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VMF513_Sandman
07-20-2004, 04:45 PM
it's been said the p-51d and 20-na shed wings at or about 650, i havent snapped my wings off at all and was close to 500mph indicated. maybe what the problem is is that u've adjusted ur trim a bit too flat for the dive and u pulled too hard on the recovery. i've turned and pulled out at this speed and no 'snappy wings'.

VMF513_Sandman
07-20-2004, 04:45 PM
it's been said the p-51d and 20-na shed wings at or about 650, i havent snapped my wings off at all and was close to 500mph indicated. maybe what the problem is is that u've adjusted ur trim a bit too flat for the dive and u pulled too hard on the recovery. i've turned and pulled out at this speed and no 'snappy wings'.

VW-IceFire
07-20-2004, 04:58 PM
I think its if you pull really hard. Maybe has to do with trim as well. I notice this only wipes me out if you pull back hard in a high speed dive.

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VMF513_Sandman
07-20-2004, 06:05 PM
i have noticed since day 1 of fb that trim is affected by speed. what is flat and level at 1 speed will be alot of nose up/down if faster or slower than the speed the trim was originally set. also seems to me that the stang gets so much speed so fast, the plane goes to a nose-up trim. just unload the stick forces, and the plane will pull out gently on its own without the wings goin bye bye

Atzebrueck
07-20-2004, 06:21 PM
And have in mind, that all planes have this problem. Even the 109 can lose its wings in a turn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. The P51 just got the most effective elevator to pull up sharp enough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

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WWMaxGunz
07-20-2004, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
i have noticed since day 1 of fb that trim is affected by speed. what is flat and level at 1 speed will be alot of nose up/down if faster or slower than the speed the trim was originally set. also seems to me that the stang gets so much speed so fast, the plane goes to a nose-up trim. just unload the stick forces, and the plane will pull out gently on its own without the wings goin bye bye<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh man! You have GOT to be KIDDING! ROMLMAO!

Please, find a library with ground school books! If this is how much you know of flying then
it's time to quit finding things "wrong with the game". Really.

Hints on speed and trim:
1) the faster you go, the more lift your wings make.
2) the more you can trim down, the less induced drag your wings make.

There is more. Much, much more.


Neal

VMF513_Sandman
07-20-2004, 08:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
i have noticed since day 1 of fb that trim is affected by speed. what is flat and level at 1 speed will be alot of nose up/down if faster or slower than the speed the trim was originally set. also seems to me that the stang gets so much speed so fast, the plane goes to a nose-up trim. just unload the stick forces, and the plane will pull out gently on its own without the wings goin bye bye<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh man! You have GOT to be KIDDING! ROMLMAO!

Please, find a library with ground school books! If this is how much you know of flying then
it's time to quit finding things "wrong with the game". Really.

Hints on speed and trim:
1) the faster you go, the more lift your wings make.
2) the more you can trim down, the less induced drag your wings make.

There is more. Much, much more.


Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

seriously try it. dont do any trim adjustments and put it in a dive. u'll notice that u have to put more nose down force on the stick to maintain dive. now just release pressure on the stick and tell me it doesnt do what i just said.

pegon1
07-21-2004, 12:33 AM
how can sandman be wrong about this, from flight scool i remeber this as labeled "dynamic stability" All WWII aircraft had it to some extent.

dadada1
07-21-2004, 02:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atzebrueck:
And have in mind, that all planes have this problem. Even the 109 can lose its wings in a turn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. The P51 just got the most effective elevator to pull up sharp enough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

my skins:
http://www.vow-hq.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about pilot reports that P51 elevator heavies up considerably at speed, surley this is the root of the problem rather than airframe/wing being too delicate.

WWMaxGunz
07-21-2004, 04:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
i have noticed since day 1 of fb that trim is affected by speed. what is flat and level at 1 speed will be alot of nose up/down if faster or slower than the speed the trim was originally set. also seems to me that the stang gets so much speed so fast, the plane goes to a nose-up trim. just unload the stick forces, and the plane will pull out gently on its own without the wings goin bye bye<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh man! You have GOT to be KIDDING! ROMLMAO!

Please, find a library with ground school books! If this is how much you know of flying then
it's time to quit finding things "wrong with the game". Really.

Hints on speed and trim:
1) the faster you go, the more lift your wings make.
2) the more you can trim down, the less induced drag your wings make.

There is more. Much, much more.


Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

seriously try it. dont do any trim adjustments and put it in a dive. u'll notice that u have to put more nose down force on the stick to maintain dive. now just release pressure on the stick and tell me it doesnt do what i just said.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it does! It's supposed to!

Reread #1 ... more speed gets more lift, that makes and the nose go up.

It's Basic for Real Flying. Changing trim with changing conditions is a fact of flying, at
least where you have trim to change. You change speed, you change trim or hold the stick
or control column against backforce.

#2 tells you that when you trim down, you get less induced drag. That is, if you use the trim
to get the nose down instead of holding the nose down with the stick (or column) and adjusting
trim till the pressure is neutral which is how IL2 has always worked (hey, I requested trim
with one button that would trim to wherever the stick was at the time it was hit and got turned
down) since 2001 even in the original demo, not just since FB 1.0.

Anyhow, you speed up and you trim a bit nose down. Just using trim to get that last bit of
nose adjustment, you now have less induced drag which gets you more speed. So you trim a bit
more down, but less, and pick up a bit more speed, until the extra speed isn't enough to make
a difference, it may take a while before you even see the extra speed unless you watch the
nose carefully to see if it rises any which is the first indication you have more energy that
I know of.

Like I wrote, there's Ground School Manuals out there at many libraries, bookshops, etc.
The EAW CD has I think all that and more in HTML but most people never seemed to know that.

So no, what you see is not a bug. If it wasn't there then that would be wrong.


Neal

alarmer
07-21-2004, 04:57 AM
Good explanation MaxGuns.

But my question goes, does trimming make you go faster in AEP? I once tested this but didint get clear "yes or no" answer more like "it seems to go tad faster" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF513_Sandman
07-21-2004, 08:37 AM
like guns said..a properly trimmed plane will be less draggy. less drag u have, the more speed u can get. so...yup, u will gain more speed on the straights, and most definately in dives

WWMaxGunz
07-21-2004, 01:51 PM
Oh yeah, in the sim it's even more so. That was what trim on a slider, besides the
bat turn cheat aspect (let's ignore that and DO NOT invoke the 3 letter name!), was
about when I first posted about it. If you can trim precisely via a slider or knob
rather than keystrokes, then you have an edge that's very playable or at least it
worked that way in IL2. Since I need my throttle lever as a throttle and can't
break years of playing it any other way at least in combat, I quit messing with trim
on the throttle lever so I can't say for sure but the guys I know with the extra
HOTAS sliders/knobs do say it really helps. Hey, at least they know how much trim
they just put in.


Neal

Gibbage1
07-21-2004, 02:00 PM
I got this from Oleg.

Here is all Ok. You crossed the 15 G peak limit. P-51D has most efiency elevator in a sim on high speed. We don't plan to change it. 15G PEAK level limit currently is done for ALL AIRCRAFT. Its one code for all.

Interesting.... The peak limit of G loading modeled from the FB time.... But only in AEP people find it....

That to escape the damage at 15 G peak level we will need to decrease very much maneuverability of P-51 at high speeds. Understood?

ZG77_Nagual
07-21-2004, 02:05 PM
This makes sense - the times I've done this I basically hauled back the stick like I would in a 190 - which makes for a radically abrupt pull up or turn in the mustang which, generally, is not sustained long enough to result in blackout - the main sign you are hitting a limit in planes that turn well fast.

p1ngu666
07-21-2004, 04:41 PM
go229 is really bad, i swear it brakes before 15G
190s rotate or skid, that probably saves em from shedding wings so easy

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