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View Full Version : Why don't IL2 pilots react when attacked?



jamieandnici
01-11-2004, 10:06 AM
Another question that I have been keen to know for a while now.....!

During missions whilst flying in my trusty IL2 with my squadron it has been attacked by enemy fighters but my AI pilots don't do any defensive manoeuvres or even go on the offensive. Instead they continue to cruise in formation and get shot out of the sky by the Bf110 and Bf109s that attack us. It is then up to me to either try to fight the nme a/cs myself or I have to tell the pilots to help me (using tab for radio they pressing no.7 key) to get them to react to the obviuos threat. Why is this? Answers please!!!

jamieandnici
01-11-2004, 10:06 AM
Another question that I have been keen to know for a while now.....!

During missions whilst flying in my trusty IL2 with my squadron it has been attacked by enemy fighters but my AI pilots don't do any defensive manoeuvres or even go on the offensive. Instead they continue to cruise in formation and get shot out of the sky by the Bf110 and Bf109s that attack us. It is then up to me to either try to fight the nme a/cs myself or I have to tell the pilots to help me (using tab for radio they pressing no.7 key) to get them to react to the obviuos threat. Why is this? Answers please!!!

AirBot
01-11-2004, 02:03 PM
Limitations of the AI, mostly. They've been programmed not to react, so they don't.
Anyway, going on the offensive against fighters in the IL-2 is usually useless, although some defensive tactics to make yourself a more difficult target are probably in order.

Mike_Green
01-11-2004, 02:20 PM
It's not quite as stupid as it looks. My experience is that bomber formations will, as you say, continue straught and level when attacked. This is the correct behaviour for most bombers, to get the benefit of the combined defensive fire of the formation.
However, if a bomber becomes separated from its formation, it will start to take evasive action.

How disciplined a real Il2 formation would be in maintaining formation under fighter attack, or indeed, whether they did try to stick together or broke up and scattered, I do not know.

Previously known round these parts as mikeyg007

mllaneza
01-11-2004, 02:33 PM
I've been seeing this in a DGEN P-39 campaign. We'll launch 6 planes with 250kg bombs and get intercepted by 109s. The P-39s that get attacked drop bombs and maneuver, the others continue on. I've had some luck getting shots on 109s with gentle maneuvering while retaining the bomb. No hits yet, sad to say.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

jamieandnici
01-11-2004, 02:47 PM
Thanx for the help guys for shedding some light on the matter. Much appreciated.

BerkshireHunt
01-11-2004, 03:25 PM
I'm re- reading The War Diary of Helmut Lipfert, who flew with JG52 in the Crimea and Kuban from 1942. Things that I thought questionable about FB are actually confirmed by him- everything from the size of Russian flight formations (threes and fours, sometimes even a single fighter sent out alone), the weather, the appearance of airfields (the Germans called them 'picnic sites'), the effect of weapons (always machine guns first- finish off with the MK108) and the toughness of the IL2. There is a long description of a flight during which he attacked an IL2 (in a 109G2) making very little impression on it at first- the pilot just carried on stolidly towards his target seemingly not bothered by the fact that he had a Messerschmitt behind him. Lipfert attacked again, pieces flew off and still the Russian carried on. After three or four such attacks, with Lipfert opening up with everything he had (at 30 metres range) the machine slowly went down and the pilot bailed. He was impressed by the fearlessness of the Soviet pilot.
In general the book shows what an incredibly accurate sim FB is- it should be required reading before you play an eastern front scenario.
Some other things he says:
Pe2s very regarded as very dangerous to attack because of their high speed and rearward pointing twin machine guns. His Gruppenkommandeur would not let rookies attack them.
Lipfert did not favour attacking IL2s from beneath- his friend Peter Duttman had done so only to be littered with aerial mines thrown from the Sturmovik- his 109 received damage to its wing. Because of this Lipfert attacked IL2s from directly behind "I just decided not to see the gunner's bullets."
MK108s really did transform the scene- he records that aircraft would literally explode in a ball of flame when hit- but not every 109 in his unit had one fitted, most still had 20mm cannon. These weapons were not as reliable as in FB- at one point he thought he was cursed because he had so many jams on so many missions ("just one machine gun worked- but I attacked the LaGG anyway.")
Eventually he (like his best friend Heino 'Wimmersal' Sachsenberg and Erich Hartmann) came close to a nervous breakdown due to the pressure of operations in the East.
There is much more- if you buy it you won't be dissappointed.

LEXX_Luthor
01-11-2004, 04:18 PM
Interesting.

Word search for The War Diary of Helmut Lipfert turned up alot of stuff. 20-25 $ generally new.

Thanks.

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jamieandnici
01-12-2004, 01:48 PM
Sounds like a great read