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View Full Version : A Russian day (yep, yet another Fw190 view thread)

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:45 PM
To add to the magnific refraction thread going on in this forum, which shows that the front view from the FW190 cockpit was not as bad as Il-2/FB portrays, a guy called Duterte made a little test about the forward view in the FW190 . He's written it in spanish, as he is not that good in english, and has asked someone to translate it&post it here. I'll do it for him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

DISCLAIMER: For me the test is perfectly valid, as I can't see any weak point in his argument. But anyway I'm just posting here the translation.

Here it goes:

"How long is a Russian day?

Oleg Maddox has repeated a lot of times that his simulator, Il-2 is the most perfect around, and he has taken in account every detail while creating it. I've read a lot of comments about the possibly incorrect Fw-190 cockpit modelling in the game. The main problem sees to be that the pilot's front view is way less than the real one according to many 190 fanatics.

According to Oleg'swords, the real Fw-190's sight had in account a downward view of 3âÂº, but he modelled it with 4âÂº (maybe to avoid critics from 190 fans?). However, some people has already measured this angle with several tests, and they always find it's less than 2âÂº, in other words, less than Oleg's claimed figures.

Just for the sake of it I've used yet another way to measure this angle; it's done on the grounds that the earth takes 24 minutes in rotating around herself, so creating the sun's movement over the sky at a rate of 1âÂº each four minutes. This movement is modelled in the simulator.

The ideal would be to use a far star (a simple dot in the night sky), and not the sun, but sadly I wasn't able to focus on a star low on the horizon from the sight view in the FW. Anyway, putting the Fw190 heading in a way such that the sun stays tangent to the horizontal line of the sight (fig.1) and measuring the exact time until the sun in tangent to the famous iron bar that messes the 190's forward view (Fig.2) we can measure the exact degrees that the sun has moved along its path.

fig.1

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/inicio.gif

fig2.

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/fin.gif

the time spent between the first snapshot and the second is 13' 57'' exacty. Rounding up to 14' we have:

4 minutes ----- 1 degree
14 minutes ----- X degrees

X= 14 * 1 /4
X= 3'5 degrees.

so in those 14 minutes, the sun has moved 3'5 degrees on the sky.

putting one image over the another (pic.3) I've set a line on the exact sun's path. The lenght of this line represent's those 3'5âÂº. We are interested in how many degrees are from the center of the sight to the bar.

Fig.3:

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/combinacion.gif

the blue line is the diagonal of a 77 x 100 pixel rectangle. Having this data we can find Alpha angle:

Alpha= arctg(100/77)= 52.4 degrees

so, the lenght of the vertical line of the rectangle (the figure we are looking for) will be:

X * Cos(alpha)
3'5 * Cos(52.4) = 2.135 degrees.

Conclusion:

DOWNWARDS VIEW FROM THE CENTER OF THE RETICLE UP TO THE METAL BAR: 2.135 degrees

granted that this method ain't perfect, because it's difficult when the sun is tangent, and many more details, but the rought figures are a good aproximation. The exact calculation has already been made by another ways by other people and seems to be 1.923.

In other words, we are at a disyuntive here. Either Oleg's correct in his affirmation that the figure is 4âÂº, or the sun walks twice as fast in Il-2 than in the real world.

So...does a russian day last for only 12 hours? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As a side note, I've been able to find the way to use the moon in a winter map, and compare the La7 and Fw190A5 in this regard. Again, the measurement aren't more precise than the one with the sun ,this time because the moon moves very fast in the vertical http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

But, as they're done in the same conditions ,we can affirm that the downwards vision from the La7 is TWICE AS BIG as the one from the Fw190's

As the previous measure has given us 2.135 âÂº for the 190A5, the one from the La7 must be around 4.25âÂº, or, according to other people's (more precise) measurements that give 1.923âÂº for the Fw190, the La7 would have around 4âÂº.

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/la7_3a.gif

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/fw190_3a.gif

"

All credit of this work (which I find a very clever way to measure the downwards view from the 190) is for Dutertre.

Any comments will be apreciated http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:45 PM
To add to the magnific refraction thread going on in this forum, which shows that the front view from the FW190 cockpit was not as bad as Il-2/FB portrays, a guy called Duterte made a little test about the forward view in the FW190 . He's written it in spanish, as he is not that good in english, and has asked someone to translate it&post it here. I'll do it for him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

DISCLAIMER: For me the test is perfectly valid, as I can't see any weak point in his argument. But anyway I'm just posting here the translation.

Here it goes:

"How long is a Russian day?

Oleg Maddox has repeated a lot of times that his simulator, Il-2 is the most perfect around, and he has taken in account every detail while creating it. I've read a lot of comments about the possibly incorrect Fw-190 cockpit modelling in the game. The main problem sees to be that the pilot's front view is way less than the real one according to many 190 fanatics.

According to Oleg'swords, the real Fw-190's sight had in account a downward view of 3âÂº, but he modelled it with 4âÂº (maybe to avoid critics from 190 fans?). However, some people has already measured this angle with several tests, and they always find it's less than 2âÂº, in other words, less than Oleg's claimed figures.

Just for the sake of it I've used yet another way to measure this angle; it's done on the grounds that the earth takes 24 minutes in rotating around herself, so creating the sun's movement over the sky at a rate of 1âÂº each four minutes. This movement is modelled in the simulator.

The ideal would be to use a far star (a simple dot in the night sky), and not the sun, but sadly I wasn't able to focus on a star low on the horizon from the sight view in the FW. Anyway, putting the Fw190 heading in a way such that the sun stays tangent to the horizontal line of the sight (fig.1) and measuring the exact time until the sun in tangent to the famous iron bar that messes the 190's forward view (Fig.2) we can measure the exact degrees that the sun has moved along its path.

fig.1

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/inicio.gif

fig2.

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/fin.gif

the time spent between the first snapshot and the second is 13' 57'' exacty. Rounding up to 14' we have:

4 minutes ----- 1 degree
14 minutes ----- X degrees

X= 14 * 1 /4
X= 3'5 degrees.

so in those 14 minutes, the sun has moved 3'5 degrees on the sky.

putting one image over the another (pic.3) I've set a line on the exact sun's path. The lenght of this line represent's those 3'5âÂº. We are interested in how many degrees are from the center of the sight to the bar.

Fig.3:

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/combinacion.gif

the blue line is the diagonal of a 77 x 100 pixel rectangle. Having this data we can find Alpha angle:

Alpha= arctg(100/77)= 52.4 degrees

so, the lenght of the vertical line of the rectangle (the figure we are looking for) will be:

X * Cos(alpha)
3'5 * Cos(52.4) = 2.135 degrees.

Conclusion:

DOWNWARDS VIEW FROM THE CENTER OF THE RETICLE UP TO THE METAL BAR: 2.135 degrees

granted that this method ain't perfect, because it's difficult when the sun is tangent, and many more details, but the rought figures are a good aproximation. The exact calculation has already been made by another ways by other people and seems to be 1.923.

In other words, we are at a disyuntive here. Either Oleg's correct in his affirmation that the figure is 4âÂº, or the sun walks twice as fast in Il-2 than in the real world.

So...does a russian day last for only 12 hours? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As a side note, I've been able to find the way to use the moon in a winter map, and compare the La7 and Fw190A5 in this regard. Again, the measurement aren't more precise than the one with the sun ,this time because the moon moves very fast in the vertical http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

But, as they're done in the same conditions ,we can affirm that the downwards vision from the La7 is TWICE AS BIG as the one from the Fw190's

As the previous measure has given us 2.135 âÂº for the 190A5, the one from the La7 must be around 4.25âÂº, or, according to other people's (more precise) measurements that give 1.923âÂº for the Fw190, the La7 would have around 4âÂº.

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/la7_3a.gif

#imghttp://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/fw190_3a.gif

"

All credit of this work (which I find a very clever way to measure the downwards view from the 190) is for Dutertre.

Any comments will be apreciated http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:51 PM
YAWN...no seriously.

<center>http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/1NewHelos1.gif
<center><font face="verdana" size="1">Whop!-Whop!

&lt;script language='Javascript' src='http://server3002.freeyellow.com/spectre-usa/spectre.js'></script>
&lt;script>newIcon('single','http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/Helos.gif');</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:59 PM
I see the pics in my message perfectly, but someone has warned me that they don't load properly.

so, if the images don't load go to http://www.geocities.com/jg10r_dutertre/dia_ruso.html . The text is in spanish, but the pics are there for you to see it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 04:02 PM
USAFHelos wrote:
- YAWN...no seriously.
-
Yeah, quite, RAMJB please repost this in Olegs FW190 thread, there would be more chance of a response there: