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View Full Version : Will we see a war going on around us in the PF Campaign..???



Charlie901
05-30-2004, 03:31 PM
One small complaint I have with IL2 FB and all it's expansion packs thereafter is with the single player campaign.

Basically, I don't feel like there is actually a war going on around me when flying. Sure, I've seen the occasional convoy, or some AAA around airfields, but it all still seems too STERILE.

Where are the bomber formations flying around attacking strategic targets? Where are the transports airdropping supplies/men, or even landing and taking off from airfileds shuttling supplies, equipment and men? Where are the scout/spotter A/C keeping an eye on the front lines? Where are the massive tank battles below while fighters and bombers slug it out overhead?

I just finished the Stalingrad Campaign and have never seen a single transport flying over the city airdropping supplies for the Germans. Maybe a supply crate on a parachute is not implimented in game but at least have some A/C fly over the city to simulate this!!!

As is the only A/C in the Campaign mission are the mission A/C and the opposition A/C which intersect paths at some point and when the opposition A/C are shot down there are no other possible random encounters guarenting you a boring and safe flight home.

Maybe all our PC's would explode if this was implimented in the campaign, but at least give us the option to have random additional flights. If so I would be willing to turn my grafix settings down a notch for some immersion.

Anyway I guess I'm spoiled by Falcon 4.0's Campaign system. But it would be nice to see some more action outside of your flight mission during a campaign. There is nothing like watching the A.I. fight it out during a campaign mission and rooting for your side. And there is nothing better than being able to go of course and lend a hand if neccessary.

I hope some of this can be added to PF this time around http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Charlie901
05-30-2004, 03:31 PM
One small complaint I have with IL2 FB and all it's expansion packs thereafter is with the single player campaign.

Basically, I don't feel like there is actually a war going on around me when flying. Sure, I've seen the occasional convoy, or some AAA around airfields, but it all still seems too STERILE.

Where are the bomber formations flying around attacking strategic targets? Where are the transports airdropping supplies/men, or even landing and taking off from airfileds shuttling supplies, equipment and men? Where are the scout/spotter A/C keeping an eye on the front lines? Where are the massive tank battles below while fighters and bombers slug it out overhead?

I just finished the Stalingrad Campaign and have never seen a single transport flying over the city airdropping supplies for the Germans. Maybe a supply crate on a parachute is not implimented in game but at least have some A/C fly over the city to simulate this!!!

As is the only A/C in the Campaign mission are the mission A/C and the opposition A/C which intersect paths at some point and when the opposition A/C are shot down there are no other possible random encounters guarenting you a boring and safe flight home.

Maybe all our PC's would explode if this was implimented in the campaign, but at least give us the option to have random additional flights. If so I would be willing to turn my grafix settings down a notch for some immersion.

Anyway I guess I'm spoiled by Falcon 4.0's Campaign system. But it would be nice to see some more action outside of your flight mission during a campaign. There is nothing like watching the A.I. fight it out during a campaign mission and rooting for your side. And there is nothing better than being able to go of course and lend a hand if neccessary.

I hope some of this can be added to PF this time around http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Latico
05-30-2004, 05:37 PM
Apparently you don't have a real knowledge of what war was like. WWII was made up of many isolated battles. Combat was not taking place everywhere.

stansdds
05-30-2004, 07:01 PM
I think that is actually a very common misconception. In recent years we have witnessed small wars in relatively small spaces that were covered intensely by the media. This can give a person the idea that in a war it is non-stop fighting everywhere, every day. This is also the viewpoint of most war movies. War movies typically take only the most intense battles and condense them into a couple of hours. In a war, there could be several days where a particular unit could see little or no action.

Latico
05-30-2004, 09:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stansdds:
I think that is actually a very common misconception. In recent years we have witnessed small wars in relatively small spaces that were covered intensely by the media. This can give a person the idea that in a war it is non-stop fighting everywhere, every day. This is also the viewpoint of most war movies. War movies typically take only the most intense battles and condense them into a couple of hours. In a war, there could be several days where a particular unit could see little or no action.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, That's what I meant. The movies and TV media make warfare appear as though it's one big mass combat zone, with shooting and bombing going on all the time. That was just not the case. Much of the time it was logistical operations.

As for the air war, most combat sorties were ordered against specific targets either as tactical strikes or Close Air support. But there were many patrol missions that were flown where the pilots returned to base without engaging any enemy targets.

On the ground armies would engage in a particular area until one is idstroyed, surrenders, or is forced to retreat. After the disengagement there was usually a period afterward of regrouping, resupply, and setting up of defensive positions around the conquered area against possible counter attacks. These lulls in fighting were very much needed by the infantrymen for obvious reasons. No army can hold up to continuous fighting for months and months at a time. The fatigue factor can be excruciating even after a couple of weeks without rotating of troops. And rotation wasn't always practical.

Charlie901
05-30-2004, 11:05 PM
I think you guy's took what I said to an extreme.

I understand that most of the time battles were very isolated events with much inactivity in between. But with this FB Campaign it has been that way 100% of the time. I mean this is War, and once in a Campaign I would like too see some A/C going about, other than the ones I'm escorting. Whether or not they are comming to/from my airfield does not matter.

I'm talking about airfiled activity for a start. Lets say you are taking off for a mission. It would add some immersion IMHO if you had some occasional supply A/C orbiting for a landing at your airbase. Or how about some enemy bombers on the other side of your map heading off to a target which don't require you to protect/shoot them down.

I'm no WWII veteran but I would imagine that most combat A/C in WWII flew in good weather and during daylight. So I would further imagine that on a good day, in good weather, at the start of an offensive, at a front line combat airbase you would see some type of activity greater than what is currently generated.

For instance, I'm flying right over an enemy airbase and I see no fighters scrambling? The only enemy fighters that have been appearing are the ones that take off the same time my flight does from an airfield way behind enemy lines.

Yeah, you might go for weeks without seeing any activity but it would be nice to get jumped from a flight that you did not know was comming. Again, as its been now, if you take out the main mission enemy flight that's it you know you won't face any other enemy A/C the whole return trip home.

I'm not talking Star Wars type action here, just some other activity to make you feel that you and your flight are not alone, once in a while.

Weather_Man
05-30-2004, 11:39 PM
One good reason is ground activity tends to be a FPS killer. A fighter vs fighter engagement does not need a lot of extraneous action going on that you can't even see at 2000m.

That being said, there is a full mission builder where you can create a mission just as you have said. Full tank assaults, paradrops, close air support, bombers, fighters, AA, resupply columns--as much as you like. You'll probably get 5 fps, but it'll be a hoot!

I've created some massive missions like this. Though totally unplayable, it's great fun to watch and see which side wins the battle.

Latico
05-31-2004, 11:00 AM
Weather_man has the answer you were looking for.

I suspect that the frame rate problem will also limit you from being able to add the historical number of aircraft that were normally sent out on bombing raids which was about 35 and up, just of bombers, not to mention the escort fighters.

Have you seen any photos of all the ships offshore at Iwo Jima during that invasion? There must have been hundreds of combat vessels and supply ships. I some one were to create a mission with all those ships included (some were furnishing bombardment of the island), plus all the planes that were providing CAS, I doubt that it would run.

Most of the historically large engagments will definitely have to be scaled down some in order not to demenish the FPS too badly.

Charlie901
05-31-2004, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
Weather_man has the answer you were looking for.

I suspect that the frame rate problem will also limit you from being able to add the historical number of aircraft that were normally sent out on bombing raids which was about 35 and up, just of bombers, not to mention the escort fighters.

Have you seen any photos of all the ships offshore at Iwo Jima during that invasion? There must have been hundreds of combat vessels and supply ships. I some one were to create a mission with all those ships included (some were furnishing bombardment of the island), plus all the planes that were providing CAS, I doubt that it would run.

Most of the historically large engagments will definitely have to be scaled down some in order not to demenish the FPS too badly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Right, but an extra wing or two of 4 A/C wouldn't be too much of a problem.

Weather_Man
05-31-2004, 12:45 PM
Add these two lines to your conf.ini and you will see non-mission related flights appear and AAA at all airbases. --affects campaigns only.

AirIntensity=High
GroundIntensity=High

ZG77_Lignite
05-31-2004, 03:11 PM
I didn't see anybody mention this one:

RandomFlights=5

with 1-5 being valid numbers (2 being default I think, upper case letters required). This'll quickly put a kabosh (just what is a kabosh anyway?) on your frame rate, as well as make radio traffic nearly unintelligable, however tensions start rising fast when you see unexpected contacts BEHIND you, closing fast, or large flights of bombers heading for your own airbase, while escorting your own bombers to Tagino, what was my orders again? hmmmm...

Spectre-63
05-31-2004, 07:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weather_Man:
Add these two lines to your conf.ini and you will see non-mission related flights appear and AAA at all airbases. --affects campaigns only.

AirIntensity=High
GroundIntensity=High<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

under what heading would these two lines appear?

&lt;edit&gt; disregard, I found the options within IL2 Manager

Thx!
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Charlie901
05-31-2004, 11:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Lignite:
I didn't see anybody mention this one:

RandomFlights=5

with 1-5 being valid numbers (2 being default I think, upper case letters required). This'll quickly put a kabosh (just what is a kabosh anyway?) on your frame rate, as well as make radio traffic nearly unintelligable, however tensions start rising fast when you see unexpected contacts BEHIND you, closing fast, or large flights of bombers heading for your own airbase, while escorting your own bombers to Tagino, what was my orders again? hmmmm...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Can this also be put at the end of your Config.Ini File?

Tooz_69GIAP
06-01-2004, 12:19 AM
You could also trying to use another campaign generator like Paul Lowengrin's Dynamic Campaign Generator.

This can be used to create dynamic and random missions which can have as much or as little activity you want in the missions.

Go to http://www.lowengrin.com to download the geberator and find out how to set it up, etc.

I'm sure this will add a lot to your gameplay, especially if your rig can take high volume missions.

Tooz

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

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