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Snootles
06-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Is the P-70 Havoc being included in the game? More importantly, what about the Gekko or the P-61 Black Widow? I think it is important to include these planes as flyable with accurately working intercept radar (with option in the Difficulty menu to make it an "all-seeing eye" for beginner players). These planes played their roles in the war and it would be just facsinating to experience the early years of such an important technological concept as it was practically applied. Just imagine the tension of trying to pick up an enemy formation in the pitch black of night, hoping you can reach them before they reach their target. Killer.

Snootles
06-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Is the P-70 Havoc being included in the game? More importantly, what about the Gekko or the P-61 Black Widow? I think it is important to include these planes as flyable with accurately working intercept radar (with option in the Difficulty menu to make it an "all-seeing eye" for beginner players). These planes played their roles in the war and it would be just facsinating to experience the early years of such an important technological concept as it was practically applied. Just imagine the tension of trying to pick up an enemy formation in the pitch black of night, hoping you can reach them before they reach their target. Killer.

Yellonet
06-26-2004, 03:48 PM
The P-61 wasn't used in large numbers I believe. Personally I'm opposed to wasting time on such aircraft instead of putting that time to good use.

Regarding radar, I'm not sure that it can be implemented into the code very easily as this game wasn't made for radar equiped planes.


- Yellonet

Fliger747
06-26-2004, 10:21 PM
Airborn intercept radar would be interesting, though the night flying would be demanding! AI was used in both the F4U-2 Corsair and the F6f-N, and also in some of the TBF (Turkeys). Usefull for finding aircraft in the dark, and finding your way back to the boat! As a stalking "game", one to one it would be do-able, but pehaps beyond the scope of this particular issue.

An old Sub sim, Silent Hunter modeled radar pretty well, and being good with it was quite usefull!

Copperhead310th
06-27-2004, 12:53 AM
No the P-61 was used widly in both the pacifc & Europiean theaters by the USAAF. & it was quite effective. I'd LOVE to see this plane in Game.

there were modelers working on those planes.
not sure of the status of the 61. but the A-20 will be in PF. we already have plans for the 549th NFS in PF.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.310thVFS.com)

TimTam27
06-27-2004, 02:43 AM
According to "Moonlight Interceptor" a book devoted to the J1N1 and its career as a night fighter, the Japanese airborne radar as actually supplied was completely useless. The target could be picked out by eye before it registered on the radar. It was usually removed by the aircrew to lighten the aicraft.

Snootles
06-28-2004, 08:59 AM
Oh. Never mind the Gekko then. Seriously though, I still think it would be a really great idea. Notice that the He 111 bomber has a working radar-like screen for showing airfields as you take off and land. Considering that, I don't believe it would be too hard to put radar into the engine, especially given how simple the early sets were.

There was also a two-seat version of the Lightning with radar, the P-38L. Don't know how much combat it saw but could be used in "extended war" scenarios.

Droopsnoot
06-28-2004, 12:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snootles:
Oh. Never mind the Gekko then. Seriously though, I still think it would be a really great idea. Notice that the He 111 bomber has a working radar-like screen for showing airfields as you take off and land. Considering that, I don't believe it would be too hard to put radar into the engine, especially given how simple the early sets were.

There was also a two-seat version of the Lightning with radar, the P-38L. Don't know how much combat it saw but could be used in "extended war" scenarios.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was the Pathfinder Lightning. I have three view plans for it and for the droopsnoot if someone wants to build them.

I_Jg3_BARKHORN
06-28-2004, 01:09 PM
I can not speculate if the code can hadle radar or not. One small prob though. These birds had very poor radar. They were assigned to a patrol area then vectored to target via ground radar, which was much more powerful, and when a contact showed up. The range was less than a 1000 yards in some cases. You could spend hours night flying and seeing nothing. Ground coordiantion would have to implemented as well to make it complete. No pulse doppler radar in that widow lol. If it could be done it would be nice though.
S!

Zyzbot
06-28-2004, 01:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snootles:
Oh. Never mind the Gekko then. Seriously though, I still think it would be a really great idea. Notice that the He 111 bomber has a working radar-like screen for showing airfields as you take off and land. Considering that, I don't believe it would be too hard to put radar into the engine, especially given how simple the early sets were.

There was also a two-seat version of the Lightning with radar, the P-38L. Don't know how much combat it saw but could be used in "extended war" scenarios.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



P-38M diagram


http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/p38-23.jpg

Snootles
06-29-2004, 01:02 PM
Of course the radar was poor. That's the fun of it! Though seriously, it must have done its job well enough. Why else would they have installed in in so many different planes? Pac Fighters should have the P-38M, P-61, F4U-2, F4U-5N, F6F-3E, F6F-3N, and F6F-5N. Of that last type alone rougly 1500 models were produced.

Baco-ECV56
06-29-2004, 01:23 PM
Well I would love to fly the widow, but I radder see a good Ground (or Ship) control radar, that are capable of vectoring you to posible intercepts...

That should be a treat and good test bed for BOB´s british radar network..

PlaneEater
06-29-2004, 01:45 PM
Droop, that's the one my grandpa called the 'Piggyback'. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif He never flew the P-38Ms, but his squadron had one P-38J they'd taken the radio out of and added a second seat to. End result was basically the same. They used it as a liason aircraft for shuttling the unit's intel officers around, and a general squad hack during off hours.

He also told me a funny story about an incident that happened in that plane when he was flying a nurse somewhere. I can type it up from his memoirs and post it if you want. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The P-38M never saw combat action. It did fly wartime missions, but never saw a target.

Before delivery of the P-61s, however, some Pacific nightfighter units used P-38Fs, Gs and Hs with searchlights mounted on them. They weren't very effective, from the research I've done.

Droopsnoot
06-30-2004, 03:42 AM
Thanks, Plane eater!

The Piggy Back was a Fourth experiment along that line. The Pathfinder had a squared off solid nose with the Radar operator's station up front, not behind the pilot.

I'd like to hear that story you mentioned. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think that series of experiments is a fertile area for "what if" exploration, and really different "fun" missions.

Actually, wargaming as it was called then, got its start with "what if" boardgame scenarios in the Military Colleges, as a means of trying different solutions to historical battles.

It is a valid path for Combat Flight Simulations to take as a training situation for staff planners.studying tactics.

I used that approach as a B-47 Flight sim instructor during the cold War in traininfg combat crews, with very rewarding results.

I have a cobbled up Droopsnoot with a jerry built pathfinder scope in it in CFS3 that I find fun to use. I'd like to see something like that in PF.

[This message was edited by Droopsnoot on Wed June 30 2004 at 02:55 AM.]

[This message was edited by Droopsnoot on Wed June 30 2004 at 03:16 AM.]

Vampiric666
06-30-2004, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Regarding radar, I'm not sure that it can be implemented into the code very easily as this game wasn't made for radar equiped planes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Radar thing" is yet in AEP, just look the map with icons.

darkhorizon11
06-30-2004, 09:33 AM
If we see radar at all it probably won't be until BoB. Its my impression that PF is more like an upgraded FB, with a lot of eye candy. Not that this a complaint in any way but I don't think it will be too different.

Personally the planes I would love to see with radar are the 110 and the 262 (though only a few were actually built).