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View Full Version : A few questions for Tempest freaks



Korolov
02-15-2004, 01:05 AM
Modeling a Tempest right now (no, not for FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ) and came up with a few questions on it:

Could bombs and rockets be mounted at the same time? If so, how much ordiance could be carried?

How well did it roll? Was it slow or fast? Pilot accounts would be handy here.

How well did it turn?

Acceleration?

Top SL speed?

Thanks in advance for any info.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Korolov
02-15-2004, 01:05 AM
Modeling a Tempest right now (no, not for FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ) and came up with a few questions on it:

Could bombs and rockets be mounted at the same time? If so, how much ordiance could be carried?

How well did it roll? Was it slow or fast? Pilot accounts would be handy here.

How well did it turn?

Acceleration?

Top SL speed?

Thanks in advance for any info.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

arcadeace
02-15-2004, 01:29 AM
I think the Tempest is great. This is a good link

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/tempest.htm

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1073167658.jpg

Korolov
02-15-2004, 01:37 AM
Bump before I go to bed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Aaron_GT
02-15-2004, 03:04 AM
AFAIK it was passed for rockets OR bombs (much
like the Typhoon) but never carried rockets in
WW2 at least.

Aaron_GT
02-15-2004, 03:05 AM
Top SL speed on 100 octane - 392 mph for
Tempest V (series 2 I think).

nixon-fiend.
02-15-2004, 03:48 AM
Where's icefire?

hop2002
02-15-2004, 06:08 AM
I don't think the Tempest carried rockets during the war.

There are pictures of Typhoons carrying a mixed load of 2 rockets and one drop tank on each wing, so 2 rockets and 1 bomb should be possible.

There was also a doubled rocket loadout for the Typhoon, with each rocket rail carrying an extra rocket slung underneath, for a total of 16 rockets.

There's a test of an early Tempest V series I at http://home.epix.net/~cap14/tp.html

Bear in mind it's carried out at 8.5lbs boost, which yielded about 2050 hp at sea level, and the Tempest went up to 11 lbs later, which yielded over 2300 hp at sea level. They probably went higher still, to 13lbs, which should give 2550 hp or so at sea level.

Chuck_Older
02-15-2004, 06:53 AM
This is all I can find, and it's on the Typhoon:

[text quoted from Little Friends ]

The Typhoon was the RAF's Thunderbolt. Though not so big, it was still very large and could deliver equally heavy punishment. But it never acheived the same degree of succes. Only one Typhoon from the 3,317 built survives, and this is a nonairworthy example in the RAF Museum at Hendon near London. Above 15 thousand feet the Typhoon's performance could not match that of the Spitfire, the aircraft it was intended to replace. There were problems with the Napier Sabre Engine and, more seriously, there were airframe structural failures. But the "Tiffie" is remembered fondly by many who flew it. One is Jimmy Kyle, once a 20 year old pilot with 197 Squadron.
"I first flew the Typhoon Mark IA, with the car door type hood, on Dec. 20, 1942, nine months after I had entered service with the RAF. The pilot sat high in the big Fighter. I stepped in and settled on the hard dinghy base attached to the parachute, which fitted into the bucket seat of the cockpit. I strapped in, clipped on the facemask, pugged in the RT and switched on the oxygen. With it's long nose, three prominent propeller blades, thick anhedral/dihedral wing, wide undercarriage, and four evenly spaced cannons, the Typhoon conveyed an impression of power and brute strength.
When settled in and feeling at ease, I started the engine with a bang. It could be tempermental. The 24 cylinder napier Sabre was provided with a Coffman starter used in conjunction with a Kigas primer. The amount of priming required depended on engine temperature and it was imperaitive to get the combination right to start the engine without delay. When the starter switch was thrown the engine would spring to life with a loud explosion, causing clouds of acrid exhaust smoke to stream from either side of the cowling. The smoke quickly thinned and disappeared as the engine warmed up with an even roar [Chuck's note- I'm not sure there is even a recording of a Napier Sabre 24 cylinder engine. I seem to recall someone was restoring either a Tempest or Typhoon, though].
I spent a few minutes checking temperatures and pressures. Noting all was well, retightening the primer, I waved 'chocks away' to the ground crew, released the brakes, rolled forward, checking that the brakes operated, and taxied slowly out for take-off.
Tense and excited, cautiously edging forward, I waited for take-off clearance and swung the nose into the wind and lined the plane up on the runway...positioning it dead center, completing the cockpit checks and revving the engine to clear it. I held hard on the brakes, then slowly released them and gradually opened the throttle to maximum take-off power.
As the stick was pushed forward and the tail unit lifted, there was an unpleasant tendancy for the aircraft to swing to starboard. This inherent swing could lead to eventual loss of control if application of the port rudder wasn't anticipated. Being aware of this inbuilt idiosyncrasy I gently fed in a fraction of port rudder slightly before the tail until was fully up, to prevent the swing.
The engine surged to a roar as the Typhoon hurtled down the runway. I checked all instruments, eased the control coulmn back and was airborne. Climbing out I was surprised at the ease of the take-off. Selecting 'wheels up' and the small amount of flap I used to offset undercarriage strain on the bumpy runway, I noted the green lights go on and then out, indicating undercarriage up, and settled the aircraft in the climb at the recommended speed of about 300 mph. The feeling of power and speed was marvelous. I quickly found myself at altitude and leveling out. I then put the aircraft and myslef to our respective limits.
I completed a series of aerobatics, stalls, slow rolls, loops, upward rolls, incipient spins and some barrel rolls on my way down. All the manuevers were easy to perform but I sustained high G loads I had not experienced before. The thrust of Gs pushed my sagging jaw and chin down to my chest, and the centrifugal forces drove my blood from my brain into my boots, my vision graying [Chuck's note- odd that he didn't say 'greying', must be the printer's spelling] and my legs feeling like lead. By easing the controls, I could in seconds return to normal if and when it became too hard to bear.
On returning to the circuit and slowing to a landing configuration, I carried out a normal continuous curved approach with wheels down and locked. Then, with full flap slected, I turned onto short final- a normal fighter approach, only this one being a little faster than most other aircraft at the time. The ground rushed up quickly. The approach speed in the turn was between 120 and 130 MPH, gradually reducing to 95, and further still when rounding out for touchdown at 75 MPH.
I landed safely and, quickly completing the after-landing checks without stopping, taxied back to the dispersal, exhilarated and pleased with the 30 minute flight. Stepping from the cockpit I jumped the the ground among eager faces awaiting my arrival. All were anxiously awaiting their turn to fly the Typhoon.
"How did it go?" they asked. "Marvelous," I said, explaining every detail of the trip to those around me. I then signed the authorization book, 'DCO. Duty Carried Out.' "

Mr. Kyle should have written some memoirs, with his incredible memory! (this book is from 1990)

Although concerning a Typhoon, Tempest should be similar in most respects.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

Chuck_Older
02-15-2004, 07:09 AM
I should have mentioned-
The Tempest was originally going to be the Typhoon II but ended up with many changes. The wing on the Tempest was more eliptical and of thinner chord. The forward fuselage was 53 cm longer to accomodate more fuel tankage because fuel tankage in the wing was compromised. The engine was a 2340 hp type and had wing leading edge radiators. The Tempest V prototype was first to fly, oddly, but the Tempest I had a Sabre IV engine and was faster, but Napier didn't fully come through with the engine for some reason. Max speed with Sabre IV- 466 mph (760 km/h) at 24,500 ft (7470m) Time to 15,000 ft (4755m) 4.25 min.

This may be sacrelige to the FW190 fans, but my memory tells me that allied pilots recount the Tempest rolling with the FW190 or in some cases, out-rolling it, depending on model 190. I'll try to find where I read that, must be here SOMEwhere, lol. I have a pile of ref. books by my PC for cars and WWII planes but I think I have some put away, too, I'll have to dig through the pile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
[data and paraphrased synopsis from Complete book of Fighters]

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

MandMs
02-15-2004, 07:15 AM
Read The Typhoon and Tempest Story by Thomas and Shores, ISBN 0-85368-878-8 and The Hawker Typhoon and Tempest by Mason, ISBN 0-946627-19-3.

VW-IceFire
02-15-2004, 07:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
Modeling a Tempest right now (no, not for FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ) and came up with a few questions on it:

Could bombs and rockets be mounted at the same time? If so, how much ordiance could be carried?

How well did it roll? Was it slow or fast? Pilot accounts would be handy here.

How well did it turn?

Acceleration?

Top SL speed?

Thanks in advance for any info.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bombs or rockets could be fitted to the Tempest V. Essentially the weaponry options are the same as the Typhoon wherein you can carry 2x500lb bombs, 8 rockets, and I think there was provision for a mix of rockets and fuel tanks (or presumably bombs) on the Typhoon. The Tempest V was fully approved to use rockets although it seems like it was never used (officially anyways) in combat. Reason for this is probably based around the availability of rockets getting priority on the Typhoon squadrons. The Tempest V was a much improved aircraft overall and they were used alot more for low and medium altitude fighter sweeps so while the Typhoon was a fighter turned fighter-bomber the Tempest V is more of a fighter-bomber turned back into a fighter.

According to the tactical trials (and what I can understand from some data I've seen) the Tempest V is an average roll rate at low speed but above 350 mph it can outroll the Bf 109 and the Spitfire. Since its using a similar wing type as the Mustang I can presume that its roll will mimic the Mustangs roughly in that its peak roll rate will be achieved close to its maximum speed. I was looking into if the aircraft had spring roll tabs installed and it appears that only some of the aircraft (mostly testbeds) had the spring tabs introduced. Likely the FB version won't have these modeled. Its not a fast roller but its not a slow one either. In general the pilot report states that the Tempest V (without spring tabs) is responsive to the controls so it should probaly reach its peak roll rate very quickly.

Turning on the Tempest V was slightly better than the FW190 and the Bf 109 and slightly worse than the Mustang (can't really find anything specific in numbers). It certainly cannot outturn the Spitfire.

Apparently its fast at acceleration...although that was in comparison to a Meteor Mark III. Lets put it this way...its got almost as much horsepower as the P-47 but without alot of the extra weight and the inherent aerodynamic efficiency of a inline engine (although the radiator intake is pretty big).

Maximum speed at Sea Level according to the chart that I have: 376mph (TAS) and 398mph (IAS). Thats apparently at combat power with 95% takeoff weight. According to the tactical trials the Tempest V is faster than the FW190's (and a bit faster than the Dora's), Spitfire Mark XIV, Bf 109G, and Mustang Mark III upto 20,000 ft where nearly all of those planes pull ahead. The differences in speed seem to range from being faster by 20-30 mph to 50mph with the Bf 109G (not sure which version they tested).

On the deck the Tempest can catch just about anything...and in an acceleration war with a jet fighter the Tempest can also beat them there. I am very much looking forward to flying these in the open dogfight servers against just about everyone...especially if they try and make a run for it. And when they do get in range the Tempest has arguably more firepower than any of the other fighters it would be flying against.
Most of the tests carried out (from what I can tell) for speed were also carried out without the use of the engine boost...so its probably faster than the speeds listed above.

There...thats probably most of what I know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I know alot of its not number based and more qualitative based but that seems to be largely whats available online.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

VW-IceFire
02-15-2004, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I should have mentioned-
The Tempest was originally going to be the Typhoon II but ended up with many changes. The wing on the Tempest was more eliptical and of thinner chord. The forward fuselage was 53 cm longer to accomodate more fuel tankage because fuel tankage in the wing was compromised. The engine was a 2340 hp type and had wing leading edge radiators. The Tempest V prototype was first to fly, oddly, but the Tempest I had a Sabre IV engine and was faster, but Napier didn't fully come through with the engine for some reason. Max speed with Sabre IV- 466 mph (760 km/h) at 24,500 ft (7470m) Time to 15,000 ft (4755m) 4.25 min.

This may be sacrelige to the FW190 fans, but my memory tells me that allied pilots recount the Tempest rolling with the FW190 or in some cases, out-rolling it, depending on model 190. I'll try to find where I read that, must be here SOMEwhere, lol. I have a pile of ref. books by my PC for cars and WWII planes but I think I have some put away, too, I'll have to dig through the pile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
[data and paraphrased synopsis from _Complete book of Fighters]_

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting the note about out rolling a FW190...according to tactical trials the Tempest V shouldn't be able to outroll the FW190 at any speed although it can outroll the Bf 109 and the Spitfire at about 350mph. If you have anything on if the aircraft was fitted with spring roll tabs or not that'd be useful!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Chuck_Older
02-15-2004, 07:38 AM
That's what I'm going to have to find out, so don't quote me on that anymore unless I can verify, lol

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

VW-IceFire
02-15-2004, 01:30 PM
Perhaps the Tempest was able to out turn the FW190 which it should be able to by a small amount. Once again, according to the tactical trials the Tempest at high speed (350mph) was able out outmanuver Bf 109's because at that speed the Tempest has better control authority than the 109 but that likely doesn't apply to the FW190 except in terms of turn circle. Not sure who would be able to turn tighter initially...all in all the Dora 9 (and the Anton 9 to a lesser extent) and Tempest are very closely matched.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Korolov
02-15-2004, 01:52 PM
Thanks for the info gents, much appreciated!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

pinche_bolillo
02-15-2004, 04:56 PM
well, just going on my limited faded memory, the tempest had a climb rate very close to the bf-109k up to 18,000ft. 4,700+ fpm initial. top speed on the deck was around 390 mph tas which puts it in the top 3 fastest prop planes on the deck from ww 2. its peak spead was 442 mph tas at around 18,000ft. It had one of the highest critical mach speeds of ww 2 era aircraft. I heard similar stories about the tempests turn ability. it was fair. it had 4 20mm hispanos. the only problem I can see that the tempest had was (I saw a chart a few years back at the aces high forum) it aparently had a poor rate of roll. also since it was designed as a low to medium altitude a/c it had super performance up to 18,000ft but above that altitude it fell off rapidly.

the tempest was my favorite ride (next to the 38 that is) at eaw. I almost always flew a tempest :O

P-38 geek hasta la muerte!

VW-IceFire
02-15-2004, 05:02 PM
Good man! Its definately an excellent ride.

I don't think the roll rate was considered terrible. The Typhoon's I think was only a little bit better than the A6M Zero (and thus maybe the Typhoons roll was more "terrible" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) but the Tempest redesigned wings and control surfaces gave it average roll ability. Like I said before...apparently better than the 109 and the Spitfire at speeds above 350 mph so there's probably a break even point where it rolls decently (like how the Mustang in FB rolls only at an average rate at low speeds and as soon as you punch up the speed it manuvers and rolls very well).

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Korolov
02-15-2004, 05:16 PM
Just hope we get rockets and bombs for it in the FB version, since I don't think we'll be seeing a flyable Typhoon anytime soon.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

VW-IceFire
02-15-2004, 05:31 PM
We might...the Omega Squadron bunch were/are working on a Typhoon. I sent them a high-res cockpit shot for reference to one of them a few weeks ago...apparently he was busy texturing the Typhoon.

Bombs AND Rockets have been modeled for the Tempest...they even made the Dev. Updates at one point.

Generate enough interest and I think the people who are doing these planes will know how badly we want them.

In the meantime, I'm trying to find that roll rate chart that I think SkyChimp posted (in reference to the P-47). Was there only a Typhoon on there or was there also a Tempest (amongst other aircraft).

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Chuck_Older
02-15-2004, 05:37 PM
I can't find the reference I was looking for, so I guess I sort of 'wished it up'! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

Korolov
02-15-2004, 05:42 PM
Really looking forward to the Tempest over the Typhoon, but the Typhoon saw more operational use, and would be more fitting for Med scenarios.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Chuck_Older
02-15-2004, 06:04 PM
I'd settle for either, really. Nice looking crate as the Brits might say. Supposed to make a terrific racket, too

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

VW-IceFire
02-15-2004, 07:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
Really looking forward to the Tempest over the Typhoon, but the Typhoon saw more operational use, and would be more fitting for Med scenarios.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As far as I know...only 3 Typhoons were ever sent to the Med and they were used for testing only. They had a modified intake that didn't look much different than the standard ones. Typhoons were reserved for the tactical airforce and low level interception duty in England and later Normandy and on. While it is true that the Typhoon saw more operational use...the Tempest from D-Day and on was very active. As soon as it was realized that there was little threat from a Luftwaffe bomber counter attack the Tempests were used over the continent clearing beaches and so on. Both were very busy from D-Day on...I'd love to have both since they are pretty different aircraft and ultimately used in somewhat different roles.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Korolov
02-15-2004, 11:38 PM
I had thought that Typhoons had been used in Africa, the Med, and Italy, but I guess I was wrong.

Anyways, heres a good Tempest site I found, full of info on it:

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/tempest.htm

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

MandMs
02-16-2004, 03:57 AM
The a/c R8889, R8891 and R8925 were assigned to the Mid East tests. DN323 and EJ906 replaced R8889 and R8925 due to accidents. They arrived 25 April 1943, flying out of LG106, El Daba. There was 19 different pilots who flew them when the trial were completed in Oct 1943. All were satisfied with the a/c. Only one other Typhoon went to the Mid East, MN290.

The Tempest rarely, if at all, carried bombs. It was used as a local air superiority fighter for low and mid altitudes. It was also used for armed recon missions.

There is only one Typhoon and Tempest left. Both are at the RAF Museum,Hendon, coded MN235(Typhoon) and NV778(Tempest).