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View Full Version : *Spoilers* ACC China...huh? Conflicting Lore?



Mr.Black24
05-04-2015, 03:42 AM
So I just saw a walkthrough of the game....and the lore of Shao's motives were conflicting from the start.

Now I need for you to look at this scene from Embers at 3:40, than at the scene at 12:28-13:35:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npaG_au4ov4

Now look at the ending scene here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1r4t_FhTs

See the problem here? Shao Jun's journey was never about vengeance in the first place. I don't understand how it was so, when she said to Ezio from the start, she wanted to save all of China, as well as restore her fallen Brotherhood. Like how is it that at the end of the game, she realizes this now that her new motive to rebuild the Brotherhood and save China, instead of revenge.....

When she had this motive since freakin Embers!!!!

Is the lore of the series so bad that it even murked up something in this scope? Am I missing something here? Is the lore deteriorating before me or am I wrong? When was vengeance ever a factor?! Like I get people's mind change within time, but she did a complete 180, that it was baffling. What is this?

Namikaze_17
05-04-2015, 04:07 AM
Because a revenge motive is easy to relate to, that's why... :rolleyes:

Xstantin
05-04-2015, 04:14 AM
Yeah, I noticed it too. It's hilarious

D.I.D.
05-04-2015, 04:44 AM
AC games, like a lot of games, use vengeance as a way to excuse their heroes' murders. The gameplay demands an insane amount of killing, and a lot of it for really callous reasons such as "dude was in my way". Revenge is a really simple means of having your hero come out looking like a good guy and being all shiny and legendary instead of looking like a massive scumbag.

Except that it doesn't work, and if the creators implement it too often then it ends up becoming such a reflex that nobody spots the obvious flaws anymore.

VestigialLlama4
05-04-2015, 04:58 AM
Ubisoft plainly knows nothing about storytelling anymore. They go by market testing. They see AC2 and see its the game most people liked and decide to make all their games like that. Same revenge motivation, same dead mentors and start cloning Ezio.

Mr.Black24
05-04-2015, 06:14 AM
Ubisoft plainly knows nothing about storytelling anymore. They go by market testing. They see AC2 and see its the game most people liked and decide to make all their games like that. Same revenge motivation, same dead mentors and start cloning Ezio.It is going down hill...my beloved series is going downhill the moment that they decided that it was a good idea to let the fans write fanfictions about a undisclosed character and call it done......

SixKeys
05-04-2015, 11:14 AM
It is going down hill...my beloved series is going downhill the moment that they decided that it was a good idea to let the fans write fanfictions about a undisclosed character and call it done......

Long before that, TBH.

Locopells
05-04-2015, 11:35 AM
Because she lost her way. That's why Ezio gave her the box (or that's how she interprets it), should she forgot her original aim and get lost in vengeance.

SixKeys
05-04-2015, 12:17 PM
Because she lost her way. That's why Ezio gave her the box (or that's how she interprets it), should she forgot her original aim and get lost in vengeance.

Ironic then that she never found out what the box was for, so really the box did absolutely nothing to help her find her way again.

ze_topazio
05-04-2015, 12:23 PM
Ironic then that she never found out what the box was for, so really the box did absolutely nothing to help her find her way again.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qvqq7KZ7K40/hqdefault.jpg

RA503
05-04-2015, 09:05 PM
Overreaction...

Mr.Black24
05-05-2015, 06:08 PM
Because she lost her way. That's why Ezio gave her the box (or that's how she interprets it), should she forgot her original aim and get lost in vengeance. It would have been great if vengeance entered her mind after a few levels, getting angrier after seeing more cruelty to the people, showing her descent into the abyss, until she finally finds herself again. But the begins completely portrays a different person than the one from Embers.

And they way that ending goes, it portrayed the fact that she just realized this new objective in life....the very one she already had! If she mentioned how bad she lost her way from her original intention, that would be fine, but instead she just had a revelation, like as if this is the first time she realizes this. That is just bad.

Locopells
05-05-2015, 06:37 PM
If this had been a full game, we'd probably have seen that, but as it is, I just think the detail is lost.

Civona
05-06-2015, 04:54 AM
I felt pretty much the same about Ezio's desire for revenge in AC2. It felt like he didn't care about it at all for long stretches of time, but they expected you to think he did simply because the people he killed for other reasons also happened to be conveniently connected to the conspiracy.

So hey, people are always asking for more stories that feel like AC2! :P

But for real, I don't really see much of an issue with these shifting motivations. People don't always do what they'll say to do. Easy to think you'll never give in to revenge and will do the right thing when the potential for revenge is not within your grasp.

The stuff about the thing ezio gave her is a much bigger offender. (but I don't care about that)

SixKeys
05-06-2015, 09:03 AM
I felt pretty much the same about Ezio's desire for revenge in AC2. It felt like he didn't care about it at all for long stretches of time, but they expected you to think he did simply because the people he killed for other reasons also happened to be conveniently connected to the conspiracy.

Fair point, but at least Ezio didn't first talk about exacting revenge and then haflway through the story have a "revelation" that made him go "hey, I just realized: I'm doing all this for revenge!". Which is what happened with Shao Jun. In Embers she said her motive was not revenge but bringing justice and hope for the people of China. Then in ACC, she spends the whole time talking about revenge until the end when she suddenly goes "actually, it's about ethics in games journalism bringing hope for the people of China". She never even said anything like "I lost my way and thought I was after revenge but I wasn't really", she literally started out with different motives and then changed her mind in the end like she just had an epiphany.

Mr.Black24
05-06-2015, 10:41 PM
If this had been a full game, we'd probably have seen that, but as it is, I just think the detail is lost. The fact that it is, means that its bad storytelling. You just can't forget a crucial component like that and expect everything to work out. Its 1# of storytelling rules, when it comes to a pivotal point in character development, either fit it in, replace it with something better that still functions, or find a different outlet that can flow easily into the storyline. Since China obviously can't go the filler route, they could have added 2 sequences to the beginning, to show her original intention being corrupted to that point of vengeance in time.



Fair point, but at least Ezio didn't first talk about exacting revenge and then haflway through the story have a "revelation" that made him go "hey, I just realized: I'm doing all this for revenge!". Which is what happened with Shao Jun. In Embers she said her motive was not revenge but bringing justice and hope for the people of China. Then in ACC, she spends the whole time talking about revenge until the end when she suddenly goes "actually, it's about ethics in games journalism bringing hope for the people of China". She never even said anything like "I lost my way and thought I was after revenge but I wasn't really", she literally started out with different motives and then changed her mind in the end like she just had an epiphany. Exactly! Said it better than myself! She kept mentioning how important and how much she cares about seeing China safe and the Brotherhood restored.

Maybe if at least the ending scene was of Shao talking about losing her intended way, and going back to the path that she meant to walk on in the first place, it could have been much more acceptable.

lol #gamergate

NondairyGold
05-06-2015, 10:55 PM
Maybe if at least the ending scene was of Shao talking about losing her intended way, and going back to the path that she meant to walk on in the first place, it could have been much more acceptable.



You mean like this one?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy78mPyZKmo

Mr.Black24
05-08-2015, 03:16 AM
You mean like this one?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy78mPyZKmo

This would have been great tag, if paired with my suggestion. However, it still implies the fact that Shao wanted vengeance in the beginning of the game, when her story was already set up in Embers, that she was after the restoration of the Brotherhood and freedom/safety of China.