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Defalt221
03-21-2015, 11:26 AM
::Because
1)AC3 has linear gameplay and mission design Unity has open ended sandbox mission design
2)AC3 features a conservative moody assassin protagonist. Unity has an Ezio clone (you know what I mean)
3)Unity has most of it's focus on stealth and less on combat. AC3 has less focus on stealth and more focus on open combat and warfare. Combat is AC3 is a breeze.Combat in Unity is tougher than previous games..
4)Most side missions of AC3 has you doing other stuffs other than assassinating. Most missions of Unity are focused on assassinations

5)Reception:
AC 3:
GameRankings ------(PS3) 85.56%
(X360) 84.92%
(WIIU) 83.00%
(PC) 80.75%
Metacritic ----------------(PS3) 85/100
(WIIU) 85/100
(X360) 84/100
(PC) 80/100
Edge ----------------------8/10
Eurogamer ------------9/10
G4 ------------------------5/5
Game Informer ------9.5/10
GameSpot ------------8.5/10
GamesRadar ------4/5 stars
GameTrailers ------9.2/10
IGN ------------------8.5/10
Official PlayStation Magazine (UK) ----7/10
OXM -----------------8.5/10
Joystiq -----------------3.5/5 stars

AC Unity

GameRankings ----(PC) 73.33%
(XONE) 70.18%
(PS4) 68.11%
Metacritic ----------(XONE) 72/100
(PC) 70/100
(PS4) 70/100

Destructoid ---------7/10
Eurogamer ---------7/10
Game Informer ---8/10
GameSpot ---------7/10
GamesRadar ---4/5 stars
GameTrailers ---8/10
Giant Bomb ---------2/5 stars
IGN ---------------7.8/10
Joystiq ---------------2.5/5 stars
OXM (UK) ---------8/10
PC Gamer (US) ---65/100
Polygon ---------------6.5/10
VideoGamer.com---8/10

6)Sales:
AC3 : 12 million (best selling in the franchise)
AC Unity: 10 million (combined with Rogue)

EmptyCrustacean
03-21-2015, 11:32 AM
AC3 is the better game. Unity is a prime example of good ideas executed horribly.

VestigialLlama4
03-21-2015, 12:49 PM
AC3 is the better game. Unity is a prime example of good ideas executed horribly.

Actually "good ideas executed" I wouldn't say "horribly" but ineffectively is entirely AC3's shtick. Its a very good game that could have been really great.

UNITY has no good ideas and it executes even those poorly.

Shahkulu101
03-21-2015, 01:23 PM
Can you stop with the deliberately inflammatory threads please?

EmptyCrustacean
03-21-2015, 01:41 PM
Actually "good ideas executed" I wouldn't say "horribly" but ineffectively is entirely AC3's shtick. Its a very good game that could have been really great.

UNITY has no good ideas and it executes even those poorly.

I think the free nature of the main missions was a good idea but every single mission structure was essentially the same. The target would be guarded and you would somehow have to infiltrate their fortress without being detected - and with bad mechanics and nonsensical mission objectives. Rinse, wash, repeat. Their repetitiveness felt more like side missions. Campaign missions should be more dynamic with twist and turns.

EmptyCrustacean
03-21-2015, 01:42 PM
Can you stop with the deliberately inflammatory threads please?

How is this thread inflammatory?

Shahkulu101
03-21-2015, 01:50 PM
How is this thread inflammatory?

It's just like the "So is AC2 the best game" thread.

He knows two groups of people are going to clash in this thread.

Megas_Doux
03-21-2015, 02:28 PM
UNITY has no good ideas and it executes even those poorly.

SO.....

1:1 Buildings with interiors.
OPEN assasinations.
Customization.


Are bad ideas?????????

WOW.......

VestigialLlama4
03-21-2015, 03:43 PM
SO.....

1:1 Buildings with interiors.
OPEN assasinations.
Customization.


Are bad ideas?????????

WOW.......

When I use the word ideas, it implies a game coming up with something new on its own. Buildings with interiors (already present in QTE in the AC3 era, as well as Castel Sant'Angelo in Brotherhood), are logical extensions of open-world gameplay and something you expect in Next-Gen gameplay. Likewise 1:1 buildings, that's something you should expect in Next-Gen and its wasted when the only time that matters is the Notre Dame mission that's there in one section.

As for open Assassinations, that was there in AC1, and its there in the other games too, to great and small effect. So again nothing that UNITY came up on its own. As for Customization, well okay if you want your Assassin to look like a fancy Christmas Sock but never had the option, go ahead and string up the world's smallest violin to celebrate UNITY's GOTY achievement.

SixKeys
03-21-2015, 04:09 PM
Murder mysteries
Co-op
Time rifts
Seamless interiors

Xstantin
03-21-2015, 04:33 PM
Lots of numbers :rolleyes: numbers are important

Namikaze_17
03-21-2015, 05:21 PM
Can you stop with the deliberately inflammatory threads please?

I was gonna say the same.

Megas_Doux
03-21-2015, 05:38 PM
As for open Assassinations, that was there in AC1, and its there in the other games too, to great and small effect. So again nothing that UNITY came up on its own. As for Customization, well okay if you want your Assassin to look like a fancy Christmas Sock but never had the option, go ahead and string up the world's smallest violin to celebrate UNITY's GOTY achievement.


I have a love/hate relationship with that game. It´s just saying "it has no good ideas" is pretty much closed minded, as expected from you.....


By the way:

1 You cannot access the WHOLE interior of Castel Sant'Angelo at will everything you want, only during missions.
2 Aside from Notre Dame, regarding missions you have Tuileries Palace, Hôtel de Ville, Halle aux Blés....

I could use that violin thing to a lot stuff regarding AC III and Connor, but I wont.

Defalt221
03-21-2015, 05:55 PM
It's just like the "So is AC2 the best game" thread.

He knows two groups of people are going to clash in this thread.

But that's what basically happens in every thread. There'll always be difference in opinions and quarrels (respectfully) Anyway,I started this thread to see what others have to say (Not torch a quarrel or anything.). AC3 and Unity tried to do different things. And ended up being the least liked of the series. I wonder why?

Assassin_M
03-21-2015, 06:36 PM
And ended up being the least liked of the series. I wonder why?
AC III is no where NEAR as disliked as Unity. It's also no where near as unpopular as some want to make out to be.

EmptyCrustacean
03-21-2015, 07:44 PM
AC III is no where NEAR as disliked as Unity. It's also no where near as unpopular as some want to make out to be.

We've done polls on here and, for some reason, AC3 always comes out as most hated so yes it is less popular than Unity although I honestly cannot tell you why.

Assassin_M
03-21-2015, 08:03 PM
We've done polls on here and, for some reason, AC3 always comes out as most hated so yes it is less popular than Unity although I honestly cannot tell you why.
Polls here mean nothing. Metacritic is a more accurate measure of fan reception. AC III has a 769 positive to 228 negative reception. That means for every single person who hated AC III, there were 4 who liked it. Contrast that with Unity, which has 741 negative to 638 positive.

That said, regarding polls here, not a single poll asks "most hated AC", no, all of them ask "favorite AC". Doesn't necessarily mean that the least voted one is most hated.

EmptyCrustacean
03-21-2015, 08:10 PM
Polls here mean nothing. Metacritic is a more accurate measure of fan reception. AC III has a 769 positive to 228 negative reception. That means for every single person who hated AC III, there were 4 who liked it. Contrast that with Unity, which has 741 negative to 638 positive.

That said, regarding polls here, not a single poll asks "most hated AC", no, all of them ask "favorite AC". Doesn't necessarily mean that the least voted one is most hated.

I actually did a poll here after Unity was released asking what the worst AC game was. AC3 came out on top.

Assassin_M
03-21-2015, 08:20 PM
I actually did a poll here after Unity was released asking what the worst AC game was. AC3 came out on top.
Fair point but again, it's only 69 people who voted.

M3gaToxic
03-21-2015, 08:34 PM
Connor is moody for a reason (don't understand why people keep bringing that up).

1. He saw his village and Mother burn (and then when he finds out how it happen that sets him off even more)
2. His father is a Templar who tried to kill him (and seemed like Haythem wouldn't have cared)
3. Native-Americans were looked down upon in that era

So yeah if I were him I would be moody too.

Haven't played Unity though but I want to. I never really care much if people say "Oh this AC sucked it wasn't good" because honestly I have loved all the AC games so far, with AC3 my new favorite.

Xstantin
03-21-2015, 08:44 PM
That said, regarding polls here, not a single poll asks "most hated AC", no, all of them ask "favorite AC". Doesn't necessarily mean that the least voted one is most hated.

I doubt a thread like "Which AC you hate the most" will live long :)

Defalt221
03-22-2015, 11:33 AM
I doubt a thread like "Which AC you hate the most" will live long :)

Let's make one and check it out!

Farlander1991
03-22-2015, 03:15 PM
It should just be called 'least favourite AC' rather than 'most hated AC' and it should be fine.

poptartz20
03-22-2015, 10:00 PM
@ farlander then again.. hasn't that been done too before in a way? Probably not officially polled but it's always the list in order from favorite to least favorite when people are asked whats your favorite ac.

Farlander1991
03-22-2015, 10:32 PM
@ farlander then again.. hasn't that been done too before in a way? Probably not officially polled but it's always the list in order from favorite to least favorite when people are asked whats your favorite ac.

Well, no.

If a poll is about your favourite AC, then the least voted for is not necessarily the least favourite.

Here's an example, let's say we have 5 ACs (numbers now don't represent any game in particular, just for example). Let's say we have 10 voters and we put the order of their favourites in a table (top - most favourite game, bottom - least favourite):
AC1 - AC1 - AC1 - AC1 - AC1 - AC2 - AC2 - AC3 - AC3 - AC4
AC2 - AC3 - AC5 - AC5 - AC5 - AC3 - AC4 - AC5 - AC4 - AC5
AC3 - AC5 - AC4 - AC3 - AC4 - AC5 - AC5 - AC1 - AC5 - AC3
AC4 - AC4 - AC3 - AC4 - AC3 - AC4 - AC1 - AC4 - AC1 - AC1
AC5 - AC2 - AC2 - AC2 - AC2 - AC1 - AC3 - AC2 - AC2 - AC2

If we get a poll for the most favourite, then AC5 doesn't get any votes at all. But it doesn't mean that it's the least favourite for a big amount of players. It can be a close second or somewhere in the middle, or not as bad as the AC2 example that everybody hates in this voter pool example and is at the very bottom. If there'd be a poll for the least favourite game, then the AC2 example, not the AC5 example, would be in the lead as least favourite, even though the AC5 example didn't get any votes in the 'most favourite' poll.

Markaccus
03-23-2015, 07:39 PM
Have not played it yet, having only just got a ps4 and am busy with far cry4.... but isnt unity unpopular because of all the bugs?

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 08:09 PM
Have not played it yet, having only just got a ps4 and am busy with far cry4.... but isnt unity unpopular because of all the bugs?

Those are only the most visible aspects of the problem. Once the game fixes the bugs you have the real issues.

General complaints are
1) Protagonist is too much like Ezio, has no personality and no edge.
2) The story is pretty black-and-white with no gray areas,
3) The combat is overly elaborate
4) There are also the companion Apps and initiates.
5),Some people don't like Co-Op and they also don't like the way those Co-Op missions with historical stuff are just scattered across the map in no chronological order.
6) MD and overall story doesn't matter.
7) Villains suck.
8) Assassins act like morons.
9) The game is filled with outright historical lies and distortions to an extent that the earlier titles look like documentaries. It's also a very cliched, conventional, boring and right-wing story.
10) The game's side missions are lame;
11) Oh and the English accents are ridiculous, stupid and nonsensical.
12) The only decently written characters die in the game.

AC3 also had some minor bugs at the time of the release, nowhere near the Porting Disaster that Unity had. But people forgave it because it had an awesome story, great villains, cool side missions, totally unique setting and an original, unique protagonist who was not shoehorned to be franchise friendly.

SixKeys
03-23-2015, 08:14 PM
Have not played it yet, having only just got a ps4 and am busy with far cry4.... but isnt unity unpopular because of all the bugs?

Not exclusively. Most of the bugs have been ironed out through patches by now, but many people still have problems with the game's story, characters, performance, handling of modern day etc.



AC3 also had some minor bugs at the time of the release, nowhere near the Porting Disaster that Unity had. But people forgave it because it had an awesome story, great villains, cool side missions, totally unique setting and an original, unique protagonist who was not shoehorned to be franchise friendly.

Come on, at least be intellectually honest. I can accept your criticisms regarding Unity, but don't rtry to paint AC3's reception as better than it initially was. AC3 was the worst-received entry in the series before Unity. It had a huge amount of bugs and glitches at release, which many reviews made sure to point out. Many players were divided over the protagonist and the handling of the story (especially with regard to Haytham and the pacing). As for modern day, the best thing most reviewers had to say about it was that thankfully the Desmond saga was now definitively at an end and hopefully we would see less Animus stuff in future titles. AC3 has only risen in some people's estimation due to the comparison with Unity's disastrous launch, which was arguably worse, but they weren't night and day as you're attempting to claim.

Hate on Unity all you want, but don't try to wax nostalgic on what AC3's release was actually like.

Xstantin
03-23-2015, 08:28 PM
^I still remember all the complaints about Common Man scanning thingy and the horses :p

Markaccus
03-23-2015, 08:48 PM
^I still remember all the complaints about Common Man scanning thingy and the horses :p

Yeah i remember that. And there was the fact that,if you did not do the homestead missions within a certain window of them becoming available, the vannished and you couldnt complete them. Basically the side content in the game was either boring or broken. I cant imagine unity being that bad.

@sixkeys..... ironically, the modern day content in ac3 was the most involved and fun out of all of the games to date imo. Its the only part i actually really enjoyed :-D

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 08:58 PM
Hate on Unity all you want, but don't try to wax nostalgic on what AC3's release was actually like.

Well, as the opening posts says, AC3 had a terrific launch reception as per Metacritic and the like. I know because I was there, I bought the game on the very first day. AC3 had a backlash and its called a backlash because the initial reception was very positive, so a minority of fandom (largely the whiteboy crowd at Kotaku, with the exception of Evan Narcisse and Stephen Totilo, and other gaming sites who can't handle a character who isn't immediately related to their small pool of references) started exaggerating stuff to burst the bubble. And since most of the people who liked the game were busy playing it and exploring it (it did sell very well after that), there weren't as many to counter this and it was allowed to fester.

Unity for instance cannot claim to have suffered a backlash since it was negatively recieved from the get-go.


AC3 was the worst-received entry in the series before Unity.

The worst-recieved entry that is also highly rated on critics score and is also the best-selling game of the Franchise? AC3 was actually recieved better than ACR.

That was seen as essentially an Ezio game that overstayed its elements, there were also complaints about it being too scripted and having no assassination missions (which is true, its even less stealthy than AC3), bomb-crafting mechanic, den defense and so on, and it just reused the elements from AC2 and ACB. Today, people like ACR for what it is, a nice side-game with an awesome pretty map.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 09:05 PM
Yeah i remember that. And there was the fact that,if you did not do the homestead missions within a certain window of them becoming available, the vannished and you couldnt complete them.

This. Never. Happens.

The Homestead missions are perfectly accessible throughout the game, can be started and finished even after you complete the game. Of course, it makes narrative sense to do it alongside the sequences which unlock the next chain of missions since you get access to better weapons, upgrades and the like.

Don't make up stuff which doesn't happen. The side missions of AC3 were never broken. If there's a problem its the fact that the Map didn't always reveal every single item even after you did the synchronization but that only affected some of the Liberation missions and the General Store locations (which were intended to be discovered on the map anyway) and those could still be accessed on foot and discovered. That's an interface problem rather than side mission mechanic. And fixed in one of the first patches.

SixKeys
03-23-2015, 09:19 PM
Well, as the opening posts says, AC3 had a terrific launch reception as per Metacritic and the like. I know because I was there, I bought the game on the very first day. AC3 had a backlash and its called a backlash because the initial reception was very positive, so a minority of fandom (largely the whiteboy crowd at Kotaku, with the exception of Evan Narcisse and Stephen Totilo, and other gaming sites who can't handle a character who isn't immediately related to their small pool of references) started exaggerating stuff to burst the bubble. And since most of the people who liked the game were busy playing it and exploring it (it did sell very well after that), there weren't as many to counter this and it was allowed to fester.

Unity for instance cannot claim to have suffered a backlash since it was negatively recieved from the get-go.

The worst-recieved entry that is also highly rated on critics score and is also the best-selling game of the Franchise? AC3 was actually recieved better than ACR.

That was seen as essentially an Ezio game that overstayed its elements, there were also complaints about it being too scripted and having no assassination missions (which is true, its even less stealthy than AC3), bomb-crafting mechanic, den defense and so on, and it just reused the elements from AC2 and ACB. Today, people like ACR for what it is, a nice side-game with an awesome pretty map.

I was there too, and my perception of events was very different. AC3 sold well because of the US-centric marketing and because it was the long-awaited ending to Desmond's journey, but critically it received less than stellar reviews. It wasn't a failure by any means, but it wasn't amazingly well-received either. On Metacritic, the PC version of AC3 and ACR are rated the same, an 80 for professional reviewers. User score gives AC3 a 6.1 whereas ACR stands at 7.3. The naval campaign was a saving grace for the game as it was pretty much universally praised as the best aspect of the entire game.

Farlander1991
03-23-2015, 09:28 PM
(which is true, its even less stealthy than AC3)

You have to define what you mean by 'stealthy'. Because if you mean situations where stealth must be used or is a viable/useful option, then your statement is factually not true.

Quite a while ago I made what I call a stealth viability sheet. You can find it here (https://docs.google.com/a/stanislavcostiuc.com/spreadsheets/d/1eQ07CEUfoueQIWBYLiKNUw9a7jz4UarIN82bv2ZxNOk/edit#gid=1635671420). You can read more about how it works in this thread (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/898522-Assassin-s-Creed-series-stealth-viability-sheet) or in this blog post. (http://stanislavcostiuc.com/2014/09/22/assassins-creed-series-stealth-viability-analysis/) I'm using a very simple system (as something more detailed is very time consuming), but it's actually pretty accurate. In the thread I've mentioned that there might be a 3-5% margin of error, I've actually made tests using a more detailed approach to this (based on ACIV's main campaign), and the margin of error was as slow as 2-3%. So it's all fairly accurate.

And the facts are: Assassin's Creed III is the game with the least amount of situations where stealth is viable or useful. Not only percentage-wise (i.e. in relation to the total amount of content in the game), but even when just counting the hard numbers, Assassin's Creed: Revelations, a much smaller game, has got more content where stealth is a useful (or required) option than the whole of Assassin's Creed III (without DLC, which adds a considerable amount of stealth due to the desire to showcase the new invisible wolf mechanic, but dlc saves AC3 in this regard only when comparing hard numbers with ACR, not percentages).

In fact, ACR is the game where stealth is the most useful out of the whole Ezio trilogy, because of its approach to world/mission design, and the bomb-crafting mechanic which, while has a lot of redundancies, also adds lots of possibilities for crowd/enemy control and manipulation allowing to be out of sight and undetected.

EmptyCrustacean
03-23-2015, 09:34 PM
Well, as the opening posts says, AC3 had a terrific launch reception as per Metacritic and the like. I know because I was there, I bought the game on the very first day. AC3 had a backlash and its called a backlash because the initial reception was very positive, so a minority of fandom (largely the whiteboy crowd at Kotaku, with the exception of Evan Narcisse and Stephen Totilo, and other gaming sites who can't handle a character who isn't immediately related to their small pool of references) started exaggerating stuff to burst the bubble. And since most of the people who liked the game were busy playing it and exploring it (it did sell very well after that), there weren't as many to counter this and it was allowed to fester.

Unity for instance cannot claim to have suffered a backlash since it was negatively recieved from the get-go.



The worst-recieved entry that is also highly rated on critics score and is also the best-selling game of the Franchise? AC3 was actually recieved better than ACR.

That was seen as essentially an Ezio game that overstayed its elements, there were also complaints about it being too scripted and having no assassination missions (which is true, its even less stealthy than AC3), bomb-crafting mechanic, den defense and so on, and it just reused the elements from AC2 and ACB. Today, people like ACR for what it is, a nice side-game with an awesome pretty map.

I was very shocked to find that AC3 was so hated years later as I recalled it being received quite well initially and being seen as an improvement over Revelations. Now all these AC3 haters have come out of the woodwork and are praising Revelations left, right and centre.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 09:34 PM
I was there too, and my perception of events was very different.

Undoubtedly. Our feelings towards the game colour our memories. I will say one thing about AC3 was that it did not have an indifferent reception and pretty much all aspects of the game were covered and dissected. It was a game that people explored and kept finding new stuff right through it.

Whereas with UNITY, few people really discuss all its aspects or unpack its secrets. Like the Rift conversations and the like. I daresay that my post about its historical errors in its side missions and the like was the most detailed and in-depth look at the game in all its aspects.


AC3 sold well because of the US-centric marketing and because it was the long-awaited ending to Desmond's journey,

By US-Centric what do you mean? That it attracted the Bible Belt crowd or the kind that play Call of Duty? And I hardly see how the Desmond part was a reason for its sales, there was no trailer dealing with it, almost no promotion and in any case, Desmond wasn't all that popular a part of the game.

The truth is AC3 sold well because it was a fresh and cool premise, which got a lot of preorders, then it recieved good word of mouth. The Haytham section at the start, the complex story, the historical battles and so on.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 09:38 PM
You have to define what you mean by 'stealthy'.

In the sense that there are very few story missions where you need to use stealth. The game has a single Assassination mission (Tarik Berleti) and you put on a Jannissary Costume for that, so its semi-scripted as well.

Farlander1991
03-23-2015, 09:46 PM
In the sense that there are very few story missions where you need to use stealth. The game has a single Assassination mission (Tarik Berleti) and you put on a Jannissary Costume for that, so its semi-scripted as well.

You don't really need to use stealth in most of the AC missions, desynchronizations on detections, while can be annoying and memorable, are also not used very widely. Neither AC3, nor ACR have a lot of them.

That said, if you as a player go for an all-stealth playthrough (or as much stealth as possible), then ACR is more stealthy than AC3, regardless if you compare just the main campaigns, the side content, or games as a whole, ACR wins in stealth in all match-ups against AC3.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 09:55 PM
That said, if you as a player go for an all-stealth playthrough (or as much stealth as possible), then ACR is more stealthy than AC3, regardless if you compare just the main campaigns, the side content, or games as a whole, ACR wins in stealth in all match-ups against AC3.

Maybe. I never did put it on the grid like you did (admirably I might add) so I'll take your word for it. It's just that for me the stealthiest moment that I could remember was say, visiting the Prince at Topkapi Palace and dodging the guards on my way in-and-out. Also the Yerabatan Cistern.

SixKeys
03-23-2015, 09:57 PM
By US-Centric what do you mean? That it attracted the Bible Belt crowd or the kind that play Call of Duty? And I hardly see how the Desmond part was a reason for its sales, there was no trailer dealing with it, almost no promotion and in any case, Desmond wasn't all that popular a part of the game.

By US-centric I mean the "Murica, **** yeah!" marketing campaign. Bluecoat deaths were edited out of American gameplay trailers whereas redcoats were shown getting slaughtered, stuff like that.

Desmond may not have been a popular character, but his story was still supposed to be an epic saga with lots of intriguing twists and turns. People were annoyed that Lucy's death wasn't properly explained in ACR and were hoping to finally get an explanation for that, as well as the whole 2012 end-of-the-world thing which has been built up ever since the series' conception in 2007.

Watch Dogs sold well too, yet was considered a critical failure. Pre-orders are a poor measurement of popularity as it simply means people are buying the game on promises alone. AC3 has been out for 3 years now. Its worst problems have either been patched out or forgotten as people have moved on. Unity is still fresh in everyone's minds, but I bet if we wait for a couple of years, the general perception will start skewing towards more positive. We've already seen this happening as many people who bought the game at a sale with all the patches already implemented and all the Initiates crap taken out are now saying "I don't understand all the Unity hate".

Farlander1991
03-23-2015, 10:08 PM
Maybe. I never did put it on the grid like you did (admirably I might add) so I'll take your word for it. It's just that for me the stealthiest moment that I could remember was say, visiting the Prince at Topkapi Palace and dodging the guards on my way in-and-out. Also the Yerabatan Cistern.

Those all are missions were detection desynchronizes you, that's why you probably remember them as stealthy, you had to complete them stealthy. What you can complete stealthy might not be as memorable, especially considering that with most of AC games, combat was so overpowered that it's not a big deal if you get detected so you might not really feel the need for stealth (even if you are doing it stealthy, just because there's no feeling of danger).

Xstantin
03-23-2015, 10:15 PM
By US-Centric what do you mean? That it attracted the Bible Belt crowd or the kind that play Call of Duty? And I hardly see how the Desmond part was a reason for its sales, there was no trailer dealing with it, almost no promotion and in any case, Desmond wasn't all that popular a part of the game.



Lots of people expected Desmond to become some super assassin godlike tank back then iirc.

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 10:28 PM
By US-centric I mean the "Murica, **** yeah!" marketing campaign. Bluecoat deaths were edited out of American gameplay trailers whereas redcoats were shown getting slaughtered, stuff like that.

Desmond may not have been a popular character, but his story was still supposed to be an epic saga with lots of intriguing twists and turns. People were annoyed that Lucy's death wasn't properly explained in ACR and were hoping to finally get an explanation for that, as well as the whole 2012 end-of-the-world thing which has been built up ever since the series' conception in 2007.

Watch Dogs sold well too, yet was considered a critical failure. Pre-orders are a poor measurement of popularity as it simply means people are buying the game on promises alone. AC3 has been out for 3 years now. Its worst problems have either been patched out or forgotten as people have moved on. Unity is still fresh in everyone's minds, but I bet if we wait for a couple of years, the general perception will start skewing towards more positive. We've already seen this happening as many people who bought the game at a sale with all the patches already implemented and all the Initiates crap taken out are now saying "I don't understand all the Unity hate".

Indeed....

Not only the nature of the marketing itself, but also the HUGE amount of it. AC III was announced rather early in 2012, at least a couple of months ahead within its year than ACB, ACR and Unity. That game was ALL over the place, factually the BIGGEST marketing campaign of Ubisoft´s history: trailers, tv ads, internet ads and articles which in terms of quality, quantity and frequence on PRIME TIME events rivaled those of any behemothic releases of Activision and EA.

Hell, AC III even won MANY marketing awards.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 10:30 PM
By US-centric I mean the "Murica, **** yeah!" marketing campaign. Bluecoat deaths were edited out of American gameplay trailers whereas redcoats were shown getting slaughtered, stuff like that.

Well, that 'Murica campaign didn't matter solely because the hero was a Native American, everybody knew where the story was going solely because of who you are playing as. If they had a White Assassin, then what you say would have made sense. The game was an international success after all, because people knew that they were not getting a propaganda piece.


AC3 has been out for 3 years now. Its worst problems have either been patched out or forgotten as people have moved on.

Except its worst problems were minor annoyances that affected a smaller group of gamers than UNITY's wider-ranging problems. Most of it was solved on the first patch and by the time the first part of TOKW DLC came (around December I think), it was all solved. This is borne out on the fact that the AC3 team were able to make money of its DLC while UNITY achieved the rare feat of losing all its money with DLC, that's a marketing failure people will talk about for a while.


Unity is still fresh in everyone's minds, but I bet if we wait for a couple of years, the general perception will start skewing towards more positive. We've already seen this happening as many people who bought the game at a sale with all the patches already implemented and all the Initiates crap taken out are now saying "I don't understand all the Unity hate".

I have no doubt that some people will think well of UNITY, the first game they bought in PS4 and the first AC game for many people, and most of them probably don't care for the history and since UNITY is the first AC title that appeals explicitly to ignorance (which is obvious in the incredibly bad database entries) they are in many ways the intended audience. They are also the kind who are unlikely to revisit earlier titles on older consoles and I don't blame them.

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 10:35 PM
Except its worst problems were minor annoyances that affected a smaller group of gamers than UNITY's wider-ranging problems. Most of it was solved on the first patch and by the time the first part of TOKW DLC came (around December I think), it was all solved. This is borne out on the fact that the AC3 team were able to make money of its DLC while UNITY achieved the rare feat of losing all its money with DLC, that's a marketing failure people will talk about for a while.



I have no doubt that some people will think well of UNITY, the first game they bought in PS4 and the first AC game for many people, and most of them probably don't care for the history and since UNITY is the first AC title that appeals explicitly to ignorance (which is obvious in the incredibly bad database entries) they are in many ways the intended audience. They are also the kind who are unlikely to revisit earlier titles on older consoles and I don't blame them.

There are MANY here whose first AC game was AC III......

TO_M
03-23-2015, 10:46 PM
I don't get why you two still try arguing with him, his mind seems made-up. (or he is trolling)

But it's good to know that I apparently dislike Connor because I'm white.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 10:51 PM
But it's good to know that I apparently dislike Connor because I'm white.

If that is all you care about (that is it being okay to dislike Connor even if you are white) and you want a good citizenship card, then fine, have a cookie.

Assassin_M
03-23-2015, 10:52 PM
User score gives AC3 a 6.1 whereas ACR stands at 7.3. The naval campaign was a saving grace for the game as it was pretty much universally praised as the best aspect of the entire game.
Don't use the scores, please. A game can have 2 ratings and score a "10", it doesn't mean anything. A more accurate and fair proposition would be using the number of ratings.

AC III has 674 positive to 333 negative on PC, while ACR has 486 positive to 76 negative on PC.

More people liked AC III but more people also disliked it. Which, again, means that AC III is not as unpopular or badly received as people make it out to be.

king-hailz
03-23-2015, 10:57 PM
I used to say they were opposites because they had problems but opposite problems. AC3 had a good plot but was presented terribly. ACU was presented well but ACU had a terrible plot!

king-hailz
03-23-2015, 11:01 PM
Don't use the scores, please. A game can have 2 ratings and score a "10", it doesn't mean anything. A more accurate and fair proposition would be using the number of ratings.

AC III has 674 positive to 333 negative on PC, while ACR has 486 positive to 76 negative on PC.

More people liked AC III but more people also disliked it. Which, again, means that AC III is not as unpopular or badly received as people make it out to be.

Using the rating you gave AC3 would have 67% and ACR would have 85%! This takes into account the amount of votes and positive against the negatives...

It makes sense to say this is the average point of view.

TO_M
03-23-2015, 11:02 PM
If that is all you care about (that is it being okay to dislike Connor even if you are white) and you want a good citizenship card, then fine, have a cookie.

I don't get what you're trying to say.

Some people dislike Connor because he is boring and monotone, not because they're white people who "can't handle characters outside their reference pool".

Altair isn't white and people liked him fine (Mostly, I realize that there are people who aren't fond of him)

Assassin_M
03-23-2015, 11:03 PM
Using the rating you gave AC3 would have 67% and ACR would have 85%! This takes into account the amount of votes and positive against the negatives...

It makes sense to say this is the average point of view.
Again, doing the math means nothing. Like I said, a game can have a low amount of ratings and through the math, it can score a 10. Is that game better than AC III by that standard?

king-hailz
03-23-2015, 11:07 PM
Again, doing the math means nothing. Like I said, a game can have a low amount of ratings and through the math, it can score a 10. Is that game better than AC III by that standard?

No but in this case ACR and AC3 have enough amount of Votes each that it is okay to use math here to see the average rating...

It doesn't matter how many people like a game, what matters is that out of all the people have the game which ones liked and which ones didn't... so the system of these ratings does Matter.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 11:09 PM
I used to say they were opposites because they had problems but opposite problems. AC3 had a good plot but was presented terribly. ACU was presented well but ACU had a terrible plot!

The main problem in terms of form is that AC3 and UNITY have a revolutionary setting. What that means is the entire open world formula can't be a fixed static thing. There are vast changes happening and its not a one-person story. As such these games have to be by necessity be more scripted and determined around set events, because the rule of history is that time and space, and the events which take place in a certain window absolutely do matter. When a game is set in a vague period like the Golden Age of Piracy, the Renaissance, the Crusades and the Victorian Era I suppose, you have legroom since these things are gradual, no real start and stop time, no specific big events but rather several episodes and incidents in between.

Now this is the problem of the setting and obviously developers should come up with ways to the problem. One is to find a complex solution for the problem, the other is to simplify and streamline it and not deal with it all. AC3 chose the first approach and didn't fully succeed but came very close, and UNITY took the second option outright lied about the historical situation and proceeded as if it wasn't a problem.

Assassin_M
03-23-2015, 11:10 PM
No but in this case ACR and AC3 have enough amount of Votes each that it is okay to use math here to see the average rating...
Consistency, consistency, consistency.

Factually, more people liked AC III than they did ACR. Why try to dance around it? My point was clear: AC III is not as badly received as people like to make out to be. Point proven. Case rested. It's really simple.

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 11:12 PM
AC III has the biggest maketing of Ubisoft´s history and thus, that game is more liked than ACR based on sheer numbers.


In terms of story/history, both AC III and Unity had problems dealing with their revolutions:

AC III suffered from the "forrest gump" effect in which Connor basically causes and wins the revolution by himself. Whereas Arno does not give a damn about "his" on the main campaign.

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 11:14 PM
I don't get what you're trying to say.

Alright, I actually discussed a host of things and the topic covered a bunch of stuff not pertaining to why people may or may not have disliked Connor and you chose that one particular point to pick a bone with. I only made an off-the-cuff remark there. It is a fact that a good percentage of the nerds who are gamers are racist and misogynist and stating that some people disliked Connor because he isn't white is a fairly safe assumption to make given the disproportionate nature of the online response.

Farlander1991
03-23-2015, 11:17 PM
AC III suffered from the "forrest gump" effect in which Connor basically causes and wins the revolution by himself. Whereas Arno does not give a damn about "his" on the main campaign.

To be honest, the gump factor in Unity side-missions is switched to over-drive, there's like a historical person in almost every Paris Story. Just too damn many, that's another extreme IMO, I don't really like that approach.

Megas_Doux
03-23-2015, 11:21 PM
To be honest, the gump factor in Unity side-missions is switched to over-drive, there's like a historical person in almost every Paris Story. Just too damn many, that's another extreme IMO, I don't really like that approach.

I agree!

That´s why I wish there would have been more "history" on the main campaign. My MAIN gripe with AC III is how "gump factor" affected the mission design... Midnight Ride, Concord and Lexingon, Monmout??????NEVER AGAIN please....

Assassin_M
03-23-2015, 11:21 PM
stating that some people disliked Connor because he isn't white is a fairly safe assumption to make given the disproportionate nature of the online response.
I hate to agree with you Llama, but I can attest to this. I came across various posts on Game FAQs, Gaf and Reddit that were either patriotic (i.e. A native american won our war for us? BS and Nobody wants to see a native's little village saved, i want to see the real story of the murican revolution) or just downright racist.

TO_M
03-23-2015, 11:24 PM
Alright, I actually discussed a host of things and the topic covered a bunch of stuff not pertaining to why people may or may not have disliked Connor and you chose that one particular point to pick a bone with. I only made an off-the-cuff remark there. It is a fact that a good percentage of the nerds who are gamers are racist and misogynist and stating that some people disliked Connor because he isn't white is a fairly safe assumption to make given the disproportionate nature of the online response.

Ok, so why hasn't Altair received a similar reception? They're both non-white, but I don't recall there ever being a mention of race when people were discussing whether or not they liked/disliked Altair (But then again I rarely check AC forums outside this one so that might skew it a bit)

VestigialLlama4
03-23-2015, 11:44 PM
Ok, so why hasn't Altair received a similar reception? They're both non-white, but I don't recall there ever being a mention of race when people were discussing whether or not they liked/disliked Altair

Actually Altair was himself not well regarded for quite a while. When AC3 came out, people compared Connor to Altair in terms of "seriousness".

Nobody ever comes out and says, "I hate so-and-so because I believe Anglo-Saxon Caucasian is the master race", its just reflected in their statements, reactions and line of argument and reasoning. Nobody likes being called a racist even if they are one.

Look, I want to avoid doing the usual thing where one tangent and issue (like that time politics came up here, that was embarassing) takes space. Go have a cookie, and be content that I am not calling you a racist. If there's something else vis-a-vis comparisons of UNITY/AC3 that you want to add, go right ahead.

TO_M
03-23-2015, 11:55 PM
Nobody ever comes out and says, "I hate so-and-so because I believe Anglo-Saxon Caucasian is the master race", its just reflected in their statements, reactions and line of argument and reasoning. Nobody likes being called a racist even if they are one.

Look, I want to avoid doing the usual thing where one tangent and issue (like that time politics came up here, that was embarassing) takes space. Go have a cookie, and be content that I am not calling you a racist. If there's something else vis-a-vis comparisons of UNITY/AC3 that you want to add, go right ahead.

Ok so I'm supposed to take your word for it because you're such a master analyst of the written word and its hidden meanings/subtext?

And if you don't want to deal with/talk about/discuss these kinds of issues then why did you bring them up? So you can have your cookie back and how about you eat it instead of talking out of your ***.

SixKeys
03-24-2015, 12:08 AM
Ok so I'm supposed to take your word for it because you're such a master analyst of the written word and its hidden meanings/subtext?

And if you don't want to deal with/talk about/discuss these kinds of issues then why did you bring them up? So you can have your cookie back and how about you eat it instead of talking out of your ***.

http://justthetip.fm/wp-content/uploads/season02/episode23/shownote-mjpopcorn.gif

VestigialLlama4
03-24-2015, 06:00 AM
Ok so I'm supposed to take your word for it because you're such a master analyst of the written word and its hidden meanings/subtext?

You are supposed to think for yourself. Racism in video games is an omnipresent thing to the point that people just take it for granted and don't question it. And gamers as seen recently in the gamergate scandal generally over-react badly when someone asks smart, common-sense question about the toys they play, thinking it means someone wants to take those toys away.


And if you don't want to deal with/talk about/discuss these kinds of issues then why did you bring them up?

I didn't bring it up, I just mentioned it in a single line. This forum thread is about AC3 and UNITY being polar opposites and so comparing the two. I was just pointing out that AC3 was exceptionally popular on release and that the negative reception only came a little afterwards. If we want to discuss race in these games its worth starting a thread of its own, but I have a feeling that the moderators will close that thread.

In any case, even the developers acknowledge racism is a factor for the over-the-top backlash. That's why in Black Flag, the Abstergo Marketing Videos put all the usual anti-Connor complaints in the mouths of Templars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPSovJcC2tQ

"Mohawk culture lacks the balance to tell the true story of America. Moreover, we feel that the Mohawk language will be an issue for most of our audience. We therefore feel that although Ratohnhake;ton's early life is of some interest to our more educated viewers its unlikely his story will appeal on a more broader scale being too foreign, as it were for normal audiences."

king-hailz
03-24-2015, 06:41 AM
Consistency, consistency, consistency.

Factually, more people liked AC III than they did ACR. Why try to dance around it? My point was clear: AC III is not as badly received as people like to make out to be. Point proven. Case rested. It's really simple.

Haha I'm sorry but with your logic it would be okay to say that AC3 is not badly received if it had 1000 positive votes and 1 million negative votes just because that 1000 positive is more than revelations 500 positive votes (even if revelations had 0 negative votes)...

Markaccus
03-24-2015, 11:32 AM
This. Never. Happens.

The Homestead missions are perfectly accessible throughout the game, can be started and finished even after you complete the game. Of course, it makes narrative sense to do it alongside the sequences which unlock the next chain of missions since you get access to better weapons, upgrades and the like.

Don't make up stuff which doesn't happen. The side missions of AC3 were never broken. If there's a problem its the fact that the Map didn't always reveal every single item even after you did the synchronization but that only affected some of the Liberation missions and the General Store locations (which were intended to be discovered on the map anyway) and those could still be accessed on foot and discovered. That's an interface problem rather than side mission mechanic. And fixed in one of the first patches.


It bloody well DID happen! I have not made this up. When i played through, i did them as they became available. This was because i had read somewhere that it was possible to lose the chance to do them. However, when my son played through, he skipped doing them, and when he asked me how to finnish them off, i went to show him (he had completed the main story). He was able to do 3 or 4 of them, but then they just stopped appearing. No sign ANYWHERE, in ANY location. That = Broken imo.

pirate1802
03-24-2015, 02:04 PM
It bloody well DID happen! I have not made this up. When i played through, i did them as they became available. This was because i had read somewhere that it was possible to lose the chance to do them. However, when my son played through, he skipped doing them, and when he asked me how to finnish them off, i went to show him (he had completed the main story). He was able to do 3 or 4 of them, but then they just stopped appearing. No sign ANYWHERE, in ANY location. That = Broken imo.

Yeah that is not broken, that is because one homestead mission is left unfinished, which is why new missions won't appear. Happened to me as well, turned out I had forgotten to buy a hammer and gift it to the carpenter. I did so and the missions started appearing again.

Markaccus
03-24-2015, 02:19 PM
Yeah that is not broken, that is because one homestead mission is left unfinished, which is why new missions won't appear. Happened to me as well, turned out I had forgotten to buy a hammer and gift it to the carpenter. I did so and the missions started appearing again.

I suppose thats a posibility... but i kept checking all the current objective stuff in the menu, and looking all over for a sign, and there was nothing even hinting that something was missed.

At least you have not insisted i made the situation up :D

pirate1802
03-24-2015, 02:34 PM
Because it happened to me, and I too thought they had ended. :p

Assassin_M
03-24-2015, 02:40 PM
Haha I'm sorry but with your logic it would be okay to say that AC3 is not badly received if it had 1000 positive votes and 1 million negative votes just because that 1000 positive is more than revelations 500 positive votes (even if revelations had 0 negative votes)...
I don't think you understand my logic. AC III has 700 positive to 200 negative on the PS3 and 360. That means that for everyone who disliked it, you ran into 4 people who liked it. What you're arguing is not what I said at all. I'm arguing AC III's numbers because the positive reviews outweigh the negative reviews by a substantial amount. That's a 1:4 proportion. Unity, on the other hand, has negative scores FAR FAR outweigh positive scores. No one can argue that it didnt have a bad reception.

VestigialLlama4
03-24-2015, 02:40 PM
At least you have not insisted i made the situation up :D

Well you didn't specify which mission either, I kind of assumed you would read and understand a mission objective. In either case, the side missions aren't broken.

Markaccus
03-24-2015, 02:48 PM
Well you didn't specify which mission either, I kind of assumed you would read and understand a mission objective. In either case, the side missions aren't broken.


1) Already made it clear that i had done them all on my play through

2) I didnt specify a mission because i am not sure at which point they stopped appearing.

3) You imediately decided that i had made it up, even though it DID happen. The reason why is not relevant. I have said it is POSSIBLE for my son to have missed something, but i have looked around the menus and all locations and there are no pointers.

4) If there is not the slightest trace of something incomplete while there are still missions left over that we can't access, then, call it what you like, but i call it broken.

VestigialLlama4
03-24-2015, 03:09 PM
3) You imediately decided that i had made it up, even though it DID happen. The reason why is not relevant. I have said it is POSSIBLE for my son to have missed something, but i have looked around the menus and all locations and there are no pointers.

You didn't mention your son, you said that you read somewhere that if you didn't complete a side mission in a certain time then you can't do it again. Which is exactly what I said was wrong and doesn't happen and now you know why it doesn't happen.


4) If there is not the slightest trace of something incomplete while there are still missions left over that we can't access, then, call it what you like, but i call it broken.

That is technically a problem of interface. The side mission works perfectly and is accessed at hand. Ergo, not broken.

Markaccus
03-24-2015, 03:24 PM
You didn't mention your son, you said that you read somewhere that if you didn't complete a side mission in a certain time then you can't do it again. Which is exactly what I said was wrong and doesn't happen and now you know why it doesn't happen.



That is technically a problem of interface. The side mission works perfectly and is accessed at hand. Ergo, not broken.

I did mention my son, in that very post. Go back and read it again.

So, you are saying the side content is not broken, but the interface to it is? Well thats pretty pedantic isnt it? If you cant interface properly with something, then i would say its generally broken.

All in all, my original response to you was aimed at your instant dismissal of what i said, since I had already read about the issue, and then experienced it when my son played. The issue happened, And there is no proof that a hammer was forgotten, thats just a POSSIBLE reason, not definitive. Just don't tell me i am making things up.