAF Ensign (BTW according to some sites I have found on the net the RCAF Ensign red maple leaf in place of the red dot in the RAF Roundel was seen as early as 1943 ( http://flagspot.net/flags/ca-1921.html ))

or

To add this to the UK squads http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif (the RCAF was its own air force, do not confuse it with the detached Canadians serving in the RAF)


If you can help either reply to this thread or PM me.

Thanks

Koohullin
03-09-2004, 07:09 AM
Do you know what an Ensign is?

This is the RCAF Ensign(flag)

http://www.rcaf.com/resources/clipart/insignia/rcafensign.gif

This is the RAF Ensign(flag)

http://www.rcaf.com/resources/clipart/insignia/rafensign.gif

LuckyBoy1
03-09-2004, 09:43 AM
I didn't know sled dogs knew how to fly! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Solutions for internet security & spyware problems... http://www.geocities.com/callingelvis911/s_s.html

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

MZ6
03-09-2004, 10:32 AM
As a Canadian I don't feel a need to distinquish myself from the UK in the context of this game. The armed forces of the UK during WWII were comprised of all the Commonwealth after all.

JG52_wunsch
03-09-2004, 10:50 AM
grobber i sent you my email addy.let me if you
get it,first time i ve pm ed,since the forum change,so i m not sure i did it right,cheers

Jonny___C
03-09-2004, 03:09 PM
Gunny Bunny, can I have a reference for your "Interesting RCAF facts" please. I'd like to use some of that information but I'd need to know where it came from. Much appreciated if you can help.

GunnyBunny001
03-09-2004, 03:57 PM
DND has emailed me their contact information:

Thank you for writing and visiting the DND/CF website. The Directorate of History and Heritage could be a source of historical information concerning markings used on aircraft during the Second World War. You may also wish to visit the following Web site:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhh/engraph/home_e.asp

All inquiries must be sent in writing, by fax or regular mail, to:

Inquiries Section
Director History and Heritage
National Defence Headquarters
2429 Holly Lane
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0K2
Fax: (613) 990-8579

Email: Information@forces.gc.ca

GunnyBunny001
03-09-2004, 07:24 PM
The following battle sounds like an interesting mission to setup. I had not heard of it before. Has anyone tried it yet :

On March 31, 1945, about 5 weeks before the war ended, RCAF bombers on a daylight mission to Hamburg had the misfortune to run into a force of 30 Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighters. Eight Canadian Lancasters were shot down.

http://www.rcaf.com/6group/March45/Mar3145.htm

Any of you fellows live in Ottawa, ON. ?? Perhaps, we could get a bunch of us together for a drink at the Elephant & Castle in the near future http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cordially,

GB

[This message was edited by GunnyBunny001 on Tue March 09 2004 at 06:36 PM.]

Oso2323
03-09-2004, 07:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
The Directorate of History and Heritage could be a source of historical information concerning markings used on aircraft during the Second World War. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lot of this research has already been done. I strongly suggest reading Robert Bracken's "Spitfire: the canadians" and "Spitfire II." Your public library probably has a copy. I know that Toronto, London, Ottawa and Windsor have it in their collections.

Jonny___C
03-09-2004, 08:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
The following battle sounds like an interesting mission to setup. I had not heard of it before. Has anyone tried it yet :

_On March 31, 1945, about 5 weeks before the war ended, RCAF bombers on a daylight mission to Hamburg had the misfortune to run into a force of 30 Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighters. Eight Canadian Lancasters were shot down_ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I think you got that quote from my site, but thanks for the link to the details, which I hadn't seen before. I'll have to change it to "Eight Canadian Lancasters and Halifaxes were shot down."

GunnyBunny001
03-10-2004, 03:32 AM
Hello fellows http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I got the following private message from Thunak:

---
Thunak
UK Community Manager
posted Mon March 08 2004 03:16 AM

I have forwarded your request to the dev team and I'm sure they will take it into account in future updates.

T
---

Hopefully, this means that CANADA will be added as a separate country with it's own Squadrons and colours/markings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Koohullin
03-10-2004, 04:12 AM
Don't get too excited Bunny. It has already been done. This was posted on the SimHQ forum from the netwing site.

"Sorry for not talking for such a while. Bit flat tack there for a bit.

Anyway, first off, thanks to everyone who added in their info.

I am like so many others I guess, waiting for word from Oleg.

In the meantime, given he must be close to if not already past the cutoff date, here is information on what went to him/should be in.

Oleg requested I do the Spitfire Vb and Hurricane Squadrons for the RAF. No specific theatres were specified HOWEVER I'm guessing he meant only Northern Europe (ie not Southern France/Italy/Med, and definitely not Africa, Middle East or the Far East).

Spitfire Mk Vb - UK Squadrons:
19, 26, 41, 54, 63, 64, 65, 66, 71, 72, 74, 81, 91, 92, 93
111, 118, 121, 122, 123, 124, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 145, 152, 154, 164, 165, 167, 186, 222, 232, 234, 242, 243, 257, 266, 275, 276, 277, 278, 287, 290, 302, 303, 306, 308, 310, 312, 313, 315, 316, 317, 322, 329, 331, 332, 340, 341, 345, 349, 350, 401, 402, 403, 411, 412, 416, 417, 421, 452, 453, 457, 485, 501, 504, 521, 527, 541, 595, 601, 602, 603, 609, 610, 611, 616 and 695 Squadrons. Yes, and that's just UK-Based Spitfire Vb's!!

Hurricane MkI - UK Squadrons:
1, 1(RCAF), 3, 17, 32, 43, 46, 56, 71, 73, 79, 85, 87, 96, 98, 111, 116, 121, 145, 151, 181, 182, 213, 225, 229, 232, 238, 239, 242, 245, 247, 249, 253, 255, 256, 257, 258, 260, 263, 286, 288, 289, 302, 303, 306, 308, 310, 312, 315, 316, 317, 318, 331, 402, 501, 504, 527, 601, 605, 607, 610, 615 and 691 Squadron.

Hurricane MkIIB - UK Squadrons:
1, 3, 17, 32, 43, 56, 79, 121, 133, 134, 136, 151, 174, 175, 232, 242, 245, 247, 253, 256, 257, 287, 302, 312, 316, 317, 331, 401, 402, 486, 504, 516, 527, 532, 534, 601, 605, 607 and 615 Squadron.

Hurricane MkIIC - UK Squadrons:
1, 3, 32, 43, 63, 87, 96, 225, 239, 247, 253, 257, 279, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 309, 516, 521, 530, 531, 532, 533, 534, 535, 536, 537, 538, 539, 577, 587, 595, 598, 615, 631, 667, 679, 691, and 695 Squadrons.

--------------
That's all he asked for, but it's not all he got

I've also sent him the squadron files for those a/c above in the rest of the war in the Middle East, Far East and USSR theatres.

Plus, before anyone despairs, he also got the stuff for the following:

- Spitfires Mk I, IX & XIV
- Blenheims Mk I & Mk IV
- Whirlwinds
- Buffaloes (only operationally used in FE though)
- Beaufighters - Mk I, II, VI, X & XI (the XXI is Australian).
- Gladiators - Mk I, II and Sea Gladiators with the RAF.
- Tempests - Mk V
- Typhoons - Mk IA & IB
- Dakotas - Mk I, II, III (C-47A), IV (C-47B) and impressed DC-3's.
- Kittyhawks - Mk I (P-40E) & III (P-40M)
- Mitchells - Mk II (B-25C/D) & III (B-25J)
- Thunderbolts - Mk I (early razorback D's) and II (bubble-top D's) all Far East though)
& of course - Mustangs - Mk III (P-51B/C) and IV (D/K).

And if he wants it there is more waiting:
- Catalina
- Havoc/Boston
- Hawk 75
- Tomahawk/P-40B
- Fortress
- Lancaster

Most of the latter are waiting on what Oleg tells me in reply.

------------
Note that the list above doesn't include OTU's, which is a point I am awaiting his confirmation on, but it does include some odd squadrons (Meteorological, Air-Sea Rescue, Anti-Air Co-Op, Radar Calibration, and in the IIC's case the 530-539 Squadrons used for the Turbinlite work (basically Havocs with searchlights in the nose which illuminated bombers and allowed Hurricanes to make the kill!!)).

The whole list is highly subjective by such things as:
- Timescale (if Oleg makes it D-Day to the end of the war) it would make about 60-70% of what I did worthless (including almost everything he ASKED for).
and theatres:
- If he only does Northern Europe (for the whole war (39-45), then about half of what was done is junked.
- If he does only D-Day to VE-Day AND only Northern Europe, then kiss goodbye to about 70-75% of the work done.

But the main thing is it leaves the work done and his options open if, as Gibbage noted, they do really well from the expansion and make another (especially in another theatre) so they can quickly go on and make that too before BOB.

I could only put guesses in, but the fact he asked for RAF Squadron data for those a/c (Spitfire Vb and Hurricanes which effectively means 1939-43) is quite interesting. But certainly if it is only say 1944-45 Europe that he does then the Hurricanes will be VERY LIMITED in appearance (about two squadrons IIRC), and the Spitfire V's still in use would be Vc's in the ME (which can't really be done as their are no Vokes filters on the Spits and Hurris, which required them in the USSR, Med/ME and FE theatres.

We shall see I guess, but hopefully the work should appear in the expansion and if not in that then in an addon patch to the expansion. Who knows, maybe it was to get an early heads-up on BOB. But whatever happens, there is no reason why we shouldn't see more than the current amount of RAF Squadrons in the addon, so the RAF and Commonwealth are going to get a serious boost at least."


It would seem that there was the intention to add more squadrons to the RAF list but it looks like the info arrived too late or Oleg did not have time to include them, so they were not added.

GunnyBunny001
03-10-2004, 04:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:
I am like so many others I guess, waiting for word from Oleg.

Most of the latter are waiting on what Oleg tells me in reply.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are u stating that Maddox ( Oleg ) are writing another expansion pack to Forgotten Battles ?

And he has asked u to do research and u have no idea what time period he is doing ????

Sounds like u are being taken advantage of http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Koohullin
03-10-2004, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:
I am like so many others I guess, waiting for word from Oleg.

Most of the latter are waiting on what Oleg tells me in reply.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are u stating that Maddox ( Oleg ) are writing another expansion pack to Forgotten Battles ?

And he has asked u to do research and u have no idea what time period he is doing ????

Sounds like u are being taken advantage of http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you miss the quotation marks? This was a post by Owl. Go to Netwings and look for a post by Jonny_C for the whole thread. Did Jonny_C mention that this work was being done in this thread?

Selective reading I see, so since you missed the first tim:

"In the meantime, given he must be close to if not already past the cutoff date, here is information on what went to him/should be in."

There is a patch coming for AEP and there is the new BoB sim he is working on, both of which will find the info useful. We do not know what other theaters Maddox Games/1C will give us in the future, for which this info, again, will be useful.


As for Canadian squadrons, just like other squadrons, regiments, Gruppes now, if there was unit ID markings, they will be add to the a/c when the unit is picked.

Jonny__C
03-10-2004, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Did Jonny_C mention that this work was being done in this thread?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I was going to, like I did at Sim HQ, but I think I got a little distracted by "Arcadeace".

Anyway it looks like a lot of the leg-work was done. It would be nice to hear from 1C:Maddox why it wasn't included, and whether it will be included in a future update.

There are two reasons why at the very least a Canadian squadron or two should be included. There is a large user-base of IL2/FB fans in Canada, and historically any expansion that gets into Commonwealth and other squadrons flying from Britain should certainly include Canada.

Good business move, good historical move. I can't see why it hasn't been done already, and I hope it WILL be done soon.

Jonny__C
03-10-2004, 06:29 AM
Thanks for that link, Gunny Bunny.

I updated my site to include mention of the Halifaxes, and I included the link.

http://www.nt.net/toby/ww2.html

The reports make very interesting reading. We often consider the Luftwaffe "out of it" by the last few weeks of the war. That was true in a general sense, but it certainly wasn't so when stiff temporary resistance was thrown up.

Imagine what many squadrons of Me-262s would have done if they had started to be available early in 1944, as they could have been.

jensenpark
03-10-2004, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny__C:
Thanks for that link, Gunny Bunny.

I updated my site to include mention of the Halifaxes, and I included the link.

http://www.nt.net/toby/ww2.html

The reports make very interesting reading. We often consider the Luftwaffe "out of it" by the last few weeks of the war. That was true in a general sense, but it certainly wasn't so when stiff temporary resistance was thrown up.

Imagine what many squadrons of Me-262s would have done if they had started to be available early in 1944, as they could have been.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe it would have simply meant a faster change of tactics on the allies part to go after their air bases...swarm the 262 bases with the '47's and '51's waiting for them to land and take off...?

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

FbusterMk3
03-10-2004, 11:14 AM
Considering Lois Mountbatten was responsible for wasting 6000 Canadian lives at Dieppe....
Canadians have the right to be properly represented :|

Oso2323
03-10-2004, 11:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
maybe it would have simply meant a faster change of tactics on the allies part to go after their air bases...swarm the 262 bases with the '47's and '51's waiting for them to land and take off...?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read Pierre Clostermann's the Big Show. The Tempest Squadrons were used for this very task and were cut to shreds by flak (i.e. 6 of 8 planes shot down on one disasterous mission). I was shocked to read of how high the losses were in 1945.

An interesting 'what if' scenario would be if bomber command abandoned "city busting" and went after flak emplacements and airfields.

But hey...this is supposed to be about Canadian squadrons. Capt FlushGarden has released an improved default skin. A few "YO," "AE" and "DN" codes and away we go!

Oso2323
03-10-2004, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FbusterMk3:
Considering Lois Mountbatten was responsible for wasting 6000 Canadian lives at Dieppe....
Canadians have the right to be properly represented :|<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She must have been something.

I'm sorry...that was cheap. But then I'm cheap.

FbusterMk3
03-10-2004, 12:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oso2323:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FbusterMk3:
Considering Lois Mountbatten was responsible for wasting 6000 Canadian lives at Dieppe....
Canadians have the right to be properly represented :|<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She must have been something.

It's not funny... really!
I'm sorry...that was cheap. But then I'm cheap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry, this is a mess - got to stop drin(
hic) king...

GunnyBunny001
03-10-2004, 06:48 PM
Quotes from the book:

RCAF SQUADRONS AND AIRCRAFT
by S. Kostenuk and J. Griffin
ISBN 0-88866-577-6
---

The total number of RCAF squadrons that served overseas was 48, of which 15 were bomber, 11 day-fighter, 3 fighter-bomber, 3 fighter reconniassance, 3 night-fighter, 1 intruder, 6 coastal, 3 transport and 3 AOP.

The RCAF squadrons operated as part of RAF wins until the spring of 1941, when, as battle-proven RCAF leaders became available, all-Canadian RCAF fighter wings emerged having georgrapical names.

The first was the Canadian Digby Wing, formed on 14 April, 1941. It was initially composed of 401 and 402 Squadrons, with Hurricane aircraft. On this date, RAF Station Digby and it's satellite aerodrome at Wellingore were transferred to the RCAF and became RCAF staton Digby. It was here that all subsequent RCAF day-fighter squadrons were formed and received their operational training in squadron and wing tactics.

The second and most outstanding RCAF wing was the Canadian Kenley Wing formed on 25 November 1942 when Squadron Leader J.C. Fee, commanding 412 Squadron, was promoted so succeed Wing Commander C.B. Kingcombe ( RAF ), composed of four squadrons. Although RAF Station Kenley and this satelite aerodrome at Redhill had been manned by RCAF day-fighter squadrons since 2 November, it was not considered an all-Canadian wing until the appointment of a Canadian WCF. Similarly, on 22 January 1943, Redhill became an RCAF station with D/C W.R. MacBrien as station commander.

In discussion between Canadian and British officials during the summer of 1941 on the question of forming Canadian groups and stations in the UK, it was agreed in principle to form a Canadian bomber group. This agreement was formalized in the early summer of 1942 with the understanding that the group would be assembled as soon as enough RCAF bomber squadrons were available.

No. 6 RCAF Group, assumed operational status as at 0001 hours on 1 January, 1943. It then consisted of six RCAF bomber squadrons located at four stations: Croft #427, Dalton #428, Dishforth #425, #426 and Middleton St. George #419, #420. Leeming with #408 joined the group on 2 January and Topcliffe with #424 on the 3rd. By the end of the war the group was to grow to 14 squadrons at eight stations.

A summary of the work performed by squadrons at home and overseas is but one part of the story of the RCAF's contribution in the Second World War. The other part of the story concerns the 249,662 men and women who wore the uniform of the RCAF. Of this total, 93,844 personnel served overseas, the majority with British rather than with Canadian units. A report, dated 8 August 1944, stated that of the 27,104 RCAF aircrew then serving overseas, nearly 60 percent were in RAF squadrons - 17,111 as compared to 9,993. Throughout the war, the Canadian contribution to the RAF was significant. At least one in four fighter pilots in the Battle of Malta came from Canada, as did one-fifth of Coastal Command's aircrew. At the end of the war, almost a quarter of Bomber commmand's aircrew were from the RCAF - approx. 1,250 pilots, 1,300 navigators, 1,000 air bombers, 1,600 air gunners and 750 wireless operators and these figues excluded those serving in No. 6 RCAF Group.

Recognition of the services performed by the RCAF is to be found in the list of honours and awards conferred upon it personnel. More than 8,000 officers, airmen and airwomen received decorations from the British and Allied governments including two VCs and four George Crosses.

The RCAFs Roll of Hounour contains the names of 17,100 personnel who gave their lives in the service of Canada. Of these fatalities, 14,544 occured overseas - among them 12,266 on operations and 1,906 in training accidents. The major overseas casualties were within Bomber Command; a total of 9,980 - 8,240 of which were on operations.

One of the greatest problems with these squadrons was getting the RAF to "Canadianize" them. By the end of 1941, 18 had been formed and of their 1,037 aircrew only 499 were RCAF, although 8,959 Canadian graduates of the BCATP had been sent to the UK. The aircrew of the single-engine fighter squadrons were almost entirely Canadian; the difficulty was with the multi-engine units. The problem appeared to be that sufficient facilities were not available to establish operational training units on a national basis. It was not until Canada assumed full financial responsibility for its overseas formation, early in 1943, that Canadianization progressed satisfactorily.

Oso2323
03-10-2004, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
One of the greatest problems with these squadrons was getting the RAF to "Canadianize" them. By the end of 1941, 18 had been formed and of their 1,037 aircrew only 499 were RCAF, although 8,959 Canadian graduates of the BCATP had been sent to the UK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great quote. BTW, the Brits thought that multicultural (aka "mixed") squadrons operated better than single those comprised of a single nationality. Thats kind of heartening in a way.

As to my earlier claim (or was that another thread?) about the Canadians and strict discipline: "My Canadians, contrary to popular belief, were first-class disciplinarians in the air - very good indeed." - Johnnie Johnson.

I've read comments about strict discipline from Cdn pilots who came back from the Med (Headley Everard, IF "Hap" Kennedy, and Bill Olmstead). And don't forget Screwball Beurling's less than glorious 2nd tour.... (although he was probably an exception in so many different ways)

Jonny__C
03-11-2004, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"My Canadians, contrary to popular belief, were first-class disciplinarians in the air - very good indeed." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The key words here, I think, are "in the air". In other words, disciplined pilots. On the ground things were more relaxed.

Franzen
03-11-2004, 12:53 PM
Quote:4th largest Allied airforce in WW2 - that puts us behind the Brits, USA and USSR - and ahead of the French, Belgians, Poles, Czechs, etc, etc... I think the phrase is "Forgotten Battles."

Ha ha ha, Oso2323 that's a good one.

Of course Canada should be in there. I've often thought it was quite strange that we weren't included in the game. They had no problems including us in the real war from beginning to end.

Fritz

BigBoy01
03-11-2004, 01:10 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Canadians are totally getting short-changed.

Playability of this game just went NILL for me. I don't think I can stand to look at the stupid anti-canadian icon on my desktop./QUOTE]

LOL. I love this, how can you not but vote to agree. I cast a "yes" vote for the guys and gals from north of the border. "Oh, Canada.....".

Oso2323
03-11-2004, 08:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny__C:
The key words here, I think, are "in the air". In other words, disciplined pilots. On the ground things were more relaxed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also read that they had a more formal structure on the ground as well. Again, was this mostly from pilots who had served in the Med and came back for D-Day. I will grant that perhaps we Canucks did not share in the British sense of reserve...but then again, who does?

Jonny___C
03-11-2004, 08:24 PM
That could very well be, Oso. I'm just saying that the Johnnie Johnson quote doesn't substantiate that, since it talks about performance *in the air*.

Oso2323
03-11-2004, 09:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny___C:
That could very well be, Oso. I'm just saying that the Johnnie Johnson quote doesn't substantiate that, since it talks about performance *in the air*.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair enough. Thr books I read that in were written by Headley Everard, IF "Hap" Kennedy, and Bill Olmstead. I don't have them in front of me, so I can't give you direct quotes (which is my favorite part of posting! :-) )

Franzen
03-12-2004, 12:14 AM
Actually I heard that Oleg and the boyz have already bin workin on the RCAF for FB but they got some pilot language issues to deal with, eh. That bites. Ya know what I'm talkin aboat eh. Brutal. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Fritz

GunnyBunny001
03-12-2004, 03:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Actually I heard that Oleg and the boyz have already bin workin on the RCAF for FB but they got some pilot language issues to deal with, eh. That bites. Ya know what I'm talkin aboat eh. Brutal. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Fritz<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Franzen,

Where did u hear this ?

And what are u talking about ??

GunnyBunny001
03-12-2004, 03:35 AM
I sent a Private Topic to Oleg Maddox, below is the question I asked and his response:

Oleg_Maddox
VIP
posted Thu March 11 2004 06:16 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:

Hello,

Further to the POLL question on the General Discussion webboard to create a patch to add CANADA as a separate country with it's own squadrons, in AEP:

Do u plan on doing this ?

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=563104162&p=1

Cordially,

GB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oleg Response:

Sorry I don't know if we will have a time for this. Really don't know. Please don't think that separate country is easy to add.

Oleg

Oso2323
03-12-2004, 09:13 AM
Perhaps you should ask him if he'll consider RCAF squadrons under the GB folder. Of course that pretty much limits us to the GB speech pack - unless we do our own!

Oh, and an RAF/RCAF LF.ixc with the round rudder would be appreciated (We didn't really use a lot of the pointy tail ones!)

Koohullin
03-12-2004, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oso2323:
Perhaps you should ask him if he'll consider RCAF squadrons under the GB folder. Of course that pretty much limits us to the GB speech pack - unless we do our own!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where else would they go? That is where the other nationality squadrons were put. Why did he have Owl do all that work if he was not going to include 400 series squadron?

GunnyBunny001
03-12-2004, 01:36 PM
Noted below; I sent Oleg a follow-up private topic and he responded:

----
Oleg_Maddox
VIP
posted Fri March 12 2004 06:28 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:

Hello,

Thank you for your timely response to my questions.

Are you planning to add CANADA (RCAF) to your Battle of Britain software program that we have heard about at the Webboard ?

In addition, is there something we many Canadians that own FB can do to help you, such as squadron information or other such things ?

Please see the POLL thread, there is allot of information and URLs there for this information, which would aid your and your development team.

Cordially,

GB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oleg's response:

In BoB 100% Canadians will be present.

jensenpark
03-12-2004, 01:53 PM
"Oleg's response:

In BoB 100% Canadians will be present."

Okay, I've just justified why I am going to need a new computer in 2005!

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

GunnyBunny001
03-12-2004, 04:11 PM
My question is what does:

"In BoB 100% Canadians will be present"

Does this mean RCAF squadrons will be lumped under UK ? Again ?

Of will there be a separate country listing ?

Even better would be to use:

RCAF
RAF
USAAF
etc.

To avoid all these problems again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Comments welcome !

jensenpark
03-12-2004, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
My question is what does:

"In BoB 100% Canadians will be present"

Does this mean RCAF squadrons will be lumped under UK ? Again ?

Of will there be a separate country listing ?

Even better would be to use:

RCAF
RAF
USAAF
etc.

To avoid all these problems again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Comments welcome !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plus for campaigns for Commonwealth pilots you should have to start in Gimli or Borden training with the BCATP!

http://www.nt.net/toby/stamph.jpg

tfu_iain1
03-12-2004, 05:45 PM
surely that would have been a republican pilot in the spanish civil war, or a polish pilot?

MandMs
03-12-2004, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:


Plus for campaigns for Commonwealth pilots you should have to start in Gimli or Borden training with the BCATP!


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not just CW. The BCATP trained 17,796 RAF/FAA pilots. Total RAF/FAA aircrew trained was 42,110.

There was 32 EFT and 29 SFT Schools.

jenson, read Wings for Victory by Spencer Dunmore, ISBN 0-7710-2918-7, if you have not done so already. Aylmer PQ had #14 STFS until Aug. 1944 when it was moved to Kingston.


M&Ms
I eat the red ones last.

Oso2323
03-12-2004, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Koohullin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oso2323:
Of course that pretty much limits us to the GB speech pack - unless we do our own!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Where else would they go? That is where the other nationality squadrons were put.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Where else would they go? In a discrete little folder entitled "Ca." BTW, notice how the Normadie-Nieman "nationality squadron" is under France? (Although, the new RAF Polish squadrons, which include Polish speech packs are not...hmmmm). Whatever, as long we get included.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Okay, I've just justified why I am going to need a new computer in 2005!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally, it was the idea that the Spitfire pit might look as good as the Gladiator pit that did it for me.

Jonny___C
03-12-2004, 07:31 PM
Keep in mind that Battle of Britain is historically very limited in time span - early July to the end of October 1940. You won't see a large number of Canadian squadrons (actuallly only one - No.1 RCAF, flying Hurricanes) and you will see the American "Eagle" squadrons (all two of them) NOT AT ALL because they weren't operational during the Battle of Britain time frame.

Many Canadians flew with the RAF in the battle, but there was only one distinct Canadian squadron.

A lot depends on how Maddox BoB defines the battle. If the time frame is strictly historical, then 100% Canadian participation will mean (count 'em) ONE squadron.

Still, that's better than what we have in AEP! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jonny___C
03-12-2004, 08:39 PM
Jensenpark, please use my Hurricane stamp image as much as you like, but link it from your own site. Thanks.

Franzen
03-12-2004, 09:31 PM
Gunny Bunny, my post was a joke about my Canadian accent. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Fritz

jensenpark
03-13-2004, 05:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny___C:
Jensenpark, please use my Hurricane stamp image as much as you like, but link it from your own site. Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JC: sorry, didn't think it was linked to your personal site...when linking, I recall (with faulty memory I will admit) from a large heritage/history site. Removed for now...

GunnyBunny001
03-13-2004, 08:20 AM
I find it sad and disturbing about the many incorrect, misleading, spurious, frivolous and vexatious postings made about Canadian history. Even when the correct evidence is provided not one of the people that made the original posts has returned to acknowledge their posting was wrong or to thank others for enlightening them about the truth of Canadian history and contributions made on the world stage, in particular the war effort. In addition, I find the lack of Canadian historical accuracy by posters that claim to be Canadians quite disturbing. It seems their is an element of 'Canadian-self-loathing' in our society, causing the belittlement of Canada's war effort contribution. I have read in books the misconceptions of the Canadian war effort, but until I actually witnessed on this thread 'in modern times' I had trouble realizing the magnitude of the problem.

To you people who posted on this thread, in particular the Canadians, stating the sovereign country of CANADA fought under the British flag, under the orders of the British government under the control of the British military should now post an apology to the those great CANADIANS that fought and died for CANADA.

The author of the FB software,"Oleg" states, he does not have the time to modify FB to correct the mistake his software company has made. SHAME SHAME SHAME

Lest we forget those:

"Many Thousands Of Canadians That Gave Up Their Precious Tomorrows So We May Have Our Todays".


In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

---------------------
The name of John McCrae (1872-1918) is the best known author of any war, his poem "In Flanders Fields" is recited more than any other during Rememberance day ceremonies around the world. He was a Canadian physician and fought on the Western Front in 1914, but was then transferred to the medical corps and assigned to a hospital in France. He died of pneumonia while on active duty in 1918. His volume of poetry, 'In Flanders Fields and Other Poems', was published in 1919.

[This message was edited by GunnyBunny001 on Sat March 13 2004 at 07:32 AM.]

Oso2323
03-13-2004, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonny___C:
A lot depends on how _Maddox BoB_ defines the battle. If the time frame is strictly historical, then 100% Canadian participation will mean (count 'em) _ONE_ squadron.

Still, that's better than what we have in AEP! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure about the chronology of events, but I think you're forgetting the RAF's 242(Canadian) squadron, which fought in the BoF and the BoB. They were led by a shy young man by the name of Bader.

I find it kind of ironic actually: we're getting our recognition for a period where we had maybe 2 squadrons, but none for the 1941-45 period when we were the 4th largest allied airforce.

GunnyBunny001
03-13-2004, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oso2323:

I find it kind of ironic actually: we're getting our recognition for a period where we had maybe 2 squadrons, but none for the 1941-45 period when we were the 4th largest allied airforce.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OLEGs statement about Canadians and BoB:

"In BoB 100% Canadians will be present"

does not mean CANADA will be represented as a separate country. It could mean the RCAF squadrons will be in the game, but continue to be under the United Kingdom selection.

I forwarded him a Private Topic for clarification, but now some two days later he still has not responded. His silence is deafening and tells me they are not going to have CANADA as a separate country !

jensenpark
03-13-2004, 09:44 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:
I find it sad and disturbing about the many incorrect, misleading, spurious, frivolous and vexatious postings made about Canadian history. Even when the correct evidence is provided not one of the people that made the original posts has returned to acknowledge their posting was wrong or to thank others for enlightening them about the truth of Canadian history and contributions made on the world stage, in particular the war effort. In addition, I find the lack of Canadian historical accuracy by posters that claim to be Canadians quite disturbing. It seems their is an element of 'Canadian-self-loathing' in our society, causing the belittlement of Canada's war effort contribution. I have read in books the misconceptions of the Canadian war effort, but until I actually witnessed on this thread 'in modern times' I had trouble realizing the magnitude of the problem.

To you people who posted on this thread, in particular the Canadians, stating the sovereign country of CANADA fought under the British flag, under the orders of the British government under the control of the British military should now post an apology to the those great CANADIANS that fought and died for CANADA.

The author of the FB software,"Oleg" states, he does not have the time to modify FB to correct the mistake his software company has made. SHAME SHAME SHAME

Hear hear!!

http://www.unicover.com/images/G6A876.JPG

Oso2323
03-13-2004, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The author of the FB software,"Oleg" states, he does not have the time to modify FB to correct the mistake his software company has made. SHAME SHAME SHAME
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps wee should rectify this by making out own campaign and speech-pack. There's plenty of material out there.

Jonny___C
03-13-2004, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oso2323:
I'm not sure about the chronology of events, but I think you're forgetting the RAF's 242(Canadian) squadron, which fought in the BoF and the BoB. They were led by a shy young man by the name of Bader. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand where your impression comes from, Oso, but 242 was an RAF squadron; that's why I didn't include it.

It would, however, be nice to see 242 (Canadian) also represented.

Mysterygunner
04-12-2004, 05:24 PM
Being British I was always very annoyed how Canada and Australia did not have markings and squadrons added to the Sturmovik set up screen.

Firstly, many IL-2 players are from these countries and secondly both airforces played a considerable, yet unglorified part in air combat during WW2.

BigPic
09-15-2007, 11:10 AM
Canada Added. Lets see, in bomber alone 1 in 4 were Canadian. About 100 Canadians flew in the Battle of Briton. We also had out own Bomber Sqauderns and the list goes on. Duhhh Yes The Canadians should bew added

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2007, 11:36 AM
This thread was three years old

jensenpark
09-15-2007, 11:41 AM
I know...had to check the date a couple of times.

Tried to vote again and the bloody thing still remembered I had voted 3 years back.

KG66_Gog
09-16-2007, 02:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oso2323:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Canadians are totally getting short-changed.

Playability of this game just went NILL for me. I don't think I can stand to look at the stupid anti-canadian icon on my desktop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

4th largest Allied airforce in WW2 - that puts us behind the Brits, USA and USSR - and ahead of the French, Belgians, Poles, Czechs, etc, etc... I think the phrase is "Forgotten Battles." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think you might need to go and do your homework on this claim.

The 4th largest Airforce in 1945 was.....the RAAF!

MrMojok
09-16-2007, 04:04 AM
hmmm... it seems that not only did the Canadians not get their wish, but most of the people that posted in this thread back then have *COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED* from the forums!

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-16-2007, 04:12 AM
Wheren't Canadian markings completly Identical to british markings?

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-16-2007, 04:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Wheren't Canadian markings completly Identical to british markings? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until 1946, yes.

Johnny Johnson proudly sported a maple leaf, in honour of the Canadians he commanded.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/WingLeader.jpg

danjama
09-16-2007, 04:49 AM
i hate people that moan when a thread is old and been dragged up

if you made a fresh topic on it they would be the same people moaning not to start new topics on dead horses, and to search the forum first etc

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2007, 05:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
i hate people that moan when a thread is old and been dragged up

if you made a fresh topic on it they would be the same people moaning not to start new topics on dead horses, and to search the forum first etc

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mentioned it was three years old. I was the one who said that, and that was ALL I said.

I didn't moan or complain, I pointed it out. Nobody here is making fun of Bigpic, who revived the thread. It may interest you to consider that just maybe I was giving a warning about how he might get very few replies from the people who were discussing this three years ago, danjama. If you'd pull your finger out and actually bother to look at what you're moaning about, you'd see that his reply is not to anyone specific, it's just out there, as if the discussion were fresh and actively discussed.

Is that alright with you? May I post when I like it, now that you've made your judgments? Can I get your permission to continue posting now, or do I need to perform a penance?

So you hate me, eh? Good. I wonder if you'd care to PM me so you can learn my opinion of you

Skunk_438RCAF
09-16-2007, 06:01 AM
I actually went through the 11 pages of posts in here, and man am I ever amazed at the amount of ignorance found in most of the posts.

turnipkiller
09-16-2007, 07:00 AM
Me too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

tagTaken2
09-16-2007, 07:18 AM
Moving along...

God, the spit is a beautiful plane (Johnson's, above). Even if you've seen a million pictures, it can still leap out and make you sigh.

Freelancer-1
09-16-2007, 09:39 AM
Spitfire Mk IXe

Canadian 411 squadron

F/L J.J. Boyle, pilot

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/FB%20Screens/il2fb-2007-06-20-22-10-52-3.jpg

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-16-2007, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Wheren't Canadian markings completly Identical to british markings? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until 1946, yes.

Johnny Johnson proudly sported a maple leaf, in honour of the Canadians he commanded.

http: //i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/WingLeader.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So... in WWII the Canadian markings where similar to the british ones, why add the same markings twice to the menu?

Luckily, we got Dutch markings. At the start of WWII in europe, Dutch aircraft flew with the inverted orange triangle. The war was over for Holland in five days. The same markings where also used in the Dutch East Indies. But since the orange triangle could be mistaken for the Japanese red circle, they painted they replaced it with the Dutch flag. The war in the Dutch east indies lasted a lot longer and many other aircraft flew with the Dutch flags as national markings through-out the war. So historically, the Dutch flag should've been included in Il-2, not the inverted triangle.

But do we complain?

No. Luckily, we got Il-2 mat manager to take care of that. It has the power to solve your problem as well. You can replace any nations markings with your own via this programm.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-16-2007, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So... in WWII the Canadian markings where similar to the british ones, why add the same markings twice to the menu? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a North American voice in the default British voices, maybe a representative from Canada, but for a pure Canadian experience, I suggest a 'quick fix' would be a Canadian voice pack recorded by some bold and willing Canucks, using their own period slang and accents, rather than unauthentic Maple leaf roundels....it would be fairly easy to find out Canadian squadron codes to adorn the aircraft. Good idea, eh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Feathered_IV
09-17-2007, 03:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So... in WWII the Canadian markings where similar to the british ones, why add the same markings twice to the menu? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a North American voice in the default British voices, maybe a representative from Canada, but for a pure Canadian experience, I suggest a 'quick fix' would be a Canadian voice pack recorded by some bold and willing Canucks, using their own period slang and accents, rather than unauthentic Maple leaf roundels....it would be fairly easy to find out Canadian squadron codes to adorn the aircraft. Good idea, eh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As always, I'll be happy to assist in the editing process if anyone wants to step up to the challenge http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Skunk_438RCAF
09-17-2007, 08:21 AM
Since I can imitate practically any accent, I can do some french canadians...there were a quite a few of them(One even commanded an RAF Typhoon squadron) it would add to the diversity.

mortoma
09-20-2007, 07:23 PM
Are you talking a Dgen dynamic campaign for Canada or just some pilots and markings?? This was not made clear.

BigPic
11-17-2007, 08:29 PM
WOW! I din't know that this was three years old. So Canadians can go over there and fight and die for your freedom, mmm, But we can't be in the games. Maybe the next time you Europeans start a war leave us Canadians out of it. *******s

Canuck

jensenpark
11-17-2007, 08:53 PM
ok, I'm as proud as any Canadian out there on our contribution - but I assume BigPic you are just planning on starting a flame war - so I would ask fellow Ubizoo'ers to ignore this bait...

BigPic
11-17-2007, 09:00 PM
Yup Your Right mmm, http://www.k12.nf.ca/stmarks/grassroots/2001-02/research/wwii/index.htm

Tab_Flettner
11-17-2007, 11:29 PM
Of course Canada should be represented in game. Flying Lancasters, Stirlings et al.

Pirschjaeger
11-18-2007, 09:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigPic:
WOW! I din't know that this was three years old. So Canadians can go over there and fight and die for your freedom, mmm, But we can't be in the games. Maybe the next time you Europeans start a war leave us Canadians out of it. *******s

Canuck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jensenpark:
ok, I'm as proud as any Canadian out there on our contribution - but I assume BigPic you are just planning on starting a flame war - so I would ask fellow Ubizoo'ers to ignore this bait... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Nuff said.

Fritz

Skunk_438RCAF
11-18-2007, 10:30 AM
Well I refuse to read anything about canadian history that has spelling and syntax mistakes. Sorry BigPic.

Oh and BigPic, I think you are missing the BigPic[ture]...you might cry out that it was bad and all that so many canadians lost their lives in WWII, but you should be thankful for what they did, because on June 6th, 1944 they sacrificed their lives so you could have the freedom to write the cr@p you wrote in your above post.

BigPic
11-18-2007, 12:47 PM
Oh Skunky, I know what we did on Juno, Juno was 6 miles wide and our boys went in 8 miles on the first day, in the first hour of battle the Canadians liberated 5 coastal towns alone. The Canadians went inland further than any other nation on that day, Don't worry about the spelling.

http://www.waramps.ca/military/video/wwii/pdf/bokh.pdf

I didn't loose it , I know what my country did, It seems that your the one who is kissing their a=s=s=e=ss. You know the ones who say that Canada did very little or nothing in the wars. Maybe its time you stood up for our vets and fought for them to have a place of honour in these games. It seems to me if more of us Canadians stood together we would have already been added. I am not going to bend over and let them say we wern't there. Learn Your History Canuck http://www.islandnet.com/~jveinot/cghl/military.html (http://www.islandnet.com/%7Ejveinot/cghl/military.html)

Skunk_438RCAF
11-18-2007, 01:09 PM
Kissing whose butt? I'm not following you at all man.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-18-2007, 01:35 PM
[Quote:]
"WOW! I din't know that this was three years old. So Canadians can go over there and fight and die for your freedom, mmm, But we can't be in the games. Maybe the next time you Europeans start a war leave us Canadians out of it. *******s

Canuck"[Quote]


Who here is deriding Canada's contribution to Allied victory? Canadian links and statistics crop up on this forum regularly. Our Canadian members are looked upon as well-informed and possessing a sense of humour that saw their recent ancsestors through hard times.
You seem hell-bent on undoing that reputation.

A solution to Canadian representation in the game has been offered (indeed it could be claimed that Canadian squadrons were never ignored in the first place), and perhaps the first faltering steps have been taken to enabling Canadians to play as Canadians. Again, you seem hell-bent on detracting from that.

This forum has a reputation in certain circles (often undeserved) for confrontation, juvenile reactions and an entrenched attitude to debate and new information. I have to say you are doing nothing to sway those opinions.

European

BigPic
11-18-2007, 02:04 PM
Who here is deriding Canada's contribution to Allied victory? Canadian links and statistics crop up on this forum regularly. Our Canadian members are looked upon as well-informed and possessing a sense of humour that saw their recent ancsestors through hard times.
You seem hell-bent on undoing that reputation
Ya right

Well, take the time and read all these post. I can see many of you not wanting the Canadians in the game. It seems to me that the Canadians will never be added because of your baloney. You can even check out the game Call of Duty 2, I know it was the Canadians that took Cean but in there they have the Brits and Americans taking Cean. All they have to do in this game to add the Canadians is add our squardrons numbers, But like I said I can read too and for the most part you people from other countries say that Canadians did nothing. So my answer to that is fight your own wars. "We Can Fight and Die For your Freedom But We Can't Play In Your Games" Nice

Canuck

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-18-2007, 02:15 PM
You can take that argument to the Call of Duty forums. I'm done here with your whining. Have a nice day.

BigPic
11-18-2007, 02:19 PM
Good! I didn't much like talking to you anyway

Canuck

Daiichidoku
11-18-2007, 02:41 PM
he said the "C" word! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif



really tho

a lot of older ppl send young ppl to die for thier arguments with each other

does it matter what country they are from?

stupidity

Daiichidoku
11-18-2007, 02:42 PM
but it would be nice to have every marking applicable available to each type in game

"historical accuracy"

Skunk_438RCAF
11-18-2007, 06:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can see many of you not wanting the Canadians in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, some of the people who said that posted that 3 whole years ago. Some of these people dont even post here anymore.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">All they have to do in this game to add the Canadians is add our squardrons numbers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After they do that, will you whine to get Lancasters, Wellingtons, Halifax's, Typhoons and other aircraft types that we dont have in this game that practically only Canadians flew? I mean, whats the point of having the squadron numbers if you dont have the aircraft that those squadrons flew? You can even take a look at the squadron list again, a lot of the british RAF squadrons still arent in the game...but you dont see them whining and starting flame wars do you?

Radoye1
11-18-2007, 07:13 PM
Don't feed the troll!

Pirschjaeger
11-18-2007, 11:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigPic:

Well, take the time and read all these post. I can see many of you not wanting the Canadians in the game.

Canuck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Put your money where your mouth is. Back it up with some quotes please. I've been here since nearly the beginning and I don't see what you are talking about.

COD2? What the heck does that have to do with this forum?

Like Low Flyer said, the Canadians are welcome and treated well in this forum. Don't go screwing things up for those of us that have earned it.

Fritz

DrHerb
11-19-2007, 10:07 AM
*Stands up and salutes like Ralph Wiggum in the Simpsons, "O-Canadaaaa"*

Seriously that would be awesome if someone put Canadian voices / skins in the game, possibly even missions too

Divine-Wind
11-19-2007, 11:25 AM
Canadian Bacon in 4.09, eh!

BigPic
11-19-2007, 01:45 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aimosika:
No, never heard of Canada anyway. Add Uzbekiztan![/QUOT

Here's one

Skunk_438RCAF
11-19-2007, 01:49 PM
Obviously a joke.

BigPic
11-19-2007, 01:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jonny___C:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by arcadeace:
Your Canadian history lesson has nothing to do with my response to your arrogant ignorance of American culture. Your link hasn't salvaged your image in your endless quest for derogatory American 'comparisons', you don't have the friends here you do at NetWing's Lunatics Lounge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes, Arcadeace. Now I remember. You're the one who got burnt at Netwings. You seem to be a bitter fellow, probably with good reason.

To paraphrase Churchill - "You're a modest man and you have a lot to be modest about." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Your fellow Americans hung you out to dry because they recognized a fool when they saw one. I'm not particularly concerned about your opinions on anything; I've seen enough of you to know that I needn't be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You're in your own world. You can believe anything you want about America. Your statement ain't reality guy, on the contrary...your judgements on our views of the Queen and Canada's relationship with England are a total joke. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can hear violins playing in the background. Did you sneak in a midi file?

I'm more concerned with some of my fellow Canadians who don't seem to know their own history. You're just a temporary distraction. Go ahead big boy - tell me what you know. Give your Google search a workout.

No more olive branch, see? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/QUOT

Here's one more

BigPic
11-19-2007, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skopro_PL:
i can understand that u would like a canadian air force as a seperate country,but the fact is that canada only flew under britains flag in WWII so i have to say the representation u are getting is the proper one according to history...&lt;S&gt; </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heres]'s one with no facts

Skunk_438RCAF
11-19-2007, 01:53 PM
That last one is true. Sort of. Not under a british flag, but under british markings.

Still not getting your point by the way.

na85
11-19-2007, 01:59 PM
RCAF squadrons were formed into/attached to operational RAF units.

RCAF squadrons were given numbers from 400-449 to distinguish them from RAF squadrons.

DuxCorvan
11-19-2007, 02:09 PM
Assume it. Canada was a slave of the Evil Empire. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Mmmm , so you also know French?"
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4615/2632007032619590015doises0.jpg