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View Full Version : The thing that will slow down run-n-gun players and force realistic shootouts (IMO)



topeira1980
03-13-2015, 10:54 PM
the R6S team are trying to support a more methodical approach to shootouts in R6S and i think theee first thiing they need to implement in order to make firefights behave realistically is real gun handling. and i dont mean just recoil and upkick.
as someone who fired weapons in the military a little bit i understand that how hard it is to move and fire at the same time. what i feel most games get wrong is that shooting while moving is so inaccurate IRL that strafing and circling around an enemy while firing should not be a valid approach to a gun fight.

the gun bobs up and down severly if you walk and aim at the same time. this is why IRL shooting at medium distances is done when the shooter is stationary and behind cover - you need to stay steady and still be a hard target (concealed). since in most games its so easy to fire while strafing than ppl use the zig zagging technique to be a harder target and fire at the same time. in R6S videos it looks like moving barely affects aiming, which will result in fast moving and shooting instead of a cover based shootouts it SHOULD support in order to differentiate itself from the run-n-gun pack. also the leaning mechanics will not be used if its easier and better to strafe out and in of cover.

R6S should be closer to ARMA in gun handling in order to feel realistic and to represent the type or combat it wants to depict, IMO.

also changing movement directions(like from moving left then to right, or forward to backward) should result in a slight pause to convert innertia to the opposite direction. this should also result in a sudden and brief more sever bobbing of the gun.

i wonder if this matter is something UBI is concerned about.


funny enough, one of the games where i find gun handling to support what i just wrote is FC4. it had decent gun bobbing when moving and cover mechanics.... at least in SP.

what do you guys think about this matter?

SplashType
03-14-2015, 04:59 AM
they should do more of what they did on older rs games this one just seems like a poor mans csgo like now guns fire up haha im pretty sure guns fire all around not just up irl like why be like a bad game when they could just make it like a old rs game with gun handling

xB0NES
03-14-2015, 05:47 AM
they should do more of what they did on older rs games this one just seems like a poor mans csgo like now guns fire up haha im pretty sure guns fire all around not just up irl like why be like a bad game when they could just make it like a old rs game with gun handling
lol wtf. have you ever fired a gun?

topeira1980
03-14-2015, 09:35 AM
most ppl havent fired guns, mate. no need to patronize.

guns definitely kick up, and most have a particular side that the pull to on top of that.

another way gun handling is very different in games than in real life is that once you fire a gun and it kicks up (and to the side :-P) the gun doesnt "re-center" itself to where you aimed before firing. now its pointing in a slightly different direction. however this is something i completely agree that should not be a part of a game. definitely not with a controller. i think it's a little too much to ask from a player (to re-aim after every burst of fire).

but losing accuracy with movement, IMO, is a must.

Sandm4N230
03-14-2015, 05:21 PM
I guess splash was making a reference to some guns with a vertical kick but when you shoot sometimes it also goes on the side, in the end in a diagonal. (I already shot a weapon and this happened)

PaulGranger
03-14-2015, 10:18 PM
I agree with you, also...I think there should be a difference in reloading. When I say that I mean the difference between a Tactical reload and a fast reload.

Maybe something like this...

When you tactical reload, you retain your magazine and that gives you the ability to receive more ammo in the future of the match? When you quick reload you lose your mag but reload much faster but lose the opportunity to get more ammo for that mag in the rest of the game?

Just an idea, any thoughts?

SplashType
03-15-2015, 06:41 AM
I guess splash was making a reference to some guns with a vertical kick but when you shoot sometimes it also goes on the side, in the end in a diagonal. (I already shot a weapon and this happened)

yeah i was refering to guns with vertical kick and to the guy who said have i shot a gun yes i have i shot a few then went to the sides and a few then went upwards excluding snipers but yeah i do agree with you though op they should make it more realistic

MeanroxFR
03-15-2015, 12:44 PM
R6S should be closer to ARMA in gun handling in order to feel realistic and to represent the type or combat it wants to depict, IMO.


I really agree ! :)

Cortexian
03-15-2015, 10:26 PM
As someone who goes to the range about twice a week, and is currently practicing to get into competitive "three gun" shooting, I can tell you that all different models of guns have a different recoil "kick" to them. Visual recoil in games is a visual representation of what shooters like to call "muzzle climb". Every time you fire, the gun "kicks" up and slightly to the left or the right. On rifles and some sub machine guns, there's usually minimal left-right kick when holding the firearm properly. Usually all you need to work on countering (or re-aiming) is the vertical muzzle climb.

Handguns are another story. The smallest inconsistency in grip or trigger pull can result in shots moving inches left-right, as well as up. However an experienced shooter will actually be able to almost completely reduce vertical muzzle climb with a pistol by simply using a correct grip. The pistol will typically want to return itself to a spot very similar to the spot you began shooting with when using a correct grip.

The system they have in place for replicating muzzle climb when firing fully-automatic is actually fairly realistic, the only thing they could improve is to go out to the range and "feel out" which direction certain automatic SMGs and rifles pull to (either left or right), and then replicate that in-game by weighting the randomness factor for their next shot calculation to be more likely to land on one side or the other.

There's a good video on recoil and bullet mechanics from the team here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-z0gDmojzHM

topeira1980
03-16-2015, 09:45 AM
thanks, cortexian0. nice vid and good post....

however, i still assume that the pre-alpha footage of moving and aiming down sights will remain, and THAT is my issue -
that when aiming down sights and moving looks floaty since there is no bobing and no loss of accuracy in aiming when walking and ADSing, and this means that side-stepping in and out of cover seems to be a lot more beneficial than leaning, which is NOT how it works in real life and it undermines the effort of putting LEAN in the game.

Cortexian
03-16-2015, 04:48 PM
Everything shown of gameplay so far was early pre-alpha footage. Lots of animations were missing. I'm sure we'll see your concerns noted by the time the game is ready to release!

topeira1980
03-16-2015, 06:36 PM
Everything shown of gameplay so far was early pre-alpha footage. Lots of animations were missing. I'm sure we'll see your concerns noted by the time the game is ready to release!

i assumed you'd say that.

crossing fingers that the R6 team does want to make the experience more like SWAT4 was and less like BF, which is a great game but does not prompt slow methodical approach, even with no respawns.

Arch-Enos
03-16-2015, 06:39 PM
thanks, cortexian0. nice vid and good post....

however, i still assume that the pre-alpha footage of moving and aiming down sights will remain, and THAT is my issue -
that when aiming down sights and moving looks floaty since there is no bobing and no loss of accuracy in aiming when walking and ADSing, and this means that side-stepping in and out of cover seems to be a lot more beneficial than leaning, which is NOT how it works in real life and it undermines the effort of putting LEAN in the game.

I completely feel you man! i really hope they dont go mainstream on this,Just add lean, its RainbowSix not COD, these are some really critical issues.

xB0NES
03-21-2015, 10:03 AM
I completely feel you man! i really hope they dont go mainstream on this,Just add lean, its RainbowSix not COD, these are some really critical issues.
I completely agree as well. I think they should also slow the overall character movement and actions, which would make it feel more clunky as a result, but it also adds tension to every action, but they'll never listen to that point b/c people in the console market would hate it.