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View Full Version : Oleg, you might as well check the overheating on all planes



blabla0001
03-12-2004, 12:22 PM
I just tested the The Ta152 regarding overheating and it's actually amazing what this plane can do.

It can fly until it runs out of fuel on 99% throttle with the radiator closed.

It only overheats when you engage the booster or fly on 110% for a while and the only thing you have to do is trottle down for a few seconds and the overheat message is gone.

blabla0001
03-12-2004, 12:22 PM
I just tested the The Ta152 regarding overheating and it's actually amazing what this plane can do.

It can fly until it runs out of fuel on 99% throttle with the radiator closed.

It only overheats when you engage the booster or fly on 110% for a while and the only thing you have to do is trottle down for a few seconds and the overheat message is gone.

SeaFireLIV
03-12-2004, 03:21 PM
You got my support Cappadocian, Hang in there!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/storm.jpg
Soon... Very soon....

Hunde_3.JG51
03-12-2004, 03:28 PM
Capp, I think Oleg said something to the effect that between the Dora and Ta-152 one was overheating too fast on auto and one was overheating too slowly. He wouldn't say which. Anyway, this gives an indication that the overheat times for those planes are being examined. I just hope he looks at the La-5's also, is there a reason that they take such a long time to overheat, even with boost on, 110% throttle, and radiator closed. It is just silly. Haven't checked in AEP yet but I will tonight, though I doubt it was changed the La's have always ignored heat for the most part. Spitfire also has overheat issues IMO, but I may be wrong (too long to overheat, too hard to get rid of heat).

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

blabla0001
03-12-2004, 03:34 PM
I think it would be wise to overlook all the planes regarding overheating and engine cooling, as I suggested in the first place.

I bet if we all started testing more planes we will have a longer list then just the Ta, La's and the Spits.

robban75
03-12-2004, 03:39 PM
When doing the climbtests I've noticed that the planes less prone to overheating is the La-7 and La-5. The La-5 didn't overheat at all.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Hunde_3.JG51
03-12-2004, 03:43 PM
I agree Capp, overheat times are one of my major gripes with this sim. The La-5 not overheating is completely wrong IMO and I can't believe it has not been addressed. The La-5 ('42) already has ridiculous speed numbers at sea-level, and with no overheat its even worse.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

Magister__Ludi
03-12-2004, 03:49 PM
Ta-152 could fly at max setting for half and hour, that's in the manual.
If you were talking about all the planes you should have picked Spitfire. Ta-152 is a very poorly choosen example. It really could run forever at the highest settings - for example it could fly at climb and combat setting (military setting) without limit, whereas planes like P-51, P-47, P-40 and others could maintain it for 5 minutes only.

[This message was edited by crazyivan1970 on Tue March 16 2004 at 02:46 PM.]

blabla0001
03-12-2004, 04:27 PM
"If you were talking about all the planes you should have picked Spitfire"

Huck, we already agreed that the Spits needed to be looked at so I see no reason to open another topic about that subject.

"Ta-152 is a very poorly choosen example. It really could run forever at the highest settings - for example it could fly at climb and combat setting (military setting) without limit"

With the cowl flaps closed?

Forever?

Highest settings?

Without limit?

I find that very hard to believe since all piston engines need cooling at some point.

PzKpfw
03-12-2004, 04:53 PM
Considering the poor quality of LW engines componet construction at the end of the war, and poor workmanship from forced labour at the componet factories, I doubt very much any LW fighters engine could run to spec, much less an indefinite run at full power.

Ie, JG 26's operational D-9s were blowing oil lines etc, just running up their engines for takeoff , the lines could not withstand the pressure.

Other componets also let go from stress that never would have occured in 1942 - 1943 due to higher QC standards, and factory acceptance tests, but in mid late 1944 the lack of fuel etc, prevented normal testsing of finished AC so operational units got to do the testing on combat sorties.

Regards, John Waters

---------
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------
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Fillmore
03-12-2004, 06:02 PM
Can't every plane in the game run at 100% with radiator closed and not overheat at 1000m+ and high speed? I don't fly most of them but it seems like that with all the ones I do fly.

p1ngu666
03-12-2004, 08:26 PM
hm someone should test this
anyone got diagrams of its cooling system? it looks different from dora, looks like theres a conical slab there to me tbh

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

mike_espo
03-12-2004, 08:54 PM
fiat g.50 does not seem to overheat with rad closed, full power and 100% pitch.

Fehler
03-13-2004, 12:59 AM
The people in this forum overheat too quickly. I also think their opinions are overmodeled. Can you fix this Oleg? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Seriously, everyone just needs to chill out a little and go have some fun flying!

Capp may be a little biased at times as we all are to some extent, but I dont think he is excessive, and he does bring up good points about both sides' planes.

Why cant people just make counter points with data or respectful posts? Something like, "Capp, according to tech data publication blah blah, the Ta-152 could run at 110 with MW50 for 30 minutes without overheat. Did you test that to see if is can be duplicated in the game? I will also test your concern and see if I get the same results, and maybe we can forward suggestions to Oleg."

Now wouldnt that have been a lot nicer? I often wonder how some of you interact with others in real life. I will say this, if some of you act as childishly as you do in this forum, you must be missing some teeth from eating a few knuckle sandwiches... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Comon folks, we all want as much realism as possible, because that's why we fly IL2 and not CFS or Crimson skies. Always keep this in mind. The guy on the other side of the fense only wants his plane to perform like it did in real life, just like you do... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And guess what, so does Oleg...

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

blabla0001
03-13-2004, 11:26 AM
Yes, I hate to see that the overheat issue is fixed an a few plane types while others are left alone.

It's better to test them all and see what we come up with.

BlitzPig_DDT
03-13-2004, 11:55 AM
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Functio
03-13-2004, 01:07 PM
I tell you what I'd like to see - overcooling. At the moment, planes at higher altitudes don't cool down any faster, nor do you have to make sure that the radiator inlets aren't letting in too much cold air. After all, it is possible for these planes to suffer from this at high altitude. I know this may sound odd. But at the moment the way it works in FB/AEP is not exactly right.

03-13-2004, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Functio:
I tell you what I'd like to see - overcooling. At the moment, planes at higher altitudes don't cool down any faster, nor do you have to make sure that the radiator inlets aren't letting in too much cold air. After all, it is possible for these planes to suffer from this at high altitude. I know this may sound odd. But at the moment the way it works in FB/AEP is not exactly right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Functio is absolutely right. This sim NEEDS overcooling.

blabla0001
03-15-2004, 08:57 AM
Add the Bf109G2 on the list as well.

It can fly on 100% throttle with the radiator fully closed until it runs out of fuel.

[This message was edited by Cappadocian_317 on Mon March 15 2004 at 08:21 AM.]

blabla0001
03-15-2004, 09:39 AM
Add FW109A5 to the list as well.

100% throttle with auto pitch and it can run with the radiator closed until it runs out of fuel.

When I powered up to 110% I got the overheat message, simply power down to 100% and the overheat message is gone, this is also with the radiator closed.

So basicly on the Bf109 G2 and the FW190 A5 the cowl flap is completely useless.
Simply close it because it's only holding you back.

faustnik
03-15-2004, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
Add FW109A5 to the list as well.

100% throttle with auto pitch and it can run with the radiator closed until it runs out of fuel.

When I powered up to 110% I got the overheat message, simply power down to 100% and the overheat message is gone, this is also with the radiator closed.

So basicly on the Bf109 G2 and the FW190 A5 the cowl flap is completely useless.
Simply close it because it's only holding you back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This seems like a legitimate question. In the 190 I can cool my engine down almost instantly but opening the radiator and going to 99% throttle.

The Merlin 45 is very difficult to cool down once it hits overheat.

Is this a major benefit of the air-cooled radial?

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blabla0001
03-15-2004, 09:55 AM
Well, it looks like a major bug then because you don't even need air flow to cool the engine off in these planes.

If you power down to 100% throttle the overheat message is gone almost instantly, you don't even have to open the cowl flap.

So basicly when I fight in these 2 planes I set the cowl flap to closed instead of auto and swap beteen 110% and 100% the entire flight.

Why let the cowl flap drag me down if it's serves no purpose?

blabla0001
03-15-2004, 10:04 AM
As a side note, I find it rather weird that the LW players who cried the loudest about the overheat times on the Spitfires failed to spot this much more severe bug on their own planes.

I mean come on, even the Spitfire cannot fly 100% with radiator closed until it runs out of fuel and once it does overheat and your in the middle of a dogfight your basicly dead meat unless you can sneak away and try to get back to base in one piece, while on the FW190 A5 or Bf109 G2 you simply power down to 100% and fight on like nothing happend.

gates123
03-15-2004, 10:10 AM
well if you really tap into your planes potential you'll realize that once the prop pitch is unlocked and your on manual the rpm's pick up and the fw's and bf's WILL overheat. Also I fly the TA-152 with rads wide open and 110% throttle and it takes awhile to overheat and a slight nudge down to 103% and it stays cool. Of course this all changes once mw-50 is engaged. I love the TA! SHe's unstoppable when the prop pitch is used right.

http://gr.fipu.krasnoyarsk.edu/camms/archive/ww2_fighters/0112/pics/0112_2_1.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

faustnik
03-15-2004, 10:14 AM
Capp,

That "sidenote" was not necessary. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Many a/c have their overheat modeled this way.

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KaRaYa-X
03-15-2004, 10:51 AM
Here is another overheating-bug:

I flew a Bf109G6/AS versus 2 FW190D9 offline. After I shot down the last of these 2 Doras I got an Overheat Warning (was running MW50 and 110% power). I immediately powered down to 90% where the engine would only run without the injection because MW50 is only engaged at 101% or more...
however I flew around and the engine wouldn't cool down (radiator on auto)... so I just disengaged MW50. Only 2 seconds later it said Engine: Normal...

When I reengaged MW50 only 20 seconds later the engine started to overheat again...although at 90% http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
that's pretty weird... If you have a look at the cockpit you will see that a.t.a will increase when you are under 100% and engage MW50. However this should only happen when you increase power at 101% and above.

Hope you all got the idea... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

PS: This happens with all Bf109s - I've got the original track of my FW engagement

blabla0001
03-15-2004, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Capp,

That "sidenote" was not necessary. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Many a/c have their overheat modeled this way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, for me it was, first of all I get flamed by these people who label me biased for pointing out that the overheat bug is on all planes but at the same time it's them who are out to criple the oppositions planes while trying to hide the bugs on their own planes with stupid flame posts.

It get's kind of tiresome to see these so called "neutral" people seek out every oppertunity to criple allied planes with data that is old and then try to pass it as design flaws for the entire line of that plane.

I bet if they found test data on some allied plane that shows overheating/cooling problems they come here and yell that it has to be implemented on all of them because the test says so.

And when allied players come in those threads and question the data they get flamed and are called biased.

This has been going on for quite some time now and to be honest I am getting pretty fed up with it.

faustnik
03-15-2004, 12:50 PM
I comes from both sides Capp.

Don't let it get to you, keep posting your issues and questions.

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blabla0001
03-15-2004, 12:52 PM
I will try Faust, thx for the heads up though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
03-15-2004, 10:34 PM
Without reading everything.

Like i said, I think the Spit overheats too slowly but it is too hard to get rid of heat.

Capp, as for the A-5 and other 190's your performance with "auto" pitch is decreased because rpm's are much lower. It seems auto is more of a "cruise mode." That is why it overheats much slower. Still "auto" is useless because performance suffers too much. The 190 will overheat just fine in manual pitch which is required to get near indicated numbers. Put 190 in auto, then switch it to manual and hear the rpms go up significantly.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
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SteelMag
03-16-2004, 03:59 AM
i find that the engine heat factor has been toned down for pretty much everythin in AEP

blabla0001
03-16-2004, 04:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Without reading everything.

Like i said, I think the Spit overheats too slowly but it is too hard to get rid of heat.

Capp, as for the A-5 and other 190's your performance with "auto" pitch is decreased because rpm's are much lower. It seems auto is more of a "cruise mode." That is why it overheats much slower. Still "auto" is useless because performance suffers too much. The 190 will overheat just fine in manual pitch which is required to get near indicated numbers. Put 190 in auto, then switch it to manual and hear the rpms go up significantly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That still doesn't explain it being able to cool down the engine instantly while the radiator is fully closed.

This basicly means that the air cooled engines are able to dispense heat without air flow.

clint-ruin
03-16-2004, 12:24 PM
Though Tully may well delete the flamewar that sparked this, here's the track people were after:

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/easydone.jpg

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/easydone.zip

It's really not that hard to take down most aircraft with a single AP round, two 20mms at most are usually enough to take an aircraft out of the fight. If they hit the right spot.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

dahdah
03-16-2004, 12:28 PM
That shows a hit in the induction system. The pressurized fuel/air mixture would ignite.

clint-ruin
03-16-2004, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dahdah:
That shows a hit in the induction system. The pressurized fuel/air mixture would ignite.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, could be. Basically, any inline engine is vulnerable to that same shot position as represented in FB.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/easydoneagain.jpg

Screenshot's taken before the other rounds hit [3 total, from engine to rear cockpit to fuselage] but you can see the black smoke starting before any other damage is done in that shot.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/test-yak3-ek.rar [may need winrar 3.30 to open]

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

crazyivan1970
03-16-2004, 03:36 PM
I suggest you stop flame war and get to the point.

New broom in the house http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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blabla0001
03-16-2004, 03:48 PM
Thx Crazy.

clint-ruin
03-16-2004, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I suggest you stop flame war and get to the point.

New broom in the house http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hooray!

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S77th-brooks
03-16-2004, 11:02 PM
ty crazy