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View Full Version : when was the F4U-1A first used in WW2?



Night Wings
07-30-2004, 11:56 AM
Wondering..

Night Wings
07-30-2004, 11:56 AM
Wondering..

Yellonet
07-30-2004, 12:25 PM
My guess is August '42 as the navy got the first F4U-1 on 31 July.

However, the Corsair wasn't used on carriers untill the F4U-1D arrived in April '44.


- Yellonet

Night Wings
07-30-2004, 12:27 PM
I've read somewhre on the net its first flight in in 1941... :S

p1ngu666
07-30-2004, 01:04 PM
think it was by the british, cant remmber when http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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Hades_Dragon
07-30-2004, 02:57 PM
F4U-1As were actually the first to be used on carriers. The -1A was given to the Corsairs that had all the bugs worked out. The landing gear wasn't as stiff, A small triangular piece of metal was put on the starboard wing to make it buffet before the wing stalled and droppd to the left, and the R2800-8 was equipped with water injection. Though the -1A is also used simply to designate the Corsairs with the framed bubble canopy. But since the 1D was already going into production at about the same time the USN was equipping with Corsairs, many of the -1As would be converted to -1Ds.

Hoarmurath
07-30-2004, 03:07 PM
first F4U-1 (Bu. Aer. 02153) first fly 25 june 1942, entered service 31 july 1942

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Fliger747
07-30-2004, 03:20 PM
Nearly all of the F4U 1A's were equiped with the "blown" canopy and with the seat raised as in later versions. The F4U series underwent a constant upgrade of the airframe and engine, so designations such as F4U-A1 and F4U-1D may take in a lot of territory. The only major diference between the A1 and D models was the inclusion of racks for underwing stores, provided from the manufacturer.

The F4U-4 was a much different and improved "bird", performance wise.

Night Wings
07-30-2004, 03:21 PM
Thanks for all the info.

I really mean the F4U-1A and not the F4U-1. And also, the first flight during war. Not first flight testing.

I have a question, did the F4U fly during the MIDWAY battle in 1942?

[This message was edited by Night Wings on Mon August 02 2004 at 09:28 AM.]

Hoarmurath
07-30-2004, 03:49 PM
no, the first unit created with corsairs was the VMF 124, the 7 september 1942 in Camp Kearney (california).
The first Corsair to be embarked on carrier was the F4U-1 Bu. Aer. 02159 aboard the CVE-26 USS SANGAMON, the 25 september 1942, for trials...

The VMF 124 was the first corsair unit to be combat ready, and it arrived in henderson field the 12 february 1943. The first combat mission occured the 13 february 1943, first encounter with ennemy airplanes the 14 february 1943.

This first combat didn't go well for the US, but soon, with the experience, the VMF 124 managed to obtain good results... A legend was born...

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Hoarmurath
07-30-2004, 03:58 PM
concerning the F4U-1A, the first was a F4U-1 modified (Bu. Aer. 17456) with the new canopy, in august 1943.

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Gunny124
07-30-2004, 07:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hoarmurath:

The VMF 124 was the first corsair unit to be combat ready, and it arrived in henderson field the 12 february 1943. The first combat mission occured the 13 february 1943, first encounter with ennemy airplanes the 14 february 1943.

This first combat didn't go well for the US, but soon, with the experience, the VMF 124 managed to obtain good results... A legend was born...

[QUOTE]

VMF-124 was a squadron of firsts. The first Marine Corps Corsair squadron, the first Corsair squadron to see combat, produced the first Corsair Ace, (Then Lt. Ken Walsh, 20 kills with VMF-124 and MoH winner) and one of the first Marine Corsair squadrons to be deployed aboard a carrier along with VMF-213.

By the way Hoarmurath, 124 did fly an escort mission on the 12th, the day they got to 'Canal. They escorted a "Dumbo" flight up near New Georgia to pick up a couple of Wildcat pilots that had been forced to ditch but had been picked up by some coast watchers.

Latico
07-30-2004, 08:36 PM
I remember reading that the land based Marines used Corsiars in combat before the USN did. Early F4U's had problems at the start in regards to carrier use, so the Navy rejected them until the bugs were worked out. The British Navy used the Corsairs before the USN did.

Also there was one more little modification made for the carrier versions of aircraft. Carrier ac had solid rubber tires on the rear gear as apposed to inflated tires on the land based planes. I guess the inflated tail tires didn't hold up so well on landings.

VF-3Thunderboy
07-30-2004, 08:54 PM
Guadalcanal (Henderson field) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif was the first combat ops for the US-along with the P-38, P-39, and Wildcat.
Not sure when the Britts got them, or where they used em.I think those were later models (F4u-4's), off carriers, so probably not F4U-1's

Hoarmurath
07-30-2004, 10:17 PM
I don't know anything about a mission flown the 12 by the VMF 124... My books don't speak about it.

The US navy first corsair unit was the VF 12, it conducted operational training until summer 1943. At that point, they exchanged their corsairs for hellcats.
The VF 17 had been created the 19 april 1943, and equiped with corsairs. In July 1943, they were on the USS BUNKER HILL in the carribeans for operation "Shakedown". The VF 17 was considered fully operational mid september 1943 with F4U-1A...

The fleet air arm corsairs.
The first english corsair squadron was the squadron 1830, created the 1 june 1943 at Qonset Point. At the end of the year, seven other squadrons had been created. The first squadrons to be operational were the 1830 and 1834 squadrons, at the end of 1943/44 winter. They were used in april 1944 for operations against the TIRPITZ.

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Yellonet
07-31-2004, 03:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
I remember reading that the land based Marines used Corsiars in combat before the USN did. Early F4U's had problems at the start in regards to carrier use, so the Navy rejected them until the bugs were worked out. The British Navy used the Corsairs before the USN did.

Also there was one more little modification made for the carrier versions of aircraft. Carrier ac had solid rubber tires on the rear gear as apposed to inflated tires on the land based planes. I guess the inflated tail tires didn't hold up so well on landings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And a solid rubber tyre probably wouldn't be as prone to bouncing as a inflated tyre would.


- Yellonet

Night Wings
08-02-2004, 07:09 AM
What books are you guys reading to get those infos?

[This message was edited by Night Wings on Mon August 02 2004 at 09:29 AM.]

Yellonet
08-02-2004, 07:28 AM
I've read some on this site: http://www.kotfsc.com/



- Yellonet

Gunny124
08-02-2004, 07:39 AM
Marine Corps Aces (http://www.acepilots.com/usmc_aces2.html)

American Aces of WWII (http://www.acepilots.com/index.html#top)

Hoarmurath, that top link talks about the first mission on the 12th. Boone Guyton also talks about in his book, though I dis-remember the name of his book. He was a Chance-Vought test pilot and fly the Corsair almost exclusively throughout the war. He was also one of the first, if not the first, to fly Gibbages love, "The Flying Pancake," that F5U or whatever the designation of that thing was.

Hoarmurath
08-02-2004, 08:02 AM
Yes indeed, it seem they made an escort mission the 12th... But their first combat is still the "St Valentine's day massacre" the 14th...

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goshikisen
08-02-2004, 08:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunny124:
Boone Guyton also talks about in his book, though I dis-remember the name of his book. He was a Chance-Vought test pilot and fly the Corsair almost exclusively throughout the war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The book by Guyton is called "Whistling Death: The Test Pilot's story of the F4U Corsair"

Night Wings
08-02-2004, 08:36 AM
So could you guys confirm that there is no possibility that an F4U-a$ flought for the June 4th Midway battle?

Hoarmurath
08-02-2004, 10:12 AM
no way... the first F4U-1 was still on the production line.

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Gunny124
08-02-2004, 11:39 AM
Nope Night Wings, like Hoarmurath pointed out, 124 didn't get to 'Canal till Feb '43.

Wasn't trying to contradict you Hoarmurath. I'm a former Marine and I take Marine Corps aviation to heart. Its a hobby you might say along with the F4U.

Thanks goshikisen. I had it at one time and borrowed it out and the guy never returned it. Hadn't been able to replace it yet.

Hoarmurath
08-02-2004, 11:48 AM
No problem, my books can't cover all of F4U missions, it would make for a rather big, and boring book indeed. The one i use as reference is not even a monography on the corsair. So it account only for the more important missions. It seem that the author didn't think that this escort mission was worth a line in its book http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But it is still a very good book about american fighters in the pacific, probably the best ever printed in french.

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Gunny124
08-02-2004, 12:02 PM
Roger that. Couple other good books on the Corsair are "Corsairs and FlatTops" and "Corsair: The F4U in WWII and Korea." Both published by the Naval Institute Press.

Night Wings
08-02-2004, 12:12 PM
Huh, i heard from a different source that the F4U was in service since PH.

Hoarmurath
08-02-2004, 12:20 PM
Aren't you mistaking it with the F4F?

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JG53Frankyboy
08-02-2004, 12:27 PM
what was the difference between a late build F4U-1 (shouldnt have it already the new canopy ? )and a F4U-1a ?

KIMURA
08-02-2004, 12:38 PM
The F4U-1 "Bird Cage" wasn't operational before 12.Feb.43, when it flew it's first mission - escorting a PBY into Guadalcanal aera.

Kimura

Hoarmurath
08-02-2004, 01:03 PM
Main difference between F4U-1 and F4U-1A is cockpit and canopy modifications...

The pilot seat was rehaussed, and the canopy changed from birdcage to a bubble canopy.

longer leg for tail wheel also.

These mods intended to have a better front view when taxying, taking off and landing.

Same engine, except the F4U-1A had a water/methanol injection boost.

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Hoarmurath
08-02-2004, 01:10 PM
ooops, water injection boost was not installed on first 861 F4U-1A... It began with the 862th... there was no change in denomination though...

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KIMURA
08-02-2004, 01:39 PM
The longer tail wheel strut rather was applied to avoid a bouncing of the tail plane on landings than of increasing the visibility, which stayed poor.

Kimura

[This message was edited by KIMURA on Tue August 03 2004 at 01:35 AM.]

Flydutch
08-03-2004, 01:42 PM
according to the recomended book "The Black Sheep" (The definitive account of Marine fighting squadron 214 in WWII)Bruce Gamble, Ballantine books

www.balantinebooks.com (http://www.balantinebooks.com)

'Birdcage' Corsairs operated intermixed with the later blown canopy models during vmf 214th first and second tour until 1944!

The book discribes that these marines did not own a personal a/c they would just jump into the a/c that its groundcrew captain gave a 'ok to use'for.
Not even Major Gregory Boyington owned a personal a/c because of the publicity interest in him they put some stickers mimicking his claims for a/c kills on random corsair and took his picture!

I sincerly hope that the colourful missions wich featured difrent types of marine corsairs, fliyng in coop missions with Navy and USAAF vs Japanese Navy and army pilots!

The book shows interesting details on the corsair wich was a very difficult and tricky a/c, more were lost because of accidents then to enemy action!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KIMURA:
The F4U-1 "Bird Cage" wasn't operational before 12.Feb.43, when it flew it's first mission - escorting a PBY into Guadalcanal aera.

Kimura<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

KIMURA
08-03-2004, 03:26 PM
nt

[This message was edited by KIMURA on Tue August 03 2004 at 02:36 PM.]

Bunker Hill
08-06-2004, 08:07 AM
FWIW, the designation "F4U-1A" was created in hindsight, and was not an official designation at the time the -1A model was rolling off of the assembly line. All F4U-1A models were officially marked "F4U-1" on their tails at the factory.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>what was the difference between a late build F4U-1 (shouldnt have it already the new canopy?)and a F4U-1a?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone pointed out all of the major changes on the first page of this thread (blown canopy, adjustable seat height, redesigned main gear oleos, raised tail wheel, stall strip on the starboard wing, & redesigned tail hook) Later production -1As included water injection & deleted wing fuel tanks as well.

Flight trials performed by VF-17 aboard the USS Bunker Hill (CV-17) were where all of the imperfections with the early F4U-1 Corsair were determined. Just a few short months later when VF-17 was preparing for cruise duty, they had already been equipped with the improved F4U-1A model.

The US Navy had now determined that the "Corsair was unfit for carrier duty" as a response to VF-17's carrier trials. VF-17 left the States and traveled to Pearl Harbor for the first leg of their cruise. It was there that the Navy's decision caught up with them, and they were ordered to operate as a land based squadron. Ironically, VF-17 had been effectively barred from carrier duty based on their own carrier trials from months before, even as they were flying the F4U-1A Corsair with which Vought had corrected all of the problems that those trials had uncovered.

The later F4U-1D Corsair that was approved for carrier duty was effectively the exact same configuration as the F4U-1A.

So next time anyone tells you that the Corsairs that fought from land bases were not fit for carrier duty, you can pass on the truth of the situation. Though officially operating from land bases, F4U-1A Corsairs frequently landed abouard carriers for refueling, etc.

Hoarmurath
08-06-2004, 08:18 AM
It can also be noted that Fleet Air Arm received 70 F4U-1 (Corsair I) and after that 394 F4U-1A (Corsair II) that saw use on carriers.

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Hades_Dragon
08-06-2004, 01:38 PM
Not all F4U-1As had the bubble canopy. Some birdcage Corsairs had the imrpovements (save the bubble canopy) and were still designated F4U-1As. After a very short time though all Corsairs that were being manufactured were equiped with the bubble canopy and allot of those with the birdcage canopy had it replaced.

Bunker Hill
08-06-2004, 06:08 PM
I'd be very interested to see any data that shows Vought even acknowleged the "F4U-1A" designation at the time they were rolling off of the assembly line. As far as I've been able to deduce, the "-1A" designation was applied in hindsight after that configuration of Corsair had been in production for some time. If Vought did in fact consider the "birdcage" Corsairs with the late upgrades to be -1As, the term would have been applied retroactively. Loss records, real time factory records, and designations on the planes themselves denoted even the early "-1A" Corsairs as being simply -1 models.

IIJG11_Spreckels
08-08-2004, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunny124:
Nope Night Wings, like Hoarmurath pointed out, 124 didn't get to 'Canal till Feb '43.

Wasn't trying to contradict you Hoarmurath. I'm a former Marine and I take Marine Corps aviation to heart. Its a hobby you might say along with the F4U.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Former Marine here too Gunny. Roger on that Feb 1943 date ! According to Lt. Kenneth Walsh (VMF-124) in the book "The Blue Devils - US Navy and Marine Corps Aces of WWII"
"Delivery of the F4U commenced in late October 1942 {to their squadron}.........

"We deployed in the first week of January 1943. Our F4U's went aboard the jeep-carrier (derogatory term for CVE escort carriers) Kitty Hawk. We went on a cruise liner, rendevousing with our aircraft at Espiritu Santo in the New Hebrides. We then waited for about 12 days before moving up to Guadalcanal, arriving on 12 February, 1943 ready for combat.

SkyChimp
08-08-2004, 06:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bunker Hill:
I'd be very interested to see any data that shows Vought even acknowleged the "F4U-1A" designation at the time they were rolling off of the assembly line. As far as I've been able to deduce, the "-1A" designation was applied in hindsight after that configuration of Corsair had been in production for some time. If Vought did in fact consider the "birdcage" Corsairs with the late upgrades to be -1As, the term would have been applied retroactively. Loss records, real time factory records, and designations on the planes themselves denoted even the early "-1A" Corsairs as being simply -1 models.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are absolutely correct on that.

Regards,
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Gunny124
08-08-2004, 09:26 PM
Semper Fi Spreckels! Lots of folks have no idea about 124. The famous ones, 214, 211, 221, they get all the all press. One of the reasons why me and some of the guys over Combatsim started a little virtual VMF-124. And I hope we can get 124 in game as a selectable squadron for campaigns and such.

IIJG11_Spreckels
08-09-2004, 09:18 AM
Hey Gunny -
A friend (doggie, but a great guy) and I have started VMF-223 (MOH winner, Major John Lucien Smith, Commanding), which will fly PF when it comes out. VMF-223 was another no press squadron although they were the highest scoring Marine or Naval Squadron at Guadalcanal between July/December 1942 in the F4F Wildcat (134 victories)
We are actually starting out as an AVG Squadron 2 (Pandas)in IL2FB and then move on to Henderson Field and join the Cactus Air Force.
Web site is up but not finished yet. Check it out at: Home of the VMF-223 Virtual Squadron (http://417sqnrcaf.com/2index.html)

Ooh-ra

Semper Fi

Gunny124
08-09-2004, 10:24 AM
Good looking site so far Spreckles and good luck to yall. No site for us just yet, but coming on-line soon.

Semper Fi!

Skarphol
08-10-2004, 08:27 AM
As a sidenote to the question in this thread, I can add that "The Royal Navy were the first, operationally, to use Corsair's on Aircraft Carriers and their first action was against the German Battleship "Tripitz" in March 1943". Three different sources I've found on the net says so. On the other hand, one of the same sources state that the first Royal Navy Corsair-squadron was 1830, formed in april 1943. Hard to say what's correct..

Skarphol

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