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wvstolzing
03-23-2015, 10:40 PM
I fired up ACR today, after a very long pause -- and this time I decided to listen to the original sounds, rather than an audiobook or a podcast or something, while hopping on rooftops.

It turns out that the street noises are quite a bit more diverse than I remembered. So I thought I'd translate some of it for you guys (not too many Turkish speakers here, I imagine.)

A couple of these are really strange -- really un-idiomatic; not google-translate-bad, but pretty silly nonetheless; others are funny.

Kardes, yune ihtiyacim var; pazara bir koylu gondersene.
Friend (brother, lit.), I need some wool; could you send a villager to the marketplace?

Ner'den buldun bunu?
Where did you get (find, lit.) this?

Amma da mayistik haa.
I got real drowsy, huh.

Armaganlari siraya koyun; kirilacak olanlari yukariya koy!
Put the gifts in order! Place the fragile ones on top!

Hic merak etmeyin, bunlarin hepsi taze.
Don't you worry, this is all fresh.

Topla bakayim sunlari!
Tidy up! (Put these things in order, lit.)

Cok yoruldum bugun.
I got so tired today.

Ayaklarima kara sular indi.
My feet are so tired. (Black waters have descended to my feet, lit.)

Hadi bakalim, hadi bakalim!
Come on, come on!

... versen yeter abla.
... would be enough (... if you gave [this much], it would be enough, sister.)

Bekletme kizim musteriyi.
Don't keep the customers waiting.

Evet hanim, hepsi satilik bunlarin.
Yes ma'm, this is all for sale.

(A somewhat tipsy fellow) Getir bakalim sunlardan on tane daha!
Bring us ten more of those!

(Another slightly drunken man) Ya n'olacak ayda yilda bir defa
No worries, we only do it once a year ... or a month

(When you bump into someone -- this one's *extremely* rare) Essogluessek!
Son of a donkey!

Ne zamandir gorusemiyorduk.
Long time no see.

Isi aceleye getirme!
Don't rush it!

Aman ya, birseyi de beceremiyorsun!
You incompetent! (You can't do a thing, lit.)

Sonuncusu; ardindan eve gidebiliriz.
This one's the last; then we can go home.

Bu is iki esege ihtiyacim var. Siz ikiniz, gelin buraya!
I need two donkeys for this job. You two, come here!

Gerizekalilar!
r*tards!

Kizlar da guzelmis burada haa.
The girls here are really pretty, eh?

Tezgahin onunu kapama kardesim.
Move along, you're blocking the stalls.

Aksama kadar dukkanda otur sen de
*You* sit and wait all day inside the shop.

Isler kotu, butun gun kapinin onunde muhabbet ediyoruz biz de
The business is bad; so we're wasting our time with smalltalk here.


[In Templar-controlled areas, before you liberate them:]

(A man's voice) Tanrim, kizimi neden oksuz biraktin?
My god, why did you leave my daughter an orphan?

Mahvoldum ben; bundan sonra asla toparlanamayacagim.
I'm done for ... I'll never get back on my feet.

Derdimi kime anlatayim? Kimse anlamiyor ki derdimi!
Who can I talk to (about my pain, troubles, lit.); no one understands my troubles!


A few random reflections:

- Ezio collects books in ACR, rather than paintings; and there are no 'wanted' signs for him on the streets. That's a pretty nice touch, actually: Islam inherits the Jewish stricture on making depictions, or 'replica's of living things, hence there was little 'representational' art back then, and not much of a tradition of *painting*, until late in the 19th C. Visual art took the route of abstract/'geometrical' ornamentation, calligraphy, and despite the religious stricture, 'miniature'-painting.

- There are Assassin insignia on some (most? all?) minarets, instead of the regular crescent. That's pretty interesting too -- I wonder whether that's an intentional send-off to the real-life crackpot theory that all monuments in the western world were built by freemasons -- established way back when Solomon built the first temple in Jerusalem -- and that they're all chock-full of mysterious codes. That sort of casts a new light on the Assassin tombs in AC2 as well -- either Domenico Auditore built hidden tombs inside public buildings (some of which didn't even exist when he lived), or the very architects and builders of those monuments were all Assassins, who placed all manner of cryptic notes (and platforming puzzles) inside their works, Ó la 'freemasons'.

- Too many civilians inside the Topkapi Palace -- dancers, street sellers, people promenading. The parts that were reproduced in the game were strictly for governmental business, so they'd be strictly out of bounds to anyone but the highest office-holders. The emperor's personal residence was inside a complex of adjacent buildings (those weren't rendered in-game). Along the coast, near the palace or connected to it, were smaller villas; public events, etc., would take place *there*. So the festival that Ezio infiltrates as a minstrel would also take place in one of those villas, not inside the palace.

- Too many damn palm trees. I know, it fits the 'middle eastern look'; but this just isn't the indigenous climate for it.

- The music isn't my absolute favorite in the series, but at times it really strikes the right *tone*, which I believe the historical portions of the game require -- it's a mourning, lamenting tone, that almost sounds like a dirge. ACU's entirely sporadic 'ambient music' also has that character, in some places. I believe Jesper Kyd said in an interview about the music in AC2, that he wanted it to have a 'sad' character, because Ezio's story is a sad one, etc. etc. -- though I think 'sad' music goes well with the historical portions *in general*, because, well, the history of mankind is a really 'sad' one. Whenever I try to think about the people of a certain era, I can't help but lament for the fact that they were clueless of the calamities that awaited them, and innocent with respect to the awful consequences of their well-intended actions.

- *Byzantine* strongholds in the middle of the city, only a few decades after the fall of the Byzantines? Yes, I'm aware that they're bringing in the last surviving member of the Komnenoi dynasty, the pretender to the Byzantine throne, how he works with/manipulates dissenters, etc., and all of that is interesting, and make sense from a historical point of view, somewhat. Nevertheless, this game has some of the silliest evil-byzantine-baddies that I've seen outside of stupid Turkish historical-adventure B-movies ('historical'-my rear end) from the 70s. It's pretty embarrassing. If any Greek players were offended by this game, I can totally see why.

- Heralds warn the public of 'an Assassin' (common in Ezio games, I know); and allies call you, shouting 'Assassin! Assassin! I'm here', etc., in public. Talk about a 'secret organization'. :rolleyes:

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 10:43 PM
That┤s certainly interesting to read, thanks!

If you ever need any info about pedestrian dialogues of AC II/ACB and AC IV in italian and spanish let me know haha.

Farlander1991
03-23-2015, 10:47 PM
Nice read :)


AC IV in italian and spanish let me know haha

Except Dan Jeannotte's gibberish spanish, I presume? :p

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 10:56 PM
Nice read :)



Except Dan Jeannotte's gibberish spanish, I presume? :p

Haha, bad punctuation of mine. By the way, prostitutes┤s dialogue in AC IV is way raunchier than before haha.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 10:58 PM
Thanks for this post. It was most informative.


Nevertheless, this game has some of the silliest evil-byzantine-baddies that I've seen outside of stupid Turkish historical-adventure B-movies ('historical'-my rear end) from the 70s. It's pretty embarrassing. If any Greek players were offended by this game, I can totally see why.

Well the Byzantines in the game aren't the real ones, they are Templars disguised as them and the leader is an Ottoman prince. Is that typical of Turkish B-Movies?

Farlander1991
03-23-2015, 10:59 PM
Haha, bad punctuation of mine. By the way, prostitutes┤s dialogue in AC IV is way raunchier than before haha.

Oh, no, I wasn't meaning punctuation, it's understandable, I meant that Dan Jeannotte was one of the people put for additional spanish voices and he was the only one who didn't know spanish so he would just talk gibberish. It would be interesting to know if it at least partially makes sense :p :D

wvstolzing
03-23-2015, 11:07 PM
Thanks for this post. It was most informative.



Well the Byzantines in the game aren't the real ones, they are Templars disguised as them and the leader is an Ottoman prince. Is that typical of Turkish B-Movies?

Wasn't the leader a Komnenos? I'm really skipping on the details -- it's been a while since I did a complete playthrough.

The Turkish B-movies are just demented. Great fun after a bottle of vodka, though a bit dangerous too, since you could *literally* split your sides laughing, and die. In proper cultural context they're the most embarrassing things ever; and don't even get me started on official Turkish 'policy' with respect to so-called 'minorities'. There are less than 1000 (one thousand) indigenous Greeks left in Istanbul. There's a pretty bitter reason for that.

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 11:07 PM
Oh, no, I wasn't meaning punctuation, it's understandable, I meant that Dan Jeannotte was one of the people put for additional spanish voices and he was the only one who didn't know spanish so he would just talk gibberish. It would be interesting to know if it at least partially makes sense :p :D

I didn┤t know that he was in AC IV! In fact voices there seemed like native speakers from Spain: guards, prostitutes and other NPC┤s. If you want to listen to BAD spanish, that would be this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xw1iMQh030

3:06

That woman sounds like any given english native speaker trying to speak in spanish without any practice :D :D :D :D

wvstolzing
03-23-2015, 11:10 PM
That┤s certainly interesting to read, thanks!

If you ever need any info about pedestrian dialogues of AC II/ACB and AC IV in italian and spanish let me know haha.

I'd definitely be interested. :) I can decipher the Italian a little bit; but the Spanish is completely opaque to me.

Farlander1991
03-23-2015, 11:12 PM
I didn┤t know that he was in AC IV! In fact voices there seemed like native speakers from Spain: guards, prostitutes and other NPC┤s. If you want to listen to BAD spanish, that would be this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xw1iMQh030

3:06

That woman sounds like any given english native speaker trying to speak in spanish without any practice :D :D :D :D

That sounds like Japanese to me a bit, lol.

Regarding Jeannotte: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qwLGihv-zY , 3:00 to 4:00

Assassin_M
03-23-2015, 11:17 PM
Dang, so much of Turkish was integrated into the Egyptian dialect of Arabic. Many thanks for the information.

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 11:25 PM
I found out in 2010 that NPC┤s of Damascus and Jerusalem were speaking turkish instead of Arab......

wvstolzing
03-23-2015, 11:48 PM
I found out in 2010 that NPC┤s of Damascus and Jerusalem were speaking turkish instead of Arab......

In Damascus only, I think; though I need to check.

When I first played AC1, I thought that was a mistake -- though I later checked, and found to my embarrassment that Damascus at the time was under the rule of Rum Seljuks. So there's nothing inaccurate about Turkish military there. Turkish speakers were introduced into the region from the north-east relatively recently by then anyhow (later 8th C. onwards), and as mercenaries; that was the only 'trade' (?!) they had anyhow, being nomadic, tribal societies. They rose in military ranks, and started seizing governmental power -- so typical of Turkish military behavior in the next millenium :rolleyes:

More on-topic though -- the Turkish in AC1 is pretty un-idiomatic. The worst offender to my ear is --

Kime boyun egmek istiyorsun ha?
Whom do you want to yield to? (bend your neck to, lit.)

Hardly an idiomatic response to someone you're chasing on a rooftop.

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 11:53 PM
In Damascus only, I think; though I need to check.

When I first played AC1, I thought that was a mistake -- though I later checked, and found to my embarrassment that Damascus at the time was under the rule of Rum Seljuks. So there's nothing inaccurate about Turkish military there. Turkish speakers were introduced into the region from the north-east relatively recently by then anyhow (later 8th C. onwards), and as mercenaries; that was the only 'trade' (?!) they had anyhow, being nomadic, tribal societies. They rose in military ranks, and started seizing governmental power -- so typical of Turkish military behavior in the next millenium :rolleyes:


Really???? I thought the Ayyubid ruled Damascus back then.

SixKeys
03-23-2015, 11:54 PM
This is really cool, thanks for posting. :) I always wondered what the NPCs were saying in the Ezio games (the ones that don't speak English, obviously).

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 11:55 PM
This is really cool, thanks for posting. :) I always wondered what the NPCs were saying in the Ezio games (the ones that don't speak English, obviously).


Feel free to ask about the italian ones haha.

wvstolzing
03-23-2015, 11:56 PM
Really???? I thought the Ayyubid ruled Damascus back then.

I need to look up an encyclopedia on this -- admittedly no expert -- but today's Syrian territory was apparently divided between the two. A prominent Rum Seljuk grand vezier was even 'assassinated' by a *real* Assassin.

SixKeys
03-23-2015, 11:59 PM
If you can think of any Italian NPC talk off the top of your head, I'd love to hear any of them.

On the subject of languages, I enjoyed the portrayal of German in AC1. They use the polite form of "you" (Sie" instead of "du") which would have been accurate for the time period. So even when they're yelling things like "Die, heathen!" to Alta´r, they do it politely. ;) A German friend of mine said the actors were clearly not native speakers, but that they did a decent job.

ze_topazio
03-24-2015, 12:33 AM
I can understand the Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and French npcs, the wonders of speaking a romance language, you speak one, you can more or less understand them all.

Megas_Doux
03-24-2015, 12:33 AM
I can understand the Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and French npcs, the wonders of speaking a romance language, you speak one, you can more or less understand them all.

Indeed!

Megas_Doux
03-24-2015, 12:38 AM
If you can think of any Italian NPC talk off the top of your head, I'd love to hear any of them.



I free roam with the game set in Italian, however I remember these ones from the original version:

If you kill a guard, steal from a dead body or a fight rages on, you could hear the NPC┤s saying this stuff:

"oh mio dio!!!!!" : Oh my god!!!!
"Vergogna!!!!!" Shame on you!!!!!

During chases or fights, guards usually say the likes of:

eccolo!!!!! = here it is!!!!
figlio di puttana!!!! Son of b........
Fatti sotto! bring it on! That one is said by Ezio, though.
Avanti!!!!! = Forward!!!!!!
Cazzo = Male reproductive organ, but said on a vulgar manner of being angry.

Vendors say stuff like:

Questi prosciutti, molto magnifico!!!!! = magnificent -more like delicious- hams!!!!!!

SixKeys
03-24-2015, 12:53 AM
I free roam with the game set in Italian, however I remember these ones from the original version:

If you kill a guard, steal from a dead body or a fight rages on, you could hear the NPC┤s saying this stuff:

"oh mio dio!!!!!" : Oh my god!!!!
"Vergogna!!!!!" Shame on you!!!!!

During chases or fights, guards usually say the likes of:

eccolo!!!!! = here it is!!!!
figlio di puttana!!!! Son of b........
Fatti sotto! bring it on! That one is said by Ezio, though.
Avanti!!!!! = Forward!!!!!!
Cazzo = Male reproductive organ, but said on a vulgar manner of being angry.

Vendors say stuff like:

Questi prosciutti, molto magnifico!!!!! = magnificent -more like delicious- hams!!!!!!

Thanks, although most of those I already knew as they're often translated in the subtitles. I was more hoping for some discussions you hear in the blend groups, like when you see a husband and wife arguing loudly with each other and stuff like that.

Megas_Doux
03-24-2015, 12:54 AM
Thanks, although most of those I already knew as they're often translated in the subtitles. I was more hoping for some discussions you hear in the blend groups, like when you see a husband and wife arguing loudly with each other and stuff like that.

Oh I forgot those! When I replay the game, I┤ll put them here.

ze_topazio
03-24-2015, 01:09 AM
In AC4 there's this two Portuguese soldiers talking about Torres, they call him "that Castilian", I thought it was a nice touch since the Portuguese kept using the name Castile for Spain way in to the XIX century, even today some really old-fashioned people still use that name, like our pretender to the throne.

wvstolzing
03-24-2015, 01:09 AM
I remember

'Carne, carne fresca di giornata' (not sure about the spelling, though; so a stupid mistake is probably lurking in there.)

'Fresh daily meat' -- a street seller says.

One thing that I do miss in ACR is noisy street sellers.

Assassin_M
03-24-2015, 01:45 AM
I remember

'Carne, carne fresca di giornata' (not sure about the spelling, though; so a stupid mistake is probably lurking in there.)

'Fresh daily meat' -- a street seller says.

One thing that I do miss in ACR is noisy street sellers.
It's still there but unfortunately you have to be close to the stall/stand/shop for them to start calling.

wvstolzing
03-24-2015, 07:30 PM
A couple of things I forgot to mention earlier --

Ubisoft did take into account the *cosmopolitan* nature of the city, to *some* extent, in the names of the Assassin recruits -- it's understandable that the voice work for the common folk is limited to Turkish, out of budget considerations, etc. In reality, though, it's a pretty recent phenomenon that native Turkish speakers constitute the overwhelming majority of the population. After the capture of the city (1453), the Ottomans planted a Turkish-speaking population inside the city; I don't have any 'numbers', but considering that as late as the 19th C., Christian peoples constituted about a quarter of the total population of the empire, by 1511, when the game takes place, Turkish speakers wouldn't have become a majority, I don't think.

So a more accurate portrayal would have to include a *lot* of Greek, as well as Armenian, and the dialect of Spanish that Sephardic Jews brought with them after their expulsion from Spain in 1492.

Not to mention, that the district around the Galata Tower was a Genoese trade 'colony', so there'd be plenty of Italian speakers there. I don't think there was any commentary in the game with respect to the fact that the Tower is, in fact, an Italian work. Aside from Duccio, Sophia was the only Italian Ezio ever met in the city.

As to the name of the city, at least the German version has the street heralds refer to it as 'Konstantiniyye', which I believe is accurate for the period.
The name 'Istanbul' is likely derived from the Greek idiom that's roughly the equivalent of 'I'm going downtown', the dative case of town ('Stin Poli') got stuck as a nickname for the city long before the Turkish conquest. Interestingly enough, it also sounds a bit like an abbreviation of conSTANtinoPLE.

VestigialLlama4
03-24-2015, 09:06 PM
So a more accurate portrayal would have to include a *lot* of Greek, as well as Armenian, and the dialect of Spanish that Sephardic Jews brought with them after their expulsion from Spain in 1492.

You know, one thing that is surprising about the games set in Europe is that it doesn't address the main Elephant in the Room of the medieval era: anti-semitism. Under the reign of Richard the Lionheart in AC1, Jews were expelled form England (granted its not covered geographically during the Crusades) and wouldn't be allowed back in until Oliver Cromwell brought them back. The Renaissance era is filled with anti-semitism of course.

One of the few redeeming good qualites of Pope Alexander VI, Rodrigo Borgia was that he was exceptionally tolerant in religious matters and allowed Jews expelled from Spain and Portugal to settle in the Jewish Quarter in Rome, gave them civil rights and no-strings-attached (i.e. no conversions). The Jewish Quarter totally existed (it goes back to the Roman Era) and is missing from the game. Likewise the French Revolution was the first time a European nation gave Jews full civil rights but it isn't addressed in UNITY either (mostly because the ones who were campaigning for it, Robespierre and Co. are presented as bad guys). The fact is we don't see any Jews at all in these games even if they were there at the time period and the characters we see in the game did deal with them. At most there are background mentions scattered here and there, and we see a synagogue in AC1 (a nice wooden structure in Jerusalem's Middle District with a Star of David) but there aren't Jewish characters or NPCs even if it makes sense for Assassins (an organization sympathetic to minorities nominally) to deal with them.

ChiberianWinter
03-25-2015, 01:31 AM
I've heard Greek being spoken in certain districts of the city in AC:R as well. As a Greek, the way the city was portrayed during this time period wasn't very flattering to my Byzantine ancestors... Also, the fact that you couldn't tell the Greeks from the Turks apart in this game was also, interesting. I understand that this game wasn't intended to be a major console release and all that, but the game really fails to capture the multi-ethnic flavor of Constantinople during this time period. I think it would have made for a better story if the protag was a Greek who was coming to terms with the Ottomans sacking his city and adjusting to being ruled by these foreigners. idk. i'm no profressional writer...

PS They should make a game in ancient Greece, preferably during the time of Alexander the Great ;)

SixKeys
03-25-2015, 01:47 AM
You know, one thing that is surprising about the games set in Europe is that it doesn't address the main Elephant in the Room of the medieval era: anti-semitism. Under the reign of Richard the Lionheart in AC1, Jews were expelled form England (granted its not covered geographically during the Crusades) and wouldn't be allowed back in until Oliver Cromwell brought them back. The Renaissance era is filled with anti-semitism of course.

One of the few redeeming good qualites of Pope Alexander VI, Rodrigo Borgia was that he was exceptionally tolerant in religious matters and allowed Jews expelled from Spain and Portugal to settle in the Jewish Quarter in Rome, gave them civil rights and no-strings-attached (i.e. no conversions). The Jewish Quarter totally existed (it goes back to the Roman Era) and is missing from the game. Likewise the French Revolution was the first time a European nation gave Jews full civil rights but it isn't addressed in UNITY either (mostly because the ones who were campaigning for it, Robespierre and Co. are presented as bad guys). The fact is we don't see any Jews at all in these games even if they were there at the time period and the characters we see in the game did deal with them. At most there are background mentions scattered here and there, and we see a synagogue in AC1 (a nice wooden structure in Jerusalem's Middle District with a Star of David) but there aren't Jewish characters or NPCs even if it makes sense for Assassins (an organization sympathetic to minorities nominally) to deal with them.

The senator that you have to protect in ACB is pretty obviously a Jew. His accent and mannerisms are fairly stereotypical. Other than that Jews are absent from the games. I guess Ubi is worried about tackling that issue.

VestigialLlama4
03-25-2015, 03:44 AM
The senator that you have to protect in ACB is pretty obviously a Jew. His accent and mannerisms are fairly stereotypical.

I didn't get that at all.

If you mean stereotypical in the sense than he's (Egidio Troche) a Woody Allen type complaining about being harassed and all that is 20th Century New York rather than anything in a European context.


Other than that Jews are absent from the games. I guess Ubi is worried about tackling that issue.

Mostly because it makes it hard for them to tell simple stories. Like the Pope who succeeded Rodrigo, Julius II was an anti-semite and he became Pope by telling everyone that Rodrigo Borgia was Jewish and practised incest and other stuff. And you know considering that the Borgia were a minor Spanish noble family (and Spain was a society where Jews were forced to change names and religions to continue - the likes of Cervantes and Velazquez were descended from converted Jews) it was likely true and it certainly would have given Rodrigo more shades in character than what we see.

SixKeys
03-25-2015, 03:52 AM
I didn't get that at all.

If you mean stereotypical in the sense than he's (Egidio Troche) a Woody Allen type complaining about being harassed and all that is 20th Century New York rather than anything in a European context.

Yes, that's what I meant. They made him a Hollywoodian stereotype because a European context wouldn't have been as recognizable to the audience. I don't know why they felt the need to do it either way, but his manner of speech differs from all the other characters' standard Italian and has that raspy "old Jewish uncle" quality that people like Jon Stewart like to mock.

VestigialLlama4
03-25-2015, 03:59 AM
Yes, that's what I meant. They made him a Hollywoodian stereotype because a European context wouldn't have been as recognizable to the audience. I don't know why they felt the need to do it either way, but his manner of speech differs from all the other characters' standard Italian and has that raspy "old Jewish uncle" quality that people like Jon Stewart like to mock.

I suppose you are right.