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View Full Version : Ahh, I finally figured out my problems with gunnery..



TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 11:47 AM
Well, for the longest time (I haven't posted in a while) I thought I just really, really sucked at gunnery.

I finally decided to tweak my joystick a bit in the input menu, and never actually knew what deadband, and filter did.

So, I decided to find out. WOW, 7 filter, and 23 deadband on pitch, 5 deadband, and 5 filter on roll, and 9 filter, and 3 deadband on yaw..

It's amazing how much of a difference this has made. No more insane jumps just by barely touching the joystick. It's all smooth, and easy to fly.


However, my calibration seems to be off, for some reason.. I've recalibrated many times, but it still does it.

When the joystick is centered, and not being touched, my plane in-game slightly has rudders left, slightly leans left, and slightly raises the nose. It's not a serious problem, but it ruins any chance of being a bomber I might have had.

It sometimes fubars my attacks, as well. Anyone know how to fix this?


P.S. - I use a cyborg 3d gold, and in input, I used the joystick configuration Oleg provided in the patchnotes for the latest IL2FB patch . If there are any better for this particular joystick, I'd be more than appreciative to learn of them.

Thanks.

TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 11:47 AM
Well, for the longest time (I haven't posted in a while) I thought I just really, really sucked at gunnery.

I finally decided to tweak my joystick a bit in the input menu, and never actually knew what deadband, and filter did.

So, I decided to find out. WOW, 7 filter, and 23 deadband on pitch, 5 deadband, and 5 filter on roll, and 9 filter, and 3 deadband on yaw..

It's amazing how much of a difference this has made. No more insane jumps just by barely touching the joystick. It's all smooth, and easy to fly.


However, my calibration seems to be off, for some reason.. I've recalibrated many times, but it still does it.

When the joystick is centered, and not being touched, my plane in-game slightly has rudders left, slightly leans left, and slightly raises the nose. It's not a serious problem, but it ruins any chance of being a bomber I might have had.

It sometimes fubars my attacks, as well. Anyone know how to fix this?


P.S. - I use a cyborg 3d gold, and in input, I used the joystick configuration Oleg provided in the patchnotes for the latest IL2FB patch . If there are any better for this particular joystick, I'd be more than appreciative to learn of them.

Thanks.

Aero_Shodanjo
06-28-2004, 11:58 AM
My positive thinking about it is that it has something to do about modelling propeller driven plane's physic. Correct me if im wrong, but in other threads I think I also read that the faster you go in a plane then the wing will generate more lift = nose up. Therefore the aileron trim is needed to keep the plane fly straight.

But on the otherside, I do wonder too if it's because something goes wrong with my joystick or not....

"Air Power, ...Its mistery is half its power."

TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 12:09 PM
Nah, happens in every plane, in every game, etc etc..

Playing BF42 it's pretty bad trying to fly, lol.

F19_Ob
06-28-2004, 12:19 PM
look in the ingame joystick settings , or input or what it is called.

If u dont touch the stick there should bee no rudder input visible on the display.

Now test this:
push stick to both sides and see if there is any rudder input while using ailereon and then the same using elevator.
If it shows input in rudder when doing this the stick may be faulty or not calibrated.
Seems to be an Usual problem with logitech sticks and the one I have cant be calibrated manually (Logitech freedom2.4) When I have smashed mine (in the usual manner) and returned it to a store, I'll buy something else I think.

other than that the plane ingame may pull slightly to one side but this wont affect shooting in fb.

p1ngu666
06-28-2004, 12:24 PM
trim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

F19_Ob
06-28-2004, 12:30 PM
yes if there isnt any fault on your stick then just use trim, in this case rudder trim ( if the plane u fly has adjustable ruddertrim). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 01:08 PM
Nope, no rudder movement (except when I kinda turn the stick a bit) when I do either of those.

horseback
06-28-2004, 01:23 PM
The fault is in your trim, not your joystick. The faster you go, the more your nose will tend to rise--you need elevator trim dialed in for nose-down. Remember though, as you slow down, the nose will tend to drop, and you'll need to add nose-up trim

You say your aircraft tends to roll left, and I suspect that the issue is torque-solved by rudder trim and a dash of aileron trim, or in the case of the 109 and 190, by slight applications of rudder. As you increase throttle, torque effects go up, so you can be going like a bat out of he11 with 0 throttle and 0 torque, and need to adjust trim for that condition.

Generally speaking, neutral trim is set for each aircraft's cruise speed, so you add your trim as you vary from that .

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

patch_adams
06-28-2004, 01:45 PM
The aces use all 100 settings for the pitch.

BpGemini
06-28-2004, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Ob:
look in the ingame joystick settings , or input or what it is called.

If u dont touch the stick there should bee no rudder input visible on the display.

Now test this:
push stick to both sides and see if there is any rudder input while using ailereon and then the same using elevator.
If it shows input in rudder when doing this the stick may be faulty or not calibrated.
Seems to be an Usual problem with logitech sticks and the one I have cant be calibrated manually (Logitech freedom2.4) When I have smashed mine (in the usual manner) and returned it to a store, I'll buy something else I think.

other than that the plane ingame may pull slightly to one side but this wont affect shooting in fb.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The Logi Freedom automatically calibrates.

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F19_Ob
06-28-2004, 04:32 PM
Thnx Bpgemini, but I know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I shoulda' said that too.

I thought my stick also was a bit touchy or flimsy So I started with setting down the 2 first parameters on all 3 axes Rudder, aileron and elevator and the rest on a climbing scale with minor variation.....so if u dont solve your little prob "theJoystick", u might want to restart with doing this.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

AFJMantis
06-28-2004, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by patch_adams:
The aces use all 100 settings for the pitch.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And people wonder why the plane in front of you does warp lag manouvres when you get on its six, too much input for the game to calculate fast enough= warp fish flop BS.

Locust_
06-28-2004, 08:38 PM
Trim out the AC

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/p38loco1sig.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Screaming in Pain over the Insanity<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

œ L ˜ ӡ

Locust_
06-28-2004, 08:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AFJMantis:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by patch_adams:
The aces use all 100 settings for the pitch.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No thats Total BS!!!!!!!!!!

If some Virtualjock told you hes an ace & uses 100 acrose the bord hes lying to you or an idiot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/p38loco1sig.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Screaming in Pain over the Insanity<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

œ L ˜ ӡ

WTE_Galway
06-28-2004, 08:48 PM
i think the "100 across the board" thing is a joke

a bit like sending the apprentice to find a left handed screw driver or striped paint


you would need a long throw flight yoke to have any control at all with those settings

TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 08:48 PM
What's the best way to setup flight trims?

I don't have them bound, and also, I have a HORRIBLE problem with viewkeys. My joystick only sports an 8 button HAT, and that covers up, down, left, right, upleft, upright, downleft, downright..

I need frontup, leftup, rightup, backright up, backleftup, etc etc...

I lose visuals on planes in a matter of seconds if they do anything spiffy, and vs a 109, spiffy things happen much too often. I've tried using the numpad, but it's way across the board, and feels funky using, and it also limits my throttle control, as well as my other keyboard-usefull commands, so I dunno what to do...


Oh, and padlock messes me up pretty bad.

Tater-SW-
06-28-2004, 09:24 PM
with an 8 way hat snap views, I set a single key (the main trigger, oddly---I use the thumb trigger as my primary) to "look up." I then press up, plus the hat direction I want. I like a system where all my views are on one hand since I have physical feedback where I'm looking---I never look some direction and don't know what way I'm looking, even if my FOV is zoomed in.

So if you are interested in the 17 directions 8 around, 8 around and up a notch, and straight up, you're gold. (you can always set rear or forward hat to instruments).

tater

TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 09:32 PM
Hmm.. I think I might try binding shift keys to the hat so that I can do all that.

Thanks, guy, you inspired me =)


Shazbot! You can't bind shift+hat ! Hmm.. I dunno, I guess I'll have to mess with it.

Locust_
06-28-2004, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
i think the "100 across the board" thing is a joke

a bit like sending the apprentice to find a left handed screw driver or striped paint


you would need a long throw flight yoke to have any control at all with those settings<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL rgr that

Ud need a Shovel on a spring

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/p38loco1sig.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Screaming in Pain over the Insanity<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

œ L ˜ ӡ

TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 10:11 PM
Ok, so what's the best joystick out there right now?

I've kinda had my eyes on a saitek evo as an alternative to my cyborg 3d gold. I like saitek joysticks, but anything that's stable, will last a LONG time, has a twisty handle for rudders, and enough buttons to get me through IL2 will be fine.

My current one has 4 buttons (14, actually) that I use constantly, and the other ones I don't really use at all, due to their akward positioning.

So, 4 buttons + a HAT, and a throttle would be fine.

WTE_Galway
06-28-2004, 10:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheJoyStick:
Ok, so what's the best joystick out there right now?

I've kinda had my eyes on a saitek evo as an alternative to my cyborg 3d gold. I like saitek joysticks, but anything that's stable, will last a LONG time, has a twisty handle for rudders, and enough buttons to get me through IL2 will be fine.

My current one has 4 buttons (14, actually) that I use constantly, and the other ones I don't really use at all, due to their akward positioning.

So, 4 buttons + a HAT, and a throttle would be fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I swear by the MS FFB2 but its pretty hard to get these days

the FFB makes stall control a cinch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheJoyStick
06-28-2004, 10:46 PM
phew.. 239$.. That's about 170$ out of my range =)

There are some on E-Bay for 5-71, but I don't trust E-Bay.

Tully__
06-29-2004, 03:46 AM
I use Saitek X-45 and love it. Evo is good also.

As it seems dollars are not plentiful for you, also look at Thrustmaster, they're not too expensive. Should your finances improve, check out the CH Products (http://www.chproducts.com/) range.

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Salut
Tully

horseback
06-29-2004, 07:51 AM
Stick-

For your trim settings, I'd recommend reassigning the arrow keys on your keyboard to elevator and rudder trim--just the arrows, no shift or ctl/alt nonsense, a single key each for nose up, nose down, left rudder and right rudder trim right where you know where they are without confusion.

As for your "Look Up" key, why not your space key? You already have a trigger on your stick and again, if you want to look up + wherever, you don't want to have to look at the keyboard to find one key out of 50-odd. The Space key is easy to find by touch.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

TheJoyStick
06-30-2004, 01:07 AM
Wow... It's so simple... Bind spacebar to "look up"

I can't believe I never thought of that, and yet, it works so perfectly..

Thank you so much =)


-EDIT- Holy ****, I can dive bomb!