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View Full Version : Ubisoft mistake - Why AC is no longer exciting



STDlyMcStudpants
05-08-2015, 06:31 PM
*All is opinion, try not to take offense*
I used to look forward to Assassins Creed every year.
Assassin's Creed 3 was the very last AC game I've been excited for and I ask myself why..
It wasnt because I was disappointed, AC3 is my favorite game in the series....
It's because Ubi killed the Arch, making Assassin's Creed just another 2k Sports or Call of Duty game
I LOVE new Assassins just as much as the next guy, but they would mean A HECK OF A LOT MORE if you finished the stories of previous protagonists... otherwise it feels like we are in a car that stalls at the top of a hill and rolls back down EVERY SINGLE YEAR.....
Every year since AC3 we just hit the reset button.
from AC4 onward, the games no longer feel connected or conclusive
I may be speaking only for myself, but I don't want new experiences without conclusions to old experiences..
A lack of a continued arch in the modern day or even more so a lack of conclusion in our Assassin's story makes Assassin's Creed so unsatisfying to finish,
It's beginning to feel like wasted effort.. I know it's just a game, but 3 years ago it felt like more than just a game.
People would cry about the Ezio sequels, but IMO, THAT is when Ubi had it right and I would love for them to go back to this, or at the very least spread the campaign out longer to give us a satisfying conclusion to EVERY main character.
I would much rather have AC 3.5 AC4 AC 4.5 AC 5 AC 5.5 etc
Than AC3 - no conclusion - AC4 - only a book conclusion - ACR - No conclusion ACU - Waste of complete time
It may just be me.. but the idea of new assassins no longer excites me when the others are really treated as dust in the wind.... to be forgotten in 6 months

D.I.D.
05-08-2015, 07:05 PM
So you want two cliffhangers and a conclusion for each character? I don't think that would fix the problem all by itself, and chains of stories spanning years of releases are not a good way to attract new customers.

AC3 did have a conclusion. Connor got to the end of his run assisting the birth of this new nation, and we heard his monologue about his mixed feelings. That's where it should have ended.

AC4 did have a conclusion. Edward chased riches for his family, and lost his way. He got his ending, and it was an unusual, welcome surprise to many. That was a good place to stop his story.

ACU has a conclusion, but I don't think I've seen anyone say they liked it. Maybe someone did.

20-40 hours should be plenty of time to complete a satisfying story. Great books tend to give you a spellbinding window into the most interesting period of a character's life, and the rest is left up to your imagination. A lot of poor-quality stories, especially in the fantasy genres, try to cheat their way to that reputation via over-application of EPIC. Here's your character. He/she is a MASSIVE HERO. Here's that person's whole life, from cradle to grave. No stone left unturned! Are you not entertained? And I'm not.

Sushiglutton
05-08-2015, 07:26 PM
I agree with DID that AC3 and AC4 had good endings. A story doesn't have to end with the protagonist dying. I'm no fan of the modern day and I don't think it's that important to connect the game. On the contrary I think the attempt to connect AC4 to MD made its story worse as it resulted in the TWCB-artifact cliché.


For me the main issues are not story but gameplay related.

1) AC lacks a real gameplay hook, aka the mechanics are clunky, don't give you enough room to be imaginative/creative, have low skill ceiling.
2) Too much of the content (missions and side stuff) feels massproduced, stale and unengaging.


What AC needs to do:

1) Get rid lowest quality stuff (aka the abundant collectibles, chests etc).
2) Make sure everything has a narrative context (like real quests in an RPG).
3) Stop reusing mission types like tackle and eavesdropping that were not fun to begin with.
4) Combat/Parkour needs to be improved according to the ideals I mentioned above.
5) Stealth basics (cover system, detection and so on) needs to be rock solid at this point.

Civona
05-08-2015, 09:13 PM
AC3 was the game that sold me on one protagonist per game, no direct sequels. After playing through Connor's story and being so satisfied with its self-contained arc, I realized that they didn't really NEED to do three Ezio games to tell a complete story. They didn't need to follow him to his death to give us closure, a single story could have done that if it were well-written enough.

This is the form this series was always meant to take, and it's much more interesting to me. I get that some people were happy with the idea of longer stays with characters, but that's never been what interested me about AC. I want AC to tell good stories, and not rely on my affection for a pre-existing character to make me enjoy said stories.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-08-2015, 09:38 PM
It's fine that you disagree with me, but I disagree with the rebuttals...
Id like to point out to Sushi that this is a thread about HYPE not overall game....
There are tons of things I could say about the gameplay.. but the series' magic has been lost.
AC4-ACU have felt like throwaway games.
AC's hook is social stealth and time traveling
It doesnt need mechanics and gimmicks.. infact that is whats RUINING the series gameplay wise...
The fans are ruining the series with wanting environmental stealth...
With wanting a combat system that took effort rather than being swift and satisfying...
AC Unity was what people have cried for since Revelations and when they got it they hated it....
We don't need death for closure, but Connor leading the Assassins in America, being in his early 30s is far from closure.
If AC3 wasnt the plan to be the final game during AC2s production, Connor would have gotten a sequel...
Plain and simple... There is SO much that can be done with where his story left off but they werent prepared for it...
I wouldnt be surprised if ACIV was a new IP and they put that ips mechanics in AC3 as a teaser and later turned it into an AC game when they realized they couldnt stop with the success of ezio...
Im not asking for cliff hangers.. im asking for complete stories....
AC4s conclusion was in a book.. he does die tragically.. would much rather play that story than read it...
AC Unity was a waste of time.. it had nothing... just nothing... really a pointless game.
It was more of a whats to come demo than a ture Assassins game...

Shahkulu101
05-08-2015, 11:00 PM
I agree with you but in retrospect the lore that engaged me back in the day looks kind of ridiculous and I'm like..."I enjoyed this?"

While events may have been connected, while there may have been an arc - it never came close to a satisfying series of stories. Too many things were unexplained, explained poorly or forgotten about so really I don't know why everyone is mourning the loss of the heap of mess that the lore of Assassin's Creed was.

I should say though, that if they're going to give the lore less relevance then at least make the parts you do focus on interesting. AC4 achieved this, unity was god awful in the historical story department. Or sort of half-reboot the series and create an entirely new base of canon that distances itself from the AC of old (without making past events untrue) but is intriguing on it's own.

Hans684
05-08-2015, 11:07 PM
ACU has a conclusion, but I don't think I've seen anyone say they liked it. Maybe someone did.

Except Unity disagree with that, the game itself says the hunt for the Sage is a waste of time. So it having a conclusion is pointless either way, filler is filler regardless.

pacmanate
05-08-2015, 11:18 PM
Except Unity disagree with that, the game itself says the hunt for the Sage is a waste of time. So it having a conclusion is pointless either way, filler is filler regardless.

It basically made the whole game filler.

Hans684
05-08-2015, 11:29 PM
It basically made the whole game filler.

More filler than Liberation, now that's low standards for a triple-A game.

Namikaze_17
05-08-2015, 11:50 PM
And thus, the naruto-esque filler continues for AC.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-09-2015, 03:15 AM
It basically made the whole game filler.

Exactly... I loved unity as a game without AC attached to it.. but WITH AC attached to it, it was basically spitting in the fans face from the very beginning with that select menu then spit followed by a kick to the groin with that thanks for accomplishing nothing in 40 hours ending

DA SHIZZLE IG
05-09-2015, 03:16 AM
You are absolutely right, Most of us smart fans have noticed that ubisoft just got greedy and stopped caring about the plot after AC3. I honestly believe that AC4 was supposed to have moved the plot along but at the last minute they was like "Man we making soooo much money off this series, lets slow it down a bit and milk it". Then they went back in and only put a little bit of what happened after AC3 and made up sages to prolong the story. After AC4 the big announcement talking about making hella more AC games dropped. That right there got us scratching our heads after that huge tease/letdown ac4 left us with.

Lets be real here, we really are into the AC series because of it amazing unique story. When they started screwing with that after leaving us with that epic cliffhanger in AC3. A huge blow was dealt to AC's hype. It's what had us so hype about AC4 in the first place. So we let that huge tease in AC4 go(gave them a pass cause the game was a prequel) and looked forward to the next game. We get news that they are releasing not one, but TWO games around the same time. Now the hype is mixed with confusion. Ubisoft made it even worse by not revealing much of the plots of the two games. The main question of these two games was "SO, ARE WE FINALLY GONNA FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED AFTER AC3? ARE THEY GONNA CONTINUE WITH THE STORY!?" etc etc. So we get the games and they didn't deliver what we were all waiting on(especially unity).

Rogue was basically a prequel that set the stage for AC3 & Unity. We already knew rogue wasn't really gonna impact the main story because they were focusing so much on the next gen "Unity" AC game. So that was our holy grail, the savior we have been waiting for. The hype was really high for unity and the hype was huge for rogue only because it told a side of the templars story. The nail in the coffin for the hype was unity almost not even having any kind of involvement in the main plot(except for the sword lol). AC4, ROGUE, and UNITY are like filler and side stories. After removing multiplayer and not speaking on any future plans on bringing it back. That was just throwing dirt on the coffin(what genius thought that was a good idea? people are still playing ACR, 3, and 4 now).

Now the hype is just in limbo lol. Victory /Syndicate(whatever they are going to call it) is just a toss up now. Us smart AC fans are starting to realize that they have went in the C.O.D/madden direction. People aren't sure if they want to spend damn near $100 on another filler/side story AC game with no multiplayer(to prolong the game) again. We all waiting to see if they are gonna give us what got us all hype and addicted to the series.

DA SHIZZLE IG
05-09-2015, 03:32 AM
And rogue had sooo much potential smh. They didn't even release any DLC for it smh. It was actually better than unity and more entertaining. If only they would have spent more time on it or released it for next gen. How the game you spend lest time on end up being better than the game you put all your money behind? That game seemed to be unfinished and took up more space(500MB) than any other AC game(still didn't get an answer on this). Game didn't have multiplayer and was the shortest AC game. No plans for ADD - ON DLC either smh. Don't even know what happened to shay, The guy who basically created arno and set the stage for AC3.

Highly doubt any of this will be addressed in the new game. Them games did nothing but create more questions and dodged the main storyline.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-09-2015, 03:38 AM
I appreciate what Rogue did SO much... it tied
Adawale > Achilies > Connor
and Haythem > Shay > Arno
It connected the dots from AC 4 to AC3 to AC Unity
BUT it left Arno, Connor and even Shay out to dry....
Shay learned about Connor from Arnos father.....
Why is the next game NOT a Shay Vs Connor game?
This would FINALLY tie the universe back together and give closure to everyone except Arno
And FINALLY bring the excitement back to the series!

Mr.Black24
05-09-2015, 03:46 AM
I appreciate what Rogue did SO much... it tied
Adawale > Achilies > Connor
and Haythem > Shay > Arno
It connected the dots from AC 4 to AC3 to AC Unity
BUT it left Arno, Connor and even Shay out to dry....
Shay learned about Connor from Arnos father.....
Why is the next game NOT a Shay Vs Connor game?
This would FINALLY tie the universe back together and give closure to everyone except Arno
And FINALLY bring the excitement back to the series! Agreed, When you look at the endings of AC3, AC Liberation, AC Rogue, and AC Unity, it has a epic lore build up for something final. But it was all dropped for Syndicate.

Arno does need closure on one thing. Arno would be curious to how his father died, and when fellow Assassin/Revolutionary Connor takes wind of Shay and the Box, he'd let Arno knows whats up, since Connor and Charles were aware of each other in 1776, hence Charles commenting that Connor was kicking Templars left and right, and once Connor realizes that he had the Box, which is now in Shay's hands, he is going to put 2 and 2 together and try to get Arno to join the fight. When you look at the endings of AC3, AC Liberation, AC Rogue, and AC Unity, it has a epic lore build up for something final. But it was all dropped for Syndicate.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-09-2015, 04:36 AM
Agreed, When you look at the endings of AC3, AC Liberation, AC Rogue, and AC Unity, it has a epic lore build up for something final. But it was all dropped for Syndicate.

Arno does need closure on one thing. Arno would be curious to how his father died, and when fellow Assassin/Revolutionary Connor takes wind of Shay and the Box, he'd let Arno knows whats up, since Connor and Charles were aware of each other in 1776, hence Charles commenting that Connor was kicking Templars left and right, and once Connor realizes that he had the Box, which is now in Shay's hands, he is going to put 2 and 2 together and try to get Arno to join the fight. When you look at the endings of AC3, AC Liberation, AC Rogue, and AC Unity, it has a epic lore build up for something final. But it was all dropped for Syndicate.

I thought about bringing Arno into the fight Connor and Arno teaming up to take out shay, but Shay is already in his mid 50's by the end of AC3/when he learns about connor and would be nearing his 70s be the end of Unity...
So arno is gonna have to sit this one out... lol
Maybe Connors robes hanging in Arnos house indicates he dies within 10 years of Shay learning of him... maybe he sacrifices himself to take out shay

Stealth Gamer92
05-09-2015, 05:02 AM
I thought about bringing Arno into the fight Connor and Arno teaming up to take out shay, but Shay is already in his mid 50's by the end of AC3/when he learns about connor and would be nearing his 70s be the end of Unity...
So arno is gonna have to sit this one out... lol
Maybe Connors robes hanging in Arnos house indicates he dies within 10 years of Shay learning of him... maybe he sacrifices himself to take out shay

Please. More like Shay whuped Connor's sorry butt and Arno tracks down the man wh9o killed his father eventually running into Connors brotherhood who give him a name and tell him of Connors fight with Shay where Shay killed him with us playing as Connor being overwhelmed by Shay in a flashback. Arno then finds Shay hears his "Why I did what I did" speach then kills him(no fight as Shay has accepted his fate). Arno goes and tells Connors brotherhood Shay is dead and they give him Connor's robes as a reward.

pirate1802
05-09-2015, 12:08 PM
Because ofcourse, a story is only conclusive because it ends with the protagonist's death.

D.I.D.
05-09-2015, 12:24 PM
I think the stalemate at the moment should have been handled via the modern day. The tail-end of Juno's story via Desmond's has trailed on way too long, where now it's become the tease for the entire series. We probably won't see it end until the series ends, unless Ubisoft changes course.

I've said this many times, but AC needs to do what long-running comic series do. It needs to look at multi-threaded stories as a wall made up of bricks, and to have stories start and end within it while others continue into the next tale. They should have the big showdown with Juno, and have her properly defeated, and soon. In the process of winning, the assassins discover that its vital for the future of humanity that they continue to find more artefacts, but also learn that wandering into these sites means risking the discovery of more preserved TWCB, maybe in the systems in the walls of the shrines or even in the workings of the artefacts themselves.

That way, you've got options. New personalities can come forward. Sometimes they'll be bad for us, and sometimes they'll be good for us. Either way, the risk of the Templars getting to them means the assassins must get there first, but every time there's a tension surrounding the discovery. It would free up some stories to be entirely history-based, and others to involve PoEs, and others to involve interactions with one of these sleeping consciousnesses.

pacmanate
05-09-2015, 01:50 PM
Rogue was definitely better in terms of story.

Unity better in mechanics and animation.

Its a shame that what one game did well last year, the other lacked. Hopefully we get a combination of what Rogue and Unity did well in AC:S

VestigialLlama4
05-09-2015, 02:48 PM
Rogue was definitely better in terms of story.

No it wasn't. Rogue is meaningless outside the context of AC3 and Black Flag, it can't stand on its own legs. Rogue at best is good fanfiction, but good fanfiction is bad storytelling.


Its a shame that what one game did well last year, the other lacked. Hopefully we get a combination of what Rogue and Unity did well in AC:S

Ideally they should do something totally different. AC3 and Black Flag did something different from AC1 and AC2, new kind of characters, new kind of plots and stories. That's what Victory/Syndicate should do, maybe introduce multiple protagonists. We are living in the post-GtaV era after all, open-world gaming no longer has to be this limited shallow thing.

pacmanate
05-09-2015, 02:53 PM
No it wasn't. Rogue is meaningless outside the context of AC3 and Black Flag, it can't stand on its own legs. Rogue at best is good fanfiction, but good fanfiction is bad storytelling.


How is it meaningless? We finally got to find out what the box does, and had a great first civ site

rprkjj
05-09-2015, 03:25 PM
No it wasn't. Rogue is meaningless outside the context of AC3 and Black Flag, it can't stand on its own legs. Rogue at best is good fanfiction, but good fanfiction is bad storytelling.



Ideally they should do something totally different. AC3 and Black Flag did something different from AC1 and AC2, new kind of characters, new kind of plots and stories. That's what Victory/Syndicate should do, maybe introduce multiple protagonists. We are living in the post-GtaV era after all, open-world gaming no longer has to be this limited shallow thing.

If they were going to do it at all, I would prefer they make an Arno-Connor-Shay game so we can be rid of all the incessant plot points that aren't relevant anymore. It would be a way for the series to start fresh.

VestigialLlama4
05-09-2015, 03:27 PM
How is it meaningless? We finally got to find out what the box does, and had a great first civ site

If AC games are entirely about the MacGuffin, Lore and the First Civ then they are bad games by default.

The Box is the McGuffin, the great whatsit that the plot revolves around. The open world is America during the Seven Years War. That is what you explore when you aren't doing the missions, that is the setting of the side missions and the conflict isn't covered in depth at all. Its not tied to anything outside the game's lore and without that there's no freshness, no spirit and no innovation. Without that you are just killing targets because the HUD told you to and that is crappy crappy storytelling.

VestigialLlama4
05-09-2015, 03:33 PM
If they were going to do it at all, I would prefer they make an Arno-Connor-Shay game so we can be rid of all the incessant plot points that aren't relevant anymore. It would be a way for the series to start fresh.

No, that is fanfiction storytelling. What reason would Arno-Shay-Connor have to interact aside from dealing with some minor backstory elements? What new gameplay and historical period can that interaction cover and deal with. All I ask is a minimum some database entry telling what they did later, that is fine. in Rogue, we find out what Edward did in England, he mostly travelled the world and did archeology of many first-civ sites, mostly endless Tomb levels in different parts, okay that is it.

I don't need an Edward-in-London game if its going to be more about Edward and less about London. If they are going to do a game set in the Seven Years War, it should be about the Seven Years War, it shouldn't be some stupid backstory lore which didn't need clearing up at all, since the information was concisely expressed in AC3 already. ROGUE doesn't work on its own legs, without the connections to Black Flag, AC3 and UNITY the game is dead. The only important part is the database entries and the War Letters, stuff that could have worked if they put in INITIATES.

rprkjj
05-09-2015, 03:52 PM
No, that is fanfiction storytelling. What reason would Arno-Shay-Connor have to interact aside from dealing with some minor backstory elements? What new gameplay and historical period can that interaction cover and deal with. All I ask is a minimum some database entry telling what they did later, that is fine. in Rogue, we find out what Edward did in England, he mostly travelled the world and did archeology of many first-civ sites, mostly endless Tomb levels in different parts, okay that is it.

I don't need an Edward-in-London game if its going to be more about Edward and less about London. If they are going to do a game set in the Seven Years War, it should be about the Seven Years War, it shouldn't be some stupid backstory lore which didn't need clearing up at all, since the information was concisely expressed in AC3 already. ROGUE doesn't work on its own legs, without the connections to Black Flag, AC3 and UNITY the game is dead. The only important part is the database entries and the War Letters, stuff that could have worked if they put in INITIATES.

I see your point. I was just spitballing, I would much rather prefer an original setting. I was trying to think up a way to wrap their story up that wouldn't require me to buy transmedia, although with Arno there's a lot there with the Napoleonic Wars and Egypt.

Mr.Black24
05-09-2015, 04:18 PM
If they were going to do it at all, I would prefer they make an Arno-Connor-Shay game so we can be rid of all the incessant plot points that aren't relevant anymore. It would be a way for the series to start fresh. Agreed. I like to finish what I started, plus it would be lore baggage free for future games.

Hans684
05-09-2015, 05:33 PM
How is it meaningless? We finally got to find out what the box does, and had a great first civ site

It isn't since reliving his life impacted the future, we started another purge in MD. That's progress. In a Unity it doesn't matter since the body of the Sage is in a poor contrition, we had no reason to relive his life and it didn't progress anything. Cutting First Civ stuff and MD out because "history only matter" is poor by AC standards. Everything impacts everything(at least should unlike Unity and handhelds). The entire lore is important, what's the most important is just preference/opinion. The ancestors story on their own(without MD and First Civ) would be filler if you go by the entire story. To dismiss the entire story/lore(First Civ, history and MD) you dismiss what AC is. Why is Altaïr important? Because of the map, the Apple Of Eden and the Masyaf Keys. Why is Ezio important? The messages, the Apple Of Eden and Altaïr's Masyaf Keys(and Altaïr). Why is Connor important? The Key etc...

The First Civ influence something in history and we relive those moments to reach a goal in MD. Without the First Civ influence we have no reason at all to relive an ancestors life(like Arno), it would be pointless(like Unity). That's bad writing consider we relive lives in AC to achieve something, without anything to achieve the ancestors life is pointless since the First Civ influence did nothing(like Germain). It Doesn't matter if they do something totally different by having new kind of characters, new kind of plots and stories if those stories doesn't do anything, it's filler by default. A story with nothing to achieve. Point is Rogue has a meaning, a meaningless game is Unity.

TexasCaesar
05-09-2015, 05:56 PM
And thus, the naruto-esque filler continues for AC.

It wouldn't bother me one bit if all the business with the Assassins vs Templars were dropped and we just had a solid historical open-world series.

Sushiglutton
05-09-2015, 06:16 PM
It's fine that you disagree with me, but I disagree with the rebuttals...
Id like to point out to Sushi that this is a thread about HYPE not overall game....
There are tons of things I could say about the gameplay.. but the series' magic has been lost.
AC4-ACU have felt like throwaway games.
AC's hook is social stealth and time traveling
It doesnt need mechanics and gimmicks.. infact that is whats RUINING the series gameplay wise...
The fans are ruining the series with wanting environmental stealth...
With wanting a combat system that took effort rather than being swift and satisfying...
AC Unity was what people have cried for since Revelations and when they got it they hated it....
We don't need death for closure, but Connor leading the Assassins in America, being in his early 30s is far from closure.
If AC3 wasnt the plan to be the final game during AC2s production, Connor would have gotten a sequel...
Plain and simple... There is SO much that can be done with where his story left off but they werent prepared for it...
I wouldnt be surprised if ACIV was a new IP and they put that ips mechanics in AC3 as a teaser and later turned it into an AC game when they realized they couldnt stop with the success of ezio...
Im not asking for cliff hangers.. im asking for complete stories....
AC4s conclusion was in a book.. he does die tragically.. would much rather play that story than read it...
AC Unity was a waste of time.. it had nothing... just nothing... really a pointless game.
It was more of a whats to come demo than a ture Assassins game...


The thing that kills my hype more than anything is recycled gameplay. For example in the E3 demo for Unity there was this moment when a thief robbed someone and it pops up this text "tackle the thief" (or something) and then there's a tackle icon above his head. Seeing stuff like that makes me die a little inside and kills the hype.

Seeing the moronic AI wandering around gives me painful flashbacks of all the anoying moments. Hearing the chests tingle and the guard detection sound likewise. I just don't want to ever deal with that garbage again.

AC4 did have a proper selfcontained ending. That Ubi expanded on it in a book really doesn't bother me. Like I said the biggest issue with AC4's story imo was that the writers were forced to connect it to modern day somehow. I think it would have been better if they could have focused 100% on Edward's story.

Xstantin
05-09-2015, 06:34 PM
For example in the E3 demo for Unity there was this moment when a thief robbed someone and it pops up this text "tackle the thief" (or something) and then there's a tackle icon above his head. Seeing stuff like that makes me die a little inside and kills the hype.

Same here. Ugh. It's a given the game will have an introductory mission where the assassin follows somebody acting as a guide and then tackle some lowlife/Templar associate carrying an important letter lmfao

STDlyMcStudpants
05-09-2015, 06:35 PM
No it wasn't. Rogue is meaningless outside the context of AC3 and Black Flag, it can't stand on its own legs. Rogue at best is good fanfiction, but good fanfiction is bad storytelling.



The fact that Rogue cant stand on its own 2 legs is what makes it great...
Assassin's Creed is a SERIES or atleast is supposed to be... the games should be connected and feed off of eachother
I dont want to see COD/Final Fantasy: New story every year aka series within a series
I want 1 giant story...
Luckily every Assassin has been connected in some way in terms of crossing paths with eachother or important artifacts....
But Shay vs Connor HAS to happen.. why wouldnt it...
Im sure Connor learned of Shay by way of achillies and is hunting him down...
Shay is a threat to the Assassins order and at that time Connor is the most capable of taking him down...


The thing that kills my hype more than anything is recycled gameplay. For example in the E3 demo for Unity there was this moment when a thief robbed someone and it pops up this text "tackle the thief" (or something) and then there's a tackle icon above his head. Seeing stuff like that makes me die a little inside and kills the hype.

Seeing the moronic AI wandering around gives me painful flashbacks of all the anoying moments. Hearing the chests tingle and the guard detection sound likewise. I just don't want to ever deal with that garbage again.

AC4 did have a proper selfcontained ending. That Ubi expanded on it in a book really doesn't bother me. Like I said the biggest issue with AC4's story imo was that the writers were forced to connect it to modern day somehow. I think it would have been better if they could have focused 100% on Edward's story.

AC4 had a GREAT ending, until you learn that the book is the true ending... it feels like a blow and no longer makes AC4s ending satisfying enough...
Id love maybe a flashback like the beginning of unity where we play edward during his final days.. then id be satisfied...
Connor, Shay, Edward, and Arno need a proper GAME ending...
Even if they are fanfiction filler games not about world history...

pirate1802
05-09-2015, 08:13 PM
I knew Edward's fate beforehand and it still didn't make AC IV's ending any less epic.Might be a personal thing but I thought regardless of how Edward died AC IV's story, of him choosing a new path and becoming an assassin was complete enough, with or without the novel. It circles back to the thing I said earlier... when characters die off-game people always think Whoa this was an incomplete story.

VestigialLlama4
05-09-2015, 08:24 PM
The fact that Rogue cant stand on its own 2 legs is what makes it great...
Assassin's Creed is a SERIES or atleast is supposed to be... the games should be connected and feed off of eachother

That would be true if the games didn't jump time, shift locations and settings and new casts.


I dont want to see COD/Final Fantasy: New story every year aka series within a series

Well Zelda does that as well.


I want 1 giant story...

Look Ezio from AC2 to Revelations was one giant story and ultimately Brotherhood and Revelations as well done as they are, just rehash or reiterate the same points from AC2. 1 giant stories never really work, its why TV shows start to suck at Season 3 or why Part 3 is always bad.


But Shay vs Connor HAS to happen.. why wouldnt it...
Im sure Connor learned of Shay by way of achillies and is hunting him down...
Shay is a threat to the Assassins order and at that time Connor is the most capable of taking him down...

Look if Achilles told Connor then he'd also be honest in stating that Shay was largely his fault. Furthermore Shay finds out about Connor in 1777, when Haytham was alive and Connor was active till 1804 by which time Shay would be very, very old. So not happening.


Connor, Shay, Edward, and Arno need a proper GAME ending...
Even if they are fanfiction filler games not about world history...

I agree that they deserve a conclusion, but asking for an EMBERS movie is not fair. Stuff like letters or unlockable information and nuggets on databases is satisfactory. I mean in AC2 the Codex told us all about Altair's later life and it was satisfying and REVELATIONS hardly added anything in detail to it. It was unnecessary really.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-10-2015, 05:59 AM
I knew Edward's fate beforehand and it still didn't make AC IV's ending any less epic.Might be a personal thing but I thought regardless of how Edward died AC IV's story, of him choosing a new path and becoming an assassin was complete enough, with or without the novel. It circles back to the thing I said earlier... when characters die off-game people always think Whoa this was an incomplete story.

No, you're assuming we want them to die.... not true...
When we are handed new info at the end of a story THAT is when its no longer satisfying...
Not the fact that they don't die.. but i would prefer we saw childhood through death
In rogue Ubi even trolls us with Connors death..
There is more to his story that needs to be told to make his tale satisfying...
Playing crockett with george washington isnt enough..
The Americans turn on the natives the very same year Connor is contacted by Juno - Just 5 months later when the treaty of paris is signed
As the leader of the Assassins in the americas, im sure he just sat on his hands and let his brothers and sisters lose their land.

LoyalACFan
05-10-2015, 08:41 AM
While we're speaking of Edward's death, let me just say that, while I'm unequivocally opposed to Disney ditching all Star Wars canon except the movies, I don't think a similar move would be bad for Ubisoft. While it took Star Wars the better part of 40 years to accumulate such a huge expanded universe, AC's canon has turned into an absolute clusterf**k of contradictions and just flat bad writing in under eight years. I say they scrap literally everything that isn't spelled out in the core story of each game, and start fresh with the lore once they've built up enough of a foundation for it to stand on. None of the books, apps, Initiates, Facebook, or email stuff counts anymore (hell, they've already ditched most of the emails from AC1; remember when they said 90+% of Africa was wiped out?)

VestigialLlama4
05-10-2015, 09:30 AM
While we're speaking of Edward's death, let me just say that, while I'm unequivocally opposed to Disney ditching all Star Wars canon except the movies, I don't think a similar move would be bad for Ubisoft. While it took Star Wars the better part of 40 years to accumulate such a huge expanded universe, AC's canon has turned into an absolute clusterf**k of contradictions and just flat bad writing in under eight years. I say they scrap literally everything that isn't spelled out in the core story of each game, and start fresh with the lore once they've built up enough of a foundation for it to stand on. None of the books, apps, Initiates, Facebook, or email stuff counts anymore (hell, they've already ditched most of the emails from AC1; remember when they said 90+% of Africa was wiped out?)

Technically this is true of all the Bowden novels until FORSAKEN, none of them were canon. Its only the last three books (FORSAKEN, Black Flag, UNITY) that are canon. And you know all three books are done in the form of character journals which means you can always put it to unreliable narrator and say its been tampered with, or call it a forgery or whatnot. I don't like that attitude but its true of many real-life journals and diaries.

FORSAKEN is canon in the games. Its there in ROGUE's database and Otso Berg's videos and as much as I hate Rogue, claiming that Rogue and Unity is not-canon means that theoretically any game after AC1 is not-canon. Ideally what they should have done with BLACK FLAG is kind of suggest or create a way for Edward to have maybe faked-his-death, create a new mystery around him and leave a door open you know.

I am not a fan of reboots and retcons. If you write a bad story and wasted a good character, move on and do a better job next time. Trying to fix a mess of a bad story is not going to do anyone any favors and you know in comic books you have had the same problems with each new writer wanting to fix or correct or overexplain or make a big deal of a minor thing in the backstory and because of that you have total garbage that passes for storytelling in comics. People get stuck in the same mess and make it even bigger.

That's why Zelda has the best continuity system. Its fantasy, there's reincarnation, so every Link-Zelda-Ganon is different and every story is singular and complete to itself.

pirate1802
05-10-2015, 09:42 AM
When we are handed new info at the end of a story THAT is when its no longer satisfying...
Why?


but i would prefer we saw childhood through death
Ah.. that's why.

Well i have no such problems. I've seen stories that cover far less, a few days of a protagonist's life and yet they are complete and I wouldn't want then to be sullied by adding useless stuff at the end (not talking about Just AC IV here.) Maybe because I see a story or a game not just as a bland compilation of a character's life and times but something more meaningful.
Btw the novel was out far far before Black Flag was, and we all knew his fate before the game was even announced, so it is less a case of being handed new info after the game but more like before. :p

crash_1232015
05-10-2015, 12:21 PM
I think whats missing is the element of mystery in the story, I miss AC2 where you genuinely felt like Ezio must have felt, no idea of these two warring factions that were completely in the shadows - there was so much to learn and find out, the game used to make you ant to explore and delve deeper into the assassins creed universe. Whereas the last few games have been, learn some easy combat/kill skills then go and kill and load of people, simple as. its gets boring after a while. a more detailed storyline with loads of depth, mystery and surprises is absolutely crucial to getting this series back on track. ACU tried to surprise us with Bellec turning out to be some fanatic bad guy (sorry for the spoiler) but it had no where near as much impact as it should have done.

rprkjj
05-10-2015, 12:39 PM
Technically this is true of all the Bowden novels until FORSAKEN, none of them were canon. Its only the last three books (FORSAKEN, Black Flag, UNITY) that are canon. And you know all three books are done in the form of character journals which means you can always put it to unreliable narrator and say its been tampered with, or call it a forgery or whatnot. I don't like that attitude but its true of many real-life journals and diaries.

FORSAKEN is canon in the games. Its there in ROGUE's database and Otso Berg's videos and as much as I hate Rogue, claiming that Rogue and Unity is not-canon means that theoretically any game after AC1 is not-canon. Ideally what they should have done with BLACK FLAG is kind of suggest or create a way for Edward to have maybe faked-his-death, create a new mystery around him and leave a door open you know.

I am not a fan of reboots and retcons. If you write a bad story and wasted a good character, move on and do a better job next time. Trying to fix a mess of a bad story is not going to do anyone any favors and you know in comic books you have had the same problems with each new writer wanting to fix or correct or overexplain or make a big deal of a minor thing in the backstory and because of that you have total garbage that passes for storytelling in comics. People get stuck in the same mess and make it even bigger.

That's why Zelda has the best continuity system. Its fantasy, there's reincarnation, so every Link-Zelda-Ganon is different and every story is singular and complete to itself.

I don't see how any of that prevents Ubi from ret conning transmedia lore. If it's not in the games, its not canon. Just because there may be references to the transmedia in the games doesn't mean the entirety of that transmedia has to be canon, it would just mean whatever part that game references if acknowledges is canon.

Altair1789
05-10-2015, 08:30 PM
While we're speaking of Edward's death, let me just say that, while I'm unequivocally opposed to Disney ditching all Star Wars canon except the movies, I don't think a similar move would be bad for Ubisoft. While it took Star Wars the better part of 40 years to accumulate such a huge expanded universe, AC's canon has turned into an absolute clusterf**k of contradictions and just flat bad writing in under eight years. I say they scrap literally everything that isn't spelled out in the core story of each game, and start fresh with the lore once they've built up enough of a foundation for it to stand on. None of the books, apps, Initiates, Facebook, or email stuff counts anymore (hell, they've already ditched most of the emails from AC1; remember when they said 90+% of Africa was wiped out?)

I agree with this. A clean slate in the story is much better than having so many contradictions

VestigialLlama4
05-10-2015, 08:34 PM
I agree with this. A clean slate in the story is much better than having so many contradictions

That right there is pure Templar thinking.

pacmanate
05-10-2015, 10:47 PM
I agree with this. A clean slate in the story is much better than having so many contradictions

I know what you mean, but splitting stuff now would be splitting the fanbase too.

For example we've already got to the point where something can be common knowledge for a fan who looks at everything outside the game, is a spoiler for anyone who doesn't.

To then say some stuff is cannon and some is not destroys the franchise even though it makes it simplistic because the stuff outside the game is actually deep and interesting. The problem is there is too much. I think that stuff that is said outside of games should somehow work their way INTO future games rather than being left on the side.

Defalt221
05-11-2015, 12:58 PM
That right there is pure Templar thinking.

OMG! A TEMPLAR MIND SLAVE!

Anyway. AC games nowadays lack the following things:
-A mystery. You could sense something bigger going on in AC2. And the ending didn't answer every questions allowing gamers to invest on lore by exploring the in-game world.
-Innovation.
-Fun-factor but realistic.
-Variety.

Kakuzu745
05-11-2015, 07:07 PM
Every single thing that the AC games seem to be missing now is because of the yearly releases. That drained most of the excitement.