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Ubi-Genevieve
04-01-2015, 05:12 PM
The heartbeat sensor is a tool that's been a part of the Rainbow Six universe since the book and the first game were published. This is why it is one of the unique gadgets we have chosen to implement in Rainbow Six Siege, but we need to make sure it's done right.

We hear you that in the version you saw during the livestream and press coverage, the heartbeat sensor was overpowered, and we agree with you. The final Closed Alpha version will therefore be updated from the version you were presented, and we've already made a tweak to the gadget that will reduce its detection range from 20m. to 15m. The display of the heart was broken and was shown at all distances (infinite) and is now capped at 15m. We have also altered its visual feedback. I will be adding a picture of it here as soon as possible (feel free to come back this afternoon or tomorrow!)

We'll be awaiting your feedback during the Closed Alpha regarding this balance, as well as our player-behavior tracking results before doing additional alterations to the heartbeat sensor.

Thank you all for the conversation and feedback you've given on the Closed Alpha coverage thus far. We are carefully reviewing all threads and feedback. We know there are some other important topics that you would like us to address, and we'll be paying extra attention to these in the Closed Alpha as well.

Edit : Adding the pictures of the visual update made on heartbeat sensor. There will be a red ripple effect.

Out of range :
http://i.imgur.com/38tbyCi.png

In range (within 15m.) - note that the ! before the 7M. will not be present in our future version. This is not a final release:
http://i.imgur.com/4QRm9Lv.png

Note that this is still a work-in-progress and we are still iterating on it.This is just an update of it's current state for you!

Cortexian
04-01-2015, 05:42 PM
As I said on the subreddit, that's a good start... However if Siege uses realistic measurements the 15m radius (49.2 ft) is still much to large. A typical semi-fancy suburban two-story home like the one featured on the House map likely has 8-10 ft celings. I'm leaning closer to 10 ft celings myself without actually sitting down and carefulyl comparing everything.

With a 49 ft radius we can sit in the basement or top-floor of the building and see both floors above/below us, outwards by 3-4 rooms and see people coming from a long ways off.

IMO, to promote slower and more methodical gameplay, you need to lower the radius to 8-10 m (26 - 32 ft). That would encourage people to scan "room by room" instead of camping in one spot and giving omnipotent intel to your team.

I may eat my words after getting some more experience in the Closed Alpha, but I feel like my opinoin on this particular fact likely won't change much. We'll see after I get a chance to go hands on for an extended duration!

SLYSIR
04-01-2015, 08:19 PM
Good day guys,

"Merci Geneviève pour ton commentaire" Maybe the R6 Siege team should comment more often here because some guys are really discouraging fast !
To get more often comments of the team would be very appreciate...... don't you think ?

I know you guys are very busy making the BEST GAME ever.....

Ubi-Genevieve
04-01-2015, 10:54 PM
Good day guys,

"Merci Geneviève pour ton commentaire" Maybe the R6 Siege team should comment more often here because some guys are really discouraging fast !
To get more often comments of the team would be very appreciate...... don't you think ?

I know you guys are very busy making the BEST GAME ever.....

Merci, thanks! Glad this satisfies you. We will try to be more active as we move forwards, but with the limited amount of information we can share, it's not always relevant to post. This should get better as we get more advanced into our development process. We do read the forums & subreddit daily so you are definately being heard :)

King-Grayskull
04-02-2015, 03:44 AM
As a long time competitive R6 player, please please don't give up on the hb sensor. Limited, yes...but an awesome part of the series that shouldn't be discounted. Thanks for your work!

RESlDENTEVIL 6
04-02-2015, 04:29 AM
As I said on the subreddit, that's a good start... However if Siege uses realistic measurements the 15m radius (49.2 ft) is still much to large. A typical semi-fancy suburban two-story home like the one featured on the House map likely has 8-10 ft celings. I'm leaning closer to 10 ft celings myself without actually sitting down and carefulyl comparing everything.

With a 49 ft radius we can sit in the basement or top-floor of the building and see both floors above/below us, outwards by 3-4 rooms and see people coming from a long ways off.

IMO, to promote slower and more methodical gameplay, you need to lower the radius to 8-10 m (26 - 32 ft). That would encourage people to scan "room by room" instead of camping in one spot and giving omnipotent intel to your team.

I may eat my words after getting some more experience in the Closed Alpha, but I feel like my opinoin on this particular fact likely won't change much. We'll see after I get a chance to go hands on for an extended duration!

15 is way to far

I for one have never played a rainbow six game, not because their bad I just was never exposed.

Having seen the adds on youtube and the lifestream, I can safely garuntee my purchase but after a week of watching gameplay and reviews, as I do for all games.

this said, if a flaw like this remains in launch, I will hear of it in my reviewers I watch and I will be disappointed that the game didn't live to the realism and intensity it could have.

Were not buying this game because were worried about campers, WERE BUYING TO BE PARANOID OF CAMPERS :) reduce from 15 to 6 I say. that spans a fairly sized room, and all I would want from the gadget is to see across a SINGLE room

to be honest id be happy if the heartbeat didn't exist

what does it add to the gameplay really that isn't already there and balanced well enough on its own?
like I said I haven't played a rb6 game yet, so maybe, im blind to the nostalgia, which could be a good thing, think about it.

you have drones that can travel room and see whats in there? nice someinfo not to much, can be countered by relocating if spotted, and can be destroyed. solid. balanced.
you have cameras, only a few, and the locations known to both teams, and takes away your defence while used. solid. balanced

then you have heartbeat monitors. you can see 15 meters, basically the entire building in a straight line. cant be destroyed. your position isn't neccesarily known to the enemy team. your only briefly defenceless from what I hear, and you can enter towards your information potentially faster then that of a camera, since its relative to YOUR positon, and not a FIXED one. Unsolid. Not at all balanced

I do say remove it entirely, we don't need it

RESlDENTEVIL 6
04-02-2015, 06:55 AM
"The first step towards change is awareness, the second is acceptance"

oOMeowthOo
04-02-2015, 09:39 PM
Very nice, heart beat sensor was only for defender team correct?

Ubi-Genevieve
04-02-2015, 10:29 PM
Very nice, heart beat sensor was only for defender team correct?

Correct!

Ubi-Genevieve
04-02-2015, 10:39 PM
Added the updated visual representation of the heartbeat sensor in OP.

Note that this is still a work-in-progress and we are still iterating on it.This is just an update of it's current state for you!

xSigmaXx
04-03-2015, 03:16 PM
That was quick, thank you very much !

As the heartbeat sensor was my only problem with the game, i'm now really confident that Siege will be an awesome game with some serious legs.

Normally people who like something tend to not express their opinion, so with the ongoing "identity crisis discussions",
i'd like to say that the footage of the Alpha i've seen so far is fantastic, i really like the high intense quick rounds (tactical doesn't necessarily mean slow).

The fact that the multiplayer is based on an one-life only mode alone sets it apart from CoD, BF etc.

So keep up the good work !

RESlDENTEVIL 6
04-04-2015, 10:32 AM
I just assumed that the attackers got the heartbeat, since it wouldn't be fair at all for the defenders to get them?!? I'm so confused as to how this is considered balanced then? I understand it's cool and it's gadgets but in this game and in a hostage siège situation, it's seem an attempt gone gimmicky to me. Correct me if I'm wrong here ubi, but are the defenders not supposed to prep a good " castle " to accommodate as best to any situation that might happen? Are they not supposed to make a decision between thinning out and gain g knowledge through high risks of more ground covered for more info but less company to get your back, or even try bein in a room or two of eachother and the hostage, lots of back up, and traps set eagerly hoping the door that they are looking at is chosen, but not enough info gathered since lack of spreading out? Is it not that high risk of radio comm or high risk of the door behind you that is truly the suspense and reaction intensifying adrenaline that creates a good siège game? Now here me out. If the defenders have this heartbeat, at any range, it ruins both above situations. Spreading out is now pointless, if you move, follow the guy with heartbeat. Info is gathered with ease. Fortify a room or two and hold it tight. No suspense, have a guy watch all entrances at once with a heartbeat.

Look if u have to implement it, which I am yet to see more then a hand full of people argue for it, please at least take these balances into consideration. Very slow on screen reaction compared to real time presence. Ex. Watching through a door, breacher arrives at said door, isn't noticed despite being looked right at. But after a second or 1.5 seconds of being near inactive ie setting a charge, he is noticed on heartbeat.

Or my personal favourite, slow to detect regular heartbeats, ie every 5 seconds heartbeat tool updates position of enemy of full health. ( this is balanced so that you must be using it for a period to be shot or killed and to risk it for the info. ) Injured enemies will be updated faster, since their hearts beat faster. This helps to keep the heartbeat a steady stream of info, the way the development team seams to want it.

Somehow make it heart to read, have fake heartbeats the tool picks up on accident, have it really sensitive so that it takes a couple seconds to start working initially do something it's unbalanced as is and ruins a lot of suspense.

I for one want to be in a castle I built, I which I fortified the front and back, because I have no idea where there coming from. I WANT A REAL TIME REACTION CHALLENGE!!! Not a camp the door their coming through dude with the heartbeat said they were c4 detonating challenge.

RESlDENTEVIL 6
04-04-2015, 10:53 AM
That was quick, thank you very much !

As the heartbeat sensor was my only problem with the game, i'm now really confident that Siege will be an awesome game with some serious legs.

Normally people who like something tend to not express their opinion, so with the ongoing "identity crisis discussions",
i'd like to say that the footage of the Alpha i've seen so far is fantastic, i really like the high intense quick rounds (tactical doesn't necessarily mean slow).

The fact that the multiplayer is based on an one-life only mode alone sets it apart from CoD, BF etc.

So keep up the good work !

To each their own I suppose, and if appealing to a larger market is worth more to the devs then a quality game that grows over time greater then it would with the initial burst and defeat of popularized gaming as of late, then so be it.
I and the mass of gamers who can apreciate a realistic, high suspense reaction based game, would surely be more willing to buy a game that has been carefully considered to keep the game as immersive, fluidly paced and demanding to your teamwork as possible, over what has turned out to be as crutching with the outlines, speedy character, lots of ammo self sufficient and lone wolfy as this game has come.

I feel lots of small details over looked or ignored to reach popular audiences will be the death of this game. What a shame, I really wanted it when I saw it scripted. But it's not a role playing game. We're not gonna hold half way forward to role play controlled and precise normal movement. We're gonna push as far as were allowed and get to the other side of the map in seconds.


But don't praise them for making sure they implemented the bottom line of a breach and clear game. That's like going up to your local drivers ed taking your drivers test and passing just because you strapped your seat belt on before driving.

Syndromes
04-04-2015, 03:38 PM
To each their own I suppose, and if appealing to a larger market is worth more to the devs then a quality game that grows over time greater then it would with the initial burst and defeat of popularized gaming as of late, then so be it.
I and the mass of gamers who can apreciate a realistic, high suspense reaction based game, would surely be more willing to buy a game that has been carefully considered to keep the game as immersive, fluidly paced and demanding to your teamwork as possible, over what has turned out to be as crutching with the outlines, speedy character, lots of ammo self sufficient and lone wolfy as this game has come.

I feel lots of small details over looked or ignored to reach popular audiences will be the death of this game. What a shame, I really wanted it when I saw it scripted. But it's not a role playing game. We're not gonna hold half way forward to role play controlled and precise normal movement. We're gonna push as far as were allowed and get to the other side of the map in seconds.


But don't praise them for making sure they implemented the bottom line of a breach and clear game. That's like going up to your local drivers ed taking your drivers test and passing just because you strapped your seat belt on before driving.

I've known about Rainbow Six for a long time, but I've only ever really played Rainbow Six: Vegas 1&2's multiplayer which I loved back in the day. That considered, this gameplay seems radically different from what I'm used to, but still amazing nonetheless. People are already worried that the Heartbeat Sensor will be OP, developers respond with a thread to discuss how to handle a staple gadget of the entire franchise. What's not to love about these guys? People are worried because only the Defenders will be able to use the Sensor, but I imagine the Attackers will have their own share of useful gadgets the Defenders won't get? And that there will be some kind of piece of equipment to counter the Heartbeat Sensor? I know there's EMP grenades already so it doesn't really bother me at all. Not to mention, we get to play as both sides anyway.

Also, your comment about this game promoting a 'lone wolf' kind of playstyle is probably inaccurate. The Last of Us's multiplayer could be played with a lone wolf playstyle as well, but trust me, one lone wolf against a co-ordinated team doesn't stand a chance. I suspect this game will be no different.

As for my take on the Heartbeat Sensor, I haven't seen it or played the game yet, but from what I've read I do think you might want to fiddle around with the detection distances. Like someone already said in this thread, try testing it out vertically more than anything. Being able to spot 2 floors down while being in the attic with a gadget might be a bit too overpowered.

In any case, I'm extremely excited to play the beta. Pre-ordered the game to get a code and am patiently waiting for it to start! You can expect more feedback from me when I get to play the game itself, which I'm sure will turn out just fine. Greetings from Belgium!

The Silver Nova
04-06-2015, 02:14 AM
Why not do away with the heartbeat sensor and change to a thermal device instead?
Should also include your own teammates heartbeats in it as well.

SQD.YoloBagins
04-06-2015, 09:26 PM
Why not do away with the heartbeat sensor and change to a thermal device instead?
Should also include your own teammates heartbeats in it as well.

Because the heartbeat sensor is a classic item and classic part of the rainbow 6 series since the beginning and being an old-school rainbow 6 players myself, I am glad this is in the game. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be tweaked of course and needs to be done right.

Now for those who have not played the original rainbow 6/rogue spear/raven shield games, allow me to explain the different kinds of HBS's we've seen.

R6 & Rogue spear = holding a 'gun like' sensor in your hand which you had to point in the direction you want to scan. If detected, your enemy will appear on the mini-map and (correct me if i'm wrong) will appear on the mini-map for your teammates as well!

Raven Shield = Holding binoculars with 2 hands (gun is put away) and the enemies heart-beat will ping when detected visually (almost identical as displayed here). However, there was no distance indicator when viewing through the HBS binoculars and did not tell your teammates the enemies location either.

I personally found the raven shield heartbeat sensor to be my favorite because even when the enemies heartbeat was detected, it was still hard to gauge exactly where the enemy was because you couldn't tell if the enemy was 1 floor above you, 2 floors above you, 1 room away or 2 rooms away. You also didn't know WHOSE heartbeat they were. They could of been the heartbeat of your teammate or hostage.

This is why I am ok with the 15m distance (although I would also be ok with a 10m distance too) because even if your HB is detected, it still makes it difficult for the defender to properly gauge where exactly the enemy is.This is also why I think it's important to eliminate the 'teammates ghost outlines through the walls' graphic (or leave it for the non-hardcore mode, if there is/will be one). The "less is more" philosophy is what makes these kinds of games great. The 'unknown' factor makes it exciting. "Then why not get rid of HBS entirely"? It should remain in the game because of its traditional roots in rainbow 6 but also because you're sacrificing something in order to gain an advantage elsewhere. You're putting away your gun and being defenseless in order to detect where the enemies are.

My only feedback as of right now would be to eliminate the 'distance' number displayed next to the heart beat.

More to come later and ty for the hard work!

Dokrane
04-06-2015, 10:33 PM
the raven shield heartbeat sensor to be my favorite because even when the enemies heartbeat was detected, it was still hard to gauge exactly where the enemy was because you couldn't tell if the enemy was

With full understanding this device is still under development and undergoing iterations to find its place - it's pretty obvious that the heartbeat sensor is immediately perceived as a rather overpowered device and throws the balance off a bit.

I have to agree with Choch_Master that the Raven Shield heart-beat binoculars style would be a better implementation. Having the ability to see a "ping" with no indication of distance, and having a rather lengthy delay between updates is, at least to me, imperative. This places a risk/reward that the user has to take into consideration in the middle of the battle. In the recent Alpha stream we saw their actual hearts outlined in red, and you can gauge distance based on the size - which would be easily exploitable in close quarters combat.

I would even say having a few seconds between "ping" intervals would be good to decrease dependence and exploitation?

To summarize what I would think key features for the sensor to be:
- Slow to equip and holster, because of 2 hand usage, which in turn would increase risk to use
- Cannot detect ANY heart beat further than 10m (or whatever range)
- No distance indication
- "Ripple" ping (not actual heart outline)
- Heart beat update has a lengthy delay between pings
- No map update for the team, enforcing tactical communication

Keep up the good work devs! Look forward to your input on this.

VA.Whisper
04-07-2015, 05:24 AM
Short and sweet -

I like the ping idea without distance measurement.

One recommendation would be to add an audio cue such as a beep when someone is detected.
These audio cues could occur more frequently the closer the enemy is.

Also, the enemy should be able to hear the audio cue if they are within a close range to the HBS (5m or so?) to add more risk/reward to using the HBS.

INI RAGE IYI
04-08-2015, 02:08 PM
You know how you can make this better since its obviously not going to get removed. Remove the visual part of it and have it vibrate instead if you point it at a wall in which an enemy in directly behind it...that will add tension to holdin the sensor while your controller vibrate depending on how close the enemy is the more it vibrates.n remove the op quality of actually seen a dot that tells you exactly where they are. While adding ta tactics back into using it because you would only get a sense of direction.

Cortexian
04-08-2015, 05:37 PM
I use a keyboard and mouse, and last time I checked, neither of them vibrate.

So I guess that suggestion is out since it doesn't work on all platforms...

Bucko__
04-08-2015, 10:44 PM
I'm glad to see the heartbeat sensor - keep it! I think the distance works well for the maps in the closed alpha. It is possible on some maps the distance (longer or shorter) may need to be tweaked in order to achieve the right balance of gameplay. As a possible alternative to distance tweaking, "interference" could be introduced as a factor based on items in the environment (i.e. a convenient placement of a microwave oven or home entertainment system, for example).

hackerm
04-10-2015, 01:07 PM
As I said on the subreddit, that's a good start... However if Siege uses realistic measurements the 15m radius (49.2 ft) is still much to large. A typical semi-fancy suburban two-story home like the one featured on the House map likely has 8-10 ft celings. I'm leaning closer to 10 ft celings myself without actually sitting down and carefulyl comparing everything.

With a 49 ft radius we can sit in the basement or top-floor of the building and see both floors above/below us, outwards by 3-4 rooms and see people coming from a long ways off.

IMO, to promote slower and more methodical gameplay, you need to lower the radius to 8-10 m (26 - 32 ft). That would encourage people to scan "room by room" instead of camping in one spot and giving omnipotent intel to your team.

I may eat my words after getting some more experience in the Closed Alpha, but I feel like my opinoin on this particular fact likely won't change much. We'll see after I get a chance to go hands on for an extended duration!

I agree with you. 10 m should be good.

Cadillac_Joe
04-11-2015, 05:05 AM
why not have the heart beat sensor show people in red instead of a little heart lol

Caltane
04-11-2015, 05:45 AM
I'm glad this has been altered, I understand its effect but yeah it was way overpowered. I've been playing for a few days now and haven't had a problem being detected once. Good stuff, keep it up!

nathanr1991
04-11-2015, 06:02 PM
I know its a working progress, but when you see someone though Heatbeast Senor will other team members be able to see it too?

and could it be added to Rainbow 6 Equipment too.

Nutses
04-11-2015, 10:57 PM
I'm all in for the heartbeat sensor as it gives the game more nostalgia :)

Important is to make sure the heartbeat sensor doesn't give exact information. Only an indication.
As mentioned before, let the time between the beats be long enough...

Maneuver56k
04-11-2015, 11:25 PM
I want to say first, that I am really enjoying the alpha and thanks a lot for letting me participate, and here comes the but....... But I think the heartbeat sensor is still too powerful. I have seen it win many clutch 1v1 rounds because one player has the ability to see through the wall and then shoot through it, giving the other player no chance at all. That is never going to feel anything but cheap and frustrating for the receiving player. If you couldn't shoot through walls, I can see it possibly being balanced because at least the two players have to face off. However as they don't its just unbalanced and I am not sure if you could make it so given the fact both players have to move towards the objective (hostage in this case). I can't imagine competitive leagues would ever allow the use of what is essentially a close range wall hack. It is simply game breaking in clutch situations. Sorry for the ramble but I really like the game and would like to see it succeed

RentedZone
04-12-2015, 02:22 PM
The heartbeat sensor is a tool that's been a part of the Rainbow Six universe since the book and the first game were published. This is why it is one of the unique gadgets we have chosen to implement in Rainbow Six Siege, but we need to make sure it's done right.

We hear you that in the version you saw during the livestream and press coverage, the heartbeat sensor was overpowered, and we agree with you. The final Closed Alpha version will therefore be updated from the version you were presented, and we've already made a tweak to the gadget that will reduce its detection range from 20m. to 15m. The display of the heart was broken and was shown at all distances (infinite) and is now capped at 15m. We have also altered its visual feedback. I will be adding a picture of it here as soon as possible (feel free to come back this afternoon or tomorrow!)

We'll be awaiting your feedback during the Closed Alpha regarding this balance, as well as our player-behavior tracking results before doing additional alterations to the heartbeat sensor.

Thank you all for the conversation and feedback you've given on the Closed Alpha coverage thus far. We are carefully reviewing all threads and feedback. We know there are some other important topics that you would like us to address, and we'll be paying extra attention to these in the Closed Alpha as well.

Edit : Adding the pictures of the visual update made on heartbeat sensor. There will be a red ripple effect.

Out of range :
http://i.imgur.com/38tbyCi.png

In range (within 15m.) - note that the ! before the 7M. will not be present in our future version. This is not a final release:
http://i.imgur.com/4QRm9Lv.png

Note that this is still a work-in-progress and we are still iterating on it.This is just an update of it's current state for you!


I've never tried any of the RS games till now, and I see why some people might not like the Heartbeat sensor as it is in it's current state. And ye I know, they're trying very hard to balance it and I do agree with someones comment stating that "8-10" m range would be a better range for it. I was just thinking that instead of having a visual indicator of the player, maybe using sound? By this I mean that you'd hear a heartbeat and the louder it is the closer the player is to you. I don't know if this is even possible, I'm not a game developer but anyways, I was just sharing some ideas! Good work on this game, can't wait for further updates etc!

heatdeath51
04-12-2015, 06:59 PM
I've never tried any of the RS games till now, and I see why some people might not like the Heartbeat sensor as it is in it's current state. And ye I know, they're trying very hard to balance it and I do agree with someones comment stating that "8-10" m range would be a better range for it. I was just thinking that instead of having a visual indicator of the player, maybe using sound? By this I mean that you'd hear a heartbeat and the louder it is the closer the player is to you. I don't know if this is even possible, I'm not a game developer but anyways, I was just sharing some ideas! Good work on this game, can't wait for further updates etc!

I like this idea a whole lot better. The fact that this gadget allows one to see an opponent's exact location in real-time and at the range it does is incredibly overpowered. In my Alpha play time I already have been killed far too many times by someone using this gadget and then immediately switching to their primary and blasting me through a wall. By making this gadget only give you an indication to players' locations in perhaps a 90 degree cone in front of them I believe players would be much happier, especially the more competitive players.

I didn't think this gadget was going to be as big of a frustration as it currently is. I thought, "Eh, people won't use that as much with all the other operators and gadgets the game has to offer, currently." That was a mistake. Haha! 4 out of 5 games I have played I will notice someone using that class. As it stands, the heartbeat sensor is incredibly overpowered and needs to see a reduction in its power. If there is a hardcore mode that removes this gadget and hitmarkers, sign me up.

USNS.Ops
04-13-2015, 10:35 PM
You said it was supposed to be 20 meters, but it was broken and went to infinity. So NOW you go from "infinity" to 15 meters. I think that is TO CLOSE! IF they are rushing you will not have time to deploy it, view it, tell you team mates, exit view and get your weapon before they are on top of you and KILL you. Therefore, that kind of makes the Heartbeat Monitor useless. I will never use it.

serrath
04-14-2015, 08:02 AM
Heartbeat Monitor: Only Audio Feedback
Change the Heartbeat monitor to beep for each heartbeat detected in a cone subtending pi/2 steradians or so of solid angle ahead of the user. Beep faster or higher-pitched for closer heartbeats. It's far less precise than visual confirmation, but enough to blindly fire through walls or set of booby traps effectively. This would severely hamper its usefulness as a flanking tool; removing the visual feedback is essential. If the beeping is audible to all players instead of just Pulse, it limits its use at close-range, since it reveals the player to the enemy, but it makes it easier to communicate enemy positions to your team.

Edit:
It looks like Tom Clancy got some grief for the heartbeat monitor, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_locator#Media_exposure_and_controversy

TheChinBurglar
04-14-2015, 02:30 PM
Limiting the range,definitely helps early in a round where you still have all of your team mates and detecting everyone at once is fairly uncommon. However when you're down to the last man or two the heartbeat sensor is still extremely strong. You could potentially limit its effectiveness and increase the skill required to use it by adding a battery (limited amount of time you can actively use the sensor). This way longer games won't allow people to become dependent on the device to hide out and get cheap kills.

I do hope the heartbeat sensor stays in the game. It gives the defenders (at least in the hostage rescue game mode) a chance to react to incoming attackers instead of simply sitting and waiting for attackers to come to them.

PH.Garensterz
04-15-2015, 04:09 AM
Just remove the damn thing ubisoft, sorry for being inappropriate there but this feature takes out the importance of CQB or breaching purpose. No matter how you guys change the distance detection on that crap the game will still be unbalanced, especially you included bullet penetration in all areas so expect a very unbalanced game style. What's the point on giving us an alpha game to test it out when you keep on defending your points on useless features such as this? Just remove it. It doesn't add anything except nostalgic purposes on some R6 veterans (which is why it's unnecessary). Go seek for game balance, improvements and authenticity. Not nostalgia.

If HBS is really what the R6 veterans wanted, then I'm disappointed. I know i dont have the right to voice this out since i am not actually a fan of R6, but I'm a fan of a tactical shooter and ubisoft advertised way back that this will be as well. But I aint finding it that way. Not even seen a slightest tactical breaching in all of the game footage, except for the freaking scripted demo.

xcopps
04-15-2015, 05:22 PM
you should just scrap the heartbeat nonesense and just add motion sensors. i can already see it being abused in competitive play if people have a party over the people who are just solo queuing.

just saying

OUT FOX EM
04-16-2015, 02:25 PM
Ubisoft has made it clear that the heartbeat sensor is staying in no matter what. Ok, fine. Just be sure to give us a host option to disable this (and other equipment) when needed.

This will be especially crucial for anyone that plays clan matches. Ubisoft has always been good about giving the host the ability to disable anything they want, so don't stop now!

yoavrebibo
04-16-2015, 05:36 PM
in real life swat always are more powerful than terrorist.to kill bin laden America sent at least 2 platoons to kill him. i can understand 5 x 5 . But,if developers want to make an authentic game.it should give much more power to the attackers.Examples.more attackers or more tickets life to the attackers e.g 2 lives for each attackers re spawning in the base.add more time,better weapons and gadgets etc.....besides great job UBI

serrath
04-16-2015, 10:03 PM
@yoavrebibo - Pretty sure they want to make a tactical game, not a simulation.

yoavrebibo
04-16-2015, 11:43 PM
@yoavrebibo - Pretty sure they want to make a tactical game, not a simulation.

simulation is tactical. and i would love to play a simulation based on real events.
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serrath
04-17-2015, 03:12 AM
simulation is tactical. and i would love to play a simulation based on real events.
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Simulation can be tactical, usually encourages careful decision-making by increasing the negative consequences for mistakes. However, it's not synonymous with tactical. When Rainbow Six basically invented the tactical shooter subgenre, it was very simulation-like compared with other games. When people ripped off (or were inspired by) Rainbow Six to make other tactical shooters, that was one of the elements that stuck with it. It's not a requirement for a tactical shooter though, and simulation aspects can detract from tactical play.

If you want a true-to-life simulation, only players with fewer than five games under their belts should be allowed to play OpFor, and everyone who's got significant combat experience should be Rainbow Six. Granted, that's an extreme case, but you get the gist.

(That said, I'd definitely favor slower-paced, somewhat more realistic gameplay if it doesn't sacrifice the tactical charm of this iteration.)

Jojono1234
05-21-2015, 07:56 AM
Since only the defenders have the heartbeat sensor you should drop the range on it to maybe 5-6 meters. Another idea is you could do something like the thermal goggles from the splinter cell series. Which would you prefer?

RedKnight5
05-21-2015, 02:54 PM
Since only the defenders have the heartbeat sensor you should drop the range on it to maybe 5-6 meters. Another idea is you could do something like the thermal goggles from the splinter cell series. Which would you prefer?

Actually... neither.

Instead... use Proximity Chat. This talk method was used in the old Sony SOCOM games of the past. You can hear the conversations of anyone within your "range of hearing" and talk to them without using your radio. This includes your Teammates... and also the bad guys through doors, thin walls and down hallways. And you must "whisper" to your Teammates using Proximity Chat, if you think the bad guys could be close enough to hear you talking. Your "Range of Hearing" for using Proximity Talk with your Teammates could be... within a small room or within 15 to 20 feet from you. As you move further away from your Teammates... your Proximity Chat decreases. More distance than 15 to 20 feet... and "Push to Talk" radio communications would be necessary again.

This is also the best method to converse and give orders to your Teammates, that are standing close enough to hear you talk, without having to use "Push to Talk" on your radio comms. Real Life Example: If you are standing 5 feet away from your Teammate... you don't use your radio to talk to him.

The old SOCOM games used teamwork methods 10 years ago... that today's games can't match, or today's game developers didn't take the time to even think of.

I am in support of the concept of the "Push to Talk" radio communications (which UbiSoft just published, that this will be used in RB6 Siege). I believe that it does add a sense of realism and stealth, and it keeps the radio communications from being chaotic with overloaded radio talk. Also the one thing that Socom Confrontation did right, was the fact that they had "Proximity Chat". I can't stress enough, how immersive this feature was! The only downfall is, that if you have a family and they are in the same room while you are playing Siege, or if you like to play music in the background, then everyone can hear it over the comm within your Proximity. There has to be a way to distinguish between your voice and background noise. Most of today's headphones have "noise suppression" control built in for this purpose.

XcLPris
06-02-2015, 01:14 PM
I'm so disappointed to see a HBS, hitmarkers and a DBNO feature in this game. I played Rainbow Six 3 and Black Arrow on the Xbox and no Rainbow Six has ever been as good as those. They kept it simple and well balanced. You had to rely on communication and your own wits. That's all. No sensors that could see through walls. You couldn't just spam bullets through a wall. You didn't get a second chance and it was great. The destruction features in this game are amazing, you just shouldn't have hitmarkers to go with it. Also you shouldn't have the ability to communicate with players still alive when you are dead.

Ubi_Jax
06-02-2015, 02:40 PM
I'm so disappointed to see a HBS, hitmarkers and a DBNO feature in this game. I played Rainbow Six 3 and Black Arrow on the Xbox and no Rainbow Six has ever been as good as those. They kept it simple and well balanced. You had to rely on communication and your own wits. That's all. No sensors that could see through walls. You couldn't just spam bullets through a wall. You didn't get a second chance and it was great. The destruction features in this game are amazing, you just shouldn't have hitmarkers to go with it. Also you shouldn't have the ability to communicate with players still alive when you are dead.

Hey XcLPris.

All of the features you've commented on above have been worked on and we've discussed at length during our Closed Alpha Feedback blog post, found HERE (http://rainbow6.ubi.com/siege/en-GB/news/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-202297-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32).

A few highlights;




HIT MARKERS

• Removed except for friendly fire and kill confirmation

DBNO

• Now limited to 2 potential occurrences per operator before dying outright. Continuing to investigate.

HEARTBEAT SENSOR

• Range reduced from 15m to 10m detection radius.



As you can see, we're aware of our players feedback and we're continuing to work on adjusting different aspects of the game. We really appreciate your feedback however, so please continue to give us your thoughts and how you believe we can improve the game further.

Thanks.

RedKnight5
06-02-2015, 03:24 PM
I http://www.gifmania.co.uk/Web-Design-Animated-Gifs/Animated-Signs-Websites/Vote-Signs/Pencil-Vote-63341.gif for Ubi_Jax to assume control and run UbiSoft, for the benefit of the next Rainbow6 game and it's long time players.

Jax and the other Forum mods here, seem to understand and listen to our opinions and suggestions on Siege. Over time,(hopefully not to long)... we might just get the next new Rainbow6 game we've been waiting for for so long!!

So Jax and his buddies... should just run the company!! http://www.01gifs.com/smileys/respect/2.gif

I'm sending an e-mail about this to the CEO of UbiSoft right now!!!

tomohawx
09-25-2015, 02:11 PM
A heart beat sensor has no place in a tactical game like siege! Stop trying to address the communities concerns through nerfs and just remove it completely!

SouCo-
09-25-2015, 02:21 PM
How does something that provides tactical support and awareness not belong in a tactical game?

HBS belongs in R6. Some tweaks needed? Sure, but nothing too drastic. Find a fair range and force a cooldown time, okay all fixed.