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CHDT
03-26-2004, 02:30 AM
As the Tempest is coming, just a note about the oxygen mask in this aircraft: it was used permanently in this aircraft, even at low altitudes, because of gas coming in the cockpit.

Cheers,

CHDT
03-26-2004, 02:30 AM
As the Tempest is coming, just a note about the oxygen mask in this aircraft: it was used permanently in this aircraft, even at low altitudes, because of gas coming in the cockpit.

Cheers,

dahdah
03-26-2004, 02:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHDT:
As the Tempest is coming, just a note about the oxygen mask in this aircraft: it was used permanently in this aircraft, even at low altitudes, because of gas coming in the cockpit.

Cheers,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gas &gt; do you mean exhaust fumes?

Dmitri9mm
03-26-2004, 06:30 AM
Yeah the carbon-monoxide leak was allmost as bad as on the Typhoon. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
I once read something about the Sabre-engine, but I don't know if it's true: That it needed some sort of exteral charge the blow-start the engine, some thing much like a loose shotgun-shell which was loaded into the engine before starting it. Any confirmation on this?

Aaron_GT
03-26-2004, 06:46 AM
I read that one of the reasons why the RAF
rejected the P39 as armed with 37mm cannon
was due to gas build up from the cannon.
I am not sure if this was fixed by the time
versions were shipped to the USSR (N etc) or
if the P39 pilot should put on his mask as
soon as you touch the second fire button!

Aaron_GT
03-26-2004, 06:47 AM
Not an unusual starting mechanism, Dimitri.
I think these catridges are modelled in
some of the VVS cockpits in the game.

dahdah
03-26-2004, 06:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dmitri9mm:
Yeah the carbon-monoxide leak was allmost as bad as on the Typhoon. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
I once read something about the Sabre-engine, but I don't know if it's true: That it needed some sort of exteral charge the blow-start the engine, some thing much like a loose shotgun-shell which was loaded into the engine before starting it. Any confirmation on this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is called the Koffman starter. There was a revolver that held 5 cartriges. The gasses went down a tube to a chamber that had a diaphram(piston) that engaged the started dog. Further motion because of the helical splines then rotated the drive gear. It produced a momentary 25hp. Advantages was it was light compared to an electrical system and electricity)battery) was not required. Disadvantage was if the engine did not start the plugs had to be pulled and the excess fuel allowed to evaporate from the cylinders before the trying again as well as oil being put into the cylinders. There was a priming brew of 30% lub and 70% fuel to ensure the sleeves were adequately lubed.

A '2 shot' starting system was used. One was fired with the mags off but primer on. The next shot should start the enegine.

VW-IceFire
03-26-2004, 06:55 AM
Actually I'm not entirely sure that oxygen was used the entire time. I know for certain that note was made that the pilots would wear the oxygen mask on engine start because the gasses would build up - but I had assumed that once the engine was running smoothly the gas levels would die back down again.

I could be wrong on that point. Excellent question and attention to detail.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

BerkshireHunt
03-26-2004, 08:42 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CHDT:
As the Tempest is coming, just a note about the oxygen mask in this aircraft: it was used permanently in this aircraft, even at low altitudes, because of gas coming in the cockpit.

Can't be true. This guy is Hawker test pilot Bill Humble and he isn't wearing an oxygen mask:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Minusmonas-Tempest.JPG
This is one of a series of pictures taken by Air Ministry photographer Charles Brown- Humble had to formate on the bomber which Brown rode in and peel away at a given signal. It must have taken some time to do as there are several shots in the series- and Humble would hardly be likely to risk his life and a brand new Tempest just so he could record his face for posterity.

Re the coffman cartridge starter it was also used on the Spitfire II, though was not subsequently fitted to any other Spit. It required that the engine reduction gear casing be strengthened to cope with the shock load of sudden application of torque- it made the Merlin somewhat more complicated to produce.
It was later used on the Napier Sabre but wasn't really man enough for the job- not having been designed to turn over a 24 cylinder engine.
However, it was later used on early British jet engines like the De Havilland Goblin- I've read an account which said DH Venoms powered by this engine would start with a bang (the cartridge going off) followed by a stream of black smoke issuing from the cartridge exhaust vent- then the whoosh of the engine. To the uninitiated it looked like the aircraft had exploded- but it was quite normal.
Assuming we get the Tempest (still some doubt about that) I hope 1CMaddox can rustle up some distinctive sounds for it. The bang on start up would be nice but the engine in particular should sound high pitched (it revved very fast at cruise- 3000 rpm- and was of very short stroke)- this was remarked on by witnesses at the time.

p1ngu666
03-26-2004, 09:26 AM
yeah it did have a high pitch noise. im more a low end person http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

BerkshireHunt
03-26-2004, 09:39 AM
But I hear you sing soprano.

VW-IceFire
03-26-2004, 01:44 PM
Some slightly distinctive sounds for the Sabre engine would be good.

Especially if/when Harti finishes the Typhoon as well. We'll have two aircraft with that type of engine.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"