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brasil66
07-01-2004, 09:38 AM
I've read in several books that in (at least early versions) the Hurricane's engine, because of normally aspirated carburation, would cut out or stutter in steep dives. This required pilots to roll before diving when chasing German plans with fuel injection.
This was heavily modeled in Rowans BoB. However, I cant seem to get my Hurri to do it in IL2 AEP.
Occasionally, after a dive, I'll lose some power and the engine will even die...but dont get the engine cutout.

Can anyone comment on this? Just curios.

Thanks,

Mark

brasil66
07-01-2004, 09:38 AM
I've read in several books that in (at least early versions) the Hurricane's engine, because of normally aspirated carburation, would cut out or stutter in steep dives. This required pilots to roll before diving when chasing German plans with fuel injection.
This was heavily modeled in Rowans BoB. However, I cant seem to get my Hurri to do it in IL2 AEP.
Occasionally, after a dive, I'll lose some power and the engine will even die...but dont get the engine cutout.

Can anyone comment on this? Just curios.

Thanks,

Mark

DeerHunterUK
07-01-2004, 09:44 AM
I think your problem might stem from the difficulty settings that you might be using. I'm pretty sure that 1 of them affects (though don't ask me which 1 as I honestly can't remember) the negative G cutout that the Hurricane suffers from. But I can confirm that FB\AEP definitely simulates the Hurricane negative G cutout problem, I managed to cut the engine out last night during a dogfight, haven't done that in a long while.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

Greenwidth
07-01-2004, 09:50 AM
Just tried Hurri Mk I QMB, and it cuts out after 8-9 secs inverted flying.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/greenwidth/Greenwidth.jpg

alichino
07-01-2004, 09:53 AM
I've had the hurricane sputter and being a the worst pilot ever, I've had one or two die. DeerHunterUK is probably right. Someone here might know, but I could have sworn that fuel injection was fitted on the later models, but then again, not only do I hold the title as worst pilot ever, I'm also an certified idiot.

http://www.designbyjudy.com/images/alichinosig.jpg

ELEM
07-01-2004, 11:34 AM
Odd! Most people come here asking WHY DOES the engine of the Hurricane (I-16, I-153 etc) splutter when pushing negative 'G'!!

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/dhm_787_small.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
07-01-2004, 11:43 AM
Are you sure you're using the Hurri Mk.I? That's the carborated Hurri.

pcisbest
07-01-2004, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELEM:
Odd! Most people come here asking WHY DOES the engine of the Hurricane (I-16, I-153 etc) splutter when pushing negative 'G'!!

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/dhm_787_small.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yeah, that happened to me the other day in campaign mode with the I-153. I was trying so hard to evade a 109, that I plunged downward without thinking, and about 3 seconds later the engince started sputttering, then cut out. Well, I was only about 100 feet over the ground when this happened so.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

Yeah, on full realism you really have to watch the Negative G's, so I dont doubt that this is modeled on the Hurricane as well.

tfu_iain1
07-01-2004, 12:44 PM
actually, no allied aircraft of the second world war had direct fuel injection, only germans. rather, they had carbs that were resistant to inverted flight ( the original workaround was basicly a ha'penny with a hole in it to stop the petrol pouring out of the carb too quick... it would still cut out, but much later, so inverted Gs could be sustained. later carbs had more elegant systems, which i dont understand http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dr Ullen
07-06-2004, 05:49 AM
The problem with the Hurricane Mk I is that the engine cut outs are not realistic. Yes the Mk I had carburettors that made the engine miss a stroke or two in a negative-G dive. But when I fly the Hurricane Mk I the engine dies (and won't start again) if I as much as sneezes on the stick. Very irritating! I have to say that I haven't been totally updated on patches and stuff for a while, this problem might have been fixed by now. Maybe someone knows?

Magister__Ludi
07-06-2004, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tfu_iain1:
actually, no allied aircraft of the second world war had direct fuel injection, only germans. rather, they had carbs that were resistant to inverted flight ( the original workaround was basicly a ha'penny with a hole in it to stop the petrol pouring out of the carb too quick... it would still cut out, but much later, so inverted Gs could be sustained. later carbs had more elegant systems, which i dont understand http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ash-82FN is a fuel injected engine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
You find it on late war Lavochkins and Tu-2.

Magister__Ludi
07-06-2004, 07:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr Ullen:
The problem with the Hurricane Mk I is that the engine cut outs are not realistic. Yes the Mk I had carburettors that made the engine miss a stroke or two in a negative-G dive. But when I fly the Hurricane Mk I the engine dies (and won't start again) if I as much as sneezes on the stick. Very irritating! I have to say that I haven't been totally updated on patches and stuff for a while, this problem might have been fixed by now. Maybe someone knows?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes, somewhere in the middle would be much more realistic. Prewar carburated engines all had troubles with negative Gs, they would stop if pilot insists on pushing neg Gs (though not at the lightest touch). Second, engines like Merlin XX or Merlin 45, should loose power under neg Gs, but they should be more difficult to stop. Later engines that indeed had negative G carburators, should suffer even less (significantly less noticeable), but there was no real cure for this problem, except the replacement of carburators with fuel injection.

WTE_Galway
07-06-2004, 05:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
Yes, somewhere in the middle would be much more realistic. Prewar carburated engines all had troubles with negative Gs, they would stop if pilot insists on pushing neg Gs (though not at the lightest touch). Second, engines like Merlin XX or Merlin 45, should loose power under neg Gs, but they should be more difficult to stop. Later engines that indeed had negative G carburators, should suffer even less (significantly less noticeable), but there was no real cure for this problem, except the replacement of carburators with fuel injection.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Lets clarify this a touch.

While many planes suffer fuel starvation under negative G the early war merlins suffered from FLOODING under negative G or when inverted, the problem was that under negative G the carburetter dumped far too much fuel into the engine effectively killing it.

This was temporarily fixed early in the war by inserting a restricting washer in the fuel line to the carb named jokingly "Mrs Tilly's orifice" after the female RR engineeer who came up with the solution.

Late war redesigned carburettors for the Merlin did not have a problem under negative G.

Ironically one of the few remaining Mosquito's in the world was lost at an airshow in the UK in the late 1990's because of an engine cutout under negative G (the mechanics working on it had incorrectly fitted the negative G solution) .. the pilot managed to recover from the resultant spin and shutdown the other engine but neglected to shutdown the flooded engine which promptly cleared itself at full throttke and flipped him into the ground.

JG53Frankyboy
07-06-2004, 08:23 PM
another point about the Merlin engine of the Hurricane MkI is also that it should NOT have a second loader gear ! its MerlinII was a single gear one.

the second gear of the HurricaneMkIIs supercharger is correct , MerlinXX had that.

DeerHunterUK
07-07-2004, 06:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
another point about the Merlin engine of the Hurricane MkI is also that it should NOT have a second loader gear ! its MerlinII was a single gear one.

the second gear of the HurricaneMkIIs supercharger is correct , MerlinXX had that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always thought the Hurricane Ia had a 2 stage supercharger fitted to it. However, I checked this up after reading Franky's comments and it is indeed only fitted with a single stage supercharger. The following is taken from the book "The Hawker Hurricane; An Illustrated History";
"The Rolls-Royce Merlin engine was a supercharged (single-stage on Marks I-III engines, two stage thereafter) upright V-12 liquid-cooled in-line engine."

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

AWL_Spinner
07-07-2004, 06:48 AM
I've had a Hurri Mk1 engine cut during thunderstorm turbulance in an IL2 campaign. Thankfully I was able to force land on a road and, once on the ground, restart the engine.

As an aside - I watched "The Battle Of Britain" on DVD last weekend. At the start (in France) there's a sequence where someone does a roll in a Hurri. At the inverted point of the roll the Merlin coughs and leaves a small smoke trail.

Cheers, Spinner

http://www.alliedwingedlegion.com/members/signatures/spinner_sig.jpg

JG53Frankyboy
07-07-2004, 07:14 AM
check this link about Merlin engines. nice reading

http://www.spitfiresociety.demon.co.uk/engines.htm