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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:52 PM
From some of the posts I've read at a few websites across the net-nvnews.net, hardocp forum, anandforums, I've come to the conclusion that nvidia cards are worthless pieces of silicon. I don't care what reviewers or people in this board say (you obviously aren't listening to the ati users here that love their cards JR) because they are wrong and I am right.

ATI is the king.

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:52 PM
From some of the posts I've read at a few websites across the net-nvnews.net, hardocp forum, anandforums, I've come to the conclusion that nvidia cards are worthless pieces of silicon. I don't care what reviewers or people in this board say (you obviously aren't listening to the ati users here that love their cards JR) because they are wrong and I am right.

ATI is the king.

rogo

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:55 PM
Dunno m8, I love my TNT2, I've sqesshed everything from her, But I sure could not resist to an Radeon 9700. I MUST buy one of those.. though...

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:55 PM
Thats going fishing for some trouble.

I doubt many who have bought their ATI cards can say that nVidia is crap. Many of us from the sounds of it owned a TNT or a GeForce 2 or something in between.

Most enthusiasts agree, nVidia generally makes a decent product (as decent as any other), and that only recently has ATI taken the crown of performance and price with the 9700 Pro's, the 9800 Pro's and the 9500 Pro in the slightly lower end market.

Its all bets going for the next great clash of video card makers.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:56 PM
LOL,well seeing as I owned 1 only ATI 9700pro card and it was total crap I can say that all ATI cards are crap /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (sarcasm)

No1RAAF_Pourshot


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Message Edited on 08/16/0310:16AM by pourshot

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:57 PM
I've really enjoyed my Radeon 9700. Nvidia has yet to make a product that I would switch over to.

47|FC
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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:59 PM
hahahaha LOL

I've owned every nvidia card from Riva 128 to Geforce4 and nForce2 mobo. Now I have an ATI Radeon 9500pro. They've all been good cards.

I think they're all good. At least they aren't half-as'ed like 3dfx.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:04 AM
necrobaron wrote:
- I've really enjoyed my Radeon 9700. Nvidia has yet
- to make a product that I would switch over to.

But how can anyone have a true and honest opinion about this,you cant unless you had a FX and a 9700 pro ,yes?

Anyway ATI should not go around like it's kill of the hill it has only just taken the crown ( first time ever IMHO ) and it should be looking over it's shoulder.I dont think anyone would be wise to forget all the old problems they had.

No1RAAF_Pourshot


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How many people think this is a p-51/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:09 AM
Yeah right Pourshot the ATI 9700 beats everything besides the Geforce FX 5900 and the ATI 9800.



Message Edited on 08/15/0306:10PM by Ultimate_Stuka

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:13 AM
my radeon9800pro works just fine for me

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:15 AM
From what I've seen Nvidia makes cards that are much more expensive,but are only marginally better than the top-end ATI cards...

47|FC
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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:17 AM
I can agree with some of the comments, I have read about Nvidia, ''Bummer'' guys don't get mad just Buy ATI
necrobaron wrote:
- From what I've seen Nvidia makes cards that are much
- more expensive,but are only marginally better than
- the top-end ATI cards...
-
- 47|FC
<img
- src="http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6
- .jpg">
-

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:23 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- From some of the posts I've read at a few websites
- across the net-nvnews.net, hardocp forum,
- anandforums, I've come to the conclusion that nvidia
- cards are worthless pieces of silicon. I don't care
- what reviewers or people in this board say (you
- obviously aren't listening to the ati users here
- that love their cards JR) because they are wrong and
- I am right.
-
- ATI is the king.
-
- rogo

Since I am typing to you with a system that has a Ti4200, less than 4 months old , that is DYING, I can see your point. The in-game graphics have been pretty, but I could have spent my $185 on something that may have lasted a bit longer. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif You can get the same card now for $99. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:25 AM
Rogodin

Welcome to the ranks of a troll first class Congrats../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


btw..Is this IL2 related?

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Message Edited on 08/15/0309:27PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:27 AM
Rogodin LMAO!!!

Regards,
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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:50 AM
Rogo, you post like a pogo.

Stop with the silliness. Everyone knows Nvidia is is best. If you have an ATI card, then I feel sorry for you. But please quit trying to push it on us. You made your purchasing descision and now your just going to have to live with it: bugs, compatability, driver issues and all. You play games right? Stick with Nvidia. Nuff said.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:53 AM
The talk of a hardcore fanATIc http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wouldn´t say nVidia is crap nowadays. At least not the 5900 ULTRA it can compete quite well with the 9800 PRO but it´s the only of the new FX series that performs well.

Wonder how it would compare without nVidias shameless "optimizations" though. It´s really weird you can´t disable them and use custom settings in the drivers as you can with the ATI cards don´t you think?

But I hope nVidia will do even better with their next generation. They need to keep ATI on their toes to keep their advantage they got with the R300:s.



Rogodin wrote:
- From some of the posts I've read at a few websites
- across the net-nvnews.net, hardocp forum,
- anandforums, I've come to the conclusion that nvidia
- cards are worthless pieces of silicon. I don't care
- what reviewers or people in this board say (you
- obviously aren't listening to the ati users here
- that love their cards JR) because they are wrong and
- I am right.
-
- ATI is the king.
-
- rogo

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:02 AM
nvidia has always made more expensive video cards than ATI.
The Geforce 4 ti-4600 when it was produced was more expensive than the 9700 PRO and that wasn´t even remotely comparable to the 9700 PRO.

Than came the FX 5800 ULTRA and it was even more expensive but still couldn´t compete with the 9700 PRO.

Than comes the FX 5900 ULTRA and while it can compete with the 9800 PRO it still costs a lot more.

The nVidia marketing team is the best in the computer business no doubt.

So you can´t judge performance on what the video cards cost.

ATI still do the best video cards though even if nVidia has improved more from the FX 5800 ULTRA to FX 5900 ULTRA then ATI has from 9700 PRO to 9800 PRO.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:09 AM
That's what I'm saying,with ATI you get more bang for your buck,even if Nvidia has slightly more "bang".

47|FC
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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:14 AM
My post was made in jest-wanted to see who would post what /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I was making a mockery of "Ati is teh crap" post.

Alas-no one got.

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:15 AM
RBJ made a post I can agree with!

Well said RBJ.

See you in the fence.....

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:23 AM
Yes but you don´t get anymore bang with nVidia cards. Or that is depending on what you mean with bang. Even the FX 5800 ULTRA could with their "optimizations" produce higher FPS than the 9700 PRO but was still considered inferior since it couldn´t handle high image quality settings very well and it´s aa and anisotropic wasn´t even close to the 9700:s. Couldn´t handle colours very well and was a joke at PS 2.0 benchmarks.

And while the 5900 ULTRA again can produce good FPS scores in term of image quality they are still behind even if they in some cases like Anisotropic is closer. Their AA is still blurry and their Anisotropic is slower. And again you have to choose at half precision mode or full precision whereas it at full precision is dead slow and at half precision far behind the Radeons. The FX 5900 also don´t do full trilinear filtering.

But ATI and nVidia has gone different routes here. ATI went for image quality while nvidia has continued what they always have done. Going for speed and make sure their cards look good at benchmarks.

Tweak for Image quality ATI is faster, tweak for speed nvidia is faster.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:24 AM
So you can read minds and experience what others do now RJB?

I guess this pathetic justification of your nvidia purchase might just be valid in your case, you try to roll with the 190s but you're in a jug big fella-you just don't realize it because you've never flown a 190.

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:25 AM
BTW that is a METAPHOR

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:15 AM
oeqvist wrote:
- nvidia has always made more expensive video cards
- than ATI.
- The Geforce 4 ti-4600 when it was produced was more
- expensive than the 9700 PRO and that wasn´t even
- remotely comparable to the 9700 PRO.

The Ti series of GeForce cards came out well before the 9700 Pro. You are comparing two different generations of video cards. The offerings from ATi at that time were vanilla.



- Than came the FX 5800 ULTRA and it was even more
- expensive but still couldn´t compete with the 9700
- PRO.

Actually, after they got their driver issues sorted out, the 5800 ULTRA is "faster" than the 9700 Pro overall. Especially in OpenGL. It was a crap card, no doubt, and more expensive, but it is faster.


- Than comes the FX 5900 ULTRA and while it can
- compete with the 9800 PRO it still costs a lot more.

They are the same price m8. The FX 5900 ULTRA has 256Mb of ram, and the 256Mb version of the 9800 Pro is the same price.


- The nVidia marketing team is the best in the
- computer business no doubt.

Agreed.

- So you can´t judge performance on what the video
- cards cost.
-
- ATI still do the best video cards though even if
- nVidia has improved more from the FX 5800 ULTRA to
- FX 5900 ULTRA then ATI has from 9700 PRO to 9800
- PRO.

Very opinionated and not necessarily true. I have a GeForce 3(not even a Ti) and it runs most of todays games(Americas Army, Il2, FB, Morrowind) at the same frame rates for even higher than with a 9700 Pro. I purchased a 9700 Pro but put the GeForce3 back in after a couple of months. I never had a single problem with my Nvidia card. No wierd textures, stuff like that. I put the 9700 Pro back in recently so I could use perfect settings and to use AA ans FSAA in FB, but the GeFOrce 3 was the best vid card I have ever owned.



Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:58 AM
NVIDIA not teh crappy card, but OK card

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:14 AM
Ive owned both Nvidea and ATI cards. First one was a 32 mb radeon it did its job well and even handled IL2 without a problem.

Then came the GF 3 TI 200 128mb wow it screamed and i used it for over a year and a half.

Now a 5600 Ultra resides in my box and i havent had any problem with it handling any thing thrown at it.

Only Card i had problems with was a GF4 128 and that wasnt the cards fault the GF never shut off her computer and cooked it.

So what card will be my next purchace I dont know ill haveto wait and see




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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:15 AM
I have Nvidia, and am completely satisfied.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:24 AM
I got it. That's why I called you a troll.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:44 AM
You don't care for what people say in this board?
Then why bother participating?
I don't have the energy or the time to see if you've said anything interesting or of merit in your previous posts.

Blatant trolling.

LOCK the thread

Nvidia ROCKS!!!!!!!!!


Rogodin wrote:
- From some of the posts I've read at a few websites
- across the net-nvnews.net, hardocp forum,
- anandforums, I've come to the conclusion that nvidia
- cards are worthless pieces of silicon. I don't care
- what reviewers or people in this board say (you
- obviously aren't listening to the ati users here
- that love their cards JR) because they are wrong and
- I am right.
-
- ATI is the king.




Message Edited on 08/16/0309:27AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:47 AM
By now everyone knows the GeForce 5900 Ultra is faster in running IL2 FB than anything ATI can trough at it, I am not saying the 5900 Ultra is always faster then the 9800 Pro but for IL2 FB this is certainly the case.
Think about the games you want to run and than by a graphics card the suites your games best.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:36 AM
Dutch60 wrote:
- By now everyone knows the GeForce 5900 Ultra is
- faster in running IL2 FB than anything ATI can
- trough at it, I am not saying the 5900 Ultra is
- always faster then the 9800 Pro but for IL2 FB this
- is certainly the case.
- Think about the games you want to run and than by a
- graphics card the suites your games best.

No, it's think about your budget in most cases.
Not everybody can afford top of the line producs.
I even think the majority here has a limited budget.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:46 AM
First hand info..Cards that have been in this machine...FX5200 (crap), Fx5600 ultra, (slower than 4600), FX5800 ultra, (good card, believe it or not), FX5900 128mb,(ok card, but got screen flicker so it went back), FX5900 256mb (ok card, sreen flicker here too, sent back). Right now I beleive ATI is the better card. I had an original 9700 pro but had too many driver issues.I did get an e-mail from Nvidia confirming the screen flicker issue, which you wont hear much about, they told me they are working on it. I'm waiting until the new cards come out to decide if I'm going to switch to ATI again.

"Is the poop-deck really what i think it is?" -Homer Simpson

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:08 PM
IBTL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<sarcasm>
Hey rogo, while we are downloading the *HUNDREDS* of patches/gamefixes we need to play *ANY* PC games in our teh crap Ati's we can do some nice video editting!!
Anyone wants to join us?
Stop playing FB, Chrome, flanker, Homeworld, Iwar2 etc etc those games dont work on ati cards (unless you download game fixes of hundreds of Mb)

well i'm going to edit video files

</sarcasm>

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:08 PM
US_8th_Dosiere wrote:
-
- oeqvist wrote:
-- nvidia has always made more expensive video cards
-- than ATI.
-- The Geforce 4 ti-4600 when it was produced was more
-- expensive than the 9700 PRO and that wasn´t even
-- remotely comparable to the 9700 PRO.
-
- The Ti series of GeForce cards came out well before
- the 9700 Pro. You are comparing two different
- generations of video cards. The offerings from ATi
- at that time were vanilla.
-
nVidia only had the Geforce 4 ti-4600 to compete with the 9700 PRO for a VERY long time and yes it was way more expensive than the 9700 PRO. Sure it´s not the same generation The Geforce 4 Ti-4600 wasn´t even a dx 8.1 card but it was the fastest nVidia got at the time. And it wasn´t that much faster than the 8500 which at that time got some good drivers and was a dx 8.1 card with superior shaders, colour handling, 2D quality and aa and anisotropic.
-
-
-- Than came the FX 5800 ULTRA and it was even more
-- expensive but still couldn´t compete with the 9700
-- PRO.
-
- Actually, after they got their driver issues sorted
- out, the 5800 ULTRA is "faster" than the 9700 Pro
- overall. Especially in OpenGL. It was a crap card,
- no doubt, and more expensive, but it is faster.

As I have said many times since nVidia optimizes for speed their cards are fast but running at high resolutions, aa and anisotropic and optimizing for image quality they falls way behind both in benchmarks and in subjective image quality tests. Use aa and anisotropic and full precision colours and it couldn´t come close to the 9700 PRO. Very bottlenecked by it´s 128-bit bus.
-
-
-- Than comes the FX 5900 ULTRA and while it can
-- compete with the 9800 PRO it still costs a lot more.
-
- They are the same price m8. The FX 5900 ULTRA has
- 256Mb of ram, and the 256Mb version of the 9800 Pro
- is the same price.
-
The FX 5900 is much more than 100$ more expensive generally than their 9800 counterparts..
-
-- The nVidia marketing team is the best in the
-- computer business no doubt.
-
- Agreed.
-
-- So you can´t judge performance on what the video
-- cards cost.
--
-- ATI still do the best video cards though even if
-- nVidia has improved more from the FX 5800 ULTRA to
-- FX 5900 ULTRA then ATI has from 9700 PRO to 9800
-- PRO.
-
- Very opinionated and not necessarily true. I have a
- GeForce 3(not even a Ti) and it runs most of todays
- games(Americas Army, Il2, FB, Morrowind) at the same
- frame rates for even higher than with a 9700 Pro. I
- purchased a 9700 Pro but put the GeForce3 back in
- after a couple of months. I never had a single
- problem with my Nvidia card. No wierd textures,
- stuff like that. I put the 9700 Pro back in
- recently so I could use perfect settings and to use
- AA ans FSAA in FB, but the GeFOrce 3 was the best
- vid card I have ever owned.
-
Please you can´t tell me that you preferr Geforce 3 over a 9700 PRO. And saying it got the same framerates as IL 2 FB, Morrowind is simply not remotely true. Can´t say anything about Americas Army since I haven´t played that game but I have played both IL 2 FB and Morrowind on my ti-4600 and my 9700 PRO and the 9700 PRO is faster at higher resolution WITH aa and anisotropic than my ti-4600 is at lower resolution and quincunx (which looks crap) and less anisotropic. And Morrowind I played it at 1600x1200x32 with 16x anisotropic, full detail levels except for shadows and texture and mipmap settings set to highest quality which I always use.

You have to be SEVERELY cpu limited to find that the Geforce 3 and 9700 PRO got equal performance. What CPU do you got

I replaced my ti-500 with my Geforce 4 ti-4600 and while the biggest change is that higher resolutions wasn´t that blurry anymore the ti-4600 still was a fair bit faster than the Geforce 3 -ti 500. What CPU do you got.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:10 PM
Oh man for a while reading this post I thought RBJ got a son http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ZG77_Nagual
08-16-2003, 03:18 PM
My fx5900 card actually came with a fully functional Liv Tyler. However the 9800 pro is boxed with Kate Blanchett.

(RBJ's Geforce card came with Wendy O Williams I'm pretty sure.)



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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:20 PM
kickin it ti4800 style and no probs here.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:28 PM
What?! This a troll thread?! Necro is gullible...../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

47|FC
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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:33 PM
This remind me of the "Amiga is better than Atari" days.

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ML Gore


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Message Edited on 08/16/0304:35PM by Superluminal

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:08 PM
A lot of people like to live in the past , others dont read true videocard forums ,..ont thing is true , right now ATI has the best hardware , drivers and price in the today market , this is not year 2000 anymore but 2003 and a lot of stuff changed .
With normal drivers (without cheats ) ATI is better than NVIDIA , the 8 FSAA from Nvidia is in fact 4 FSAA so you can't compeare this because they cheat and still then he get his *** kicked by ATI sometimes .
Nvidia cut 2 X Ani filtering also so if you set in 6X is in fact 4X ani .
Nvidia replaced the code of 3Dmark 3 times in the last 5 monts with a driver recod to obtain 22% more speed , they got caught and they retired the drivers .
They set unreal 2 engine to Bilinear filtering in the drivers to hawe more speed in benches and you can't change back in trilinear because Nvidia dont like this so you are stuck like this .
They also cut a lot of quality and filtering in the driver to obtain more speed , and so with all the bull alround the net they finaly released a more quality driver (the latest 45.23) but the thing cut 500 points in 3dmark03.
----
Nvidia was once the best , so it was 3 DFX , now is ATI ,... stuff change , you can either inform yourself or remain dumb and happy , that's kinda all .
I am the owner of a TI4400 Abit and never owned ATI card but i like a lot to read news and videocard forums like Anand , Sharky , H[ocp} and etc , like this you always know what is the best card , value and why.
Stupid people , ignorants and guys who are in deep love with the Nvidia cards will flame me but this is the true about the today stuff .

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:09 PM
I could live with nVidias "optimizations" if they just allowed the user to run the games without them... to run true trilinear and anisotropic and let the game developers decide how the shaders should be used.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:14 PM
You guys can blab about the stuff that nvidia doesn't do right, and ATI is so much better. The bottom line is, if you could see what I see on my monitor. You'd become a 5900 fan.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:18 PM
Don't even respond to this troll thread. It's all part of Pogo and Sunkist's fantasy.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:38 PM
When you fix a driver upon a benchmark is called optimisation but when you replace the benchmark code this is called cheat , also missinforming the people about AA and AF is sad m8 , i mean the poor guy set his card in 4AA and is happy but in fact he run 1 AA so the normal user get ripped off , .
Anand and H sended petitions to NVDA since the game was released (UT2) to alow the user to change filtering in trilinear but they always dodge this issue because they love that the card is on par with 9800 and so this stuff remain like this .
If you call setting a videocard in 8AA and he in fact run in 4 AA a optimisation , well is your right but not everybody see this like you .
So at the end , how do we know how the card realy perform under normal IQ and settings ?
1 year and half before Nvidia had the most powerfull and stable hardware on the planet , they just add to that rock stable driver and the king was undisputed .
Now , they needed 2 series of videocards to comppete with ATI flagship and when they see the final result they desperately cheat , cut filtering , cut AA , cut IQ , cut AF to barely beat or match the market top videocards .

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:47 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Don't even respond to this troll thread. It's all
- part of Pogo and Sunkist's fantasy.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)



Indeed m8 you are right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif people who dont agree with you are trolls , lucky you that this is Frogotten Battles sim forum and not Anand or H videocards forum .
Expressing stuff like this in the forums will automaticaly put you a newbie tag in your neck wich is damn hard to remove .

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:52 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- You guys can blab about the stuff that nvidia
- doesn't do right, and ATI is so much better. The
- bottom line is, if you could see what I see on my
- monitor. You'd become a 5900 fan.
-
- 25th_Buzz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- <center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg
-
-



Sry if i express myself in the bad way , proly my bad english , i never say that 5900 is a bad videocard , is the exact opposite , this card is in fact awesome hardware with awesome capabilities and without any doubt the best card they ever produced but what i try to say is that Nvidia sould set his stuff in the right way and not the way they act today .
The card might on par with 9800 with normal IQ but i just wish Nvidia will prove this without optimisations .

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:55 PM
R.D.D

You/they can say that about the fsaa, but it remains a fact on my system if you put both cards on max fsaa. The 5900 has less jaggies. It doesn't matter to me that the 5900 will be saying 8xfsaa, and the 9800 will be saying 6x fsaa. the fact is both cards are maxed out, and the 5900 looks better. Now with the new option in the latest nvidia drivers to tweak your colors. The 5900 is beautiful compared to the washed out look of the 9800.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:00 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- You guys can blab about the stuff that nvidia
- doesn't do right, and ATI is so much better. The
- bottom line is, if you could see what I see on my
- monitor. You'd become a 5900 fan.
-
- 25th_Buzz


I have seen it (not on your monitor though, on a 21" Trinitron) and it looks really good but not as good as with the 9700 PRO in the same resolution.

Maybe if nVidia starts supporting full trilinear and full antialiasing and switch their aa method and better color handling and Pixel shaders... It´s something weird when you get better trilinear filtering with the Geforce 3:s for example...

That is why I don´t care much about nvidia nowadays.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:08 PM
This thread is quite the hoot. Orininally started as a "black is white?" type anomally, is started to have people show up that actually believe it. Time to make a movie 'Rogo the Pogo and the Sunkist Kid' Part 2: Black is white? Let's discuss the pro's and con's.

It's just silly, and misleading. Of course the best video card for GAMES is something from Nvidia. Kudos to ATI though for keeping them on their toes. Nvidia is so good with games BOOM they made an nforce sound better than creative.

Bad guys: Intel, ATI, Creative

Good guys: Nvidia, AMD, Microsoft

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 08/16/0303:12PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:12 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- R.D.D
-
- You/they can say that about the fsaa, but it
- remains a fact on my system if you put both cards on
- max fsaa. The 5900 has less jaggies. It doesn't
- matter to me that the 5900 will be saying 8xfsaa,
- and the 9800 will be saying 6x fsaa. the fact is
- both cards are maxed out, and the 5900 looks better.
- Now with the new option in the latest nvidia drivers
- to tweak your colors. The 5900 is beautiful compared
- to the washed out look of the 9800.
-
-
- 25th_Buzz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- <center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg
-
-



Well , if you like the card and you think that is worthit i dont argue with you , i just wish you luck with your purchase , the bottom line is to be happy with what you payd for but not everybody share your opinion .
At the end is each person opinion who count , some are happy and some not .
But is not like Nvidia is the king and ATI is junk and has problems like some others say , this stuff is far far away from reality or post something against Nvidia and you are a troll , ...duh , Nvidia must be happy to hawe those fanatics near .
Take care ,
Roby ,D

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:22 PM
BuzzU wrote:
-- R.D.D
--
-- You/they can say that about the fsaa, but it
-- remains a fact on my system if you put both cards on
-- max fsaa. The 5900 has less jaggies. It doesn't
-- matter to me that the 5900 will be saying 8xfsaa,
-- and the 9800 will be saying 6x fsaa. the fact is
-- both cards are maxed out, and the 5900 looks better.
-- Now with the new option in the latest nvidia drivers
-- to tweak your colors. The 5900 is beautiful compared
-- to the washed out look of the 9800

Hmm on my Trinitron monitor the 5900 Ultra got more washed out colours. But this is of course very subjective and your monitor will make a huge difference in the appearance.

But then I am no fan of cartoony graphics. When I got my ti-4600 and an old CRT monitor I always used the vibrant setting in my tweaker but with my 9700 PRO and my Trinitron monitor it got way to much saturation so I just leave it as it´s. But that is a tip if you like saturation and exaggerated colours enable digital vibrance in your tweaker.

And about aa I guess you have seen how blurred the image get with aa on your 5900 ULTRA. That was what striked me the most with the 5900 ULTRA.

But you seem happy with your 5900 ULTRA so congrats http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:36 PM
oeqvist wrote:
-
- Hmm on my Trinitron monitor the 5900 Ultra got more
- washed out colours. But this is of course very
- subjective and your monitor will make a huge
- difference in the appearance.
-

- http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-
-


I am hardware salesperson and we hawe both a Leadtek 5900 U and a Saphire 9800 P in our main demo rigs with the same 21' Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB in both and you can clearly see that the 9800 IQ is a lot better and colours more bright but as i say each persons opinions might be different .

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:53 PM
Why post in my thread RJB

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:57 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- You/they can say that about the fsaa, but it
- remains a fact on my system if you put both cards on
- max fsaa. The 5900 has less jaggies. It doesn't
- matter to me that the 5900 will be saying 8xfsaa,
- and the 9800 will be saying 6x fsaa. the fact is
- both cards are maxed out, and the 5900 looks better.
- Now with the new option in the latest nvidia drivers
- to tweak your colors. The 5900 is beautiful compared
- to the washed out look of the 9800.

Buzz what company maufactured your 9800?
ati sells his chip and others companys put the chip on his own boards, following ati's designs but with some liberty in the design.
Some manufacturers are well known because of poor quality image filters, poor color or insuficient cooling

S!

http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0
Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:35 PM
Yeh, stick with Sapphire or Hercules and you be just fine.
Always thought Sapphire kept the best cards and shipped the others to ATI...lol

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:18 PM
The RADEON:s I know is good is hercules, sapphire, ATI, Crucial MSI, Leadtek and many more I am sure.

The only one I know you should stay away from is powercolor and OCS.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:25 PM
oeqvist wrote:
- The RADEON:s I know is good is hercules, sapphire,
- ATI, Crucial MSI, Leadtek and many more I am sure.
-
- The only one I know you should stay away from is
- powercolor and OCS.
-
-
xelo is bad as far as I know, club3d are of medium quality

In general the best ati's are sapphire, hercules and build by ati

http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0
Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:05 AM
xelo is bad as far as I know, club3d are of medium
- quality

Xelo???, Club3D??? Can just about anyone manufacture ATI cards this days? Have never heard of anything like it.

Only buy from a well known manufacturer I would say.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:20 AM
My ATI card was made by ATI. Falcon won't use any crap hardware like Alienware does.

When I said if you could see what was on my monitor. I was talking about what was coming out of my systen, not the monitor. Although I think I have the best monitor on the market. It's not what I meant.

As for cartoon colors. Groan! There is something between washed out, and cartoon. It's called just right!

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:50 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- You guys can blab about the stuff that nvidia
- doesn't do right, and ATI is so much better. The
- bottom line is, if you could see what I see on my
- monitor. You'd become a 5900 fan.
-

If you could see what was on my monitor you wish you had always bought ATI cards.

I play Battlefield 1942, Raven Shield, America's Army, Medal Of Honor, and many other games. I have never had a problem with my 9800.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:07 AM
oeqvist wrote:
- US_8th_Dosiere wrote:

- nVidia only had the Geforce 4 ti-4600 to compete
- with the 9700 PRO for a VERY long time and yes it
- was way more expensive than the 9700 PRO. Sure it´s
- not the same generation The Geforce 4 Ti-4600 wasn´t
- even a dx 8.1 card but it was the fastest nVidia got
- at the time. And it wasn´t that much faster than the
- 8500 which at that time got some good drivers and
- was a dx 8.1 card with superior shaders, colour
- handling, 2D quality and aa and anisotropic.

After the 9700 Pro came out, yes. Before that though, ATis drivers were not really up to snuff, and Nvidia pretty much had the vid card market.

--- Than came the FX 5800 ULTRA and it was even more
--- expensive but still couldn´t compete with the 9700
--- PRO.
--
-- Actually, after they got their driver issues sorted
-- out, the 5800 ULTRA is "faster" than the 9700 Pro
-- overall. Especially in OpenGL. It was a crap card,
-- no doubt, and more expensive, but it is faster.
-
- As I have said many times since nVidia optimizes for
- speed their cards are fast but running at high
- resolutions, aa and anisotropic and optimizing for
- image quality they falls way behind both in
- benchmarks and in subjective image quality tests.
- Use aa and anisotropic and full precision colours
- and it couldn´t come close to the 9700 PRO. Very
- bottlenecked by it´s 128-bit bus.

Visit Toms Hardware or any other site that has benchmarked the FX5800 after they received updated drivers. The 9700 Pro beat it in some categories, but the 5800 beat it in even more. The image quality difference between the two also became negligible.


--
- The FX 5900 is much more than 100$ more expensive
- generally than their 9800 counterparts..

?????? Just go here or any other site online where you can buy the two cards. The nvidia cards are around $10-$20 more expensive on average.
http://www.buyxtremegear.com/components-video-card.html


--- The nVidia marketing team is the best in the
--- computer business no doubt.
--
-- Agreed.
--
--- So you can´t judge performance on what the video
--- cards cost.
---
--- ATI still do the best video cards though even if
--- nVidia has improved more from the FX 5800 ULTRA to
--- FX 5900 ULTRA then ATI has from 9700 PRO to 9800
--- PRO.
--

- Please you can´t tell me that you preferr Geforce 3
- over a 9700 PRO.

For Dx 8 games, and especially games that use OpenGL, yes, I do.

And saying it got the same
- framerates as IL 2 FB, Morrowind is simply not
- remotely true.

Hmmmmm, ok. Unless my screen rates are lying to me, it is true.

Can´t say anything about Americas
- Army since I haven´t played that game but I have
- played both IL 2 FB and Morrowind on my ti-4600 and
- my 9700 PRO and the 9700 PRO is faster at higher
- resolution WITH aa and anisotropic than my ti-4600
- is at lower resolution and quincunx (which looks
- crap) and less anisotropic. And Morrowind I played
- it at 1600x1200x32 with 16x anisotropic, full detail
- levels except for shadows and texture and mipmap
- settings set to highest quality which I always use.

I use Q AA in IL2 and FB with the GF3. Loss of only 1 frame per sec and it looks really good. Looks like crap on all other games. I didnt use AA or FSAA with my GF3. As I mentioned, I am now using the 9700 Pro for that reason, and get about the same frames with AA ans FSAA. But a lot more graphical glitches. It is getting better with every driver update from ATi, but they are still more numerous than I have ever had with the GF3.
Using those(AA and FSAA), yes, of course the 9700 Pro is faster. And in dx9 games if they ever come out, but that is not what I said.

- You have to be SEVERELY cpu limited to find that the
- Geforce 3 and 9700 PRO got equal performance. What
- CPU do you got

1.7 Ghz P4, 400 FSB, 512 Mb of PC800 RDram.
and
2.0 Ghz P4, 400 FSB, 512 Mb of PC2700 Ram

Both are more than sufficient for any game mentioned except for FB with a lot of planes flying around. In FB, I am CPU limited, but not in any of those other games.


- I replaced my ti-500 with my Geforce 4 ti-4600 and
- while the biggest change is that higher resolutions
- wasn´t that blurry anymore the ti-4600 still was a
- fair bit faster than the Geforce 3 -ti 500. What CPU
- do you got.

Dont know what to tell you. Maybe we were using different video drivers or something. I am not saying ATi is "crap", far from it. I would not be using their card right now if I thought so. However, I dont think Nvidia is crap either, and I have experience with both.



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Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:17 AM
Here are some links for reviews of the FX5900 vs the 9800 Pro.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=1

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030512/index.html


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforcefx-5900ultra.html





Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

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Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:55 PM
After the 9700 Pro came out, yes. Before that
- though, ATis drivers were not really up to snuff,
- and Nvidia pretty much had the vid card market.

Yup nVidia had the video card market through old merits mainly. Nvidia got the inferior hardware with their Geforce 3 but was somewhat saved by it´s superior marketing team, their reputation and ATI:s driver issues.

And yes it had better drivers until the CATALYST series was released. ATI actually bought over nVidias driver team which was quite a move http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Actually, after they got their driver issues sorted
--- out, the 5800 ULTRA is "faster" than the 9700 Pro
--- overall. Especially in OpenGL. It was a crap card,
--- no doubt, and more expensive, but it is faster.

It has always been faster with nVidias optimization no aa or anisotropic and half precision colour. Tweak it so you get closer to the image quality of 9700 PRO with aa and anisotropic it´s a lot slower and still can´t compete image quality wise. That is why it´s a crap card not because it´s faster???????

What do you want from highend video cards for 500$? Zillions fps but very poor image quality or great image quality and only millions of FPS???



Visit Toms Hardware or any other site that has
- benchmarked the FX5800 after they received updated
- drivers. The 9700 Pro beat it in some categories,
- but the 5800 beat it in even more. The image
- quality difference between the two also became
- negligible.

It´s a well knowned fact that Toms Hardware is sponsored by nVidia. It´s a very poor hardware site to say the least.


For Dx 8 games, and especially games that use
- OpenGL, yes, I do

Beyond me, makes me wonder if you ever owned a 9700 PRO or ever played in higher resolutions than 800x600 on anything else than a tv monitor.


I use Q AA in IL2 and FB with the GF3. Loss of only
- 1 frame per sec and it looks really good. Looks
- like crap on all other games. I didnt use AA or
- FSAA with my GF3. As I mentioned, I am now using
- the 9700 Pro for that reason, and get about the same
- frames with AA ans FSAA. But a lot more graphical
- glitches. It is getting better with every driver
- update from ATi, but they are still more numerous
- than I have ever had with the GF3.
- Using those(AA and FSAA), yes, of course the 9700
- Pro is faster. And in dx9 games if they ever come
- out, but that is not what I said.
-
-
If you wasn´t so heavily cpu limited which you definitly are if you get the same framerates with your Geforce 3 and 9700 PRO you would see that the 9700 PRO is more than 150 % faster than your Geforce 3 in just about any setting you throw at it. I have no graphical glitches in FB with my 9700 PRO btw.

-- You have to be SEVERELY cpu limited to find that the
-- Geforce 3 and 9700 PRO got equal performance. What
-- CPU do you got
-
- 1.7 Ghz P4, 400 FSB, 512 Mb of PC800 RDram.
- and
- 2.0 Ghz P4, 400 FSB, 512 Mb of PC2700 Ram
-
- Both are more than sufficient for any game mentioned
- except for FB with a lot of planes flying around.
- In FB, I am CPU limited, but not in any of those
- other games.
-
Yup they are way to slow for the 9700 PRO. Good enough for your Geforce 3 though.


Dont know what to tell you. Maybe we were using
- different video drivers or something. I am not
- saying ATi is "crap", far from it. I would not be
- using their card right now if I thought so.
- However, I dont think Nvidia is crap either, and I
- have experience with both.
-

From what I can tell you think your Geforce 3 is way faster than a Geforce 4 ti-4600. Since my Geforce 4 ti-4600 is way slower than my 9700 PRO in every single setting even withou AA and anisotropic. As I have said have played Morrowind and IL 2 FB with both my old Geforce 4 ti-4600 and while I didn´t have any driver problem with either of my cards I could never make my Geforce 4 ti-4600 run remotely as well as my 9700 PRO. Not in image quality and definiatly not in term of performance. And that´s with a modest XP CPU at 2200+ speeds which is a tad slow for the 9700 PRO.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:02 PM
Duh...


http://www.lamers.com/images/Motorcoach_broch.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:04 PM
oeqvist

Is ATI paying you to say all this? Give it a rest. You made your point 50 posts back.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:09 PM
Rogo does his work well....

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:13 PM
Since you like to compare your Geforce 3 to a 9700 PRO. Here is a link that is subjectivily compairing the existing Geforce ti-4600 to the upcoming 9700 PRO.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzMw

Maybe then you will see why I have hard to buy you get as good framerates with your old Geforce 3 as with your 9700 PRO since you are the first I have ever heard stating that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I have argued with a lot hardcore nVidia fans and nobody has claimed that their Geforce 3/ Geforce 4 competes as the same level as the 9700 PRO..

I find this part quite amusing: "Last, but certainly not least, a benchmark we don't use as it is made by NVIDIA, tweaked by NVIDIA, and configured for NVIDIA hardware, the Chameleon demo. At 1600x1200, the Radeon 9700 doubled the Ti4600 scores."

The dawn demo is ported to ATI cards nowadays and guess what? It looks better than ever and at higher framerates http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Another demo that nVidia has produced to showing off their video cards LOL.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:15 PM
You lost to the FX, and now your picking on the GF cards?

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:25 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- oeqvist
-
- Is ATI paying you to say all this? Give it a rest.
- You made your point 50 posts back.

I like a nice conversation here is that so wrong? I haven´t any better to do at the moment since I am waiting for my new CPU to arrive so I can play some more IL 2 FB on my god send 9700 PRO http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And yes ATI has bought me. After my 9700 PRO love affair I still got no hard words for my little darling.

Why is it okay to say ATi is the crap and not nVidia is teh crap? ATI hasn´t delivered any crappy hardware since before the 8500 while nVidia made their Geforce 3, then released it as Geforce 3 ti-series, than rehashed it again some more to the Geforce 4 ti-4600 and when that couldn´t compete they failed miserably with their 5800 ULTRA.
And then they released their 5900 ULTRA which surprise, surprise was actually really good.

So nVidia has since the Geforce 3 released 3 video card series that isn´t much to cheer for the Gf3 ti and Geforce 4-series which biggest advancement was their better RFI-filters that made higher resolutions than 1024x768 not being so god damn blurry. Am not mentioning the 5800 ULTRA.


So Geforce 3 ti-series teh crap no better than the original Geforce 3:s, Geforce 4 ti-4600 teh crap (still no DX 8.1 support????)

So we should forgive nVidia because they release one good card 5900 ULTRA (though with crappy cheating drivers) but never forgive ATI for being slow on the TNT-Geforce 3 era and the QUACK issue?

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:28 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- You lost to the FX, and now your picking on the GF
- cards?
-
- 25th_Buzz


Who is the childish one now?

Name one FX card that can touch the 9800 PRO in term of image quality? If you say something from a company that starts with a n you got the wrong answer. If not a 5900 ULTRA can compete with a 9800 PRO do you think any older nVidia cards can?

Please read the posts on the subject before posting.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:49 PM
I believe that the from the line from the 4600 to the 5900U is crap and feel no qualms about saying so.

The 5900U is a great card, I might pick one up here in a few months just to try a nvidia card again-BUT all of the other fx cards aren't worth the money when comapred to similar priced ati cards.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:49 PM
You can only compare the two latest cards from each company. Taking the 9700 and comparing it to the GF3 is rediculous. How about I compare the 5900 to the 8500? would you still say the 8500 is better?

I also don't have a clue what blurry image you say the nvidia cards have. I don't see that now, or when I had a GF 2-3-4.

Your also very selective on who's tests you believe. You don't believe Falcon. You don't believe Tom's. You just believe the ones that favor your arguement. Cmon.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:45 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- You can only compare the two latest cards from each
- company. Taking the 9700 and comparing it to the GF3
- is rediculous. How about I compare the 5900 to the
- 8500? would you still say the 8500 is better?
-
- I also don't have a clue what blurry image you say
- the nvidia cards have. I don't see that now, or when
- I had a GF 2-3-4.
-
-
- Your also very selective on who's tests you
- believe. You don't believe Falcon. You don't believe
- Tom's. You just believe the ones that favor your
- arguement. Cmon.
-


Please read the conversation from the start. It´s not me who compares the 9700 PRO to the Geforce 3:s. I agree it´s ridiculous but it was a reply to another guy.

Yes the 5900 ULTRA should be compared to the 9800 PRO.

Geforce cards previous to Geforce 4 suffered from nVidia not being strict enough of the quality of the components used on 3rd party developers. Which translate to the bad RFI-filters I have explained. At higher resolutions then 1024x768 the textures would get progressively more blurry from 1280x960 to 1600x1200. And yes I didn´t notice it so much too until I got my Geforce 4 ti-4600. The difference in sharpness was extreme.

So I looked it up why it could be and was told that nVidia was aware on the problem and the fact that the 8500 IQ was so much better that they put more demands on their 3rd party developers to be allowed to produce Geforce 4 cards.
The Geforce 4 cards also improved 2D quality quite a bit.


Your also very selective on who's tests you
- believe. You don't believe Falcon. You don't believe
- Tom's. You just believe the ones that favor your
- arguement. Cmon.

And yes of course I am selective. Falcon come on? A computer company that sells computer products? Why let them try your computer out when you can do so yourself? Why would you thrust them to thoroughly test the computer when you have know guarantee that they don´t do anything more than just run some generic synthetic benchmarks and at best some IL 2 benchmark? Do you really expect them to use hours sitting down at their computer and subjectively testing specific video cards in term of image quality and trying to get the best tradeoffs between performance/image quality when all they have to do is tell you they have?

That is really naive. Falcon may very well be a very reliable company but you expect far to much and thrust them far to much. Also their opinions doesn´t have to be your opinions.

tomshardware gladly takes money and can´t be thrusted. They have maked fools of themself to many times to have any kind of credibility left.

You should definiatly be more careful with who to thrust and why. Also always look at several sources and don´t get blind.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:04 AM
I would rather be in funny threads. This is to serious, and neither of us is going to change the mind of the other.

I will make one last comment on Falcon. All the gaming system builders have shootouts. Falcon , Alienware, Voodoo etc.

Falcon wins 99% of them, and never o/c's their systems. Alienware and others have been caught o/c in the tests, and still couldn't beat Falcon. The reason is Falcon does a ton of testing. They get the hardware long before the public, and have it all figured out before it hits the market.

You can think what you want about Falcon. I do my homework, and know better. Falcon knows i'll be buying more systems down the line. They arn't going to screw me now, and lose a good customer. Their only goal is to sell me the fastest system they can make. When I ordered my last system. I said "Price doesn't matter. Give me the fastest system you cam make". Why do you think they would do anything but that? If I felt they didn't. I'd be bad mouthing them on every forum I go too, and that's alot of them. Do you think they want that?

OK, i'm pretty much done with this Nvidia/ATI crap.


btw..It doesn't matter if you brought up the GF3/9700 arguement. You were still in it, and it was foolish.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:25 AM
Hopefully they cant spell like you or they soon won't be...in fact......they just might not be........I seem to remember the owners of ATI are under litigation for stock market manipulation and inside trading that they dont have a leg to stand on in beating in the Ontario courts.....Now is this the kind of company you want to support?...not me....also I seem to remember shortly after that ...the company announcing that they will no longer be selling thier products under thier own name but becoming suppliers to 3rd party companies with thier gear....does that sound like a company that believes it has a bright future to you?...it doesnt to me.
This friday I am upgrading to a 5900 and will be smiling when I plunk down my hard earned bucks to get it too...in fact I didnt even give an ATI card a look..I couldnt care less if the 9800 pro is 24 pts faster than a 5900 on some useless benchmark nor do I care that the 5900 is more expensive....I'm getting mine on sale.....my good ol GF2 gave me stellar solid 3.5 yrs of nothing but awesome service....seems to me I remember all the ATI owners whining like babies because the drivers for thier cards were total crap last winter and early spring and lately....I seem to keep reading of more and more dissatisfied ATI stories from users who were sorry they switched over.
I have never used the FFAA on any sim or game I've owned so I highly doubt it that I'll even start this friday when that big bad boy slips in to that AGP slot and starts up for the first time.
smile!!!!

ZG77_Nagual
08-18-2003, 12:29 AM
INteresting - well - you know - in an ethics war Nvidia hasn't exactly set a gold standard lately either.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:39 AM
All I know is I have a G-Force 4 64meg card with the newest FX drivers. It runs every game I own without flaw. I was looking into buying a ATI 9700 but stopped when the sales person that was trying to sell it told me that about 8 - 10 of his older titles wouldn't run with it. About 4 of the games he listed I still play with my GF4. He made my decision for me and was sad that he blew his own sale. lol

Beware of the Flying Tigers /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:41 AM
AT least ati doesn't fook its consumers up the azz.

rogo



<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9good.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:41 AM
true...but they havent exactly been treated fairly either by all the unjust remarks that people who seem to think they know it all but end up knowing very little when the smoke clears and all is said and done. nothing wrong with constructive critcism and certainly nothing wrong with good business competition.....but when it gets slimy then it gets worthless because nothing gets accomplished.....for everyone involved.



Message Edited on 08/17/0311:43PM by GPK99

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:44 AM
Are you guys trying to support nvidia's actions in the last few months?

You can still buy their cards but at least acknowledge that they are underhanded litigating bastards that only care about the published benchmark scores.

Hell-they still won't allow consumers to use trilinear AF in one of the most important titles to be released in the last year and a half. They ruined futuremark's reputation, and they screw with reviews heads by promising one thing and delivering another.

I won't buy a nivida card on priniple-if I ran my coffee buisness the way they run the VGA business I'd be shut down.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9good.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:45 AM
btw..It doesn't matter if you brought up the
- GF3/9700 arguement. You were still in it, and it was
- foolish.

I didn´t brought it up and you can tell the one who brought it up that he is foolish if you want. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Am not saying that Falcon doesn´t build good systems. But just showing high FPS doesn´t mean they necessarily builds the best systems. Not in term of video performance.

To testing a video card for you you have to take image quality into account and not just fps and even if Falcon did actually test their video cards subjectively for IL 2 FB which I highly doubt they would do or whatever you wanted them to try it out it´s their eyes and not yours.

So a much better argument would be I have owned a 9800 PRO and like my current 5900 ULTRA better. That noone can argue with since it´s YOUR opinion and from what I have heard you have got a 9800 PRO and didn´t see the light http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (just kidding).

I still believe that building your system yourself will render maximum performance for the lowest price. I can easily build a system for myself for a lot less than Falcons that easily is way faster.

If ATI was sacrificing image quality for speed in the same was as nVidia does there is no way the 5900 ULTRA could compete with the 9800 PRO for example. That´s why I don´t want the 5900 ULTRA over the 9800 PRO because I can tweak the damn of my 5900 ULTRA (or my friends rather before he switched it for a 9800 PRO) and still don´t being able to get the same image quality as with a 9800 PRO or in most cases even my 9700 PRO. Maybe I could if nVidia let me to run without their optimizations but they refuse to do that for whatever reason.

Yes fps matters we all know that but hell you can run a Geforce 4 mx at 50 fps no problem if you just adjust your IQ settings. High end gaming cards are gaming enthusiasts for getting the best image quality possible not the best fps at ridiculously high prices since people like we are willing to pay for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And yes I do believe nVidia has understood that and have taken a step in the right direction with the 5900 ULTRA with better anisotropic filtering but they hasn´t taken the step fully. To accept that they currently don´t have the same technology ATI has and accepted that they can´t get as high fps as ATI:s current offerings without sacrificing image quality but instead desperatly started with their "game specific optimization program" so that cards get good result in benchmarks and make their stock holders happy and hopefully sell more cards then allowing the user to benefit from true trilinear filtering, higher colour precision and let the game developers decide how the shaders should be handled.

Currently nVidia is no good for the gaming enthusiasts out there. They are letting down the people that made them big in the first place. As different from ATI nVidia got big the same way 3dfx did by developing the best video cards for gaming out there with superior image quality and drivers. Now they don´t have anything of that left.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:56 AM
You seem to have forgot that nVidia earlier been caught with doing very much the same thing... And I don´t buy video cards because of how much their stock is worth I buy the cards with best performance. I haven´t sworned oath to any company. I get the one that best fullfill my needs. And if the NV50 kills the R420 without cheating however unlikely I will get that one.

And nVidia isn´t it just recently they started to develop their own products or was that exclusively for the 5800 ULTRA?

And why would you get a 5900 ULTRA if you didn´t care about image quality. If you never run with antialiasing or anisotropic???? Why don´t you stick with the card you got in that case? Do you got a P 3 750 as well?

And where have you get that of ATI users whining for the last winter and this spring? The ATI whiners are fewer than ever before, but they usually grow up from somewhere every time a new nVidia card is released http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:57 AM
I've noticed the same thing oq

even the nvidiots at nvnews.net are light years more educated than the ones here.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9good.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:57 AM
This thread was meant as a joke and a Rogodogin/Oevquist support thread.

They couldn't stand that an HONEST thread created about how bad ATI went to 5 pages, and have decided to make this thread their little ATI chat support forum.

Doesn't matter what you say Oeqvist will come up with some reply, usually with twisting and distorting facts.

Here's the facts, Nvidia is the leader in the video card industry and the leader in games. If you play games and value compatability and stability, then there is only 1 choice ... Nvidia. ATI? They are just an all-in-wonder home video specialist. Sure they jumped the gun on DX9 and Nvidia has skipped a product cycle, but Nvidia is once again in the leader in the high end, with their mainstream FX5700 soon to follow. Buh-Bye ATI.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:58 AM
oeqvist

You must have missed the part where I said all my games have never looked better?

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:01 AM
Actually this thread was made in retort to the most inane ati bashing thread I've ever seen.

I just don't understand why all of you hardcore nvidiots like to call us ati owners out.

I've owned better nvidia cards than you RJB and the ati ones I've compared to them have been cheaper and superior in all the games I own (about 25) and the BONUS is this:

ATI has better driver support
Better DVD Playback
Better online feedback (devs on rage3d.com)
Better Hardware (except for the 5900U)
Better FSAA
Better 128tap AF
Better Speed
Better 2d display
And Better multimonitor support.

Rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9good.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:07 AM
Nope have seen claim that in a number of threads now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And RBJ. At least we don´t copy and paste our arguments and are trying not to be over generic and try to explain why we have these arguments and back them up. But I guess your arguments are impossible to back up.

BuzzU wrote:
- oeqvist
-
- You must have missed the part where I said all my
- games have never looked better?



Message Edited on 08/18/0312:09AM by oeqvist

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:09 AM
I've been pushed to the limit-Buzz is banned /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:10 AM
I'm exhausted. You win, but i'm keeping my 5900 anyway.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:11 AM
Sorry buzz-I've never said the 5900U wasn't a great card.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:12 AM
Otherwise you can give it for me.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:13 AM
Rogodin

I was talking to oeqvist . You snuck in a post I didn't see../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg



Message Edited on 08/17/0305:14PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:15 AM
Ah got it-my left eyepatch slipped to my ear and I couldn't see /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ZG77_Nagual
08-18-2003, 01:30 AM
RBJ dude - your point of view on this issue is two years old...er...wait a minute..

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:32 AM
hmmmm....

Ok, I wasnt comparing the GeForce3 to a 9700 Pro as a video card review would be. I only stated that in both of my systems, when running Morrowind, Americas Army, IL2, FB, and others, the frame rates are just about identical. I also stated that I used only Q AA with the GeForce3, and when turning both AA and FSAA on the 9700 Pro beats it hands down. What is the problem? In newer games that I own, like Rise of Nations for example, the ATi card beats the heck out of the GeForce3, but that is not what I said. I very explicitly stated that in older, Dx8 games, and especially using OpenGL(like JK2 for example) the 9700 Pro is not really any faster than a GeForce3. And what if I told you that my friend has a 2.4Ghz P4(533fsb, 512MB ram) and the results were the same? Still too slow for the Radeon? Come on. Dont take what I say out of context, its very rude when you do it as intentionally and methodically as you have done.

I wasnt basing all my opinions on synthetic benchmarks and reviews, but rather more on my personal experience with cards from both companies. I dont have poor image quality when using my Nvidia cards, never have. Nor is the ATi quality bad. In a pre patched, driver version 3.2-3.4 CATALYST, fact is FB looked like crap. Textures missing, rendering distances all messed up with my Radeon. I put it(the 9700 Pro) back in after the FB patch and a new driver from ATi was released and all is good now.

Oeqvist - did you even read the reviews I posted?? Toms Hardware was only one of several. Unless you are saying that all those others are "owned" by Nvidia as well. Dont take just one thing and twist it. S~

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Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:34 AM
oeqvist,

Before I leave the subject of Falcon. Let me tell you a little story of why I like them.

On my first system with them. It came with a 9700 Pro. The 9800 wasn't out at the time. In games it worked ok, but in 2D while on forums or windows it would give me errors, and I had to reboot.. They have excellent tech service, and never put you on hold. We ran all kinds of tests to try, and figure it out. Finally they sent me a newer version of the 9700 card. It didn't help. They finally through more testing found it was a conflict with my motherboard. They couldn't apologize enough for not finding it during burn in. In there testing to find the problem. They discovered the 9800 had a slightly different chip, and didn't cause the problem. Even though the 9800 hadn't hit the shelves yet. They sent me one. problem was cured. This was all for free btw.

Now if I had built the system myself. I would have been stuck with the 9700.Nothing was wrong with it, so ATI wouldn't have done anything about it. There was nothing wring with the MB, so Asus wouldn't have done anything. I would have had to eat it. I have a 3 year parts and labor warranty. No questions asked. No down time while you send the part back the the manufacture. Falcon overnights the part to you, and you have it the next morning. If you have any problems with software or the system itself. You don't have to post on a forum, and get 50 wrong answers. You call up Falcon. They have three guys who do nothing but answer the phones. They will spend hours on the phone trying to work out the problem. If you have a problem so big that it can't be worked out on the phone. They will have the system picked up at your door. Overnight it back to them. Fix it, and overnight it back to you. This is worth the extra money I pay to not build it myself. Not to mention it works smooth as silk right out of the box. No IRQ conflics, no nothing.Just click and go.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:36 AM
Hm

Well I comared a msi g4 ti4400 to my radeon 9700non pro in two identical systems, but using the same monitor.

Morrowind was about 30% slower on the ti4400 with no aa and no af using a resolution of 1024x768, with 2xAA and 8x quality AF the 9700 was about 60% faster. THis was also the case with:

ghost recon
black and white
nascar 2003 papayrus
ground control
max payne
and a few others

I find it strange that your tests weren't different. Were they identical systems with fresh OS installs???

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:41 AM
Ive got both ..on my office systems ...the nvidia 5900utra
and the ati 9800pro..
they both are good cards..
I like the user friendly drivers with the nvidia card.
better then the ati drivers

so it to each his own..like a ford or chev.



Chin up ..HUTCH

Be afraid.....Be very afraidhttp://www.afwing.com/images/circus/Mistel.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 04:21 AM
Rogodin wrote:

- I find it strange that your tests weren't different.
- Were they identical systems with fresh OS
- installs???

They were the same computer. I formatted the HD when I installed the Radeon the first time, otherwise I just swapped cards.

I wouldnt call it a test, just every once and a while I would display the frames, and they were pretty much the same.

I purchased the 9700 Pro because I was having stutters during really insense fire fights in AA and sometimes in Morrowind in large cities. Frames would get down below 20 with the GF3. So I got a 9700 PRo, and the games still stuttered during the mentioned bits.

I ran all kinds of synthetic benchmarks, inlcuding 3DMark2001 and 3dmark03. The 9700 Pro absolutely whooped the GeForce in nearly every test. The GeForce3s 3DMark03 scores were abysmal. The difference between the two was about 3500 points in 3DMark03. About 2000 in 3Dmark2001.


But in the games I play they perform practically the same. The only exception are the newest games I have played, inlcuding RIse of Nations and Splinter Cell, where my Radeon is the winner by about 20 frames a sec(with AA and FSAA).

The "waiting" screen for Insurgent Camp for Americans ARmy for instance, was between 35-45 fps with the GF3 and 30-50 with the Radeon. Found that odd, although my max frames increased with the Radeon, sometimes they were actually lower.

On the other hand, in Splinter Cell, the GeForce 3 has trouble staying about 20 frames, while the Radeon hovers at around 40. So I cant understand the argument that my Processor cant take advantage of the Radeon. My frames in Splinter Cell would not be so different if that was the case.

I dont know why you guys are defending ATi so much, unless you are an employee or something similar. Just like I dont understand fanboys of Nvidia. Being a fanboy of a Video Card maker seems silly, because they release new products so quickly, and old products become outdated so quickly, that you cant stay a fan for long. Who has the better card seems to change with every season, so just buy the one you like and seems to have the best driver support at the time. Who cares if it is ATi or Nvidia? They both have made some good cards and some bad cards. Although I had been very satisfied my GeForce3, i didnt feel guilty buying the ATi card, from everything I could read online, it seemed a much better card than the then upcoming FX line. Its that simple. Right now it looks like Nvidia may "take the lead" again. And after that im sure ATi will. What is the big deal?

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

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Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 04:32 AM
I never posted on this board that nvidia was crap-only as a jest in this post. I don't think nvidia sucks-they are just spurious bastarrds, the 5900U is the only decent card they've produced since the 4600, I've bought a few of their cards in the last 2 years.

What I don't like is the nvidiots on this board saying that ati sucks and implying that the people that use ati are morons because nvidia is "the god of video cards."

I never slammed your cards or said that your purchases of nvidia cards were idiotic because nvidia is a shoddy company that produces second rate hardware.

You guys that run nvidia have a few bad apples that like to start threads that slam ati and the people that use their products on a regular basis.

I started this thread as a retort to the "ati is teh crap?" thread.

Rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:44 AM
BuzzU wrote:When I ordered my last system. I said "Price
- doesn't matter. Give me the fastest system you cam
- make".


Wow,Buzz! How much did this "god-system" cost?! I'd love to do whatever you're doing for a living. But as a snot-nosed college student I doubt I'll have the moolah to pay for such a rig any time soon. In any case,your "adverstisement post" about Falcon has me intrigued...

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:20 AM
Rogodin wrote:


- What I don't like is the nvidiots on this board
- saying that ati sucks and implying that the people
- that use ati are morons because nvidia is "the god
- of video cards."

Well, I never said that, so here at least we have come to an agreement. I just hope you understand that I have had and continue to have good experiences with Nvidia cards as well as ATi. You call people "nvidiots", how is that any worse than being an ATi fanboy? Neither position makes sense to me, and I was simply trying convey the idea that neither is "the god of video cards".

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:23 AM
I don't do anything for a living anymore. I'm retired. I made all my money trucking. I have a small house/cabin at a ski resort in the So Calif. mountains 7500 ft up A nice lake in the summer for fishing and boating, and sking in the winter. My other hobby is 4 wheeling my Jeep, and trying to out wrestle my dog. He always wins though.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:56 AM
Hope I have a retirement like that!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 07:00 AM
8th Dos

Understood-I wasn't calling you a nvidiot-just RJB and the other fella that started the "ati is teh crap" thread.

BTW neither of those nvidiots have owned ati and shouldn't be flaming ati users.

I hope to be retired in about 18 years /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 07:58 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- 8th Dos
-
- Understood-I wasn't calling you a nvidiot-just RJB
- and the other fella that started the "ati is teh
- crap" thread.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yes, RBJ is known for his often passionate posts concerning Nvidia. I usually just skip over those.


- BTW neither of those nvidiots have owned ati and
- shouldn't be flaming ati users.
-
- I hope to be retired in about 18 years


Damn, I still have about 40 years ahead of me, if I'm lucky. Hopefully I win the lottery or something far before then.

Well, I hope that just about settles this whole "teh crap" thing. S~ Rogo.



Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:21 AM
Well, let't see. About 3-4 years ago, it was TNT, then TNT2. Where was ATI? Big problems. No good gaming card. Only for bussines. Now, may be that ATI take lead. But that's all about. Before TNT, there was 3DFX... But IMHO there is no need to say that any of them is crap.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:34 AM
I think it's a good thing that ATI has got it's act together,it puts preasure on Nvidia to make better cards, and vis versa.As a rule I will buy whats best at the time.

But with the system I have now it is not possable to use ATI cards the software conflicts with my MoBo.So for now it's Nvidia all the way.

No1RAAF_Pourshot


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CAC-15.jpg

How many people think this is a p-51/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:47 AM
juz one thing.

Radeon 9800 Rules.

remember that.

<center>

http://www.geocities.com/warhawk530/AVG.jpg


'It is the Courage, not the score, that counts ...' - Mohd Naqiuddin

Zayets
08-18-2003, 09:56 AM
I love RBJ!!!


Zayets out

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:40 PM
Rogodin wrote:
- I never posted on this board that nvidia was
- crap-only as a jest in this post. I don't think
- nvidia sucks-they are just spurious bastarrds, the
- 5900U is the only decent card they've produced since
- the 4600, I've bought a few of their cards in the
- last 2 years.
-
- What I don't like is the nvidiots on this board
- saying that ati sucks and implying that the people
- that use ati are morons because nvidia is "the god
- of video cards."



This was also my point , the ATI dark days are gone , now they make excelent hardware and drivers wich are both on par with Nvidias .
Stuff change always hands , now is ATI , later , Nvidia will be back and take the crowd .
You can clearly see this also with the shares prices and the contracts .
Nvidia droped from 26 $ to 16 $ lately and ATI pumped from 3.90 $ in the last 5 monts to 13 $ right now ,...share holders are not stupid .
Micro$oft (Xbox 2) and Play station signed both contracts with ATI and one thing is sure , Micro$oft know well his stuff , quote from Robbie Bach (VP of M$FT) :

"We selected ATI after reviewing the top graphics technologies in development and determining that ATI's technical vision fits perfectly with the future direction of Xbox," Robbie Bach, senior vice-president of Microsoft's home and entertainment division, said.
Microsoft and ATI share the same passion for cutting-edge innovation ,we believe that once investors become convinced that the leadership of the industry has changed hands, ATI will be accorded the 'industry leader's' premium multiple."

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:43 PM
US_8th_Dosiere wrote:
- hmmmm....
-
- Ok, I wasnt comparing the GeForce3 to a 9700 Pro as
- a video card review would be. I only stated that in
- both of my systems, when running Morrowind, Americas
- Army, IL2, FB, and others, the frame rates are just
- about identical. I also stated that I used only Q
- AA with the GeForce3, and when turning both AA and
- FSAA on the 9700 Pro beats it hands down. What is
- the problem? In newer games that I own, like Rise
- of Nations for example, the ATi card beats the heck
- out of the GeForce3, but that is not what I said. I
- very explicitly stated that in older, Dx8 games, and
- especially using OpenGL(like JK2 for example) the
- 9700 Pro is not really any faster than a GeForce3.
- And what if I told you that my friend has a 2.4Ghz
- P4(533fsb, 512MB ram) and the results were the same?
- Still too slow for the Radeon? Come on. Dont take
- what I say out of context, its very rude when you do
- it as intentionally and methodically as you have
- done.
-
-
- I wasnt basing all my opinions on synthetic
- benchmarks and reviews, but rather more on my
- personal experience with cards from both companies.
- I dont have poor image quality when using my Nvidia
- cards, never have. Nor is the ATi quality bad. In
- a pre patched, driver version 3.2-3.4 CATALYST, fact
- is FB looked like crap. Textures missing, rendering
- distances all messed up with my Radeon. I put
- it(the 9700 Pro) back in after the FB patch and a
- new driver from ATi was released and all is good
- now.
-
- Oeqvist - did you even read the reviews I posted??
- Toms Hardware was only one of several. Unless you
- are saying that all those others are "owned" by
- Nvidia as well. Dont take just one thing and twist
- it. S~

First of all it´s impossible for a Geforce 3 to run at the same framerates as the 9700 PRO. It´s absolutely impossible. My Geforce 4 ti-4600 beat the crap of my Geforce 3 ti-500 and it aren´t remotely on the same level as the performance on my 9700 PRO even if it´s bottlenecked by my 2200+ CPU. So you must have done some major wrong with your testing or you got some hardware configuration problem with your 9700 PRO making it perform 200 % less than it should.

And the reviews you send is the new 5900 ULTRA not the Geforce 3? What do it relate to you saying you get the same fps with the Geforce 3 as an 9700 PRO? And yes the 5900 ULTRA is generally faster than the 9700 PRO but you where compairing your Geforce 3 to a 9700 ULTRA????

It doesn´t matter if it´s dx 9 or dx 8. Dx 9 video cards don´t run dx 8 games less good far from it. It´s quite self saying that dx 9 cards are more technically advanced than dx 8 parts with better Pixel and vertex shaders.

Do you think your geforce 3 performs better than the 5800 ULTRA??? Do you think you will find any review that says the Geforce 3/4 gives as good frame rates as 9700 PRO and newer cards?

With or without aa. No currently available Geforce 3/Geforce 4 can come close to the Radeons or for that sake 5800 ULTRA in dx 9 or dx 8 or dx 7 games. Maybe you should try even if I hate 3DMARK to compare your scores with others. Maybe you would see that you got some problem with your system? Maybe I could help you out?

oh I say your 3DMARK scores and you should have noticed a bigger difference in 3DMARK 2001SE than just a mere 2000 points. That was what I got from my Geforce 4 ti-4600. But 3DMark 2001SE is very much a CPU benchmark...





Message Edited on 08/18/0312:03PM by oeqvist

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:58 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- oeqvist,
-
- Before I leave the subject of Falcon. Let me tell
- you a little story of why I like them.
-
-
- On my first system with them. It came with a 9700
- Pro. The 9800 wasn't out at the time. In games it
- worked ok, but in 2D while on forums or windows it
- would give me errors, and I had to reboot.. They
- have excellent tech service, and never put you on
- hold. We ran all kinds of tests to try, and figure
- it out. Finally they sent me a newer version of the
- 9700 card. It didn't help. They finally through more
- testing found it was a conflict with my motherboard.
- They couldn't apologize enough for not finding it
- during burn in. In there testing to find the
- problem. They discovered the 9800 had a slightly
- different chip, and didn't cause the problem. Even
- though the 9800 hadn't hit the shelves yet. They
- sent me one. problem was cured. This was all for
- free btw.
-
-
- Now if I had built the system myself. I would have
- been stuck with the 9700.Nothing was wrong with it,
- so ATI wouldn't have done anything about it. There
- was nothing wring with the MB, so Asus wouldn't have
- done anything. I would have had to eat it. I have a
- 3 year parts and labor warranty. No questions asked.
- No down time while you send the part back the the
- manufacture. Falcon overnights the part to you, and
- you have it the next morning. If you have any
- problems with software or the system itself. You
- don't have to post on a forum, and get 50 wrong
- answers. You call up Falcon. They have three guys
- who do nothing but answer the phones. They will
- spend hours on the phone trying to work out the
- problem. If you have a problem so big that it can't
- be worked out on the phone. They will have the
- system picked up at your door. Overnight it back to
- them. Fix it, and overnight it back to you. This is
- worth the extra money I pay to not build it myself.
- Not to mention it works smooth as silk right out of
- the box. No IRQ conflics, no nothing.Just click and
- go.


First of all I haven´t said Falcon got bad support or anything I am just saying that you should better thrust yourself then them when it comes to something as subjective as getting a new high end video card. When it comes to CPU and memory FPS means everything because you can´t really cheat with that hardware but it´s very easy to do with video cards (that´s why both nVidia and ATI has been caught in the cookie jar in the past and now nVidia again in the present sadly.) You thought they would have learned by now.

And that it´s unrealistic that they optimize their computers for other than fps that is very easy since they can run benchmarks and not sitting by their computer every time for every single computer they setup which quite soon would render them out of business.

Sure they got great support but if I build my computer myself everytime something break if I don´t want to wait a week or two for the replacement I can buy something completely new and possible better and still my computer cost less http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And it´s more fun putting your own optimized computer together.

But it´s great for those who have no interest in hardware and just want to play their games though and got the money http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My computer was build in a day. Really easy and no problem whatsoever. Apart from my zillion part heatpipe perhaps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:19 PM
Superluminal wrote:
- This remind me of the "Amiga is better than Atari"
- days.


Me too. The Amiga *was* better, by the way...

Anyway; I had my sights on an Nvidia card for my new system, but this thread has almost convinced me to try out an ATI card. Just a question: How "high" do I have to go in the ATI-range to avoid those problems ATI is/was infamous for? I am a bit limited in the cash department, and I can't afford throwing my money at a crap card that does'nt deliver on its promises.


----------------------------



"I don't know what weapons World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
-A. Einstein
"And any leftover assault weapons" -Fallout Fan


"The PL was a great place, full of interesting folks. It was fun to fly online with poeple you knew from the Lounge. We need an off topic place. A community can't talk only about the sim we play. This is truly a sad day." -Tate Bruce

"What? Nowhere to scream "yank!" anymore?" -Me

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:03 PM
Sighs, The key words there in your post is ATI lovers, so why should the Nvidia lovers listen?

I don't see what the big deal is i have both cards in two comps, the Ti4600 in one and the Ati 9500 in the other and there is really little difference in the two, to even warrent the crap one must read about card loving.

But to sum it up, look through tech suppoort forums, you will see more problems and questions related to ATI then Nvidia. Does it make the latter better?

That depends on if you want a card you can pop in and go, or if you want one that has to be tweaked to certian limits just to preform.

In the end with the latest cards out there from either one you can't really go wrong it's all in what you can afford, not what one lover of a card to another says.

As for the price either side on the top end you are going to pay for, where you might find one cheaper at one store another will have the other cheaper etc etc etc.

May you not become a dirt torpedo.

Rogodin wrote:
- From some of the posts I've read at a few websites
- across the net-nvnews.net, hardocp forum,
- anandforums, I've come to the conclusion that nvidia
- cards are worthless pieces of silicon. I don't care
- what reviewers or people in this board say (you
- obviously aren't listening to the ati users here
- that love their cards JR) because they are wrong and
- I am right.
-
- ATI is the king.
-
- rogo
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- <center><img src
- =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/album
- s/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>
-
- <center><img src
- =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/album
- s/userpics/Rogo_s%20Sig.jpg>
-
-
- "Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I
- look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a
- quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @
- 20,000ft looking downwards.
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
-
-



PlatinumDragon...

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:11 PM
Heh sorry for the double post but hey look in tech support first page as always there is this.

"I have not long puchased a radeon 9800 pro card and downloaded the 3.6 catalyst driver which I installed In the patch release notes it says to use the 3.4 driver so how do I take out the old 3.6 driver and replace it with the 3.4
I am getting weird landscape details it looks like lines radiating from a single point. I would post a screen shot but the new video card will not work and it seems that has not been fixed up in this patch.
Kind regards to anyone who can help "

Hmm hope you see my point.

May you not become a dirt torpedo.


PlatinumDragon...

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:01 PM
This argument makes as much sense as arguing which %#$$ing hair colour is better. Jezuz, who gives a $hIt as long as you are happy with your individual cards? I have a GeForce 3 Ti200 and am completely happy with it. It has performed great on everything I throw at it. When I upgrade, if it's to an ATI or an NVidia, as long as it works for me I won't give a flying funk what brand it is as long as it works.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:04 PM
PlatinumDragon wrote:
- Heh sorry for the double post but hey look in tech
- support first page as always there is this.
-
- "I have not long puchased a radeon 9800 pro card and
- downloaded the 3.6 catalyst driver which I installed
- In the patch release notes it says to use the 3.4
- driver so how do I take out the old 3.6 driver and
- replace it with the 3.4
- I am getting weird landscape details it looks like
- lines radiating from a single point. I would post a
- screen shot but the new video card will not work and
- it seems that has not been fixed up in this patch.
- Kind regards to anyone who can help "
-
- Hmm hope you see my point.
-


And if you read the patch readme you saw that this will be fixed in the 3.7.

hope you see my point.

And you can get whatever radeon you like all uses the same awesome Catalyst drivers. Developed by nVidias detonator team actually but that noone in here wants to gain knowledge about.

And the ATI cards is very much plug and play. At least on my nforce 2 board. In the mainboard area nVidia is really producing the best chipset for AMD boards. And thankfully they haven´t incorporated a virus that kills all ATI boards LOL.

As I have said earlier have run my overclocked system completely stable for about half a year now. And the part of my system that is stressed the most is my video card so know fault there. More stable than ever my previous Geforce cards but since I bought my Geforce 3 ti-500 and Geforce 4 ti-4600 when they was completely fresh their drivers had their child diseases, both video card and chipset drivers. Via anyone???

If you want to get a good card from nVidia you only have one choice and it´s quite expensive 5900 ULTRA.

If you want to choose a Radeon you got 9700 PRO, 9500 PRO, the little bit slower 9600 PRO and of course the 9800 PRO (and yes 9500 PRO isn´t much faster than the ti-4600, the performance except aa and anisotropic is quite identical but the Radeons take virtually know performance hit by aa and anisotropic and their image quality can´t be beaten.

That and the fact that the 9500 PRO can take advantage of 8 pipelines instead of just 4 through simple use of a tweaker.

So definiatly try it out and if you don´t like it you can always send it back and get a Geforce card instead. My bet is that will never happen.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:57 PM
Yes i see your point but again the key word is fix. I'm not defending what card you should have in either aspect. I just comment on what folks say and feel.

You are taking one example i gave but if you look through the pages again you will see more trouble with the ATI cards. But again doesnt mean its a bad card just if you want less headaches go with Nvidia. It really doesnt matter anyway by next year they will all be out of date, so just buy what you can afford and hope it will play most of the games for the next few years, before having to upgrade again.

Looking back at the old 2mb cards i think both sides have come along way with their products and you'll never find the best for sooner or later someone will make it better.

May you not become a dirt torpedo.

PlatinumDragon...

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:18 PM
Let me say one more thing about these great drivers that ATI is supposed to have. Since we're talking on an IL2/FB forum. Let's see how ATI is doing. From the 1.1b patch readme:

NB: Note to ATI users
We strongly recommend using ATI Catalyst 3.4 Driver, because versions 3.5 and 3.6 may cause lock-ups in Perfect Mode. This problem may be solved with the next version (3.7) of the ATI drivers.

Not fixed features

1. On ATI 9700 screenshot function does not work


Note, that is says the 3.7 may fix it. It didn't sy it would. I also don't see one thing in the readme about any problems with nvidia.

For you people who say there are no problems with ATI cards. Have your head in the sand. There are problems. In many games, and there has been for a long time. Some of them will never be fixed, as the games are older now, and ATI has given up on them. I think some of you forget the reputation ATI used to have about crappy drivers. They were the worst. They have gotten better, but still fall behind nvidia by quite a bit.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:34 PM
No they're not buzz.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:35 PM
yes but the odd thing is I have none of them. Except overly poor performance in perfect mode which is weird since people with geforce 3 seems to run perfect just fine or that is what they tell me.

So if it´s something with ATI:s driver being so crappy why is I not encountering them? I have no magic 9700 PRO just a plain simple Crucial 9700 PRO which sticks firmly to the reference ATI design.

I haven´t had any headaches with my 9700 PRO but I sure had with my Geforce 3 ti-500 and Geforce 4 ti-4600. You aren´t guaranteed flawless performance or perfect compability with neither nVidia or ATI.


That ATI got crap drivers and more complex to use is really a myth and have been so for so long now it´s really astonishing how many who still think nvidia got the best drivers, plug and play and everything???

I remember when first playing the UT 2K3 demo and RSC which both featured the "nvidia the way it´s meant to be played" logo. Funnily these two games was the one that ran most poorly on my computer. Stuttering all the time and UT2K3 virtually unplayable. Put in my 9700 PRO in this nVidia advertized games and all problems gone.

I can honestly say that the Catalyst drivers contains less bugs than any of the detonator series did.

So buy the 5900 ULTRA if you want to but don´t tell people that ATI:s driver is worse since it´s simply not true. Does that mean that ATI cards may run well on every mainboard out there? No? does that mean nVidia cards run well on every mainboard out there? Definiatly not.

But the thing is that any big issues I have had with video where related to mainboard drivers not video card drivers.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:46 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Let me say one more thing about these great drivers
- that ATI is supposed to have. Since we're talking on
- an IL2/FB forum. Let's see how ATI is doing. From
- the 1.1b patch readme:
-
- NB: Note to ATI users
-
- We strongly recommend using ATI Catalyst 3.4 Driver,
- because versions 3.5 and 3.6 may cause lock-ups in
- Perfect Mode. This problem may be solved with the
- next version (3.7) of the ATI drivers.
-
- Not fixed features
-
- 1. On ATI 9700 screenshot function does not work
-
-
- Note, that is says the 3.7 may fix it. It didn't
- sy it would. I also don't see one thing in the
- readme about any problems with nvidia.
-
-
- For you people who say there are no problems with
- ATI cards. Have your head in the sand. There are
- problems. In many games, and there has been for a
- long time. Some of them will never be fixed, as the
- games are older now, and ATI has given up on them. I
- think some of you forget the reputation ATI used to
- have about crappy drivers. They were the worst. They
- have gotten better, but still fall behind nvidia by
- quite a bit.
-


Buzz you start to sound scarily much like RBJ.

and it was a terrible list if glitches

Oh my good screenshot function does not work, I need to use FRAPS.

And so far what the Catalyst team have said they would fix they have fixed and damn fast too. Again something for nvidia to take after.

If you stick your head outside of IL 2 FB you will see there are LESS issues with the 9800 PRO than your nVidia cards. Just run nVidia advertized games like UT 2K3 and Rallisport challenge for example. Or just about any game.

ATI drivers was the worst 2 years ago? Why does it matter today? Do you think Nvidias detonator team has gotten worse? They are the reason ATI tops the WHQL-ranking for most bugfree and stabile drivers. Yes I know it hurts, nvidia is second best in the driver department now too, bummer isn´t it? At least they run IL 2 FB well that´s a comfort http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You see ATI has the best hardware that noone could argue about. They also got the best and highest rated drivers out there so who to blame?

The game developers who rushes their game without proper beta testing of course and mainboard manufacturers not following spec or producing crappy drivers. I got a nVidia board and it work flawless thankfully but they haven´t released any new nforce drivers since the 2.43 I think it was.

Damn this forum is like travelling back in time sometimes.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:22 PM
I only gave FB as an example, because we are on the FB forum. I can give you a long list of problems in other games. One of them so bad, that's it's the reason I switched back to nvidia.

I'm just trying to show both sides of the story, because some guys will read this thread, snd make a decision on which card to buy.

25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:23 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I only gave FB as an example, because we are on the
- FB forum. I can give you a long list of problems in
- other games. One of them so bad, that's it's the
- reason I switched back to nvidia.
-
- I'm just trying to show both sides of the story,
- because some guys will read this thread, snd make a
- decision on which card to buy.

Yes but there is so many nVidia fanboys out there we ATI fanboys has to work 10 times as hard. We generally do have the benefit of having waste experience of both ATI and nvidia cards though since most of us started out with 3dfx than nvidia, nvidia, nvidia and then ATI http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Have no clue what the future will bring. I will definiatly keep my 9700 PRO until the real next generation card comes out. As it looks now it´s ether a nvidiot or fanATIc.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:49 PM
oeqvist, you need to re read my posts. You sound like a broken record. Of course, as an ATi fanboy(why?), you will never admit to anything from Nvidia coming close to anything from ATi, and therefore resort to calling my a liar. I do in fact get the same frames more or less in the games mentioned, using either cards. So, YES, it is possible. I dont even own a 9700 Pro? Are you an asshat? Here you go, a little cut and paste from my dxdiag:

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: RADEON 9700 PRO
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: RADEON 9700 AGP (0x4E44)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E44&SUBSYS_00021002&REV_00
Display Memory: 128.0 MB
Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (32 bit) (75Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.6368 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 6/25/2003 17:40:44, 302592 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes

Now what? Did you read ANY of of my posts? Well? Did you ever take an English class in your life so you can understand what I was typing? Dont even bother replying to this cuz I am done with you and this stupid thread.

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Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:14 AM
US_8th_Dosiere wrote:
- oeqvist, you need to re read my posts. You sound
- like a broken record. Of course, as an ATi
- fanboy(why?), you will never admit to anything from
- Nvidia coming close to anything from ATi, and
- therefore resort to calling my a liar. I do in fact
- get the same frames more or less in the games
- mentioned, using either cards. So, YES, it is
- possible. I dont even own a 9700 Pro? Are you an
- asshat? Here you go, a little cut and paste from my
- dxdiag:

I am reading your posts and that you are not owning a 9700 PRO was more that I couldn´t believe you owned an 9700 PRO and not notice the extreme performance difference between the Geforce 3 and 9700 PRO.

I wasn´t calling you a liar, please read my post again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Can´t understand you flaming me from my post when you hasn´t even read mine correctly in the first place. Go post in any forums that you get the same fps from a Geforce 3 or a 9700 PRO and see what guys tells you...


What my argue with was that from your post I got the impression that you get the same fps with your Geforce 3 than a 9700 PRO in dx 8 games? I have replayed old games like System shock 2 and Thief 2, Half Life and that is really dx 7 games I would guess but still they run more than 3 times the framerate as my Geforce 3 ever did. But you would expect that from 4 year old games wouldn´t you?

And that being an ATI fanboy becomes quite natural if you find your radeon being so much better than any other gaming card out there. But maybe fanboys should stick with their brand whatever what so I don´t know if I qualify. Have never said I would never buy a nVidia videocard again. That would be stupid since nVidia will eventually come back that I am sure of. 5900 ULTRA is a step on the right track even if they are going the wrong way with their drivers.

Hopefully they still listens to their consumers and change route. They have to at some time or otherwise they will find themself being all alone in a corner.

Oh and please dare to reply to this thread if you want to, I won´t bite.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:39 AM
Technically, the FX 5900 Ultra is the king of the cards right now. The 9800 Pro is its close second... although you're right, most of the FX cards and the NVidia lines in general are now obsolete. Hell, most of the FX cards were obsolete before they were released...

The world is filled with idiots. Some of them happen to want to take away any and all video games, that's all.