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View Full Version : Is Ubi stupid enough to create another revenge and/or initiaton story?



dimbismp
05-08-2015, 07:49 PM
I mean,we are f***ing fed up with revenge and initiaton stories.Out of the 8 main games,4 of them had storng or lesser revenge themes[ac2,acu and even acro and ac3(where is charles leeeeeee?)],hell even AC:CC had a revenge story...As for initiation,again half the games more or less had a guy who was new to the assassin's order etc.Also,bear in mind that these statistics involve acb and acr.If we ignore these games,4/6 main protagonists were driven more or less by revenge,while 4/6 of them weren't assassins/templars at the beggining of the game.

Anyway,if ACS feature a revenge and/or initiation story,i am really going to be pissed off and seriously i may not buy this.There are many unexplored cool ideas,like middle aged protagonist,assassin civil war etc

The real reason behind this BS is that Ubi wants each and every AC to be welcome to newcomers...Anyway,what do you think?

VestigialLlama4
05-08-2015, 07:59 PM
The real reason behind this BS is that Ubi wants each and every AC to be welcome to newcomers...Anyway,what do you think?

Well, bear in mind, that it's not just about initiation. The fact is with every new protagonist and time jump, its important to re-restablish the Assassins. They have to establish the historical time period first, and then they have to explain where and how the Assassins fit in there. What were the Assassins in the Caribbean, were they on the side of the Settlers and Colonists, no they were mostly on the side of the displaced natives, what were the Assassins in the New World before Connor, they were a bunch of minorities led by an African American before a Mohawk signed on board. The Assassins during the Renaissance, mostly on the side of nouveau riche middle class who helped out other lower class people.

Assassins in France...a bunch of loony self-important morons who gathered underground and had tea with the lizard people.

So I wouldn't mind if they took time and explained the Assassins and state clearly who and what they are, and what role they occupy in England, which has been such a Templar stronghold from what we see in AC3-AC4-Rogue.

Shahkulu101
05-08-2015, 08:02 PM
Yes, and they will.

Hans684
05-08-2015, 08:06 PM
Anyway,if ACS feature a revenge and/or initiation story,i am really going to be pissed off and seriously i may not buy this.

Revenge and invitations is getting boring, we know the damn Creed by now. It's not like we're in a mental hospital or have short term memory. I don't think it will be revenge story but an initiation is possible, showing of Jacob/Albert/Samuel during his early years.


There are many unexplored cool ideas,

Indeed but mainstream stories without depth is popular, that more or less always require a black and white story as well with an perfect unchallenged protagonist that only need to say a few fancy lines.


like middle aged protagonist

At least we could skip the initiation with that.


assassin civil war etc

Mafia and Vikings is perfect for that.


The real reason behind this BS is that Ubi wants each and every AC to be welcome to newcomers...

True, they've been saying that you don't need to play the older games a few times during marketing recently.


Anyway,what do you think?

I agree.

Democrito_71
05-08-2015, 08:10 PM
I mean,we are f***ing fed up with revenge and initiaton stories.Out of the 8 main games,4 of them had storng or lesser revenge themes[ac2,acu and even acro and ac3(where is charles leeeeeee?)],hell even AC:CC had a revenge story...As for initiation,again half the games more or less had a guy who was new to the assassin's order etc.Also,bear in mind that these statistics involve acb and acr.If we ignore these games,4/6 main protagonists were driven more or less by revenge,while 4/6 of them weren't assassins/templars at the beggining of the game.

Anyway,if ACS feature a revenge and/or initiation story,i am really going to be pissed off and seriously i may not buy this.There are many unexplored cool ideas,like middle aged protagonist,assassin civil war etc

The real reason behind this BS is that Ubi wants each and every AC to be welcome to newcomers...Anyway,what do you think?

I agree, I've had enough with revenge/redemption driven protagonists. The middle aged family guy background would be a pleasant surprise for an AC protagonist since I'm slightly annoyed that nearly all protagonists so far have been at the age of 20 and that they always get inducted to the order.
I want to play as an middle aged, high ranking Master assassin who is dedicated & driven by the Creeds philosophy and not driven by revenge/redemption stuff.

I wouldn't get surprised if Ubi reused the same revenge/redemption story style all over again in AC: Syndicate. Lets hope That Syndicates story and protagonist is much better written and surprisingly different compared too Unity.:cool:

Xstantin
05-08-2015, 08:14 PM
Yes. Jacob (?) will also be the deadliest assassin ever. And he'll probably have the ponytail. I'm ready to bet he'll half something - half Irish or half Scottish maybe

Hans684
05-08-2015, 08:17 PM
Yes. Jacob (?) will also be the deadliest assassin ever. And he'll probably have the ponytail. I'm ready to bet he'll half something - half Irish or half Scottish maybe

Add some dead parents and it's perfect.

dimbismp
05-08-2015, 08:17 PM
Yes. Jacob (?) will also be the deadliest assassin ever. And he'll probably have the ponytail. I'm ready to bet he'll half something - half Irish or half Scottish maybe
Lol you are right.I just remembered that arno was half french half austrian.Why?Just why Ubi?

Namikaze_17
05-08-2015, 08:19 PM
I agree that the revenge/initiation stories are stale. That's why people attracted to Edward's story because it was something different for a change.

As others have said, hopefully they go with the middle-aged protagonist route. It would be something new and refreshing which is something AC needs heavily in the story department.

dimbismp
05-08-2015, 08:22 PM
Add some dead parents and it's perfect.
Yeah AC writing is getting extremely predictable.The way Ubi has been depicting the assassins so far,the average assassin,whatever the time period has these traits:
Young(early 20s),charismatic and most of all deadly.Can parkour and fight perfectly without any training,because 1st civ geneeeeesss people!
Unknown assassin heritage.
Some,or all,family members die,which results in the protagonist learning the truth and joining the assassins to take his/her revenge
In the end,he/she wipes out the entire local templar order,WITHOUT any help from the brotherhood.But,surprisingly,the Templars bounce back and have the upper hand in the next game
Optional:ponytail

marvelfannumber
05-08-2015, 08:24 PM
Lol you are right.I just remembered that arno was half french half austrian.Why?Just why Ubi?

I never even understood why they felt the need to add that in the first place when it is never even mentioned or illuded to anywhere in the story. We don't even know who Arnos mom is.

Altair1789
05-08-2015, 08:26 PM
Yes.

GunnerGalactico
05-08-2015, 08:27 PM
Add some dead parents and it's perfect.

How about they make him brash, charismatic and quick-witted as well. :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
05-08-2015, 08:28 PM
I never even understood why they felt the need to add that in the first place when it is never even mentioned or illuded to anywhere in the story. We don't even know who Arnos mom is.

Here you go: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Marie_Dorian

It's brief, but something at least.

Altair1789
05-08-2015, 08:29 PM
Now that I think of it, I trust Yohalem. I'd love to see another game that starts in the middle of a mission

Democrito_71
05-08-2015, 08:32 PM
Yes. Jacob (?) will also be the deadliest assassin ever. And he'll probably have the ponytail.I think Jacobs haircut will be shorter since shorter haircuts were more usual during Victorian England and maybe he will have a beard too. Would be fun if we were able to costumize his beard style.
I'm ready to bet he'll half something - half Irish or half Scottish maybeOr he's half finish and half greek :p just kidding, it wouldn't surprise me if ubi would continue this trend.

Lets see;
Altair was half muslim and half christian
Connor were half native and half english
And Arno were half french and half Austrian.

I have nothing personal against this but I do wonder why Ubi make protagonists who are half something?

Xstantin
05-08-2015, 08:35 PM
I have nothing personal against this but I do wonder why Ubi make protagonists who are half something?

I'm probably completely wrong here but I think it's done in order to make their BG a bit more lively and also solidify some sort of internal struggle with some supposed "uh oh, who's side am i on" :p

Altair1789
05-08-2015, 08:38 PM
Altair was half muslim and half christian

About this, was Altaïr's mom English or a Christian Syrian? Or something else?



Lets see;
Altair was half muslim and half christian
Connor were half native and half english
And Arno were half french and half Austrian.

I have nothing personal against this but I do wonder why Ubi make protagonists who are half something?

Arno being half Austrian served no purpose sadly. Neither did Altaïr being born from a Muslim father and Christian mother now that I think of it.

lothario-da-be
05-08-2015, 08:41 PM
I hope Darby writes it, and in Darby we trust.
Still voted for yes, they keep repeating the same kind of stories and I don't like it.

Namikaze_17
05-08-2015, 08:41 PM
Does being half this and that really affect or alienate any of our protagonists?

I thought it would with Connor, but he got by pretty easy for some strange reason.

I can't recall for Altaïr. But I don't think it did.

It didn't affect Arno whatsoever.

Aveline? Maybe? But I think it was more her being a woman than black.

lothario-da-be
05-08-2015, 08:47 PM
Does being half this and that really affect or alienate any of our protagonists?

I thought it would with Connor, but he got pretty easy for some strange reason.

I can't recall for Altaïr. But I don't think it did.

It didn't affect Arno whatsoever.

Aveline? Maybe? But I think it was more her being a woman than black.
It doesn't really matter that much that they have mixed heritage, but it is getting a bit too much too. 4 out of the 6 main protagonists had mixed heritage.

Democrito_71
05-08-2015, 08:48 PM
I'm probably completely wrong here but I think it's done in order to make their BG a bit more lively and also solidify some sort of internal struggle with some supposed "uh oh, who's side am i on" :p

This 50-50% background worked perfectly with Connors character and story but for Arno, it didn't ad anything to his character and to his story. For Connor he had a internal struggle since he wanted to repell the "outsiders" and at the same time, was "the outsider" and it added to his character and his story. Arno had no internal struggle due to his double nationality and it didn't add anything to his story and character. It was just there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC3CB1943119D6D70&v=3YB6g09CSNM
Connor talks about his internal struggle in the beginning of the trailer.

Altairs background worked great too since he didn't take any side during the third crusade but he had no internal struggle about his heritage.

lothario-da-be
05-08-2015, 08:49 PM
Was Arno's mixed heritage even mentioned in the game?

EmptyCrustacean
05-08-2015, 08:52 PM
I agree that the revenge/initiation stories are stale. That's why people attracted to Edward's story because was something different for a change.

As others have said, hopefully they go with the middle-aged protagonist route. It would be something new and refreshing which is something AC needs heavily in the story department.

The problem with going middle-aged is that if the protagonist ends up being a hit then the titles will be limited for him/her.
I just don't want any more origin stories.

Civona
05-08-2015, 08:53 PM
there are a limited number of motivations someone can have for killing people. Duty, a sense of justice, and revenge are the main ones. What actually makes a story feel different is how it explores those themes. Ezio's story in AC2 was nothing like Connor's story, yet they were both motivated by revenge. Good writing is the process of making old things feel new again, coming at them from a different angle or ending up at a different conclusion.

Ezio realized that taking revenge always feels hollow, no matter how far you go, and decided to spare Rodrigo to preserve his dignity. Connor decided to kill Charles Lee because even though he no longer had a personal grudge against him, he knew that he was too dangerous to leave alive.

We're humans. We're not really that complicated on the surface. It's our unique journeys and destinations that set us apart. The things that drive us are what bring us together.

Regarding initiations: I don't think they're strictly necessary to show, but since each game's story is meant to stand on its own now, I feel like they need to nail the way they introduce and explain the factions the player might be meeting for the first time. AC3's thing of skipping over stuff that would be important for that was a bad idea. Re-introduce the relevant things about the world in clear ways. Try to make it interesting and say something new, but don't assume everyone obsessively keeps up with your lore.

Democrito_71
05-08-2015, 08:56 PM
About this, was Altaïr's mom English or a Christian Syrian? Or something else?

I think his Mother was syrian although his future wife and the mother of Altairs son Darim, Maria was english.

Namikaze_17
05-08-2015, 08:58 PM
It doesn't really matter that much that they have mixed heritage, but it is getting a bit too much too. 4 out of the 6 main protagonists had mixed heritage.

You mean 4 out of 8.

Adewale & Shay don't have a mixed heritage. :rolleyes:

Democrito_71
05-08-2015, 08:58 PM
Was Arno's mixed heritage even mentioned in the game?

Only in the in game descrition about Arno in Unity but not at all during the main story. As I recall, he never mentions it at all.

marvelfannumber
05-08-2015, 09:00 PM
Was Arno's mixed heritage even mentioned in the game?

I don't think so, however they did mention it frequently in the marketing which at the time made me think that it would be a plot point...It wasn't, so I don't even see why they bothered.

The only logical reasoning I can think of is that that part of the story was cut, but I can't prove that with anything.

Xstantin
05-08-2015, 09:01 PM
there are a limited number of motivations someone can have for killing people. Duty, a sense of justice, and revenge are the main ones.

TBH I think they just don't want the protag to get negative attention in a way. Like, we'll never get a game about some crazy sob killing people just because he's crazy.

lothario-da-be
05-08-2015, 09:01 PM
You mean 4 out of 8.

Adewale & Shay don't have a mixed heritage. :rolleyes:
LOL I forgot Rogue...
Idon't see Adewale as main protagonist.

Namikaze_17
05-08-2015, 09:06 PM
The problem with going middle-aged is that if the protagonist ends up being a hit then the titles will be limited for him/her.
I just don't want any more origin stories.

Well given the period that Samuel/Albert/Jacob is in, It's pretty obvious another game is out the realm of possibility as I doubt we're touching the 20th century regardless if he's well-received or not. At the most, he'll get a continuation a la novel or comic if he's really a success.

Besides, all protagonists should have one game anyways.


LOL I forgot Rogue...
Idon't see Adewale as main protagonist.

Yeah, that depends on how you see Freedom Cry. I personally see it as a title of its own.

dxsxhxcx
05-08-2015, 09:06 PM
Lol you are right.I just remembered that arno was half french half austrian.Why?Just why Ubi?

if I'm not wrong this started after AC3 and the whole 'murica **** yeah! situation that came after its announcement...

Hans684
05-08-2015, 09:09 PM
Now that I think of it, I trust Yohalem. I'd love to see another game that starts in the middle of a mission

Darby is better for that, Black Flag and Revelations.


Yeah AC writing is getting extremely predictable.

To predictable, I can already "see" the story. They reuse to much elements.


The way Ubi has been depicting the assassins so far,the average assassin,whatever the time period has these traits:
Young(early 20s),charismatic and most of all deadly.Can parkour and fight perfectly without any training,because 1st civ geneeeeesss people!
Unknown assassin heritage.

It's becoming one of those old and annoying commercials that's on repeat.


Some,or all,family members die

At least this one is more understandable, their at constant war.


which results in the protagonist learning the truth and joining the assassins to take his/her revenge

Without asking much questions, so a pisspot.


In the end,he/she wipes out the entire local templar order,WITHOUT any help from the brotherhood.

Something that's bad, it's a war. Everyone should be up at arms and ready for anything but no... our protagonist is the The One Above All.


But,surprisingly,the Templars bounce back and have the upper hand in the next game

Not a surprise.


Optional:ponytail

Add one HB, seems like the new trend now.

Xstantin
05-08-2015, 09:11 PM
Besides, all protagonists should have one game anyways.


Then it becomes the space issue for lineups like this one :rolleyes:

http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/AssassinsCreedAssassins.jpg

Namikaze_17
05-08-2015, 09:13 PM
Then it becomes the space issue for lineups like this one :rolleyes:

http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/AssassinsCreedAssassins.jpg

Just take out Aveline & Nikolai.

They're not main game material. :rolleyes: :p

dxsxhxcx
05-08-2015, 09:15 PM
TBH I think they just don't want the protag to get negative attention in a way. Like, we'll never get a game about some crazy sob killing people just because he's crazy.

also because this goes against what the Assassins stand for...

Hans684
05-08-2015, 09:19 PM
also because this goes against what the Assassins stand for...

Anyone running around killing people wouldn't be considered sane, so it's already that.

D.I.D.
05-09-2015, 01:57 AM
there are a limited number of motivations someone can have for killing people. Duty, a sense of justice, and revenge are the main ones.

Limited reasons, yes, but I disagree with the ones you've listed. Those are the ones that games have taught us to expect, but they're not the main ones in life.

Core reasons to adopt a life of killing are much simpler. Chiefly, people do it for money. A close second would be security offered by the employer with a less immediate benefit; think of the numbers of people who join the army because it offers a paid education or a pension. Maybe duty could come before or among these others as part of a top three, in the case of a patriotic soldier.

There are other reasons that could expand the range of characters we get to play. What about doing it because you enjoy it, and it's a thrilling kind of hunt for you? What about if you're just totally cold and unaffected by the killing so you suffer no ill effects, but you're good at it and nothing else you can do can pay as well? What if you want political change, but you don't believe in justice as a means to achieve it? What if you have a lot of investment in a particular business, and competitors become inconvenient to your aims, and all you really want is the training and protection of your place in a secret army in order to get them out of your way? What if you're disadvantaged in society in some way, and becoming an assassin gives you status, respect and social opportunities?

Maybe the immoral ones become ashamed of their initial enthusiasm over time, or maybe they don't. Maybe their original reason to come in saddles them with especially difficult circumstances down the road, whether or not they repent or change. Maybe each target you eliminate opens up a new range of possibilities that you didn't anticipate, and the story keeps changing and becoming more complex.

Revenge is kind of a poor motivation for a game. It's a great one for a movie because you can build up the concept of revenge against one or a few people. It gets out of hand in games of this size because you need a reason for revenge against a whole list of people, and kill countless more in process. That's very limiting, and it can look like a very poor shield for your character's holiness as a Great Person. We probably shouldn't get to play a noble hero as often as we do.

rprkjj
05-09-2015, 02:30 AM
Limited reasons, yes, but I disagree with the ones you've listed. Those are the ones that games have taught us to expect, but they're not the main ones in life.

Core reasons to adopt a life of killing are much simpler. Chiefly, people do it for money. A close second would be security offered by the employer with a less immediate benefit; think of the numbers of people who join the army because it offers a paid education or a pension. Maybe duty could come before or among these others as part of a top three, in the case of a patriotic soldier.

There are other reasons that could expand the range of characters we get to play. What about doing it because you enjoy it, and it's a thrilling kind of hunt for you? What about if you're just totally cold and unaffected by the killing so you suffer no ill effects, but you're good at it and nothing else you can do can pay as well? What if you want political change, but you don't believe in justice as a means to achieve it? What if you have a lot of investment in a particular business, and competitors become inconvenient to your aims, and all you really want is the training and protection of your place in a secret army in order to get them out of your way? What if you're disadvantaged in society in some way, and becoming an assassin gives you status, respect and social opportunities?

Maybe the immoral ones become ashamed of their initial enthusiasm over time, or maybe they don't. Maybe their original reason to come in saddles them with especially difficult circumstances down the road, whether or not they repent or change. Maybe each target you eliminate opens up a new range of possibilities that you didn't anticipate, and the story keeps changing and becoming more complex.

Revenge is kind of a poor motivation for a game. It's a great one for a movie because you can build up the concept of revenge against one or a few people. It gets out of hand in games of this size because you need a reason for revenge against a whole list of people, and kill countless more in process. That's very limiting, and it can look like a very poor shield for your character's holiness as a Great Person. We probably shouldn't get to play a noble hero as often as we do.

http://media4.giphy.com/media/b1l94kKaQfs6k/200w_d.gif

Beautiful post. Something like playing a cold hearted killer, zealous crusader or low-life in it so people respect him could make the story feel so much more realistic.

Defalt221
05-09-2015, 07:32 AM
Yeah AC writing is getting extremely predictable.The way Ubi has been depicting the assassins so far,the average assassin,whatever the time period has these traits:
Young(early 20s),charismatic and most of all deadly.Can parkour and fight perfectly without any training,because 1st civ geneeeeesss people!
Unknown assassin heritage.
Some,or all,family members die,which results in the protagonist learning the truth and joining the assassins to take his/her revenge
In the end,he/she wipes out the entire local templar order,WITHOUT any help from the brotherhood.But,surprisingly,the Templars bounce back and have the upper hand in the next game
Optional:ponytail

The basis of AC story is and will always be this:
Protagonist starts as arrogant, doesn't listen to elders/mentor-Makes regrettable mistakes-Breaks down (or takes to drinking)-goes to assassin/templar organization-seeks for help to deal with/make up for personal regrettable mistake-gets lost in AC vs Templar conflicts-learns to become a true assassin/templar and finally understands their ideal-just when we are about to play as a 'now fully' moulded ideally convinced character, the game ends. Then a Modern Day cliche twist. While all of that is going on, Kotaku leaks a new AC sequel or users at NeoGaf goes on bragging "I met a dev on the plane and he/she told me about the sequel !!!" and we (gamers) board the hype train.
And at interviews devs would say,"The new X character is MOAR brash and charismatic plus deadlier than before (maybe an Ezio wannabe). Game will be 20x bigger than predecessor. Game took fan feedback and lesser handholding=better tougher combat. You can play in your own way stealth/combat= true sandbox (promises to redefine open world). Better history portrayal." We'll get Cool trailers (innumerable), mind blowing E3 demo that's nothing like the final game, a new controversy (AC3= Red coat hate, Black Flag=PETA Whaling issue, Unity=No female playable issue) that'll last for a month or two until Ubisoft shows backup proof of how they addressed it. An idiot will then come up with a DOWNGRADE conspiracy (using off-screen video or a pre-alpha footage) and awaken an angry internet troll (possibly Kotaku will leak that target footage this time a few months later). Ubisoft shows new footage to counter-attack that conspiracy. Hype=reinvigorated. New comments over the internet= "Cool! GOTY for sure!", "Nah. Will never buy Ubisoft game etc...". Game gets delayed /or not. PC obviously gets delayed. One game will get high review scores, next sequel will get low reviews, the sequel after that will get high reviews again (AC3= Hate, BF=Like, Unity=Hate, Syndicate= Like....?)

And yes. That optional ponytail too.

pirate1802
05-09-2015, 08:35 AM
Realistically though, with the kind of constraints placed on the story by it being part of a franchise about well-meaning freedom fighter killers, you can only go about it in certain ways. If not revenge/initiation then maybe another way, and that way too would get stale after a few passes. But then again part of me thinks that it all depends on the writer's caliber. A good writer can make a cliche-ridden story seem tantalizing, a bad writer would make the most exciting premise look mundane so.. But still I voted yes because I have full faith that Ubisoft will muck it up again. Their recent track record doesn't inspire much confidence. I mean in Unity they didn't even try to be something different. Like they were consciously looking to play every cliche that comes to mind. Almost a parody.

Defalt221
05-09-2015, 10:41 AM
Realistically though, with the kind of constraints placed on the story by it being part of a franchise about well-meaning freedom fighter killers, you can only go about it in certain ways. If not revenge/initiation then maybe another way, and that way too would get stale after a few passes. But then again part of me thinks that it all depends on the writer's caliber. A good writer can make a cliche-ridden story seem tantalizing, a bad writer would make the most exciting premise look mundane so.. But still I voted yes because I have full faith that Ubisoft will muck it up again. Their recent track record doesn't inspire much confidence. I mean in Unity they didn't even try to be something different. Like they were consciously looking to play every cliche that comes to mind. Almost a parody.

It doesn't kave to be ''trauma drives protagonist's motivations'' formula everytime. Ezio was traumatized by family death and then joined assassins. Connor by his mother's death that motivated to protect his people leading him to join assassins, Edward after Mary's death truly joins the order,Shay gets traumatized by innocent deaths and joins the templars,Arno gets traumatized due to De La Sierre's murder and Elise bashing him for that.
Only Altair and Adewale showed originality over their motivations to join assassins. Altair truly becomes a grand master of assassins when he learns to differentiate between right and wrong. Adewale joins assassins after learning the dark sides of being a pirate and how terrible templars are.

Here's to hoping Samule Fey joins the assassins (or starts as one right from the start) not out of traumatic past events but simply because "Oppression has to end" .Because Ubisoft is definitely thinking new gameplay innovations this time which is why I voted "No,we'll get something new".

m4r-k7
05-09-2015, 11:03 AM
. Altair truly becomes a grand master of assassins when he learns to differentiate between right and wrong. Adewale joins assassins after learning the dark sides of being a pirate and how terrible templars are. .

Actually, Altair properly became an assassin for the same reason as Arno - redemption.

pirate1802
05-09-2015, 12:04 PM
And one can say the trauma of his days as a slave drove Adewale's actions as an assassin. I hate to be the devil's advocate but the assassins are the good guys by and large and good guys either become good at some point in their lives (ergo they need motivation) or they were raised to be so (born into the brotherhood). Now what sort of motivation would one need? You have the bad-guy-turns-good in Edward's story and a bystander joining the good guys for various reasons in Connor/Aveline/Adewale/Miss. Jun. The alternative to all this would be a guy who joins the good guys because of nothing happened to him personally whatsoever which seems rather flimsy..

The fact that the assassins need to be flashy freedom fighters really close down the breathing space. Say an assassin who joins the brotherhood because he is too good at killing humans would not fly. It might be praised here but not with the general populace, not with the kind of image built up for the assassins. And add to that the fact that these games are being put out faster than a rabbit can reproduce, and you can see them running out of ideas, motivations etc no matter how original they seem now, sooner or later.

D.I.D.
05-09-2015, 12:29 PM
Actually, Altair properly became an assassin for the same reason as Arno - redemption.

Redemption wasn't a reason so much as a consequence, though. Altair's story stands out because it begins without the intro fluff, right in the action, with him as a fully fledged assassin. Then everything else happens, and he grudgingly does what he has to do. Only in the process of all of this does he discover a need to atone for his actions.

VestigialLlama4
05-09-2015, 03:18 PM
Personally, the problem people have here "initiation and revenge" comes from confusion about story concepts, mistaking marketing buzzwords for the actual games. In UNITY and CHINA, the buzzwords are entirely substitutes for actual experience of story and plot in the games.

Arno's story in UNITY was said to be about redemption and he uses that word later in the game, but the actual story doesn't make sense in terms of redemption. Redemption is Edward Kenway in Black Flag after Mary Read dies. Arno never does something willfully wrong from which to redeem himself. Edward wilfully endagers his own crew, wilfully abandons any help and aid to the Assassins and refuses to accept any responsibility for the harm his actions brought them until much much later. Arno is a saint in the game, he never really does anything bad nor is he allowed to, he's the "voice of reason" telling Pierre and Elise to cool down, criticizng the mob and so on, while his own actions are presented as clean and pure. The fact is the story of UNITY has nothing to do with Arno. Arno takes on the goals of the supporting characters, it is Elise's story and we are playing as Arno is because Elise is a woman, and as such too hard to animate. UNITY should have been Elise's story, about the daughter of a Templar grandmaster eventually turning to the Assassins to redeem it and in the process learning about the meaning and limitations of "order" (and maybe joining the Assassins, who knows). In the end, it should be Arno dying and Elise being guilty, because it turns out that its the innocent who pay for her obsession of vengeance, this is basic storytelling. In UNITY, "The story is that red-headed girl got herself killed, if she listened to her nice boyfriend, she'd still be alive and married to him and raise his babies, now the hero's sperm will pass the important Assassin DNA to another vessel." This is even worse in CHRONICLES:CHINA. The story is about vengeance blinding Shao Jun. But the fact is it never blinds her. She never goes out of her way to seek revenge and so compromise her brotherhood. Her mentor dies entirely out of her hands. She doesn't have to feel guilty at all, except in the sense of Survivor's Guilt. The game has her voice a moral about vengeance but Shao Jun did nothing to learn that moral. This is what happens when marketing cooks up a vengeance theme slaps it on cheapjack 2D games and that should satisfy it.Now let's look at how the good games of the franchise handled the theme:

AC1 - Atair is brash and arrogant, he's told by Al Mualim that he needs to be humble and take orders. Okay, that's the story for most of the game. Altair wanting to redeem himself. Initially Altair doesn't think he did anything wrong and he only feels bad that he's being punished. He wants to do the assassinations and get his old life back. His real climax is when he finally apologizes to Malick. You can guess that his conversations with the Templars seeing how they are perverted by ideals to doing bad things is teaching him but it's never spelt out directly, Altair doesn't tell you how he got it, its left to you to connect the dots and it makes those deathbed conversations work. Then the game gets interesting. Altair's arrogant attitude is shown to have worthy qualities because it makes him question his mentor and he tells Malick to start double-checking Al Mualim. In other words the entire arc of the story, of Altair learning humility is questioned and interrogated and the end is about will Altair become better than his mentor or will be just as bad. At the end of the day, AC1 has a story of redemption but that's not what it can be reduced to, there is other stuff in the game.

AC2 - Ezio is painted by fanboys as this vengeance obsessed dude. Actual Ezio is a perfectly normal middle-class rich kid who likes people. He generally puts his family's safety first and then goes on revenge. It's only later that he launches on his revenge scheme and he eventually gets over it. In Brotherhood, likewise, he wants to cleanse Rome of corruption and then take out Cesare and even then only goes after Cesare after consulting Leonardo and the Apple. Revenge is part of Ezio's story but its not entirely about that, its about family, friendship and adventure, about "making friends and influencing people". Ezio is far too friendly and has too rich a cast to be the loner, vengeance-obsessed Batman-spoof people think he is.

AC3 - This game suffers from being overwritten and having multiple origin stories for Connor. But in essence Connor is a coming-of-age story, "you can't go home again", the world is complex, you can't be naive and life has disappointments. It's essentially a classic 19th Century novel theme. So again you have games which are not merely reduced to a single marketing buzzword - "vengeance, redemption". UNITY keeps stating "Revenge" and "Fanaticism" in bold letters because it's an irredemable s-tty game.

rprkjj
05-09-2015, 03:41 PM
Personally, the problem people have here "initiation and revenge" comes from confusion about story concepts, mistaking marketing buzzwords for the actual games. In UNITY and CHINA, the buzzwords are entirely substitutes for actual experience of story and plot in the games.

Arno's story in UNITY was said to be about redemption and he uses that word later in the game, but the actual story doesn't make sense in terms of redemption. Redemption is Edward Kenway in Black Flag after Mary Read dies. Arno never does something willfully wrong from which to redeem himself. Edward wilfully endagers his own crew, wilfully abandons any help and aid to the Assassins and refuses to accept any responsibility for the harm his actions brought them until much much later. Arno is a saint in the game, he never really does anything bad nor is he allowed to, he's the "voice of reason" telling Pierre and Elise to cool down, criticizng the mob and so on, while his own actions are presented as clean and pure. The fact is the story of UNITY has nothing to do with Arno. Arno takes on the goals of the supporting characters, it is Elise's story and we are playing as Arno is because Elise is a woman, and as such too hard to animate. UNITY should have been Elise's story, about the daughter of a Templar grandmaster eventually turning to the Assassins to redeem it and in the process learning about the meaning and limitations of "order" (and maybe joining the Assassins, who knows). In the end, it should be Arno dying and Elise being guilty, because it turns out that its the innocent who pay for her obsession of vengeance, this is basic storytelling. In UNITY, "The story is that red-headed girl got herself killed, if she listened to her nice boyfriend, she'd still be alive and married to him and raise his babies, now the hero's sperm will pass the important Assassin DNA to another vessel." This is even worse in CHRONICLES:CHINA. The story is about vengeance blinding Shao Jun. But the fact is it never blinds her. She never goes out of her way to seek revenge and so compromise her brotherhood. Her mentor dies entirely out of her hands. She doesn't have to feel guilty at all, except in the sense of Survivor's Guilt. The game has her voice a moral about vengeance but Shao Jun did nothing to learn that moral. This is what happens when marketing cooks up a vengeance theme slaps it on cheapjack 2D games and that should satisfy it.Now let's look at how the good games of the franchise handled the theme:

AC1 - Atair is brash and arrogant, he's told by Al Mualim that he needs to be humble and take orders. Okay, that's the story for most of the game. Altair wanting to redeem himself. Initially Altair doesn't think he did anything wrong and he only feels bad that he's being punished. He wants to do the assassinations and get his old life back. His real climax is when he finally apologizes to Malick. You can guess that his conversations with the Templars seeing how they are perverted by ideals to doing bad things is teaching him but it's never spelt out directly, Altair doesn't tell you how he got it, its left to you to connect the dots and it makes those deathbed conversations work. Then the game gets interesting. Altair's arrogant attitude is shown to have worthy qualities because it makes him question his mentor and he tells Malick to start double-checking Al Mualim. In other words the entire arc of the story, of Altair learning humility is questioned and interrogated and the end is about will Altair become better than his mentor or will be just as bad. At the end of the day, AC1 has a story of redemption but that's not what it can be reduced to, there is other stuff in the game.

AC2 - Ezio is painted by fanboys as this vengeance obsessed dude. Actual Ezio is a perfectly normal middle-class rich kid who likes people. He generally puts his family's safety first and then goes on revenge. It's only later that he launches on his revenge scheme and he eventually gets over it. In Brotherhood, likewise, he wants to cleanse Rome of corruption and then take out Cesare and even then only goes after Cesare after consulting Leonardo and the Apple. Revenge is part of Ezio's story but its not entirely about that, its about family, friendship and adventure, about "making friends and influencing people". Ezio is far too friendly and has too rich a cast to be the loner, vengeance-obsessed Batman-spoof people think he is.

AC3 - This game suffers from being overwritten and having multiple origin stories for Connor. But in essence Connor is a coming-of-age story, "you can't go home again", the world is complex, you can't be naive and life has disappointments. It's essentially a classic 19th Century novel theme. So again you have games which are not merely reduced to a single marketing buzzword - "vengeance, redemption". UNITY keeps stating "Revenge" and "Fanaticism" in bold letters because it's an irredemable s-tty game.

Arno was redeeming himself because it was his fault De La Serre died... He wanted to kill the people who killed De La Serre, the assassins are just his mode of finding answers. That's pretty much his entire story. Although that's the secondary objective to Elise's well being from a character standpoint, thats what Arno is always actively trying to do, he only postpones it when Elise is in danger. It rings true to the redemption and vengeance buzzwords.

VestigialLlama4
05-09-2015, 04:07 PM
Arno was redeeming himself because it was his fault De La Serre died...

What was his fault? He had to deliver that letter and he couldn't find Francoise de la Serre, he kept getting obstacles in his path, finally he decided to put it in his room and hope for the best. That's nothing wrong in what he did. He had no reason to think it was something super-serious or urgent. He didn't open that letter or read it (since that is personal stuff and he shouldn't break it and that showed his honesty) and only finds out later when Elise shows him. If Arno knew what that letter contained, he would have gone up to Mr. de la Serre at the party and informed him. It's not his fault at all. Elise also doesn't blame for Arno for her dad's death, when they meet after the Bastille she's generally upset, her entire life is gone and her boyfriend is with the Assassins so she vents but she doesn't actually blame Arno, if she did she would have killed him. I mean in AC2, Ezio has to deliver this crucial letter as well (the shamelessness with which they cannibalize superior games is galling in UNITY) which his father gives him and he briefly sees Umberto and in the background sees Rodrigo, but Ezio doesn't blame himself for his family's death at all because that would be irrational and pointless. He did everything he could but he was too late.

Arno only joins the Assassins because Elise is upset and he wants to make it up to her and prove he's a man to his gf. That's not redemption at all. You can only redeem yourself if you have wilfully and consciously done something bad. Altair willingly killed an innocent man, willingly changed Assassin targets and charged at De Sable, compromising the safety of his unit. Edward willingly endangers his crew and refuses to admit his responsibility after finding out the harm his actions caused the Assassins. The fact is Arno wants to help Elise, protect her and be a good boyfriend and eventually marry her. That's his only goal, he always chose her over the Assassins.

rprkjj
05-09-2015, 04:35 PM
What was his fault? He had to deliver that letter and he couldn't find Francoise de la Serre, he kept getting obstacles in his path, finally he decided to put it in his room and hope for the best. That's nothing wrong in what he did. He had no reason to think it was something super-serious or urgent. He didn't open that letter or read it (since that is personal stuff and he shouldn't break it and that showed his honesty) and only finds out later when Elise shows him. If Arno knew what that letter contained, he would have gone up to Mr. de la Serre at the party and informed him. It's not his fault at all. Elise also doesn't blame for Arno for her dad's death, when they meet after the Bastille she's generally upset, her entire life is gone and her boyfriend is with the Assassins so she vents but she doesn't actually blame Arno, if she did she would have killed him. I mean in AC2, Ezio has to deliver this crucial letter as well (the shamelessness with which they cannibalize superior games is galling in UNITY) which his father gives him and he briefly sees Umberto and in the background sees Rodrigo, but Ezio doesn't blame himself for his family's death at all because that would be irrational and pointless. He did everything he could but he was too late.

Arno only joins the Assassins because Elise is upset and he wants to make it up to her and prove he's a man to his gf. That's not redemption at all. You can only redeem yourself if you have wilfully and consciously done something bad. Altair willingly killed an innocent man, willingly changed Assassin targets and charged at De Sable, compromising the safety of his unit. Edward willingly endangers his crew and refuses to admit his responsibility after finding out the harm his actions caused the Assassins. The fact is Arno wants to help Elise, protect her and be a good boyfriend and eventually marry her. That's his only goal, he always chose her over the Assassins.

Arno leaves the note under the door for De La Serre to get it when he returns rather then bringing it with him to the ball to give personally. He knew it was urgent, but Elise took priority and it ended with De La Serre's death. It wasn't on purpose, but in the end it is him not properly considering things and rushing to be with Elise that results in La Serre's death. And Elise does blame him, she specifically mentions the letter when they meet.

pacmanate
05-09-2015, 05:44 PM
I would actually like something similar to Altair. I want the game to start off maybe in a fight sequence, he is already an Assassin.

Im bored of the revenge stories or stories where a protag initiates to an Assassin. A nice change of pace would be another AC1 style start off where we are chasing down a target already.

TexasCaesar
05-09-2015, 05:54 PM
Ubisoft is extremely lazy when it comes to writing plots. Just take a look at Watch_Dogs. They could have done a brilliant story about government/corporate conspiracies, a thriller, but instead they fell back on generic "angsty vigilante fights criminals."

Assassin's Creed has some significant problems with its overall plot that, in my opinion, prevent it from ever becoming good, but they could at least try something new. I don't think it would kill to have the player not have a personal stake in the fight at all. Just a loyal soldier.

Defalt221
05-10-2015, 05:19 PM
And one can say the trauma of his days as a slave drove Adewale's actions as an assassin.

Trauma of being a slave drove him to piracy. Then he realized that piracy is just a selfish way of life and so chose the assassin's creed as it's a 'far more noble' goal.


The fact that the assassins need to be flashy freedom fighters really close down the breathing space. Say an assassin who joins the brotherhood because he is too good at killing humans would not fly. It might be praised here but not with the general populace, not with the kind of image built up for the assassins. And add to that the fact that these games are being put out faster than a rabbit can reproduce, and you can see them running out of ideas, motivations etc no matter how original they seem now, sooner or later.

They are definitely running out of ideas. This game better impress or I'll be forced to 100 % believe what I said.

I-Like-Pie45
05-10-2015, 07:09 PM
adewale am just butthurt and irrational so he take it out on innocent slaveowners and sellers without consideratings for economic consequences of his liberal actions, or at least that is what my mommy meow am say

Hans684
07-06-2015, 08:49 PM
No but stupid enough to make more Disney stories

SofaJockey
07-06-2015, 09:18 PM
Every AC should welcome newcomers.
It's not the very basic plot structure that matters, it's what you do with it.

LoyalACFan
07-07-2015, 04:35 AM
Ubisoft Press Briefing Template

Meet [INSERT PROTAGONIST], a brash and charismatic young man and the deadliest Assassin yet. Orphaned at a young age, he joins the Assassins, eager to liberate his city from the controlling grasp of the Templars. He plays fast and loose with the tenets of the Creed, often clashing with his Mentors in his relentless quest for justice.

Coming October [INSERT YEAR]

MAKE HISTORY

I-Like-Pie45
07-07-2015, 04:42 AM
i think the only way a revenge story could work now and still feel fresh if ubisoft went the route of the excellent Punisher Max (by Garth Ennis) and PunisherMAX (by Jason Aaron) series and have it that revenge was not the true motivator of the protagonist but rather the excuse for them to go out and indulge their sociopathic desires and that the assassins grow to provide an excuse to justify their murder sprees in their minds

Sorrosyss
07-07-2015, 11:16 AM
Well we know very little of the plot to Syndicate, beyond what the official blurb states. We know that Evie is a master Assassin, but we don't know Jacob's rank. I'd assume the same, so hopefully we've done away with the initiation stuff.

They have (had?) an Assassin father that trained them in Crawley, and then they go to London to stop the Templar threat. Hmm. Gee I wonder what their motivation might be... :p

avk111
07-07-2015, 11:40 AM
As much as I personally support the hero mythology that Ubisoft applies in most its protagonists , which by an Underdog becomes a Master Assassin of his own cult i.e. the assassins ofcourse in this case, it would be interesting to see how the initiation begins for someone who is already in the order, I bet it will take the same premises as the children we see in the movie "300" where you see little kids being tutored in killing and battling , even training against each other in some sort of dojo.So I think in that respect it will be something new to the series, maybe we get to see young Jacob and Evie training as kids etc.

As for the whole initiation process, it will always be the dominant arc for most of the heroes Ubi introduces to us as assassins, I mean look at most comic books hero arcs , most of the them begin all the way from bottom to become the heroes we see them as today, whether its the known major media publicity heroes such as Superman Batman Spiderman , to less known third class heroes such as Agent Venom , Iron fist, Agent Nova, Black Panther

Now if you want to play as a villianious assassin thats a whole different story by itself , but still the hero mythology is something embedded in most cultures and domains of story telling as it serves to be the most promising for general people. hell take a look at religion, most of the story are based on the hero mythology as well , young peasants becomes the leader messenger of god. (With all due respect to different beleifs and cultures)

So yes Ubisoft keep doing what your doing however focus on other issues with respect to this subject.

zSolarStorm
07-07-2015, 12:50 PM
What is this, "Where is Charles Lee"?

ProdiGurl
07-07-2015, 01:19 PM
I'm usually fine with repetition as long as it's written well and I can relate or bond with the character. The minute I don't care about the character, the story's lost on me [no matter how good it might be] & I'm going thru the AC jumping, stabbing & climbing motions like a trained chimp. That's exactly how I felt with Desmond in any of his segments in past releases. I never cared or liked his character so I just got thru everything I had to in order to get thru the game.
An older protagonist is fine too - I Loved John Marsten in RDR :cool:.... mid 30's is fine but I honestly don't mind them in their 20's either. I remember all the negative comments about Ezio's age in Revelations, so they might not want to go too crazy with "older". ;)

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-07-2015, 01:30 PM
I'm hoping we'll get something new, but if it's the same, hopefully the story "feels" new, if that makes sense.

But from what I've seen from the trailers and gameplay, it doesnt look much like a revenge story, but thats just me.

dxsxhxcx
07-07-2015, 01:56 PM
I don't mind initiation stories, I'm just tired of seeing protagonists who already had some sort of link (usually a family member) with Assassins or Templars before joining them. I'm also tired of seeing the death of relatives serving as wake up call for the ancestor.

RobbedSinPhil
07-07-2015, 02:43 PM
Ubisoft is that dumb, they are about to rush Syndicate out and still a long way from fixing stability issues of unity and looks like they given up on fixing. Though with all the apologies they have not taken unity off market. I cant think of many industries you are allowed to sell a faulty product after identifying faults, Most are obliged to do full product recall, I just wish some government would start applying same consumer laws to program developers as rest of us have to follow. Just once I would like a game developer finish a product then organise release instead of organising release then giving us shoddy half finished product,

who-can-i-be
07-07-2015, 08:59 PM
Remember that Jacob and Evie were trained by their father. He's going to die at the end of the prologue/ tutorial and they'll move to London to avenge him. Do you really think Ubi's letting their cliches go any time soon?

Namikaze_17
07-07-2015, 09:09 PM
As Spirit said, this doesn't seem like the typical revenge story - at least from what we've seen thus far.

So I trust this will be something different without the usual clichés.

But damn, does it really have to be the father again? How about a grandfather? Uncle? Jesus, man.

EmbodyingSeven5
07-07-2015, 09:11 PM
Lol you are right.I just remembered that arno was half french half austrian.Why?Just why Ubi?

Diversification (:


trololololo

Wolfmeister1010
07-07-2015, 09:14 PM
Players will get to prove their skills as an assassin through Jacob Frye! A brand new assassin who is brash, reckless, and prefers a good fight to sneaking around! He fights the rich government for the rights of the everyman with the hopes of establishing a new era of freedom in the colonies! I mean Paris. Crap, Istanbul?? GRRR I mean England. Pummel enemy gangs into submission, take over enemy controlled camps and districts and grow your super awesome color coded gang to take back Rome! I mean London.

I bet he also likes to crack jokes and "hide his pain behind humor".



Edit: Don't wanna be unfair. I should mention that you can play as an assassin for about 25 percent of the game through the eyes of Evie, the catwoman to Batman of Arkham City!


But seriously we know for a fact that Evie is totally the "second protagonist". Even if all the gameplay footage ( two demos, a story trailer in his point of view, a gameplay trailer centered around him, and a character trailer) we have seen so far is about Jacob, we know they are focusing on Evie as well because they showed a literal 2 second clip of her jumping off a roof in the last second of a jacob e3 demo. Oh, and she also got a weapon trailer. A month after Jacob.


Coming to Ps4, Xbox One, and Ubisoft Kiev's miserable excuse of a PC port this holiday season!

EmbodyingSeven5
07-07-2015, 09:17 PM
Also things like the hundreds of handholding tutorials in AC 3 get on my nerves bad. We didn't even get our robes until sequence 6 for Christ sake! Ubi spends a quarter of the game or more reintroducing the brand in each game, Gets really annoying. Its funny too, because the first AC was extremely vague and threw you right into the conflict.

Ubi needs do that again! Fill me with questions!

As for syndicate, I think it wont be this, Possibly a revenge story, but I don't think it will focuses too much on their initiation.

Namikaze_17
07-07-2015, 09:22 PM
Players will get to prove their skills as an assassin through Jacob Frye! A brand new assassin who is brash, reckless, and prefers a good fight to sneaking around! Pummel enemy gangs into submission, take over enemy controlled camps and districts and grow your super awesome color coded gang to take back Rome! I mean London.

I bet he also likes to crack jokes and "hide his pain behind humor".

Being a bit judgmental aren't we?

GunnerGalactico
07-07-2015, 09:25 PM
Being a bit judgmental aren't we?

It does seem to be taking that particular direction, though.

Namikaze_17
07-07-2015, 09:30 PM
It does seem to be taking that particular direction, though.

But it's never what it seems.

*looks at Edward*

Hans684
07-07-2015, 09:30 PM
It does seem to be taking that particular direction, though.

They could make Jacob Jack The Ripper, a different direction instead of the same ol' story

EmbodyingSeven5
07-07-2015, 09:36 PM
But it's never what it seems.

*looks at Edward*
I just hope Jacob isn't Edward with makeup he found in his London home.
Ohh.......Maybe a mission when we explore Edwards late home and Haythams early one

GunnerGalactico
07-07-2015, 09:41 PM
But it's never what it seems.

*looks at Edward*

You got a point there... as always :rolleyes: ;)


They could make Jacob Jack The Ripper, a different direction instead of the same ol' story


I just hope Jacob isn't Edward with makeup he found in his London home.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m88heriBEH1rziwwco1_500.gif

Namikaze_17
07-07-2015, 10:58 PM
You got a point there... as always :rolleyes: ;)

Oh, stop you. :rolleyes: ;)

Xstantin
07-07-2015, 11:12 PM
Oh, and she also got a weapon trailer. A month after Jacob.


which is narrated by Jacob lmao

I do hate color coded gangs though

D.I.D.
07-08-2015, 12:39 AM
They could make Jacob Jack The Ripper, a different direction instead of the same ol' story

No they can't, unless they come back to him as a much older man in a later game. This one's 1868 and it's 1868 only.

Wolfmeister1010
07-08-2015, 01:37 AM
To be honest, I don't care at all. For me, the appeal of AC now is just gameplay. Good old fun. The story just..eh..doesnt do it for me anymore.


My one big worry is the graphics. That's the only thing that actually seems WRONG.

Just the toning down of lighting, textures, and draw distance, which were already questionable in Unity, is weird, considering that not only is DX12 coming out before this game releases, but the performance issues in Unity have already been all but fixed. I get a constant 60 fps on my PC.


I just....really REALLY hope that we can increase the draw distance in graphics options..IDK. This isn't PC thread.


The way they want to do side missions seems cool. I like the changes to parkour and stealth. I like two protagonists. I like the idea of a mobile train base. I like the idea of the economy. I like the carriages. I like the introduction of a more dynamic and integral neutral police faction.

But THIS

http://imgur.com/1078qXQ

This is less of a graphical "nitpick" and more of a complete horror that seems like a glitch.


But anyway, back on topic, I don't think the story will be about revenge, or initiation-since they were born into the assassins. I think the story will be fresh. But, if it's GOOD remains to be seen.

Hans684
07-08-2015, 08:21 AM
No they can't, unless they come back to him as a much older man in a later game. This one's 1868 and it's 1868 only.

Exactly, so they can

Sorrosyss
07-08-2015, 11:32 AM
Well we already know there is dlc coming. Would be a stretch to jump forward twenty years or so, but possible. I'd be surprised if they skipped the Ripper entirely, especially with the supposed theories of connections to the masons, and thus the Templars. Would be a twist, if it ended up being Jacob (amg Jack!), as we'd have an Assassin falling to the Templar order. Another Shay, so to speak.

D.I.D.
07-08-2015, 12:40 PM
Exactly, so they can

But that would be a story in which either:

- a much older Jacob viciously murders a bunch of sex workers in the most disgusting ways, or

- the Templars frame Jacob for those same murders and he has to catch the real culprit.

It would either be offensive, dull, or offensive and dull. I don't think many people would want to play as a Ripper protagonist. Capturing the Ripper would become a tired routine as you failed to catch the real killer the requisite number of times - you could pretty much count them off until you'd be allowed to win.

The lore already has one very interesting late-Victorian plot. I want to see the William Robert Woodman storyline.

Hans684
07-08-2015, 01:07 PM
But that would be a story in which either:

- a much older Jacob viciously murders a bunch of sex workers in the most disgusting ways, or

As far as I'm aware most characters in AC is muderers, Jack is nothing in comparison. Brutal? Yes, but the can be said about most characters.


- the Templars frame Jacob for those same murders and he has to catch the real culprit.

Could work that to, but compared to the other one it plays it safer


It would either be offensive, dull, or offensive and dull. I don't think many people would want to play as a Ripper protagonist.

So it becomes a risky story that isn't typical or to safe.


Capturing the Ripper would become a tired routine as you failed to catch the real killer the requisite number of times - you could pretty much count them off until you'd be allowed to win.

If they do it that way we shouldn't win and capture him either, his identity is unknown. Having him disappear and the killings stop sounds far more exiting.


The lore already has one very interesting late-Victorian plot. I want to see the William Robert Woodman storyline.

From Prodject Legacy?

EmbodyingSeven5
07-09-2015, 02:39 PM
But that would be a story in which either:

- a much older Jacob viciously murders a bunch of sex workers in the most disgusting ways, or

- the Templars frame Jacob for those same murders and he has to catch the real culprit.

It would either be offensive, dull, or offensive and dull. I don't think many people would want to play as a Ripper protagonist. Capturing the Ripper would become a tired routine as you failed to catch the real killer the requisite number of times - you could pretty much count them off until you'd be allowed to win.

The lore already has one very interesting late-Victorian plot. I want to see the William Robert Woodman storyline.

Or Evie hunts Jacob down to kill him after he breaks the creed.

rob.davies2014
07-09-2015, 02:58 PM
The lore already has one very interesting late-Victorian plot. I want to see the William Robert Woodman storyline.

I really hope they include this story in some way, even if they just mention it. If it gets ignored then it shows that AC is not an integrated brand as Ubisoft claims it is.

I really wonder whether we'll ever here more about all those things from Project Legacy e.g. Consus, Erudito...

EmbodyingSeven5
07-09-2015, 04:52 PM
I really hope they include this story in some way, even if they just mention it. If it gets ignored then it shows that AC is not an integrated brand as Ubisoft claims it is.

I really wonder whether we'll ever here more about all those things from Project Legacy e.g. Consus, Erudito...

I heard before that Erudito was dismissed, or found out......... Think it was revealed in the AC4 multiplayer game. Check the wiki in case.

Sorrosyss
07-11-2015, 01:32 AM
Erudito were mentioned twice in Unity, so they are very much still around.

And it was apparently announced at the SDCC panel that the Frye twins' father died of natural causes. There goes that revenge theory! :p

I-Like-Pie45
07-11-2015, 01:35 AM
cement garden dlc

Wolfmeister1010
07-11-2015, 01:41 AM
Oh lordie, this new animated trailer perfectly encompasses...oh lordie


"Jacob! a story about Jacob and Jacob's exploits and Jacob's voiceover and Jacob's fight for the people



Oh, and Evie's also there..sometimes..somewhere behind Jacob usually."




SHE GRUNTED THOUGH. DID YOU HEAR THAT? I HEARD HER GRUNT WHEN SHE THREW THE GUY OFF THE TRAIN.

I-Like-Pie45
07-11-2015, 01:45 AM
given that this is great britain you already know that jacob is going to lose