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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:40 AM
I thought tail-less jets were unflyable without constant computer trim?

---
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori."

-- Wilfred Owen,
"Dulce et Decorum est"

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:40 AM
I thought tail-less jets were unflyable without constant computer trim?

---
"My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori."

-- Wilfred Owen,
"Dulce et Decorum est"

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:45 AM
At high speeds, yes. All wings had controle problems at high speeds. But Nothrop and Horten did a great job in both designs.

Gib

M.Beebe wrote:
-
-
- I thought tail-less jets were unflyable without
- constant computer trim?
-
----
- "My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
- To children ardent for some desperate glory,
- The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
- Pro patria mori."
-
--- Wilfred Owen,
- "Dulce et Decorum est"



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:47 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- At high speeds, yes. All wings had controle
- problems at high speeds. But Nothrop and Horten did
- a great job in both designs.

That's what I thought too.

Any more interesting info on the GO? I don't know much about it.




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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:57 AM
It only had a few powered test flights, but Oleg says he has enough data. It was controle by little air brakes on the tips of the wings as a rudder. The engines were intergrated into the thick wings for great aerodynamics. The center portion of the aircraft was metal, and outer was wood. It was VERY fast and could climb extreamly well. It did not have a pressurised cockpit so the pilot had to wear a very bulky pressure suit for high alt flights. Very interesting aircraft. If you like flyings wings, also check out the Northrup B-35. Developed in 1940 to take off from the US, bomb Berlin, and fly back. MASSIVE payload, 400MPH top speed, and 20 .50 cal defensive guns. This thing would have been devistating.

Gib

PriK wrote:
- Gibbage1 wrote:
-- At high speeds, yes. All wings had controle
-- problems at high speeds. But Nothrop and Horten did
-- a great job in both designs.
-
- That's what I thought too.
-
- Any more interesting info on the GO? I don't know
- much about it.
-
-
-
-
-
- <center><img
- src="http://members.rogers.com/4xtreme/chbanner.jp
- g">



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:07 AM
Yeah it would have been the ultimate bomber. Way better than the B29 it seems.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:09 AM
tho wasnt it magnesium alloy, the british found out the hard way not to use magnesium alloy in battleships.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:25 AM
Anyone burn Magnesium strips in highschool chemistry class?

WOW

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:46 AM
Heuristic_ALgor wrote:
- Anyone burn Magnesium strips in highschool chemistry
- class?
-
- WOW


I did http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Gib, what is the top spped of the GO and what was its armament?

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:50 AM
I dont remember the top speed of the GO. It will be the fastest aircraft in IL2, 2nd only to the Me-163. As for armerment, 2x Mk 103's.

Gib

Dylan_D wrote:
-
- Heuristic_ALgor wrote:
-- Anyone burn Magnesium strips in highschool chemistry
-- class?
--
-- WOW
-
-
- I did http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.
-
- Gib, what is the top spped of the GO and what was
- its armament?
-
-
-
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:26 PM
gibbage wasnt the horten the fastest jet the p80 and me262 couldnt catch it, I dont have the statistics but remember seeing them somewhere before cfs3 was released


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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:37 PM
According to Monogram Publications, Close-up #12, the Horten did 950kpm(590mph) @ SL and 977kph(607mph) @ 12km. These are for un-armed a/c (V3).

In a chart for speed with average flying weight, the speed varied from 850kpm at SL to ~875kpm at 4km and 800kpm at 12km.
A chart with TO weight starts at 14m/s at SL to 4m/s at 10km.

Gib another name for those 'air brakes' are spoilers.

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Message Edited on 07/26/0308:41AM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 05:49 PM
I'm not sure how the control surfaces are arranged on the G--229, but "spoilers" are typically arranged on the upper surface of a wing, and are used for roll control, not yaw. In fact, one of their benefits is that they DON'T produce the adverse yaw associated with conventional ailerons (they're also more useful at high speeds.)
What Gibbage is talking about (and what is used on the B-2 for yaw control) are called "drag rudders", though "air brakes" also describe them correctly. In this case, the ailerons are split, and the two surfaces can either work in the same direction as ailerons (both going up or down), in opposition as speed brakes (when the brakes on the left and the right wings open together), or as drag rudders (when one wings brake opens more than the other.) The A-10 has this arrangement for its speed brakes, but can't use them differentially as a yaw control (not a big problem for the A-10 since it has conventional rudders.)
As far as materials go, magnesium works fine for airframes (though it's expensive.) Aluminium burns really well, too (this is what solid rocket fuel is made of), but in either case, you'd have to get it hot enough (easy to do with thin strips, harder with skins or wing spars) that the heat would be a problem long before you'd have to worry about the airframe burning. Making ships out of the stuff is another story, since you have to take damage control into account. Part of the problem with the HMS Sheffield was that the Exocet motor set the aluminium superstructure on fire (the warhead never exploded, IIRC.) That heat would have caused structural failure in an aircraft (and the crew would have bailed long before the metal started burning) but the Sheffield (and most ships) are designed with more reserve strengh than a plane, and survived the impact. The crew couldn't put out the aluminium fire though, and had to abandon ship. Several British warships had this problem in the Falklands, so I hope I'm not mixing up the Sheffield's fate with another of those ships.
Flying wings are stable as long as the CG is ahead of the aerodynamic center by a sufficient margin. With moderate sweepback and a forward CG this isn't a problem. If by "high speed" you mean transonic, yeah you'd have a problem there. The center of lift starts moving from the 1/4 chord to the 1/2 chord. In conventional aircraft this makes them more stable, but increases trim drag as the tail has to push down harder to counter the aft shifting center of lift. In a tailless aircraft, there might not be enough pitch authority to keep the nose up. Yaw control would also get pretty sporty transsonic, too.

Blotto

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:13 PM
Blotto, are you an aerospace engineer or something?

Very interesting data you gave us there.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:27 PM
PriK wrote:
- -
- Any more interesting info on the GO? I don't know
- much about it.


Some links:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/go229.htm

http://www.hotel.wineasy.se/ipms/stuff_eng_detail_hoix.htm

http://www.tgplanes.com/planfile.asp?idplane=48

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:30 PM
here is an interesting link about the Northrop flying wings;

http://www.yourzagi.com/history.htm

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:58 PM
Hey Gib, i was just wondering if the cannons it has are good, and if it'll have enough ammo to shoot things and take them out...opposite of the B-1, which has enough ammo to let the bombers know you're there

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:28 PM
M.Beebe wrote:
-
- I thought tail-less jets were unflyable without
- constant computer trim?

Not sure, but, on that note you might be interested in the Northrop N9M-B Flying Wing

http://www.planesoffame.org/Special%20Features.htm#Northrop%20N9M-B%20Flying%20Wing

It's says this one was build in 1944, but when I went out to Chino when they were restoring it years ago the sign said it was... or at least on of them was build in 1937. Thus the horton and northrop boys where hard at work.



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:35 PM
Blottogg rocket fuel uses powered aluminum, just to keep the record straight.

It was the powered aluminum used in the 'paint' of the Hindenburg that caused the rapid fire advance from the tail.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:12 AM
Do a little research on the X-4. Rather interesting aerodynamic findings done in 1949 when they tried to get a flying wing design to go super-sonic. Once it hit trans-sonic it became HIGHLY unstable. Its becuase of the efficiancy of the flying wing design. It produces to much lift at high speed so it begins to porpus up and down wildly. They said the Me-163 had the same problem at high speeds.

Gib

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