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92SqnGCJimbo
04-27-2004, 04:49 PM
THIS IS ABOUT RAMMING WITH THE ME109 NOT SHOOTING IT
is it me or does the strengths of the 109 lie not in its speed but in its stregnth i mean this thing takes more punishnment than a sturmovik. i was recently playing online in a b17 (not an easy plane to knowck down with a me109 f2) the me109 pilot had run outta ammo and was clearly trying to ram so i dodged the best i could. the next thing i knew i lost my whole port wing cause this guy had clipped my with his tips.
i decided to test this and flew a sturmovik into a head on with a me109 and the sturmovik disintergrated while the messierschmitt of my m8 flew off with this black dots on the wing (these were caused by ramming and not shooting) that shows its been hit by small calibre fire. i procedded to use nearly all the other planes in il-2 fb and aep in this matter and the same thing happened again and again religously.
so can we please have this fixed or is thier any way i could do it. (apart from dodge them better)
until that time comes though i am officially giving this plane 9 bumps out of 10 for being this weeks uber noob plane lol
(they still drop like flies when they dont ram mind and im behind em lol)
PLEASE READ THIS POST IT IS CONCERNING RAMMING NOT ABOUT SHOOTING SO PLEASE DONT POST ANY THING ELSE ABOUT SHOOTING THE ME109 I AM VERY WELL AWARE THAT IT GOES DOWN EASY WHEN SHOT. my point is it seems to be indistructible when u ram with or against it. i was wandering if n e 1 else had noticed

[This message was edited by jimbolina25 on Wed April 28 2004 at 12:14 PM.]

[This message was edited by jimbolina25 on Wed April 28 2004 at 12:15 PM.]

[This message was edited by jimbolina25 on Wed April 28 2004 at 12:19 PM.]

92SqnGCJimbo
04-27-2004, 04:49 PM
THIS IS ABOUT RAMMING WITH THE ME109 NOT SHOOTING IT
is it me or does the strengths of the 109 lie not in its speed but in its stregnth i mean this thing takes more punishnment than a sturmovik. i was recently playing online in a b17 (not an easy plane to knowck down with a me109 f2) the me109 pilot had run outta ammo and was clearly trying to ram so i dodged the best i could. the next thing i knew i lost my whole port wing cause this guy had clipped my with his tips.
i decided to test this and flew a sturmovik into a head on with a me109 and the sturmovik disintergrated while the messierschmitt of my m8 flew off with this black dots on the wing (these were caused by ramming and not shooting) that shows its been hit by small calibre fire. i procedded to use nearly all the other planes in il-2 fb and aep in this matter and the same thing happened again and again religously.
so can we please have this fixed or is thier any way i could do it. (apart from dodge them better)
until that time comes though i am officially giving this plane 9 bumps out of 10 for being this weeks uber noob plane lol
(they still drop like flies when they dont ram mind and im behind em lol)
PLEASE READ THIS POST IT IS CONCERNING RAMMING NOT ABOUT SHOOTING SO PLEASE DONT POST ANY THING ELSE ABOUT SHOOTING THE ME109 I AM VERY WELL AWARE THAT IT GOES DOWN EASY WHEN SHOT. my point is it seems to be indistructible when u ram with or against it. i was wandering if n e 1 else had noticed

[This message was edited by jimbolina25 on Wed April 28 2004 at 12:14 PM.]

[This message was edited by jimbolina25 on Wed April 28 2004 at 12:15 PM.]

[This message was edited by jimbolina25 on Wed April 28 2004 at 12:19 PM.]

Capt.LoneRanger
04-27-2004, 05:00 PM
Sounds weird.

It happens *sometimes* when you play online, that one aircraft is completely destroyed, the other barely damaged, after ramming. That is due to lag or lucky hit. Some parts of an airplane are much stronger than others.

On the other hand, if you fired head on, the IL2 and many other planes use mainly wingmounted weapons. If you shoot very late and have a convergence of 200+, most of the projectiles miss your opponent.
The 109, except the Emils, have fuselage mounted guns & cannons. They concentrate their fire on a smaller area. So, you don't have the spray and convergence-problems in these a/c.

That's the same for P38/39/63, yaks and several other planes. You should take this into consideration, before claiming any plane is more armored than I16/I153 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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VF-19
04-27-2004, 05:01 PM
"More punishement than a Sturmovik"? Please... A Me-109 will not last long at all if you target the engine. Most of the time in head on passes in the QMB, I can set the engine either on fire, smoking severely, or stopped entirely (seized) with small caliber machine guns (ie 7.62 shots). I think most of your shots aren't hitting anything vital.

A sturmovik's engine (along with other vital components) is armour protected, and is not as likely to start burining in head on passes.

92SqnGCJimbo
04-27-2004, 05:03 PM
oh no m8
this was without firing just ramming and the test i did with my m8 over a lan (uber fast) meant that there was no lag present. and i got the same esult with it everytime. so it must be the me109

BlitzPig_DDT
04-27-2004, 05:20 PM
Another redwhiner upset that he can't down one of the most fragile planes in the game, or, another troll, trying to stir the schiznit again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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diomedes33
04-27-2004, 05:21 PM
that's funny last night, I had a midair collision with a zero, me in a k4.

Zero seemed undamaged. Probably couldn't fly too well.

I exploded into a ball of fire.

Silk and Wood must be pretty strong stuff.


Theres more to lag than ping, packet loss can really effect it too (i.e. the packet that has the info about the bullet). And not to mention the phase of the moon, and state of the world's economy.

Seriously though, I've found that lag really messes with you. I've emptied my entire ammo into a 51 and didn't seem effected one time. Then the next time I was online, I engaged a 51 and tapped it in the wing with a 20mm and it tore off.

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LeadSpitter_
04-27-2004, 06:13 PM
any 109 to the g6 takes not many hits to down but the g10 to k4 seem to take massive punishment online and off

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Resident_Jock
04-27-2004, 06:16 PM
Yeah, I have to disagree here. The 109 gets a couple holes in the wing and starts becoming a major slug. Not only that but the engine armor is paper and the engine goes quickly (if not immediately) if hit in the right place. The key of being a good 109 pilot is surprise. If he doesn't have time or energy to get you in his sights then you have already won.

For some reason the K4 is a bit of a tank in comparison...

xenios
04-27-2004, 06:35 PM
I've seen this a lot online--one plane ramming another with no damage while the rammed plane is destroyed. It has nothing to do with the 109 (which remains one of the more fragile planes in the sim) or any plane type. It's such a well known issue in AEP that I know a few people who ram other players intentionally, knowing that usually no harm will come to them. Again, this an AEP issue; this did not nearly as frequently in previous versions.

Slammin_
04-27-2004, 07:29 PM
Seems to have more to do with who was the agressor at the last point in time before impact that determines the likelyhood of surviving a collision intact. The one with his finger on the trigger seems to blow up 99% of the time.

Makes sense, and is a reasonable compromise too, I think.

DONB3397
04-27-2004, 08:28 PM
My experience lines up with Leadspitter's comments. In this sim, the 109E-4 through G-6 are vulnerable to engine hits. They may not go down or flame immediately, but the engine will sieze. Very few explosions unless you hit them head on in the engine. G10s and K4s seem to take more to damage.

How do I know? My favorite ride has been the G-2 and G-6. Duh.

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Tully__
04-27-2004, 11:36 PM
Collision detection is a bit odd. It's not so much to do with what plane you're flying as it is to do with the relative speed and angles of the colliding planes. Effectively, the game tries to give more damage to the perpetrator of a ram than to the victim. It frequently doesn't get it right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
04-28-2004, 12:59 AM
the 109 is one of the easiest planes to down
try it your self with a P51/P47 and use a little deflection and you will see that it only takes about 4/6 .50call rounds and the 109 is out of the fight ANY 109 will get either its engine Kaput,starts smoking (means also engine=dead in 2 minutes) ore all controlls are gone.
as we all know the 109 cannot take that much damage in real life
and i think the 109s DM pre AEP was spot on and it still got the closest DM
compared to all allied planes wich can take star wars like punishment.
Ofcourse this is the AEP DM bug wich will be fixed be sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


PS if anyone got a problem shooting down 109s you better start working on your
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Stalker58
04-28-2004, 01:37 AM
Me109 (at least E,F/G2,6 is one of the most fragile AC in the sim. Often only ONE 20 mm hit is enough to disable it altogether (motor smoking, controls unusable). If one wing is even slightly wounded then you can forget any combat and RTB if you still can...

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

269GA-Veltro
04-28-2004, 01:45 AM
Me 109 is better now, but what about Spitfire? Waiting for patch, too many iron birds now.

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pourshot
04-28-2004, 01:50 AM
From the perspective of a VVS flyer I dont think the 109 is a iron bird, I also dont think it's made of paper it seems pretty normal to me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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F19_Ob
04-28-2004, 03:34 AM
I started out with the 109 when it came out and normally a few hits is enough to criple it beyond fightingconditon. But those freak things sometimes happen to all planes.

Franzen
04-28-2004, 03:45 AM
I usually fly 109's, at least 95% of the time. From my experience they are made of glass, paper, and scotch tape. When I run out of ammo I like to ram the enemy. The only problem is, I usually take the majority of the damage. Sorry dude, no iron 109's in this sim.

Fritz Franzen

Skalgrim
04-28-2004, 04:14 AM
fly sometime p51 online,

my prefer target, when fly p51 is 109, because very easy to downed compare with other plane

think 109 is not toughly bird

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Wed April 28 2004 at 03:24 AM.]

SUPERAEREO
04-28-2004, 04:48 AM
I don't think the 109 is a tank at all, the wings come off quite easily with a good burst of .50 caliber, IMHO.

S!


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Chuck Yaeger

mortoma
04-28-2004, 08:45 AM
The 109 is not in any way, shape or form a tank!!
It's the most fragile plane in the game overall.
One single hit from a bomber gunner can put you out of action. In RL the 109 was known to be somewhat fragile but it's overdone in FB and if anything they should toughen it up a little for gameplay sake. After all we want a balanced game, don't we? I say make it tougher, not more fragile.

Curly_109
04-28-2004, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbolina25:
is it me or does the strengths of the 109 lie not in its speed but in its stregnth i mean this thing takes more punishnment than a sturmovik. i was recently playing online in a b17 (not an easy plane to knowck down with a me109 f2) the me109 pilot had run outta ammo and was clearly trying to ram so i dodged the best i could. the next thing i knew i lost my whole port wing cause this guy had clipped my with his tips.
i decided to test this and flew a sturmovik into a head on with a me109 and the sturmovik disintergrated while the messierschmitt of my m8 flew off with this black dots on the wing that shows its been hit by small calibre fire. i procedded to use nearly all the other planes in il-2 fb and aep in this matter and the same thing happened again and again religously.
so can we please have this fixed or is thier any way i could do it. (apart from dodge them better)
until that time comes though i am officially giving this plane 9 bumps out of 10 for being this weeks uber noob plane lol
(they still drop like flies when they dont ram mind and im behind em lol)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe you are right and that happens online... but my offline experience has nothing to do with things you just say.

1 x 7.62mm bullet from IL-2 rear gunner(with words=one bullet) in nose of your bf109F2 and say goodbye to your engine. not to mention that you have to be hell of a shooter with F2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

i found Bf109 to be one of the most vulnerable fighters in the game, especially F & G series(for instance LA is another story).

as far as ramming are concerned, i have no good experience with that actions http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif, but one time when flying MiG3 i collided head on with Me109 and break his wing i escape without rudder(tail) but managed to get home. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
04-28-2004, 10:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbolina25:
is it me or does the strengths of the 109 lie not in its speed but in its stregnth i mean this thing takes more punishnment than a sturmovik. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a troll post...or the after effects of a botched self-lobotomy.

Norris

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CaptainGelo
04-28-2004, 10:50 AM
that is wrong..heh, few hits and BF is smoking...

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